...and yes. FdJ would have been perfect for us. Amrabat? He is no deep playmaker. He is more like competition for Casemiro, which is also needed. We need someone playing like Bissouma did yesterday though. For the money, that is left that would be someone in the mould of Leon Goretzka or Pierre-Emile Højbjerg. They are no Bellinghams, but provides a lot of the same sort of play thart FdJ does. Energy, leadership, good passing and lots of power. You cannot write of Mount after two games though. He is an intelligent player. He is just not the solution that we need right now. Mount is played out of position and he needs time that we does not really have.
The Casemiro/Mount/Bruno midfield
- Thread starter Malone_Post
- Start date
Who else plays every game or is available? I say it because he keeps moving him to the wing when hes supposed to be our best creative midfielder. He did it last year with Weghorst at 10 as well. Im not plucking this bs from thin air am I. I’m giving an opinion on what I see, come up with a logical reason you would do that unless he doesn’t trust him/rates him as highly as most fans (not me) do.
Case must be fumming after last match
Doesn't help that he seems a player who starts his season a bit slow and would require a while to be in top form.
But this will eventually work imo. Once Case got his form back and Mount/Bruno get used to the new system. To me it seems like the idea is one would stay back a bit while the other ventures forward but they haven't worked out that yet.
Agreed. The advantage of Mount over Eriksen is his ability to press and win back possession. I would give it 10 to 15 games before passing judgment and making any changes, but some seem to have already concluded it won’t work after to 10 to 15 minutes
I'm afraid only one of Mount or Bruno should start in central attacking midfield. In my opinion Mount would suit Antony (and perhaps Garnacho) better as he is a more conservative player.
Forget Mount in central or defensive midfield, he is not a 6 or 8.
Forget Mount in central or defensive midfield, he is not a 6 or 8.
I really don't understand why ETH didn't bring a press resistant ball carrier to partner Casemiro in midfield. Frenkie de Jong "replacement". He had similar type of a player in his second Ajax team(Ryan Gravenberch). That's what really puzzles me.
What made him deviate from that approach? Even Tifo made a video during last season that if you want to build a team around Bruno Fernandes, you need players around him that can really keep possession, because Bruno can't and that weakness of his must be somewhat nullified by the rest of the team, and for that reason they mentioned that Frenkie de Jong was essential, or someone similar to him.
How Ten Hag doesn't see this obvious problem and doesn't try to rectify it, when it looked like he wanted to when he first arrived at the club - i have no clue. I don't understand what changed and why he seemingly "abandoned" his philosophy.
What made him deviate from that approach? Even Tifo made a video during last season that if you want to build a team around Bruno Fernandes, you need players around him that can really keep possession, because Bruno can't and that weakness of his must be somewhat nullified by the rest of the team, and for that reason they mentioned that Frenkie de Jong was essential, or someone similar to him.
How Ten Hag doesn't see this obvious problem and doesn't try to rectify it, when it looked like he wanted to when he first arrived at the club - i have no clue. I don't understand what changed and why he seemingly "abandoned" his philosophy.
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The Ajax-midfield was VdB-FdJ-Lasse Schøne with VdB as Bruno, FdJ as Casemiro and Schøne as Eriksen/Mount. It worked extremely well because of the frontplayers being technical players AND runners, making fast attacking possible. With the right front three, it could work here as well.
I think regardless of who is a better 10 long term I hope we just start to see players dropped for poor performances.
Yes. Them playing too high stretches us too far. Casemiro needs support somehow, it should start with the CF pressing, but Rashford hasn’t been effective. If they both go up we have a massive hole behind them.
I think it’s like trying to play chess after having to spot your opponent a couple pieces. Without a functional CF, the press doesn’t work. Without an effective press, we concede midfield. Without a mobile DM we have no shield for the back 4. We did fix the goalkeeper issue, and we might have fixed the CF issue. Mount is a solution for a problem we don’t have: he should be playing instead of Bruno, not next to him. We can function with Casemiro and Mount if/when the CF bullies their back line. Until then, it’s not working.
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We shouldn't have sold Fred as it stands. At least he got in the opponent's face. Mount and Bruno move about too much and Casemiro is not an anchor for the defence. Sign a proper DM please.
Onana
Lindelof Varane Martinez
Dalot Bruno Casemiro Mount Shaw
Hojlund Rasford
Lindelof Varane Martinez
Dalot Bruno Casemiro Mount Shaw
Hojlund Rasford
If you want the both of them playing in central positions it has to be with a back 3, or you have to get a DM with more legs than Case but we don’t have that.. the signing of Mount just seems to ask more questions than it’s answered unfortunately.
This is true, I certainly don't have confidence in the set up. You don't have to be a expert tactician to see the rationale in how a team is balanced it's the profile of players in the shape that is somewhat more important than the quality.
The only way you can balance the midfield is playing a diamond but that would require another purchase in the market for a more natural 8. For ETH to have had varied success last season with the double pivot and then to start the new season with a new system its russian roulette. Maybe with two seasons of the same system which means four windows it's a safer bet to change it but the midfield is really and truly stuck and there's no wiggle room financially to amend it.
