Idiot, if that were the case they'd have taken all Hamilton's points away last season.
The F1 Thread 2008 Season
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Idiot, if that were the case they'd have taken all Hamilton's points away last season.
I begining to think the same , this bloke is the best british driver since Jackie Stewert. Lewis once again the powers that be are stopping your progress.
Steady on, I don't think its that bad. But it does start to whiff of blatent discontent for Hamilton.
Good one. 
Formula One, abbreviated to F1 is run by a cheating bunch of scumbags who do not deserve to run such a fine sport They might just as well stop any pretence at fair racing and award the championship to ferrari right now.
Someone got onto Wikipedia and is even more pissed of than me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One
Someone got onto Wikipedia and is even more pissed of than me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One
Sadly I agree.
I long for a split where teams and drivers are treated fairly and not forced to pucker up to Italian butt.
I don't think it's racism, just a bit too much influence at the top for Ferrari. It seems every complaint made by them is upheld, while any complaint against them they manage to wriggle out of. I still remember Schumacher taking a 10 second penalty after the end of the race.
Remember Silverstone 1998 when he took his Stop/Go on the last lap so he crossed the line in the pitlane to win. It started more or less right then.
I'm looking forward to hearin Stemmys view on this, he who believes there is no bias shown to Ferrari...
The sad thing is I've not looked at anything after the race, I've just come on here now, and the thing is I'm not suprised in the slightest. This is F1 at its absolute normal
Never mind the fact Raikkonen gave Hamilton absolutely nowhere to go but off the track. Never mind that Hamilton gave the position back, Raikonnen immediately retook the lead. Hamilton retook him at the next corner at the next straight because guess what, the conditions were awful and Hamilton was much faster in the wet, hence he'd eaten up the 5 second difference in the first place
And the penalty is 25 seconds? Where has that come from? Not just 10 seconds, but 25? Its just such an utter farce. Raikkonen actually drove into Hamilton at one point, but thats just forgotten because luckily Hamilton didn't spin and was unharmed. The same race Kovaleinen drives into Webber and guess what happens...
I don't think its anything to do with racism. It bloody well better not be. Its just the same as its been for some time now. One rule for Ferrari, one rule for everyone else, and the FIA trying to rewrite the rules as we go along to engineer a tighter championship
The sad thing is I've not looked at anything after the race, I've just come on here now, and the thing is I'm not suprised in the slightest. This is F1 at its absolute normal
Never mind the fact Raikkonen gave Hamilton absolutely nowhere to go but off the track. Never mind that Hamilton gave the position back, Raikonnen immediately retook the lead. Hamilton retook him at the next corner at the next straight because guess what, the conditions were awful and Hamilton was much faster in the wet, hence he'd eaten up the 5 second difference in the first place
And the penalty is 25 seconds? Where has that come from? Not just 10 seconds, but 25? Its just such an utter farce. Raikkonen actually drove into Hamilton at one point, but thats just forgotten because luckily Hamilton didn't spin and was unharmed. The same race Kovaleinen drives into Webber and guess what happens...
I don't think its anything to do with racism. It bloody well better not be. Its just the same as its been for some time now. One rule for Ferrari, one rule for everyone else, and the FIA trying to rewrite the rules as we go along to engineer a tighter championship
25 seconds is the time a drive-through penalty takes. When you cut a corner in the race and take advantage you get a drive-through. Because this incident happend so late in the race they just add the time it takes to perform a drive-through to the final race time.
Glock a 25 second penalty too for overtaking under yellow.
Apparently just after the race had finished some of Mclaren people went up to Charlie Whiting and asked him what he thought of the racing incident and whether he thought about the stewards investigation. He replyed and said that he could see no wrong. Charlie Whiting of all people said this if he saw nothing wrong then it makes you think doesnt it. Racing against Ferrari is like playing football with one set of goal posts.
He didn't take an advantage, but ok I see the justification. It wouldn't have actually mattered whether it was 10 or 25
Glock incidently was penalised for not observing the yellow flags. Which is dangerous driving and punishable by the FIA. As was Massa last week in the pit lane, but that was oh so conveniently overlooked, even though the same ruling body found a driver guilty in the GP2 race the same weekend of precisely the same offence
I'm not too concerned, I think despite all this nonsense Hamilton will win the Championship. All it does is knock the credibility of Formula 1 yet again
You get a penalty when you take an advantage from cutting a corner and that is what Hamilton did there. He gave back the lead after the corner but got back in the slipstream immedeatly and gained back the place in the next corner. What he should have done is let Raikkonen pass, give him a car length advantage and than attack again.
Still I understand you concerns about the FIA fabricating a tight championship. I have been suspecting them to intervene for quite some time now.
I mean we all know Ecclestone's love for money and a tight championship equals more viewers equals more money.
