The Euro Draft - QF - Team EAP vs Raees

Judged on the Euro performances, who will win the match?

  • Total voters
    59
  • Poll closed .
Raees said:
I won't say anything about Henry any more, but Anto if Blanc is this legendary defender who is = to Kohler and the best in the draft, explain his club career to me? surely he'd have been at Juve, or a top serie A club keeping the likes of Batistuta, Ronaldo quiet.. all I keep hearing is he's dealt with loads of pacey livewire legendary strikers, name me some? I'm curious to learn more about his career.

He did no such thing as far as I can tell unless of course you provide me with evidence to the contrary in which case I will say fair enough and maybe even sign Blanc the next round if I got through.
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You are wrong there, you are the one who should provide evidence he can't. By all means he could, he was one of the best defenders around for half a decade or so, but I'm not about to start digging into every single game he ever played trying to find who were the strikers on the other team. It's a complete and utter waste of time, anyone who watched him would know he was excellent and dealt with dangerous players of all sorts efficiently.

It's funny you take the piss out of a player and assume he is poor because he kept switching clubs. Something similar could be said about your striker.

For the record, I distinctly remember United fans pining for Blanc for years, before Stam, then seeing him as an ideal partner for Stam, then moaning we had waited too long to get him and now we had no Stam and a glacial Blanc.:annoyed:
 
@Raees, I never said only winners should be picked. You were questioning Blanc based on his club's performance, while this draft is supposed to be focused on Euro competition. Of course you could argue what happened if Blanc faced a more worthy opponent. On the other hand, been a Euro winner doesn't mean the player is immune to criticism, but all discussion should be focused on Euro. If you want to find Blanc's weakness, it is better to look for it in his performance during the competition
 
green_smiley said:
@Raeas, I never said only winners should be picked. You were questioning Blanc based on his club's performance, while this draft is supposed to be focused on Euro competition. Of course you could argue what happened if Blanc faced a more worthy opponent. On the other hand, been a Euro winner doesn't mean the player is immune to criticism, but all discussion should be focused on Euro. If you want to find Blanc's weakness, it is better to look for it in his performance during the competition
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To be fair mate, I used only his Euro's career in my earlier post on the lack of quality opponents he had faced in Euros.. I am comparing two proven Euros performers against each other and using his larger body of work to support my claim that he has a tactical weakness which I haven't seen proof of that he has resolved in a Euro context. I asked for more knowledge on him and was willing to change my stance on him any time.. I wouldn't ignore evidence that is presented to me and continue arguing something which is blatantly wrong. Enough Blanc debate though, lets move on to debating something else in this match up.
 
Raees said:
Blanc the guy who failed at numerous big clubs throughout his career and has never really had to man mark a great striker at his peak in the mould of a Fat Ronaldo/Marco Van Basten and successfully keep them quiet is now the best defender in the draft ahead of the likes of Beckenbauer, Kohler? I have heard it all now.

Kohler starred at Juve, he starred at Dortmund and he starred for his national team. He has marked some of the best strikers in the game and done a fantastic job, how does Blanc even come close to his credentials. The rest of your points are fair enough but this Blanc point is just not on.. none of you have given me an example of where he has man marked a pace merchant and come out on top yet we're to believe he would succeed against Henry where Nesta and Cannavaro combined failed.

Blanc flopped at Napoli, Barcelona, Manchester United.
He played for a ridiculously strong French side in 2000 and as I have proven he didn't really face anyone who could exploit his weaknesses at international level whereas he was constantly found out at club level whenever he moved to a big club.
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Please tell me how exactly is Blanc's club form important in an Euro draft? By your own list you posted last night, he was able to stop whatever was thrown in front of him. If that's not good enough, then I have no idea what exactly are you searching in a draft game.
 
Wow, what happened here?

And Blanc criticism is utter b-s, @Raees, it's even worse than Zebec witch-hunt that EAP started earlier (at least it had some basis to it). He is absolutely fantastic and undoubtedly one of the top draft picks in his position. And it's not like Henry is directly against him - he is mainly facing Durkovic and Blanc is covering for him, which he is perfect for. Early in the game there was Campbell there and it was a disaster waiting to happen, now it's very good for EAP, actually.
 
