The Casemiro/Mount/Bruno midfield

[l-tchang]

we played the ten hag way during pre season when the youngsters and the fringe players were one the pitch. When those three were on the pitch they didn’t follow the Rules and the principles (see the Dortmund game). It’ sa tactical issue, casemiro cannot be on his own and the Other 2 far away waiting for the ball. They should be near him, building up the play slowly waiting for an opportunity for a killer pass.

i think that the team will Have change by september and when mainoo will be back, i see him holding the midflied with casemiro plus Bruno in front of them

 

[Borys]

I rewatched the highlights, I actually think in this formation Bruno is the problem. He had a shocking game defensively, but that's nothing new - the only thing he offers off the ball in defensive transition is energy and running body, he's one of the easiest players to dribble past and has no positional discipline. Which is not his fault, it's bizarre that ETH watched him for a season and thought this system will make a good use of Bruno.

Mount I thought was not that bad, I can see what he brings to the table. His problem is he is deployed in a role that has very little impact on our game (van de beek role in attack, and the only running body up front when defending - it's not really pressing if that's one player running). Also don't think he is a player who loses possession easily as some say. He should simply be playing deeper also to accommodate Bruno higher up.

This setup we used against Lens and Wolves is completely flawed.

 

[noodlehair]

So we need to choose between dropping our 85m or 60m player. Our manager's hand-picked transfers. Make it make sense.

We could just drop Mount for Eriksen and use the team that played well for most of last season...aside from that Rashford really needs to be on the left with a striker up top.

I don't really know why we'd skip out Eriksen and go straight down to McTominay. I don't know where this thing that Eriksen can't play in our midfield has come from when him playing there was a big part of our improvement last season and we were never, in any game (complete capitulation at Anfield aside - which Eriksen didn't play in anyway), as wide open as we were against Wolves.

 

[Sandikan]

The big worry is that Mount coming in means Bruno is too deep. You don't want him operating too deep as he's more reckless with the ball than most, so ideally you'd have 2 workaholics behind him.

 

[tomaldinho1]

The big worry is that Mount coming in means Bruno is too deep. You don't want him operating too deep as he's more reckless with the ball than most, so ideally you'd have 2 workaholics behind him.

I wish that were the case but Bruno is always furthest forward + will always roam.

Bruno Fernandes stats and ratings | Sofascore
Mason Mount stats and ratings | Sofascore
Casemiro stats and ratings | Sofascore

The weird thing from our midfield three is how much time Casemiro spend in an advanced role. I'm hoping this was just a strange game that was a one off.

 

[podurban2]

We could just drop Mount for Eriksen and use the team that played well for most of last season...aside from that Rashford really needs to be on the left with a striker up top.

I don't really know why we'd skip out Eriksen and go straight down to McTominay. I don't know where this thing that Eriksen can't play in our midfield has come from when him playing there was a big part of our improvement last season and we were never, in any game (complete capitulation at Anfield aside - which Eriksen didn't play in anyway), as wide open as we were against Wolves.

I'd prefer Eriksen before McTominay, I'm just aghast that we will be in the same position as we were last year, and be forced to bench our 85m or 60m player in order to create balance in midfield.

 

[RedorDead21]

I'd prefer Eriksen before McTominay, I'm just aghast that we will be in the same position as we were last year, and be forced to bench our 85m or 60m player in order to create balance in midfield.

We just need to buy a carrick type and there’s plenty of evidence to suggest we’ve been trying to plan to do this in the next few weeks. Then we have nice rotation options for AM role. We’ve lost Fred so his position needs a replacement for sure. There will be games I’m sure where mount and Bruno will be fine once they have afew months under their belts. Mount looked shot for a start not one tackle during the game…

 

[noodlehair]

I'd prefer Eriksen before McTominay, I'm just aghast that we will be in the same position as we were last year, and be forced to bench our 85m or 60m player in order to create balance in midfield.

Well we'll see how it goes but that will be on ETH for signing a player and using them to create an imbalance in our midfield. It's going backwards imo. Last season we had no imbalance we just lacked reliable cover. Now we have imbalance and potentially don't even have unreliable cover if both Eriksen and Casemiro are unavailable, like they were for a significant chunk of important games last season.

I wouldn't expect to see Mctominay + Casemiro though if Eriksen is fine.

