The Euro Draft - QF - Team EAP vs Raees

[Skizzo]

Thats unfair I've been pretty much arguing with 5 of you guys at the same time throughout? So how have I not campaigned?

I think he meant you haven't campaigned in the way he thought I meant it. It seems like he took me saying you "campaigned" as you were out asking for votes in PM's.

I personally think you've done a ridiculously good job replying to 5 different people, and although I wouldn't always agree with some of the things you said...think you did well not to put your fist through the computer

 

[coolredwine]

...and how many people would have read the campaign speech?

 

[Raees]

I think he meant you haven't campaigned in the way he thought I meant it. It seems like he took me saying you "campaigned" as you were out asking for votes in PM's.

I personally think you've done a ridiculously good job replying to 5 different people, and although I wouldn't always agree with some of the things you said...think you did well not to put your fist through the computer

Its been tough I won't lie.

 

[Skizzo]

Its been tough I won't lie.

Antohan - 66
EAP - 62
MJJ - 25
CRW - 24

Then you and Gio with 53 and 20.

I'm disappointed you fell short of the 20 page thread

 

[berbasloth4]

what you mean @green_smiley

 

[antohan]

Antohan - 66
EAP - 62
MJJ - 25
CRW - 24

Then you and Gio with 53 and 20.

I'm disappointed you fell short of the 20 page thread

Is this another "agenda" argument from you? I always post a lot, and I was appreciative and critical of both teams, not my fault Raees persists with his dissing of Laurent Blanc.

 

[Skizzo]

Is this another "agenda" argument from you? I always post a lot, and I was appreciative and critical of both teams, not my fault Raees persists with his dissing of Laurent Blanc.

You really are a cranky fecker at times.

No anto, no agenda post

you're at 67 now

 

[Raees]

Is this another "agenda" argument from you? I always post a lot, and I was appreciative and critical of both teams, not my fault Raees persists with his dissing of Laurent Blanc.

I appreciated your posts like always mate, objective in my opinion

 

[Gio]

Is this another "agenda" argument from you? I always post a lot, and I was appreciative and critical of both teams, not my fault Raees persists with his dissing of Laurent Blanc.

Sure

 

[green_smiley]

Raees did. I asked him if he is allowed to do that and he said yes it is fine.

Edit: Yes it's fine since he didn't force me to vote for EAP.

I would be surprised if he did

 

[berbasloth4]

I think I may sign back up for those anger management classes before I take part in a draft up here..

 

[The Stain]

A lot of chances will be created down the left, from both sides. I just feel Raees tactical switch has countered at a lot of the threats EAP has thrown at him. Thought it would be a closer fight but there you go. Two great sides that probably deserved to meet at a latter stage.

 

[Balu]

Are members who are contesting allowed to send out pm's asking to vote?

Raees did. I asked him if he is allowed to do that and he said yes it is fine.

Edit: Yes it's fine since he didn't force me to vote for EAP.

It's not really forbidden, it's just in incredibly poor taste and basically cheating. Funnily, @MJJ (one of his opponents here) did the same thing in his miraculous comeback win against me in one of the auction drafts. At least, that's what 2 people told me who received PMs from him back then. That was the thread back then and it overall had significantly more votes than all the other matches during the draft, just like it's the case here:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/transfer-muppet-fantasy-qf-balu-vs-mjj.389249/page-4
Back then, I didn't really care and chose to ignore it. Winning doesn't matter all that much to me.

Obviously if one manager sends PMs out, he'll send it to users he knows and the chances of it helping him win are crazy high. Barely anyone of those people makes a fair decision, because they start looking in this thread with a clear preference to @Raees who sent the PM. It doesn't matter if he writes they can choose freely and the result here clearly shows it, as did it back when MJJ did it against me.

I don't mind giving Raees the benefit of the doubt and assume that the crazy drama and intense discussion in this match got the better of him and he made a mistake. I'd suggest that Raees gives us (or only me) a list of all the users he wrote to and we take all of them out of the result, no matter who they voted for, and then see what result we get. It's the only way to turn this back into something close to a fair game. If he doesn't want to, I'll let him go through as a winner. But every manager really should think about, if it's worth to turn the matches into a fecking joke. In the end we all spend a shitload of time for these drafts and we should at least try to let the voting play out fairly.