Basically, EAP has arguably
  • the best defender on the pitch (yes, on a Euro basis that's what Blanc is),
  • the best midfielder on the pitch by a long country mile in Masopust, and no, Rijkaard '02 can't handle him
  • both man for man and as a unit the best forward trio, including two Euro GOATs in Puskas and Gullit
At the other end we have a very poor Amoros impersonation, a Zebec tasked with stopping Gullit despite unproven Euro defensive credentials, a pair of midfielders who can really help with the defence but will get run over quantitatively and qualitatively despite their formidable efforts, and a pair of forwards that I can't see troubling the defence they face too much. The only clear advantage is in the goalkeeping department. And yet it still looks pretty solid, functional and competitive overall.

Raees' most dangerous flank is his left, that's the only credible route to goal with Facchetti and Henry. Blanc being on that side was critical, and Durkovic will get good support from Schweinsteiger. It's a goal at most, the key issue with the Blanc/Campbell swap was how quickly they could get that goal because, by all means, if they scored first then you are up shit creek having to pour forward because everything is there for a great counterattacking side.

EAPs right flank is fine with Durkovic overlapping, Schweinsteiger comfortable on the flank and Gullit also comfortable from wide areas. Considering the defensive discipline required, I don't think he will persist much there though. On the left flank he has a motorway to goal with Breitner beasting Amoros, Masopust will beat Rijkaard with some regularity, and Kohler will often have to come out covering... at the expense of leaving Puskas unattended? Beckenabuer can come to his rescue but then who has Kluivert? It's a much more worrying proposition than the one at the other end and we haven't even got into just how much we can expect from Gullit and Puskas.

I've been inclined to think it's a 2-1 or 3-1 all day, except for that recurring concern over Raees/Gio scoring first because that would be huge. With the result as it is, no need to be fence-sitting though.
 
harms said:
Wow, what happened here?

And Blanc criticism is utter b-s, @Raees, it's even worse than Zebec witch-hunt that EAP started earlier (at least it had some basis to it). He is absolutely fantastic and undoubtedly one of the top draft picks in his position.
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Harms I haven't criticised him though, I have asked for evidence in relation to a tactical point I am trying to make re: Henry is the sort of player he'd struggle with.. obviously if you're comparing two players who have done well at Euros it is going to be a leap of the imagination in some respect. I don't think I have gone about it in an aggressive manner, I even asked some of the older guys on here politely for more information because I genuinely wanted to know more about him at his peak.
 
antohan said:
Basically, EAP has arguably
  • the best defender on the pitch (yes, on a Euro basis that's what Blanc is),
  • the best midfielder on the pitch by a long country mile in Masopust, and no, Rijkaard '02 can't handle him
  • both man for man and as a unit the best forward trio, including two Euro GOATs in Puskas and Gullit
At the other end we have a very poor Amoros impersonation, a Zebec tasked with stopping Gullit despite unproven Euro defensive credentials, a pair of midfielders who can really help with the defence but will get run over quantitatively and qualitatively despite their formidable efforts, and a pair of forwards that I can't see troubling the defence they face too much. The only clear advantage is in the goalkeeping department. And yet it still looks pretty solid, functional and competitive overall.

Raees' most dangerous flank is his left, that's the only credible route to goal with Facchetti and Henry. Blanc being on that side was critical, and Durkovic will get good support from Schweinsteiger. It's a goal at most, the key issue with the Blanc/Campbell swap was how quickly they could get that goal because, by all means, if they scored first then you are up shit creek having to pour forward because everything is there for a great counterattacking side.

EAPs right flank is fine with Durkovic overlapping, Schweinsteiger comfortable on the flank and Gullit also comfortable from wide areas. Considering the defensive discipline required, I don't think he will persist much there though. On the left flank he has a motorway to goal with Breitner beasting Amoros, Masopust will beat Rijkaard with some regularity, and Kohler will often have to come out covering... at the expense of leaving Puskas unattended? Beckenabuer can come to his rescue but then who has Kluivert? It's a much more worrying proposition than the one at the other end and we haven't even got into just how much we can expect from Gullit and Puskas.