 

[RedorDead21]

Well we'll see how it goes but that will be on ETH for signing a player and using them to create an imbalance in our midfield.

It’s one game and their first together in the PL.
we started poorly last season also and found our feet. SAF teams were slow starters after years playing together. The window isn’t shut so his plans for our midfield in it’s look and balance for this season are not even known just yet…

 

[RuudTom83]

The weird thing from our midfield three is how much time Casemiro spend in an advanced role. I'm hoping this was just a strange game that was a one off.

True, even against Wolves when everything was going wrong it was a bit alarming that he was still making runs ahead of the ball at times.

Ideally Casemiro should just shield the back four...he has good attacking qualities but he shouldn't burden himself with that duty...leave it to the rest.

 

[MDFC Manager]

True, even against Wolves when everything was going wrong it was a bit alarming that he was still making runs ahead of the ball at times.

Ideally Casemiro should just shield the back four...he has good attacking qualities but he shouldn't burden himself with that duty...leave it to the rest.

He did leave it to the rest to start of with. The rest did sweet feck all unfortunately.

 

[Rozay]

Can we not just get Verratti on loan for a season? He hasn’t gone to Saudi yet and PSG are clearly willing to let him go.

 

[EireRed_GS]

to be totally honest, i didnt understand signing Mount at all, and still am struggling to now. Ive never really thought he was all that at Chelsea..

I will though give him the benefit of the doubt since its only the first game and I trust EtH's judgement 100%

 

[CloneMC16]

We could just drop Mount for Eriksen and use the team that played well for most of last season...aside from that Rashford really needs to be on the left with a striker up top.

I don't really know why we'd skip out Eriksen and go straight down to McTominay. I don't know where this thing that Eriksen can't play in our midfield has come from when him playing there was a big part of our improvement last season and we were never, in any game (complete capitulation at Anfield aside - which Eriksen didn't play in anyway), as wide open as we were against Wolves.

We were losing midfield battles quite frequently last season. We didn't have teams running straight through the midfield every game, but we were being outfought quite often. Eriksen's progression from deep was quite good, but his defensive awareness and physicality is poor. For Mount to make any sense at all, I thought the plan would be for him to sit next to Casemiro and provide some defensive stability and energy that we lacked when Eriksen was playing. Not playing in the final third with Bruno and Rashford.

If we benched or moved Mount out of midfield, I would expect Eriksen to return, but it's not solving one of the main issues we had last season.

We absolutely cannot play like that against anybody competent or we'll get a thrashing. ETH will have to change things. He did after our start last season as well.

 

[Walrus]

Not a popular opinion, but we will struggle to control games with Bruno as a midfielder. He is too much of a throwback #10 - 10 years ago he wouldve been one of the top players around but the game has moved on and is now more about pressing, possession and control.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Not a popular opinion, but we will struggle to control games with Bruno as a midfielder. He is too much of a throwback #10 - 10 years ago he wouldve been one of the top players around but the game has moved on and is now more about pressing, possession and control.

It is quite a popular opinion on here to be fair, the debate is if he is worth the trade off.

 

[starboy]

Potentially we could end with same midfield duo (Eriksen - Case) with Mason in front of them and Bruno on right

 

[simonhch]

I certainly agree with the general consensus that one game is ample time to draw judgement and write this off as an abject failure……

 

[noodlehair]

We were losing midfield battles quite frequently last season. We didn't have teams running straight through the midfield every game, but we were being outfought quite often. Eriksen's progression from deep was quite good, but his defensive awareness and physicality is poor. For Mount to make any sense at all, I thought the plan would be for him to sit next to Casemiro and provide some defensive stability and energy that we lacked when Eriksen was playing. Not playing in the final third with Bruno and Rashford.

If we benched or moved Mount out of midfield, I would expect Eriksen to return, but it's not solving one of the main issues we had last season.

We absolutely cannot play like that against anybody competent or we'll get a thrashing. ETH will have to change things. He did after our start last season as well.

I would agree Eriksen lacks physicality and another issue is he tailed off badly for the last half hour of games, but I wouldn't agree it was one of our main issues last season. A bigger issue was having no one to adequately stand in for either him or Casemiro.