 

[MJJ]

It's not really forbidden, it's just in incredibly poor taste and basically cheating. Funnily, @MJJ (one of his opponents here) did the same thing in his miraculous comeback win against me in one of the auction drafts. At least, that's what 2 people told me who received PMs from him back then. That was the thread back then and it overall had significantly more votes than all the other matches during the draft, just like it's the case here:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/transfer-muppet-fantasy-qf-balu-vs-mjj.389249/page-4
Back then, I didn't really care and chose to ignore it. Winning doesn't matter all that much to me.

Obviously if one manager sends PMs out, he'll send it to users he knows and the chances of it helping him win are crazy high. Barely anyone of those people makes a fair decision, because they start looking in this thread with a clear preference to @Raees who sent the PM. It doesn't matter if he'e writes they can choose freely and the result here clearly shows it, as did it back when MJJ did it against me.

I don't mind giving Raees the benefit of the doubt and assume that the crazy drama and intense discussion in this match got the better of him and he made a mistake. I'd suggest that Raees gives us (or only me) a list of all the users he wrote to and we take all of them out of the result, no matter who they voted for, and then see what result we get. It's the only way to turn this back into something close to a fair game. If he doesn't want to, I'll let him go through as a winner. But every manager really should think about, if it's worth to turn the matches into a fecking joke. In the end we all spend a shitload of time for these drafts and we should at least try to let the voting play out fairly.

I sent it out to random people though(those who had posted the last), not those I know(not sure what method raees employed). Hence some of them voting for you and some for me, which is shown by the winning margin. Not like this scenario where it was 18-2.

 

[Raees]

It's not really forbidden, it's just in incredibly poor taste and basically cheating. Funnily, @MJJ (one of his opponents here) did the same thing in his miraculous comeback win against me in one of the auction drafts. At least, that's what 2 people told me who received PMs from him back then. That was the thread back then and it overall had significantly more votes than all the other matches during the draft, just like it's the case here:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/transfer-muppet-fantasy-qf-balu-vs-mjj.389249/page-4
Back then, I didn't really care and chose to ignore it. Winning doesn't matter all that much to me.

Obviously if one manager sends PMs out, he'll send it to users he knows and the chances of it helping him win are crazy high. Barely anyone of those people makes a fair decision, because they start looking in this thread with a clear preference to @Raees who sent the PM. It doesn't matter if he writes they can choose freely and the result here clearly shows it, as did it back when MJJ did it against me.

I don't mind giving Raees the benefit of the doubt and assume that the crazy drama and intense discussion in this match got the better of him and he made a mistake. I'd suggest that Raees gives us (or only me) a list of all the users he wrote to and we take all of them out of the result, no matter who they voted for, and then see what result we get. It's the only way to turn this back into something close to a fair game. If he doesn't want to, I'll let him go through as a winner. But every manager really should think about, if it's worth to turn the matches into a fecking joke. In the end we all spend a shitload of time for these drafts and we should at least try to let the voting play out fairly.

To be fair Balu, outside of you drafters I don't know anyone in that sort of way.. ask WitchKing, I have never spoken to him ever. I just tried to draw in some randomers to the game and made it clear they are free to vote for whomever. They have fought dirty all game and tbh I think my strategy was above board.. none of the people I pm'd I liaise with in any shape or form, otherwise I would be winning drafts left right and centre which is clearly not the case.

I just send the link to the draft to a few guys who were online, saw some Swedes and thought it was worth a shot.

 

[berbasloth4]

To be honest guys I think that is kind of a dirty tactic..

I have changed my vote due to it.. Doesn't make too much of a difference..

 

[Balu]

I sent it out to random people though(those who had posted the last), not those I know(not sure what method raees employed). Hence some of them voting for you and some for me, which is shown by the winning margin. Not like this scenario where it was 18-2.

What happened back then:

What the feck. 17:12 to 17:20 less than 2 hours without a single comment within less than 2 hours.