I've been inclined to think it's a 2-1 or 3-1 all day, except for that recurring concern over Raees/Gio scoring first because that would be huge. With the result as it is, no need to be fence-sitting though.
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Exactly. They keep gushing over how Henry will run like a coyote and won't give a chance to anyone on the pitch, before not knowing that they have a bottler as a striker who is playing a knockout match. All things considered, Zlatan is still a bottler who has failed to deliver on the biggest stages of them all. I have absolutely no idea how people are taking that into consideration while ignoring the trio of Puskas-Kluivert-Gullit supported by Masopust and Schweinstiger.
 
Can't help but feel for team EAP here. Both manager teams have put forth some compelling arguments (and some hyperbolic nonsense) but I'm struggling to see how there's a 13 vote lead. And that's after I preferred Raees/Gio's team at first glance. Reading up, and considering Euro form, don't quite understand it at all.
 
Raees said:
Harms I haven't criticised him though, I have asked for evidence in relation to a tactical point I am trying to make re: Henry is the sort of player he'd struggle with.. obviously if you're comparing two players who have done well at Euros it is going to be a leap of the imagination in some respect. I don't think I have gone about it in an aggressive manner, I even asked some of the older guys on here politely for more information because I genuinely wanted to know more about him at his peak.
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Did you provide any evidence of Zebec playing as a CB and doing well? All you lot have said is that he is the greatest of them all, he is the strongest, he is the meanest, he is hulk hogan and superman rolled into one. Until unless you can provide evidence about your players, don't ask us for one.
 
Skizzo said:
Can't help but feel for team EAP here. Both manager teams have put forth some compelling arguments (and some hyperbolic nonsense) but I'm struggling to see how there's a 13 vote lead. And that's after I preferred Raees/Gio's team at first glance. Reading up, and considering Euro form, don't quite understand it at all.
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Rigged it, obviously.
 
antohan said:
Basically, EAP has arguably
  • the best defender on the pitch (yes, on a Euro basis that's what Blanc is),
  • the best midfielder on the pitch by a long country mile in Masopust, and no, Rijkaard '02 can't handle him
  • both man for man and as a unit the best forward trio, including two Euro GOATs in Puskas and Gullit
At the other end we have a very poor Amoros impersonation, a Zebec tasked with stopping Gullit despite unproven Euro defensive credentials, a pair of midfielders who can really help with the defence but will get run over quantitatively and qualitatively despite their formidable efforts, and a pair of forwards that I can't see troubling the defence they face too much. The only clear advantage is in the goalkeeping department. And yet it still looks pretty solid, functional and competitive overall.

Raees' most dangerous flank is his left, that's the only credible route to goal with Facchetti and Henry. Blanc being on that side was critical, and Durkovic will get good support from Schweinsteiger. It's a goal at most, the key issue with the Blanc/Campbell swap was how quickly they could get that goal because, by all means, if they scored first then you are up shit creek having to pour forward because everything is there for a great counterattacking side.

EAPs right flank is fine with Durkovic overlapping, Schweinsteiger comfortable on the flank and Gullit also comfortable from wide areas. Considering the defensive discipline required, I don't think he will persist much there though. On the left flank he has a motorway to goal with Breitner beasting Amoros, Masopust will beat Rijkaard with some regularity, and Kohler will often have to come out covering... at the expense of leaving Puskas unattended? Beckenabuer can come to his rescue but then who has Kluivert? It's a much more worrying proposition than the one at the other end and we haven't even got into just how much we can expect from Gullit and Puskas.

I've been inclined to think it's a 2-1 or 3-1 all day, except for that recurring concern over Raees/Gio scoring first because that would be huge. With the result as it is, no need to be fence-sitting though.
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Masopust is better than Luisito Suarez? no chance I have seen Masopust play and he is not better than Luisito. Most complete centre mid in this match up? yes of course I will give you that but Rijkaard is a complete centre mid too and he is not going to struggle with Masopust, that is a downright lie.

Blanc is not better than Beckenbauer and Kohler, come off it.. ridiculous overhyping of him.

Their attack is far superior to mine, not going to doubt that all but I have the defence to contain that illustrious trio.
 