I don't remember many (if any?) games where we lost the midfield battle by playing both of them. We only lost 3 games all season with them as a midfield pair, and only one before mid April, by which point the entire team looked exhausted. Maybe not a lot of games where we dictated the ball, but we weren't a possession side.

I don't really understand what Mount has shown to suggest he can add defensive qualities to a central midfield. Not that I'm saying you're wrong to assume that's why we signed him, because I think a lot of people thought that. If you don't think Eriksen is physical enough you are definitely not going to like Mount though, and part of the reason he runs around so much is because he doesn't read the game so just ends up chasing it instead, which isn't a trate that will transfer well to CM.

You're also right about the start to last season, but then we had or signed the players to fix it

 

[RuudTom83]

Haaland made 1 incorrect run close to half time…and Pep bollocked him on the pitch.

I feel this new midfield trio + a supporting FB needs a lot of coaching. EtH needs to be on the edge of his technical area most of the game tbh.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

You would have thought that when ETH hand picks a player like Mount to compliment the midfield, he has the style of play utilising him already in place and it’s a case if coaching him and the other attacking players over the following weeks and months to adopt to ETH’s system with Mount in the side.

Worryingly so far and in particular on Monday night, it’s like we’ve won Mount in a raffle and he met his team mates at 7.59pm on Monday to have a kick about and see what they could muster.

I’m going to need a lot of convincing that adding Mount to the two already in there is the answer to all our midfield problems.

 

[CloneMC16]

I would agree Eriksen lacks physicality and another issue is he tailed off badly for the last half hour of games, but I wouldn't agree it was one of our main issues last season. A bigger issue was having no one to adequately stand in for either him or Casemiro.

I don't remember many (if any?) games where we lost the midfield battle by playing both of them. We only lost 3 games all season with them as a midfield pair, and only one before mid April, by which point the entire team looked exhausted. Maybe not a lot of games where we dictated the ball, but we weren't a possession side.

I don't really understand what Mount has shown to suggest he can add defensive qualities to a central midfield. Not that I'm saying you're wrong to assume that's why we signed him, because I think a lot of people thought that. If you don't think Eriksen is physical enough you are definitely not going to like Mount though, and part of the reason he runs around so much is because he doesn't read the game so just ends up chasing it instead, which isn't a trate that will transfer well to CM.

You're also right about the start to last season, but then we had or signed the players to fix it

I didn't want Mount at all. I'm making an assumption as to what ETH's plan was for him. I don't understand why we'd sign a player that Chelsea mainly played as a #10 and ask him to play as a #8. If we're going to try and expect Casemiro to basically play midfield alone, we're going to have a bad time.

The fact that we've signed Mount suggests to me that ETH wasn't completely happy with what Eriksen was doing. I appreciate him for bringing progressive passing ability from deep that we haven't had for a while. I can't look past the games where he was doing very little defensively. These were the games that we got thrashed in and the games where the opposition were dominating midfield. We didn't lose many games, but there were a lot of very dodgy performances. Midfield needs technical ability and legs. In my view, our midfielders aren't safe enough on the ball to be weaker on the physical side of things.

I'm interested in what ETH will do. If we're not going to sign Amrabat, Mount will have to play deeper than he did against Wolves. My copium is that Mount said couple years ago that he sees himself more as a #8. The Wolves game was an experiment and the setup will change when it's proven that it doesn't work. It will all work out in the end...

 

[noodlehair]

I didn't want Mount at all. I'm making an assumption as to what ETH's plan was for him. I don't understand why we'd sign a player that Chelsea mainly played as a #10 and ask him to play as a #8. If we're going to try and expect Casemiro to basically play midfield alone, we're going to have a bad time.

The fact that we've signed Mount suggests to me that ETH wasn't completely happy with what Eriksen was doing. I appreciate him for bringing progressive passing ability from deep that we haven't had for a while. I can't look past the games where he was doing very little defensively. These were the games that we got thrashed in and the games where the opposition were dominating midfield. We didn't lose many games, but there were a lot of very dodgy performances. Midfield needs technical ability and legs. In my view, our midfielders aren't safe enough on the ball to be weaker on the physical side of things.

I'm interested in what ETH will do. If we're not going to sign Amrabat, Mount will have to play deeper than he did against Wolves. My copium is that Mount said couple years ago that he sees himself more as a #8. The Wolves game was an experiment and the setup will change when it's proven that it doesn't work. It will all work out in the end...