Until I see a fixture in the upcoming games where the performance clearly demonstrates structure in the middle this team will finish outside the top 5.
It depends on whether you survive long enough to find out but the smarter ones find out pretty soon and try to mitigate the damage. Under the Glazers though you might find yourself without funds to replace the mistake, I don't think Mourinho and Ole wanted Matic to stay as long as he did here.
Everyone is forgetting. ETH wanted to sign Rabiot twice…
The midfield trio of the thread title is simply not mobile enough, not quick enough, not athletic enough and not physical enough to compete against any half decent PL midfield. FFS they made Wolves midfield look like prime Barcelona and then they get spanked by Brighton a week later!
Just an awful balance.
Just an awful balance.
Aye, cheers.
I'm no "the manager is always right" but I would think ten Hag would probably be aware of the potential imbalance most everyone is commenting at length, that's like... his job. I would tend to agree with your answer : Not all the pieces are here yet for the shape to work properly and that also hinders the player learning it. This circles back to the problem of squad depth : It's maybe overly ambitious to rely on a system like that and doubly so with having no backup for some essential pieces (said pieces being for some unproven).
Yep. My guess would be Ten Hag is having them play a certain way with the understanding that when Hojland / Mainoo / Amrabat is available, it will click, instead of playing a different way until then. I hope. Cuz it makes zero sense to keep using Rashford as a CF.
That’s not looking like such a crazy idea now.
No doubt Rabiot and Arnautovic would have been solid signings with what this team current has available.
this trio need to be more compact off the ball. Its that simple. Both in build up and out of possession
Come up with a logical reason why he would make him captain. You've not really provided any, could have easily picked Rashford, the darling of Manchester, or Varane even for the experience.
Thats a mouthwatering midfield. Mouthwatering for opposition midfields.
Last season we saw how exposed defensively Casemiro got and it led to most of his booking because he was having to reach into a lot of tackles to make up for the spaces he was trying to cover. I know Bruno runs around a lot but to be honest it’s usually effective when he covering and that requires no positional awareness, just good eyesight and energy. Mount also has the energy but lack the positional awareness so far but it can be developed with lesser attacking responsibilities.
So won’t say it can’t work because we are yet to know what ETH truly wants Mount to be in that midfield. All I know is here at United he has a fetish of some sort for these type midfielders(Sabitzer, trying to convert Fred). He expects his b2b guy to set up shop in the 18 and also possess the ungodly ability to make defensive recovery in our half at the same time, when our attack fails. This is some voodoo shit, Ngolo Kante is the only player that fits this profile and it broke him.
Last season we saw how exposed defensively Casemiro got and it led to most of his booking because he was having to reach into a lot of tackles to make up for the spaces he was trying to cover. I know Bruno runs around a lot but to be honest it’s usually effective when he covering and that requires no positional awareness, just good eyesight and energy. Mount also has the energy but lack the positional awareness so far but it can be developed with lesser attacking responsibilities.
So won’t say it can’t work because we are yet to know what ETH truly wants Mount to be in that midfield. All I know is here at United he has a fetish of some sort for these type midfielders(Sabitzer, trying to convert Fred). He expects his b2b guy to set up shop in the 18 and also possess the ungodly ability to make defensive recovery in our half at the same time, when our attack fails. This is some voodoo shit, Ngolo Kante is the only player that fits this profile and it broke him.
We have an obsession with attacking midfielders and all action to box type and utter contempt for proper passers / playmakers. Anyhoo hopefully we bring one more in and Mount adapts to a new role.
Whatever the plan is, I just hope it clicks soon. With a little confidence this midfield might work.
Agree but one is a suspected money grabber and the other is either a racist or something I care less about.
They’re just not welcome here.
Don’t worry in our next rebuild we will get some likeable sorts.
Hopefully common sense will prevail.
Yeah we lost but imo we saw a bit of how that would work in the first half. Sadly we run out of gas in the second half. We looked like we're just out of some heavy fitness sessions against Wolves. Then we looked quite fit in the first half against Spurs so imo it's ok to hope our players could get fully fit in the next match or the match after.Agreed. The advantage of Mount over Eriksen is his ability to press and win back possession. I would give it 10 to 15 games before passing judgment and making any changes, but some seem to have already concluded it won’t work after to 10 to 15 minutes
Imo it would be much better once we get more used to the system, our players get fully fit and Hojlund could provide the pressing and holding job upfront.
If the first match of the season we run out of gas that doesnt bode well.
First match supposed to be our fittest time, sharpness aside.
It is madness. I can't wrap my head around the idea that there is a scenario in which Bruno should be playing deeper. This makes ZERO sense to me.
Bingo. For me it's really hard to judge Mount because I don't know if what he's doing is actually what ETH wants him to do. Normally I would say "no way this is what the manager wants", BUT Erik did the same with Sabitzer, van de Beek and even Fred (although Fred actually had some natural instincts to play a bit deeper, and this was by far the best midfield change ETH did).
