We are only going by how the players performed in the Euros. Doesn't matter whatever they did outside of the Euro championships.
The Euro Draft - QF - Team EAP vs Raees
- Thread starter Balu
- Start date
fair enough. Let me change my tactic for you.Chester brainwash v2.1: 2-3-5 analysis and specific impact to this match
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~ From what I know, 4 & 6 do the shuttling between boxes and drop back to wing back's to support defence against oppositions wingers (7 & 11)
~ The full backs 2 & 3 mark the inside forwards #8 & #10 of the opposition.
~As you say, the #5 can be either a sweeper or a DM type role, but not all players do both. See Anto's point above. Billy Wright was a centre half defender, Monti was a Centre half DM and you can't play them interchangeably. The versatility is in the role definition, not the player.
With a player like Zebec it gets confusing as he can play both roles. Balu mentions in the beginning that in such cases, we should only use them in what they actually played in Euros and not what they are capable of. Ex. Lahm can't play DM, Bergomi can't play CB, Breitner can't play midfield etc.
My argument was that In Euros, but what basic match reports we have, Zebec played a DM role and should be used as such. Since we do not have any examples of him playing a pure CB type role or even having any noteworthy defensive contribution...a la The France example and his offensive contribution, it is to be taken that he did not play a CB type role and so should not be counted for this draft.
So going by the spirit of this draft, we consider him a offensive player. I keep pressing this as an offensive player will be a major liability there for Raees and make it unstable. It is a game breaker for him.
Correct. It's not an incontestably, incontrovertibly, unquestionably hot-as-pussy-juice sort of defence. No. But neither – for the love of McGrath – is yours. You're sporting Mad Sol and Larry White – he's sporting Beckenbauer and Kohler. There's a difference there to begin with – on this level and, yes, given the theme/premise too.
What's the longest draft game thread so far? I think this is going to be a record.
I can predict page 20 content already:
EAP: what's Zebec's credentials? How can we judge him, he hasn't even played in defence
Raees: my grandmother is faster than Blanc, Henry will tore him to shreds
coolredwine:
antohan: Masopust..?
I can predict page 20 content already:
EAP: what's Zebec's credentials? How can we judge him, he hasn't even played in defence
Raees: my grandmother is faster than Blanc, Henry will tore him to shreds
coolredwine:
antohan: Masopust..?
I did say you get some leeway to fit players who played in different tactical systems into your teams, e.g. Libero can play DM, defensive right back can play right centerback in a back five. Things like that are entirely possible.
The spirit of the draft thing was aimed at shoehorning big shiny names into teams by playing them totally out of position. The idea was to avoid a Maldini at rightback drama like we had in the World Cup draft.
What's the longest draft game thread so far? I think this is going to be a record.
I can predict page 20 content already:
EAP: what's Zebec's credentials? How can we judge him, he hasn't even played in defence
Raees: my grandmother is faster than Blanc, Henry will tore him to shreds
coolredwine:
antohan: Masopust..?
It is dead heat as well for past few hours.. one vote for Edgar, one vote for Raees
Err, in fairness, if you include Suárez you should include at least one if not both of Gullit and Puskas.
What's the longest draft game thread so far? I think this is going to be a record.
I can predict page 20 content already:
EAP: what's Zebec's credentials? How can we judge him, he hasn't even played in defence
Raees: my grandmother is faster than Blanc, Henry will tore him to shreds
coolredwine:
antohan: Masopust..?
then we could include Beckenbauer too no? As sweeper he'd be going into midfield? Henry drifting into left midfield?
What's the longest draft game thread so far? I think this is going to be a record.
I can predict page 20 content already:
EAP: what's Zebec's credentials? How can we judge him, he hasn't even played in defence
Raees: my grandmother is faster than Blanc, Henry will tore him to shreds
coolredwine:
antohan: Masopust..?
No, that was a few pages ago. I'm now on passive-aggressive mode. Page 12 will probably have contempt, page 16 all out aggression and by 20 I will be banned.
Not Henry, but definitely Beckenbauer, clearly, except that you said he would keep swapping with Rijkaard.
What I missed was one player playing containing Gullit and then contributing to a 5-4 comeback. Only game presented as example was France and there is no correlation to roles played here.
Hah! But you can't do that – you clearly can't, based on the evidence.
He's not played in a position which is wildly different from the one he held in the Euros * no matter how you look at it – is he? You consider him an offensive player after the whole song and dance about the No 5 business?
That's clearly bollocks, old trickster.
* See Balu's comment about the spirit of the draft above.
I'd say Thuram did a damn fantastic job defensively while scoring both goals in the WC semifinal in 1998. Why can't a player do his regurlar job brilliantly and have an additional impact doing something else in one game?
/edit:
is that fecking game available somewhere on the internet? I really really want to watch it now.
Do you have any fact or article or anything at all to show he did something noteworthy in defense in Euros? Going by France match, he was a defensive liability and should be considered as such in this match.
I really find it strange that a world class CB has no defensive mention for a whole tournament. It's Baresi all over again. Complete player, can play, highly capable...but didn't do shit in Euros. It's the manager who has to do the selling, not pick anyone and expect opposition to poke holes.
See, facts. This is what I want. Not hypothesis and theories..what I'm getting now.
Moving on...
Taking all by primes.
Prime Gullit will get better of prime Zebec.
Prime Puskas will get better of prime Kohler.
Prime Beckenbauer is a game changer, but flanked by the need to support both his CB's, his overall influence on the game will be vastly reduced. I expect Kluivert to throw a spanner in his defence.
Masopust will be a game changer. As Raees explains Rijkaard will have to keep eye out for a drifting Gullit from behind and running Masopust ahead. A bit too much even for him.