Yeah that's fair enough. I'm lost why he's signed Mount. I was hoping it was just to give us something different in attack or in linking the midfield to the attack, since he does have qualities that are different from Bruno and our forwards. He can be very good around the edge of the box when the space isn't there in behind. Even in pre season though it was obvious that wasn't the plan.

I don't think we got thrashed as such with Eriksen. A couple of times early in the season, but one was away to City, one involved a De Gea capitulation, and both were pre Casemiro being in the first team. Then the Anfield debacle Eriksen was injured and didn't play. It is clear ETH wants to change something in that area but I'm lost on how he does that without signing another midfielder. I can't invisage a way that Bruno and Mount in the same midfield 3 will work

 

[tentan]

We still need a proper CM. Mount, Bruno and Eriksen are all naturally AMs, all 3 are fighting over one position essentially. Need Amrabat ASAP.

 

[Blood Mage]

If Casemiro suffers an injury or burnout we only have McTominay to protect our back four. Why are so many on here oblivious to this and can't see what a massive problem this could be for us this season? Our midfield is a shit show.

 

[surf]

Maybe the club should have just forked over the money for Fernandez and Caicedo. They are going to be sensational together.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Maybe the club should have just forked over the money for Fernandez and Caicedo. They are going to be sensational together.

If they both live up to their potential and Chelsea get several years out of them, £220m (or whatever their fees added up to) will be seen as a steal.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

If Casemiro suffers an injury or burnout we only have McTominay to protect our back four. Why are so many on here oblivious to this and can't see what a massive problem this could be for us this season? Our midfield is a shit show.

Lacking a backup DM is not a shit show. We’re after another midfielder anyway.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We still need a proper CM. Mount, Bruno and Eriksen are all naturally AMs, all 3 are fighting over one position essentially. Need Amrabat ASAP.

How highly do you rate Amrabat? A stop gap or along term starter material? Looks like a squad player to me albeit he appears to have qualities we need.

 

[Isotope]

Exactly and the question should be why we faltered in that regard and how we could improve going forward. Shaw was coming in-field to create the box and Wolves were leaving AWB unmarked and used him to trigger the press. So it wasn't just a case of Casemiro, Mount and Bruno in midfield but also Shaw as the inverted fullback coming into midfield and AWB forming a back 3 with Varane and Martinez which is connected to the issues in midfield. But as things transpired, there was confusion among some players as to who was responsible for occupying the space alongside Casemiro, which caused instability in defensive transition for us and hence played into the opponent's hands. That then meant Martinez himself tried plugging the hole and it nearly cost us dear with a red card.

Was it player's confusion? I don't think AWB bombing forward on the right side at every opportunity was on him. It looked like he's just following instruction. Then like you said, it caused defensive instability (plus Case and Martinez didn't look match fit).

If this will be EtH's formation going forward, then that's Pavard interest does make sense. Otherwise if we go back to regular 4-2-3-1, then we really need attacking RB.

 

[noodlehair]

But at least we got to spend £210m on Casemiro, Antony and Mount.

Tbf if Chelsea had signed Casemiro, we wouldn't have finished top four and they definitely wouldn't have ended up being the second best team in Chelsea. Antony is better than some of the rubbish they've signed in the same positions as well.

Really not sure how people are using a team that spent a record amount of money in order to finish 12th as an example of what we should have done.

 

[Lecland07]

We signed Mount because we want to, essentially, play two attacking midfielders, which I thought was pretty obvious. Ten Hag wants the players to play with a high press up the pitch, with Mount and Fernandes pushed up near the box.

The issue with the game with Wolves is that the passing quality and decision making was terrible.

Mount made some good runs into the box in the first half, but was ignored every time. It isn't going to work unless the players actually make the correct choices, but, then again, no formation will work if they continue to make poor choices.

If the players actually pass properly and choose not to make stupid passes, I think it will work.

 

[Litch]

Not completely convinced but thats pretty much my view of everything except the defence. The static forward line and our poor wingers dont help.

 

[Smores]

We signed Mount because we want to, essentially, play two attacking midfielders, which I thought was pretty obvious. Ten Hag wants the players to play with a high press up the pitch, with Mount and Fernandes pushed up near the box.