Maybe you didn't send it to as many as Raees did, but you would never have won it. I late got a few votes from managers like Gio, which made it close. But I got barely any votes from the people you sent messages to. Fair enough, if they were random, but the pattern is plain obvious.

 

[Balu]

To be fair Balu, outside of you drafters I don't know anyone in that sort of way.. ask WitchKing, I have never spoken to him ever. I just tried to draw in some randomers to the game and made it clear they are free to vote for whomever. They have fought dirty all game and tbh I think my strategy was above board.. none of the people I pm'd I liaise with in any shape or form, otherwise I would be winning drafts left right and centre which is clearly not the case.

I just send the link to the draft to a few guys who were online, saw some Swedes and thought it was worth a shot.

Fair enough, but do you really believe they voted fairly instead of just doing you a favour because you were the one who asked them? Look at the fecking result, it's a joke now.

 

[MJJ]

What happened back then:

Maybe you didn't send it to as many Raees did, but you would never have won it. I late got a few votes from managers like Gio, which made it close. But I got barely any votes from the people you messages to. Fair enough, if they were random, but the pattern is plain obvious.

I think that was due to me having loads of united players in that side hence getting more scan votes. THe match finished 21-20 so out of the people I asked, 3 voted for you and 9 for me. Given the relative players, I thought that was fair. Anyway, anto had a chat regarding this issue with me and I stopped doing it. He told me just to tag players in the gamethread which I think is more fair as well.

Edit- Also, you should have pmed me back then. If you had let me know that it didnt seem fair to you, I would have dropped out. As mentioned before, I figured I got more votes due to the united bias(75%/25%) and no other reason.

 

[Raees]

Fair enough, but do you really believe they voted fairly instead of just doing you a favour because you were the one who asked them? Look at the fecking result, it's a joke now.

Thats the thing Balu I deliberately PM'd guys who are either swedish or Arsenal fans. They had their own bias of course but it was a strategy on my part.

Also I must admit the manner in which EAP pm'd us before the game asking about Zebec and his teams behaviour throughout the game played a part in me employing such a strategy. I have never been in a nasty game in all my draft encounters - this was my first and hopefully last.. I'd rather lose 18-0 to Joga Bonito but have a decent footballing discussion.

 

[Balu]

I think that was due to me having loads of united players in that side hence getting more scan votes. THe match finished 21-20 so out of the people I asked, 3 voted for you and 9 for me. Given the relative players, I thought that was fair. Anyway, anto had a chat regarding this issue with me and I stopped doing it. He told me just to tag players in the gamethread which I think is more fair as well.

Interesting, anto was one of two guys I asked if I should make it public or not. But I didn't care that much and thought if you want to go through so badly, you'll deserve it.

 

[MJJ]

Interesting, anto was one of two guys I asked if I should make it public or not. But I didn't care that much and thought if you want to go through so badly, you'll deserve it.

Nah, I wasnt that bothered about it since I felt your side was v.good as well and wanted you to win if I didnt after our long negotiations over nedved. I just wasnt sure how to get the scan voters to view the thread( united bias) so pmed them to have a look and vote for whoever they wanted to win. Like I said, I figured I got more votes due to having more united players but when anto. told me that he used to get more votes as well whenever he pmed people, I stopped doing that since no point winning like that.

 

[Balu]

but when anto. told me that he used to get more votes as well whenever he pmed people, I stopped doing that since no point winning like that.

Why am I not surprised, that @antohan also played dirty .

The feck, am I the only one who never even thought about doing shit like that? You guys are all mental.

 

[MJJ]

Why am I not surprised, that @antohan also played dirty .

The feck, am I the only one who never even thought about doing shit like that? You guys are all mental.

Its not really playing dirty though. I find it very impersonal if you just tag four to five players in a thread with a message to vote for whoever you think is going to win hence the pm. But given the bias issues, I realized its not the best method either.

 

[Raees]

@Balu you can't deny this hasn't been a memorable encounter though for all kinds of reasons

 

[Balu]

Its not really playing dirty though. I find it very impersonal if you just tag four to five players in a thread with a message to vote for whoever you think is going to win hence the pm. But given the bias issues, I realized its not the best method either.