Taking all by primes.
Prime Gullit will get better of prime Zebec.
Prime Puskas will get better of prime Kohler.
Prime Beckenbauer is a game changer, but flanked by the need to support both his CB's, his overall influence on the game will be vastly reduced. I expect Kluivert to throw a spanner in his defence.
Masopust will be a game changer. As Raees explains Rijkaard will have to keep eye out for a drifting Gullit from behind and running Masopust ahead. A bit too much even for him.
My German may be crap but my French is still good enough
You may as well just watch the second half, starts with such a bang it gets you on your toes straight away. Well, maybe not now, it did in real-time.
Feckin' @Joga Bonito, for once skipping the obligatory wall of text.
It is a great channel with all those ballon d'Or videos and comprehensive footage of some legends
. Well worth the watch.how dugarry got in those french sides is a wonder?? Has to be just to keep Zidane happy lol
Wait, it actually is available? Has anyone watched it? Why are we discussing hypothetical roles and positions and stuff like that for hours and hours, when the full evidence is available?
It is a great channel with all those ballon d'Or videos and comprehensive footage of some legends
No idea what you are talking about, I just typed "France croatie demi-finale 1998" on Google videos.
The guy on http://www.soccervideos.eu/ has it and he says that he will provide every game that he has upon request - not sure how it works though. I haven't tried it yet, but it sounds promising.
if you're talking about 1998 then I'm stupid
this thread is too fast for meedit: only 5 minutes - so, I guess, some kind of highlights? If you will contact him, let us now
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I don't think they had better strikers tbh, certainly not ones that suited their playing style.
The guy on http://www.soccervideos.eu/ has it and he says that he will provide every game that he has upon request - not sure how it works though. I haven't tried it yet, but it sounds promising.
if you're talking about 1998 then I'm stupid
Or you could ask the guy who edited wiki to provide his remastered copy with Fontaine and Kopa scoring. @Balu
He was pretty average, all things said and done. Did the job, filled the slot – that sort of thing. And you need 'em, of course.
But I've always thought of him in comparison with the '84 side, and I can't really find a counterpart for him. He's too bloody dull. Something similar can be directed at...I'm almost tempted to say several members of that French WC winning team.
It worked, though – it was a genuinely great team, no questions asked. But – yes – dull in some departments.
Well obviously Blanc isn't quite as good as Baresi but firstly nobody had said that and two this is based on European Championship performances and in that respect he absolutely is up there with the very best in the competition.
Also I'm really not sure what you've tried to say there by citing his opponents? All I've taken from that is that Blanc didn't face a striker like Henry at the Euro's.. So how does that mean he's going to be exposed here?
Surely if you're going to claim that Blanc will be terrorised by Henry then the onus is on you to prove that? Because you haven't proved it at all.
Blanc in general was an exceptional defender and he was exceptional in the Euros. You're claiming that it's all apparently going to fall to pieces just because he's facing Thierry Henry despite providing no proof at all to support that position.
I'm busy. And drunk. Drunk n' busy – you know, never a good combo. So, there's no way I will here and now dive into my archives to look for said confirmation.
And it may very well be there is no such confirmation. You want confirmation that a player performed well as a defender (as a pure defender, one might take it) in a particular match – beyond the recorded testimony that he played well as such in said match. That's very specific information, one might say.
He had a great game, they say – that's what we know. They conceded a ton of goals – but won. That wasn't unheard of at the time – nor does it prove anything either way. The implication – that they conceded because he, in particular, didn't defend well – is obviously not valid.
I'll complete your sentence: Deschamps was the footballing equivalent of watching paint dry, he just got his hands on any form of creative spark on the pitch and choked it to death. I've said it before in other drafts: he turned games into a snoozefest, but was incredibly effective at it. He managed the tempo of a game at will, which unfortunately usually meant bringing it to a standstill. I probably exaggerate, he had a great eye for a pass, but he was a boring fart that made football less beautiful.
Had it not been for Zidane finding another gear, that's what France would have served up with that generation. The main reason they failed so spectacularly in 2002 was that Zidane was injured and they reverted to their old boring self but they were no longer that good at it, so ended up neither here nor there.
Could Masopust conjure magic like Zidane did? :winkwinknudgenudgeyoumotherfeckers:
Suicide mode enabled. Wait for the substitution...
It is still close enough that it can turn
And anything he does can't be very good.
Thinking of this...
My advantage is attack and this adds a man to it.
Supporting facts :
+ lack of attacking threat apart from two strikers. 3 man defense is sufficient.
+ wingers negate his fullback threat and makes a lethal counter.
+ Masopust and Deschamps are hard working DM's. Masopust will do his slalom while Deschamps can hold fort.
My advantage is attack and this adds a man to it.
Supporting facts :
+ lack of attacking threat apart from two strikers. 3 man defense is sufficient.
+ wingers negate his fullback threat and makes a lethal counter.
+ Masopust and Deschamps are hard working DM's. Masopust will do his slalom while Deschamps can hold fort.
Three are Dutch
If your advantage is attack why do you need another man there?
This is perfect to exploit the gaps in his team.
+ Rijkaard is caught between Sneijder and Masopust. Lerby has Schweini to handle.
+ Between Deschamps and Masopust, Suarez will not have any impact.
+ wing back support is riskier as I have 2 wingers to exploit space behind.
+ Rijkaard is caught between Sneijder and Masopust. Lerby has Schweini to handle.
+ Between Deschamps and Masopust, Suarez will not have any impact.
+ wing back support is riskier as I have 2 wingers to exploit space behind.