The issue with the game with Wolves is that the passing quality and decision making was terrible.

Mount made some good runs into the box in the first half, but was ignored every time. It isn't going to work unless the players actually make the correct choices, but, then again, no formation will work if they continue to make poor choices.

If the players actually pass properly and choose not to make stupid passes, I think it will work.

Nearly every formation will work wonders if all passing is superb. Issue is creating a system that allows for the passing to be successful and we didn't have that against Wolves. Casemiro can't be expected to play playmaker whilst surrounded without support. Go wide and our players are goal scorers not creators.

 

[2 man midfield]

Casemuno will be a short lived thing. Trouble is Mount is the only droppable one of the three.

 

[roonster09]

Casemuno will be a short lived thing

For sure it will be, that's a terrible name

 

[Highfather_24]

Our right side of defence sucks at progressing the ball. Get Amrabat in at DM, and suddenly more balls will be played into Mount/Bruno, same with a ball playing RB/RCB.

 

[Lecland07]

Nearly every formation will work wonders if all passing is superb. Issue is creating a system that allows for the passing to be successful and we didn't have that against Wolves. Casemiro can't be expected to play playmaker whilst surrounded without support. Go wide and our players are goal scorers not creators.

I think it is is there, but the players just chose to do some ridiculous things. I can think of countless poor decisions from the first half alone:

Antony passing to Fernandes when he is surrounded by 6 players when he had loads of space to run into ahead. Like what was he even thinking Fernandes would do there?

Garnacho cutting in multiple times. One time he ignored Rashford on the wing, who could have crossed it; another time, Mount got in behind the defence, but Garnacho refused to pass it. Instead, he ended up losing the ball.

Fernandes made a poor pass to Antony, who is running towards a packed defence. I don't really get what Fernandes was think Antony was going to do, even if the pass was good. It was just poor play that led to a loss of possession again.

The more mistakes you make, the more pressure there will be. It will also make the opposition more confident because of the Manutd's utter stupidity.

 

[Adnan]

Was it player's confusion? I don't think AWB bombing forward on the right side at every opportunity was on him. It looked like he's just following instruction. Then like you said, it caused defensive instability (plus Case and Martinez didn't look match fit).

If this will be EtH's formation going forward, then that's Pavard interest does make sense. Otherwise if we go back to regular 4-2-3-1, then we really need attacking RB.

The problem in possession wasn't that AWB was bombing forward because that was the plan depending on which side we were actively building the play through.

The actual problem again started from deeper if we're to focus on our in-possession play. Onana had no problem finding the pass but Wolves were setup in such a way out of possesion that their pressing traps centred around leaving both AWB and Casemiro in space to receive the pass whilst cutting off the passing lanes to the other players. So when the ball would go to AWB it would trigger the Wolves press and he'd either keep passing back to Onana or the pass in-field to Casemiro was a possibility. But the issue with the pass to Casemiro was that it seemed like Wolves were intentionally leaving him in space, so the pass from either Onana or AWB is played into him and Wolves could then press him. Onana it seems read the situation and kept going to AWB and also played a lovely ping to Garnacho in one sequence which Garnacho failed to control. But when AWB played the ball into Casemiro, the Wolves players pounced on him and the pressing trap worked because Casemiro isn't the best at playing on the half turn against the opponent's press. And that there was a big problem and one of the big reasons we kept getting stuck in deeper areas of the pitch.

It's why it's very important to have fullbacks who can help progress play vertically and why the links to Pavard make sense. But we also require a first phase midfielder who is comfortable at receiving the ball on the half turn. Someone like Amrabat who we're linked to has the potential to be that player for us. And players like that can alleviate pressure of someone like AWB if he has the option of playing the ball into someone like a Amrabat, Bennacer or even a Alan Varela who is comfortable playing in confined spaces. This is the type of player we need and hopefully Kobbie Mainoo is back soon aswell, because he has qualities that we also lack.

 

[tentan]

How highly do you rate Amrabat? A stop gap or along term starter material? Looks like a squad player to me albeit he appears to have qualities we need.

I think he'll do a good job. Wasn't my first choice, would've preferred Caicedo or Rabiot but he's the most realistic option at the moment.

Mount if anything should be the squad player. If our midfield stays as it is then we'll struggle to win many games or just limp to victories.