Raees said:
Harms I haven't criticised him though, I have asked for evidence in relation to a tactical point I am trying to make re: Henry is the sort of player he'd struggle with.. obviously if you're comparing two players who have done well at Euros it is going to be a leap of the imagination in some respect. I don't think I have gone about it in an aggressive manner, I even asked some of the older guys on here politely for more information because I genuinely wanted to know more about him at his peak.
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You said it was suicidal and all the way from the OP at the very beginnign you have been pushing the "glacial Blanc" agenda knowing full well you are leveraging his OAP years with us there.

He absolutely did not struggle with any particular kind of forward in his prime, he had decent pace and a superb reading of the game. He was originally an attacking rightback and very much followed Bossis' career trajectory.

You are the one who has to provide evidence to the contrary because everyone on here to a man has told you you are talking complete bollocks. Wake up, smell the coffee.
 
coolredwine said:
I am wondering how no one was willing to vote last evening, but suddenly everyone had an epiphany during the night.
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I don't know about the timing, but this thread is constantly active and full of drama, so it will grab people's attention

I've never really taken scan voters' votes seriously because there is high possibility that they just vote based on personal's preference and bias against certain players. I thought the coefficient factor from last draft is a great idea, so much so that I leveraged from it when I hosted my draft in newbies. Too bad Balu is lazy to count. And I welcome Annah's idea of asking voters to justify their vote before it is considered valid. This give much work for the draft moderator, but it is necessary to achieve a fairer draft

Like it or not, there are so many scan voters voted in Raees' favour, so fair play to him
 


So this guy would have Rijkaard on toast.. the athletic modern day complete midfielder that is Rijkaard? come off it.
 
Raees said:
Masopust is better than Luisito Suarez? no chance I have seen Masopust play and he is not better than Luisito. Most complete centre mid in this match up? yes of course I will give you that but Rijkaard is a complete centre mid too and he is not going to struggle with Masopust, that is a downright lie.
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It's an opinion, you can hardly lie when stating an opinion, let alone one that isn't outlandish.

I counted Suarez in the attacking trio and was largely looking at the centre mids. I actually did that so I didn't have to say your frontline was complete horseshit relative to EAPs.

Masopust would be the best performing midfielder in this game though. Euro 92 Rijkaard (not godly Rijkaard) can't live with him, I expect Deschamps to have a far better game against Suárez than Rijkaard against Masopust with Breitner on his left, Gullit dropping to his right and Puskas ahead. With all the different things Rijkaard is required to help out with he will end up running around like a headless chicken and Masopust will exploit that. Deschamps? He has one simple clear-cut job.

Blanc is not better than Beckenbauer and Kohler, come off it.. ridiculous overhyping of him.
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He isn't better than Kohler outside the Euros, but he is within them. He isn't a better footballer than Beckenbauer in or outside the Euros, but a better pure defender IMO. It's marginal, as I said the very first time I mentioned this, but given your persistence on talking bollocks I've dropped the marginally for emphasis.

Their attack is far superior to mine, not going to doubt that all but I have the defence to contain that illustrious trio.
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Four out of five of your defenders are best utilised helping turn defence into attack. Will work wonders to transition to counters, but you seem to rate them as the sum of their reputations, which is higher than the sum of their parts because much of their reputation is built on being for their teams a unique source of something you have no scarcity of. I can easily think of better/more suited defences in this context even utilising lesser names.
 
Raees said:


So this guy would have Rijkaard on toast.. the athletic modern day complete midfielder that is Rijkaard? come off it.
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Yes, he would in this company. If you looked at it objectively you would realise much of the problem he has there is people around him are hiding and not making the right calls, leaving him with sweet feck all to do. Reminds me a bit of Spain-France in 2006, back in the days when half the Spanish team would go into hiding and position themselves so as NOT to be given the ball/responsibility when the occasion got the better of them.

Of course, if you want to make it about pitches, balls, physical conditioning, etc. that argument has been done to death and the conclusion every time has been that you have to factor that out. Still, I'd agree it would be fun to watch Henry trying to play at his best with one of them heavy and hard leather balls.
 
Fair enough Anto. Heading to bed now will let Gio take over when he wakes up the lazy feck, I want to see his thoughts on your criticisms
 
:lol::lol:

Voter-fraud.jpg
 
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