I agree with your post 100%. I also think we can squeeze much more from this midfield, I can see Mount doing Fred job quite nicely, we just need to push him deeper and for gods sake, push Bruno to attacking, free-roaming position. Right now we are not using Mount the "optimal" way, and effectively we play man down in midfield.
Is this true?
Said before the season started there’s not a single combination of these players in the squad that make a good midfield on paper, to my dismay they look even worse than imagined in theory out on the pitch. Imagine that.
If we close out the transfer window with this set of midfielders, we are in big trouble. It is not a midfield you can expect to qualify for the CL.
No it is not trueIs this true?
1 tackle as per PL stats. Lowest number of touches in the first xi, and just 6 more passes than Eriksen who's played half as much.Is this true?
The answer might be to play Bruno as a true number 8 (that's his number after all). Have Bruno be the box to box and sit along side Casemiro for defense and passing. He obviously would have to change his thinking and be much less risk averse. He played as the last midfielder a few times last season and did a good job spreading the ball. Some more reasons this could work:
- Bruno is not a great AM and never will be. Sometimes his passing is pretty bad (e.g. his poor attempts at switching almost every match and his crosses missing by at least 10 yards too often) and he can't blow by the opposition when pressed (e.g. Maddison against us)
- Play Mount as the AM. He might be more effective than Bruno. Mount would keep possession better and he is certainly better at dribbling.
- This would add mobility to our defense because Bruno can cover a lot of ground.
- Bruno would provide a commanding presence in the middle of the pitch which we are lacking.
I don't know if Bruno would accept this change. However, I really think Bruno could be a much better 8 than he ever will be as an AM.
- Bruno is not a great AM and never will be. Sometimes his passing is pretty bad (e.g. his poor attempts at switching almost every match and his crosses missing by at least 10 yards too often) and he can't blow by the opposition when pressed (e.g. Maddison against us)
- Play Mount as the AM. He might be more effective than Bruno. Mount would keep possession better and he is certainly better at dribbling.
- This would add mobility to our defense because Bruno can cover a lot of ground.
- Bruno would provide a commanding presence in the middle of the pitch which we are lacking.
I don't know if Bruno would accept this change. However, I really think Bruno could be a much better 8 than he ever will be as an AM.
The question I guess is how long can ETH give this midfield to try and get it to work. Do we trust ETH enough to say “let’s write this season off and see if you can get this more attacking system to work as a long-term plan”? If not, how long before he has to change it?
For Forest, hopefully start Martial at CF, who is a lot better than Rashford at holding the ball up (plus it should mean we have a competent winger). That in itself will hopefully give us more structure than the Wolves game.
I would also then like Sancho to start in place of Antony as I think he’s a better link up player and can also more easily drop into a central position and interchange with Bruno/Mount but I don’t see that part happening sadly.
I would love this strategy to ultimately work as in theory it should give us a lot of control but I just feel currently we haven’t got the right personnel for it.
For Forest, hopefully start Martial at CF, who is a lot better than Rashford at holding the ball up (plus it should mean we have a competent winger). That in itself will hopefully give us more structure than the Wolves game.
I would also then like Sancho to start in place of Antony as I think he’s a better link up player and can also more easily drop into a central position and interchange with Bruno/Mount but I don’t see that part happening sadly.
I would love this strategy to ultimately work as in theory it should give us a lot of control but I just feel currently we haven’t got the right personnel for it.
Bruno is one of the best attacking mids in the league. He’s scored 44 in 124 games and assisted 32. Only De Bryune has created more goal scoring chances. Moving him after two games and him just being made captain is silly.
Bruno as a deeplying 8 would never truly work. He is way to reckless and not press resistant enough for that role. On top of that you are taking him further away from where he is fantastic. Bruno is at his best as a creator higher up the pitch. Asking Bruno to be more composed and do less risky passing is essentially ruining what makes him the great player he can be.
The midfield worked quite well in the first half against Spurs, but we lacked the finishing. In the second half we stopped pressing and man marking and all went to shit.
Casemiro doesn't look up to speed. Mount hasn't settled. Bruno has got the weight of captaincy around his neck. We have absolutely nobody in midfielder if there is a turnover.
Mctominay, although limited in his attributes, could sit whilst others bomb on. We're too offensive and leave huge holes in behind.
Mctominay, although limited in his attributes, could sit whilst others bomb on. We're too offensive and leave huge holes in behind.
Bruno is a 10, any other position in midfield that requires discipline, passing accuracy and consistency just isn’t him. My starting 11 would be, as a 4-2-1-3
Onana
AWB
Martinez
Varane
Shaw
Case
McT
Bruno
Rashford Left
Rasmus CF
Mount Right
Obviously an upgraded DMF to sit alongside Case is required, McT is just a fill in for now
Onana
AWB
Martinez
Varane
Shaw
Case
McT
Bruno
Rashford Left
Rasmus CF
Mount Right
Obviously an upgraded DMF to sit alongside Case is required, McT is just a fill in for now
Our midfield defending is like a bunch of Freds on his worst day
I don’t need to i made the statement, you’re the one which brought the captaincy into it. And I also gave the reason why I think he’s captain before.
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