What advantage he slowed down let he pass if the rules say before the finish line well he had let him pass before the line. If the rule says a whole car length he let him have that length before the next corner.But if he had to let him have a whole car length in front before the start finish line taking in to consideration were this incident happend this was an impossibility.
Im sorry but one incident against a certain team can be a mistake but when it constantly happens its not a mistake anymore. F1 = Ferrari > Greater than the rest.
I think the car length is before the corner and there was plenty of time to do that.
Should he have got out, completed 20 press ups, run around his car 5 times and then started driving again too?! For crying out loud he gave the place back. He got back into the slipstream because by that point he was going much faster than Raikkonen and breaking later. He clearly lost out because before the corner he was up to Raikkonen and on the outside, given nowhere to go he was forced off, and when he returned Raikkonen regained the lead. Since when did losing ground constitute gaining an advantage?!
Hey I'm just telling you what I heard about the rules. He got behind Raikkonen but did not give him enough space. Getting in the slipstream was the advantage Hamilton gained as far as I understand.
Then have a look at the video that was done. He fell behind Kimi , Ron should appeal this one his team has taken enough over the last few seasons but this has taken it to a new level even for the Ferrari FIA allance.
What video?
Mclaren have appealed. We'll see how that goes.
Ron and his team got lucky last year but everyone seems to forget that. But let us not go back there again.
I'm reading the rules right now. Its becoming a bi-weekly event for me
Rule 16.1 states that 'forcing a driver off the track' constitutes an 'incident', which is punishable by one of three methods - drive through, 10 second penalty or a ten place grid drop. Now I'd like to see what constitutes forcing a driver off the track if that isn't precisely what Raikkonen did to Hamilton, which resulted in this whole farce
My brief scan didn't actually reveal anything in the sporting regulations that says anything about corner cutting, I'll take another look after
I think I heard it on Belgian tv. Not quite sure. I had a busy day as I contribute to a dutch Formula 1 site. You can understand that I didn't have the time to check the rules myself with all the events taking place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74TZ...f12/f1-thread-2008-season-175313/index16.html
If that does not work go back to the previous page on this thread and have a look at post 623 by Zidane.
McLaren said they would appeal the decision.
"We have studied the details and put them before the FIA stewards," said a team statement.
"They show that after cutting the chicane Lewis lifted off, he was 6km/h slower than Kimi. After conceding the lead to Kimi, Lewis repositioned his car on the right and beat Kimi on the brakes going into the hairpin."
"We have studied the details and put them before the FIA stewards," said a team statement.
"They show that after cutting the chicane Lewis lifted off, he was 6km/h slower than Kimi. After conceding the lead to Kimi, Lewis repositioned his car on the right and beat Kimi on the brakes going into the hairpin."
Allright thanks for the video.
As far as I can see Hamilton has a higher speed out of the chicane (because he cut it, which is faster than going round it imo) then Mclaren screamed in his radio to let Kimi pass (which is what Ron said after the race) so Hamilton lifted the throttle for a few seconds, let Kimi pass but got under his wing immedeatly and attacked again only 1 milisecond later, something that would have been impossible without cutting the corner, hence an advantage.
This is what I think the stewards have agreed upon.
Looking at the video's, that was one crazy end of the race.
I think the way people are looking at this sport now if the FIA don't over turn this stupid decision , i feel its going to take time for people to accept this sport has nothing more than a Ferrari FI alliance dominated sport which is slowly ruining the sport.
The hillarious thing is, about half a minute after that indident, Raikkonen loses it at a corner and runs off the track. Yet he uses the run off and comes back onto the track with no losed advantage, because Hamilton had to slow to take the corner properly. At the end of that straight, with Raikkonen having gained an advantage, they turn the corner and Raikkonen gains the lead with the Williams interference. He gained far more of an advantage cutting the corner than Hamilton ever did with his. And Raikkonen went off because he couldn't keep it on the road, not like Hamilton who was forced off with nowhere to go
Yeah I thought that was wrong from Raikkonen. But he has 0 points so you can't really punish him with a drive-through added time penalty; and a 10-place penalty on the grid for next race is a bit over the top.
Yes another good point forgot about that - you see like i keep saying a Ferrari FIA alliance is not good for the image of this sport. Any idea when the appeal so be know.
He didn't do anything wrong to be punished for Crazy, but it just serves to highlight the ridiculousness of the Hamilton decision. He gave the place back, and the only reason he retook the lead at the next corner is the same reason he'd just eaten about 3 seconds out of Raikkonen during a quarter of the lap, because he was much faster when the rain came!