It's definitely playing dirty. You can convince yourself that it isn't because you benefited from it, but it clear as day is. Tagging people in the thread is the same by the way. Tagging managers and regulars in draft games is fair enough of course, because they see these games different. Tagging users who usually don't participate, show no interest at all and just vote once because they were tagged are a completely different story. It's wrong as well. If they don't want to take part, let them stay away. It's not like there's a lack of exposition for these matches, we flood the homepage with 2 or 3 of them regularly and everyone on the Caf sees them and can join in if he wants to.

@Balu you can't deny this hasn't been a memorable encounter though for all kinds of reasons

Definitely a memorable encounter, no doubt about that.

 

[Raees]

If they don't want to take part, let them stay away.

Fair enough, I will not do such a thing again I promise.

 

[Balu]

Well, that's just my opinion after all. If everyone is doing it, hell what do I know. For this draft it is now forbidden though and in case I run another draft, it'll be again forbidden, because in my opinion it sucks big time.

 

[coolredwine]

Thats the thing Balu I deliberately PM'd guys who are either swedish or Arsenal fans. They had their own bias of course but it was a strategy on my part.

Also I must admit the manner in which EAP pm'd us before the game asking about Zebec and his teams behaviour throughout the game played a part in me employing such a strategy. I have never been in a nasty game in all my draft encounters - this was my first and hopefully last.. I'd rather lose 18-0 to Joga Bonito but have a decent footballing discussion.

Eh? That was only because we were thoroughly confused about Zebec. Whatever link we found about him had him playing as a LW/LM and not as a CB. That's what EAP discussed with us and then PM'd you. It wasn't nasty at all as he wanted a clarification. THAT. IS. ALL.

Nowhere did we ask anyone to vote for anyone. We only attacked the considered weakness in your team.

 

[Balu]

Also I must admit the manner in which EAP pm'd us before the game asking about Zebec and his teams behaviour throughout the game played a part in me employing such a strategy. I have never been in a nasty game in all my draft encounters - this was my first and hopefully last.. I'd rather lose 18-0 to Joga Bonito but have a decent footballing discussion.

You all went batshit crazy in this game to be honest, all 5 of you. Minor details blown out of proportion, incredible players ridiculed, weird accusations going both ways. It was mental, I'm surprised no one quit and asked to be banned for good actually.

It was awesome .

 

[Raees]

Eh? That was only because we were thoroughly confused about Zebec. Whatever link we found about him had him playing as a LW/LM and not as a CB. That's what EAP discussed with us and then PM'd you. It wasn't nasty at all as he wanted a clarification. THAT. IS. ALL.

Nowhere did we ask anyone to vote for anyone. We only attacked the considered weakness in your team.

Yes but there is a way of going about it, there were other weaknesses in my team which you could also have exposed purely through use of footage.

For example some of my views might have been out of proportion and I probably do not believe half of what I said but I used footage or a piece of research to support my claim, whether or not someone wanted to agree with it was their choice.

You guys were making facts up with some of your claims especially re: Suarez when apparently he wasn't even at Inter Milan in 1964 or Rijkaard in midfield when I posted a Euro 92 game which damn sure proved he played in midfield and playing well while we're at it. You came across super aggressive the three of you and even if some of my views were over the top.. I think the tone of it was pretty normal and I tried to keep it related to the football game in hand i.e. Henry v Blanc.. an in match battle and I used their attributes as well as euro form (equal in that sense hence why I referred to skill set as a way of selling Henry in this matchup) to make a point.

To be fair I am still a newbie to this draft game, I was aware it can get nasty having read through some classic Gio v Antohan encounters but this was certainly an eye-opener... fun though, and certainly epic.

 

[Annahnomoss]

What the feck happened here. 60 votes??! You guys crazy.

 

[Raees]

What the feck happened here. 60 votes??! You guys crazy.

PacMan and Mayweather wish they had this much box office appeal

 

[coolredwine]

Yes but there is a way of going about it, there were other weaknesses in my team which you could also have exposed purely through use of footage.

For example some of my views might have been out of proportion and I probably do not believe half of what I said but I used footage or a piece of research to support my claim, whether or not someone wanted to agree with it was their choice.

You guys were making facts up with some of your claims especially re: Suarez when apparently he wasn't even at Inter Milan in 1964 or Rijkaard in midfield when I posted a Euro 92 game which damn sure proved he played in midfield and playing well while we're at it. You came across super aggressive the three of you and even if some of my views were over the top.. I think the tone of it was pretty normal and I tried to keep it related to the football game in hand i.e. Henry v Blanc.. an in match battle and I used their attributes as well as euro form (equal in that sense hence why I referred to skill set as a way of selling Henry in this matchup) to make a point.

To be fair I am still a newbie to this draft game, I was aware it can get nasty having read through some classic Gio v Antohan encounters but this was certainly an eye-opener... fun though, and certainly epic.

See, we had legitimate questions about some of the things, and we had a right to ask/confirm it. That's the reason why EAP contacted you before the game itself, and then chose to attack it during the game. As it is, we have taken almost all the criticism, be it from Anto or you or Gio or anyone else. And EAP has done his best to justify and defend it. But blatantly making up facts about the players and playing position, we were not.

 

[Moby]

Why am I not surprised, that @antohan also played dirty .

The feck, am I the only one who never even thought about doing shit like that? You guys are all mental.

I had no idea either. WTF?

 

[MJJ]

It's definitely playing dirty. You can convince yourself that it isn't because you benefited from it, but it clear as day is. Tagging people in the thread is the same by the way. Tagging managers and regulars in draft games is fair enough of course, because they see these games different. Tagging users who usually don't participate, show no interest at all and just vote once because they were tagged are a completely different story. It's wrong as well. If they don't want to take part, let them stay away. It's not like there's a lack of exposition for these matches, we flood the homepage with 2 or 3 of them regularly and everyone on the Caf sees them and can join in if he wants to.


Definitely a memorable encounter, no doubt about that.

Yeah, I stopped doing that once anto. talked to me about it because of that reason, if the people who are inboxed voted more evenly than I would have continued but it being an advantage to one side, isnt really on. I dont really tag people as like I said feel its too impersonal so that option is out as well.

Thats the thing Balu I deliberately PM'd guys who are either swedish or Arsenal fans. They had their own bias of course but it was a strategy on my part.

Also I must admit the manner in which EAP pm'd us before the game asking about Zebec and his teams behaviour throughout the game played a part in me employing such a strategy. I have never been in a nasty game in all my draft encounters - this was my first and hopefully last.. I'd rather lose 18-0 to Joga Bonito but have a decent footballing discussion.

We pmed you because we were confused and didnt want to bring it up in the thread if you guys had any proof i.e. giving you lot a chance to clarify without it hurting you. But I see that is now playing dirty in your mind

 

[Annahnomoss]

PacMan and Mayweather wish they had this much box office appeal

You guys should start getting paid for participating in these drafts.

 

[Moby]

Also, this thread is mental.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Antohan - 66
EAP - 62
MJJ - 25
CRW - 24

Then you and Gio with 53 and 20.

I'm disappointed you fell short of the 20 page thread

Who were the official managers? EAP+MJJ+CRW? VS Raees and Gio? Was kind of funny with everybody posting, we should have a doubles tournament some time.

 

[Gio]

Why am I not surprised, that @antohan also played dirty .

The feck, am I the only one who never even thought about doing shit like that? You guys are all mental.

As refreshing as it was, for once, to see a tight game swing my way overnight, I agree in that I'm not entirely comfortable with that approach. I didn't really like it when it happened before with certain posters getting tagged nor when it happened in your game. At the same time, I don't want to hang Raees out to dry here given he's had to battle against 177 posts versus 73 of our own. And I've not offered him much support in defending some of the more questionable stuff in all that.

So it comes back to the old issue of draft etiquette and, without getting too wanky, our behaviour codes where the rules are limited. And fundamentally it's about the grey area between winning the match at all costs against the gentlemanly approach we like but do find a little boring.