I still can't find anything in the regulations, but my understanding and I'm sure most peoples is that you have to give the place back so you haven't taken an unfair advantage. And there's no arguement about that, at one point Hamilton was directly behind Raikkonen as the two of them switched from side to side of the track. Raikkonen breaked much earlier, and Hamilton took the position
There's no point trying to look at and explain it logically anyway. We all know the way the FIA work, we all know how and why these decisions are made, and non of us are suprised to see this kind of thing happen anymore. The race regulators are a sham and a farce, who only serve to damage their own sport
Lewis Hamilton has had his Belgian Grand Prix victory overturned by the stewards, handing the win to title rival Felipe Massa, who finished second on the road.
Hamilton was given a 25-second penalty for cutting the Bus Stop chicane during his wheel-to-wheel battle for the lead with Kimi Raikkonen during the closing laps.
Although the McLaren driver appeared to lift off and was repassed by Raikkonen on the exit of the corner, the stewards ruled that he had gained an advantage by short-cutting the circuit.
"The stewards, having received a report from the race director and having met with the drivers and team managers involved, have...determine a breach of the regulations has been committed by the competitor and impose the penalty referred to," said an FIA statement.
Hamilton was deemed to have "cut the chicane and gained an advantage", thereby breaching Article 30.3(a) of the sporting regulations and Appendix L chapter 4 Article 2 (g) of the International Sporting Code.
With 25 seconds added to his race time, Hamilton has dropped to third in the classification behind BMW Sauber’s Nick Heidfeld.
The decision brings about a six-point swing in Massa's favour in the championship standings, reducing Hamilton's lead from eight to two points.
Raikkonen crashed out of the race on the penultimate lap and is now 19 points behind Hamilton with five rounds remaining.
A couple of interseting points and the ones highlighted in red is when Ferrari got involved.
Hamilton was given a 25-second penalty for cutting the Bus Stop chicane during his wheel-to-wheel battle for the lead with Kimi Raikkonen during the closing laps.
Although the McLaren driver appeared to lift off and was repassed by Raikkonen on the exit of the corner, the stewards ruled that he had gained an advantage by short-cutting the circuit.
"The stewards, having received a report from the race director and having met with the drivers and team managers involved, have...determine a breach of the regulations has been committed by the competitor and impose the penalty referred to," said an FIA statement.
Hamilton was deemed to have "cut the chicane and gained an advantage", thereby breaching Article 30.3(a) of the sporting regulations and Appendix L chapter 4 Article 2 (g) of the International Sporting Code.
With 25 seconds added to his race time, Hamilton has dropped to third in the classification behind BMW Sauber’s Nick Heidfeld.
The decision brings about a six-point swing in Massa's favour in the championship standings, reducing Hamilton's lead from eight to two points.
Raikkonen crashed out of the race on the penultimate lap and is now 19 points behind Hamilton with five rounds remaining.
A couple of interseting points and the ones highlighted in red is when Ferrari got involved.
Looks really dodgy after no penalty was given for what Ferrari did in the pits last time. That could have been really nasty.
Ferrari couldn't have written a better script themselves, that's if they didn't write it anyway.
Ferrari couldn't have written a better script themselves, that's if they didn't write it anyway.
http://www.f1network.net/boards/read/s85.htm?85,9658025
Just popped onto this Ferrari F1 Forum and many of the hardcore supporters are having serious doubts on this decision. Bernie , Max , Ferrari and FIA are ruining this sport. Time to get your house in order its becoming a joke or it already is.
Just popped onto this Ferrari F1 Forum and many of the hardcore supporters are having serious doubts on this decision. Bernie , Max , Ferrari and FIA are ruining this sport. Time to get your house in order its becoming a joke or it already is.
ive seen it over again and again and imo if anything kimi is at fault for cutting hamilton off and swerving.
Nah, no one is at fault for anything. The whole skirmish was fine IMO. Bizarre to hand out a post race drive through to Lewis. On the run up to the chicane he was tucked up behind Kimi looking to outbrake him, and on the run up to La Source he was in exactly the same position. On the face of it, no advantage gained.
They were actually racing each other, let them get on with it I say - it might catch on.
I was hoping Ron would speak his mind.
Doesn't this just sum Ferrari up!
Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali was thrilled with the turn of events, however, saying: "I have often said the race is not over until the official results are published and that was the case today."
With their cosy relationship with the FIA, he's absolutely bloody right too
But what about the point of sport, to witness a contest between two competitors, see them battle it out, and at the end of the contest have an identified winner. Whats the point of having the podium press conference directly after the race with his attitude eh
Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali was thrilled with the turn of events, however, saying: "I have often said the race is not over until the official results are published and that was the case today."
With their cosy relationship with the FIA, he's absolutely bloody right too
But what about the point of sport, to witness a contest between two competitors, see them battle it out, and at the end of the contest have an identified winner. Whats the point of having the podium press conference directly after the race with his attitude eh
I just heard about this. Its disgraceful that Lewis Hamilton was demoted.
I cant believe he got demoted. Smells of ferrari luvin.