You might be surprised to learn that we played a few preseason games too where the exact same scenario of getting overrun in midfield happened time and again.
The Casemiro/Mount/Bruno midfield
- Thread starter Malone_Post
- Start date
You might be surprised to learn that we played a few preseason games too where the exact same scenario of getting overrun in midfield happened time and again.
While i agree, not many in the world can, if any.
Which was not the case yesterday. It was a 6 and two 10s. No 6 in the world can function well like that. Even in case of City who probably have the best DMF in the world, he had Gundogan to help him, and Stones was effectively a midfielder. Casemiro had no one to help him yesterday.
Not to mention they press so much better and keep the ball so much better.
On second thoughts, what exactly has changed since last season? If Bruno - Case - Eriksen worked , then this will also work. just give it some time. Yes, it won't work against everyone but I would like to believe yesterday was an exception rather than a norm.
Nunes was prime modric yesterday. So lets give some credit to Wolves too.
Nunes was prime modric yesterday. So lets give some credit to Wolves too.
Why can't we just follow the trend of playing one of our full back into DM during in game? As pioneer, Pep/City did that very well last season with such innovative move, and I have already notice couple of other top teams following same tactic at the start of this season (Arsenal playing Partey as RB/DM hybrid role in their first game, while Liverpool also playing TAA as RB/DM hybrid at times too.
Dalot/AWB Casemiro
Bruno Mount
Casemiro Shaw
Bruno Mount
This way Casemiro wont get isolated and surrounded by 5 opponents or something. And we could also continue to play Bruno Mount to support our attack and do their pressing in final third.Bruno Mount
Casemiro Shaw
Bruno Mount
Bruno made 6 tackles and 1 interception last night, Mount 0 tackles and 1 interception. If Mount is meant to be an 8 and Bruno the 10 then that's pretty damning on Mount. Mount contributed nothing attacking wise either while Bruno got in one shot and an assist and made 3 key passes.
I'm willing to give Mount time to settle, but if it's not working at the very least put a shift in.
I'm willing to give Mount time to settle, but if it's not working at the very least put a shift in.
Money should have been utilised on a backup DM & DLP instead of wasted
I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense. Replace Eriksen with McT, would it work, no right? It won't work because Mount is not half the passer Eriksen is, and he is not playing deeper like Eriksen did last year.
I believe Shaw was the inverted fullback last night but it didn’t really work as Garnacho lost the ball so often on the left hand side. Pre-Season I saw Martinez moving into midfield so no idea why that didn’t happen last night, that would have solved Casemiro being isolated so often.
Watched every game. How many minutes did all 3 get together? Surprisingly little.
And you are saying this based on 1 game? Did you also think Eriksen- McT- Bruno won't work after Brentford thrashing last year?
Ha! You saved me having to say the same thing.
Leeds - 4231, Mount as the only #10, no Bruno or Casemiro, not overrun
Lyon - 4231, Mount as the only #10, no Bruno or Casemiro, not overrun
Arsenal - 4231, Mount and Mainoo at #6, Bruno as the only #10, not overrun
Real - 4231, Casemiro and Mainoo/Eriksen at #6, Mount at #10, Bruno on the right, we were overrun but not in the formation we played on Monday
Dortmund - 433, the first time Casmeiro, Mount and Bruno played in a 3, only on the pitch for 30 minutes, 65% possession, not overrun
Lens- 433, Casmeiro, Mount and Bruno played in a 3, played the full 90, 62% possession, not overrun
At RM Casemiro had Toni Kronos alongside, but mostly behind him, doing the mopping up and plugging the gaps.
It gave Casemiro the freedom to roam the CM to control and break up play, with Modric buzzing around doing what he does.
He’s now older and even when on song, has noticeably slowed down overall.
We desperately need that 2nd CM who is younger, has a physical presence and is more mobile, otherwise Casemiro is going to have many more games like this, where he’s hung out to dry.
Mount is a good player, but what is ETH trying to do with him?
He can’t do the CM defensive duties and box to box stuff, so what’s the best way to use him?
For the time being, I’d replace Antony with Mount, because the Brazilian isn’t pulling up any stumps, or looking anywhere near a £20m, never mind a £90m player.
.
It gave Casemiro the freedom to roam the CM to control and break up play, with Modric buzzing around doing what he does.
He’s now older and even when on song, has noticeably slowed down overall.
We desperately need that 2nd CM who is younger, has a physical presence and is more mobile, otherwise Casemiro is going to have many more games like this, where he’s hung out to dry.
Mount is a good player, but what is ETH trying to do with him?
He can’t do the CM defensive duties and box to box stuff, so what’s the best way to use him?
For the time being, I’d replace Antony with Mount, because the Brazilian isn’t pulling up any stumps, or looking anywhere near a £20m, never mind a £90m player.
.
Lens did it multiple times where they were running at Casemiro and defense. So to me yesterday was a continuation of what we saw against Real and Lens.
Hopefully I'm wrong and you guys are right.
If you look at Wolves' counter-attacks, there is often a situation early in the move where one of Casemiro, Mount or Fernandes could have conceded a tactical foul. This is something Mount and Fernandes are going to have to learn. Casemiro attempts tackles but doesn't always connect. City have been killing counter-attacks for years by making cynical fouls deep inside the opponent's half.
What a stupid suggestion. You don’t like a player so you make him captain
And pre-season.
Yes, I didn't think McT as DM would work. Thankfully we bought Casemrio. So I think Casemiro/Eriksen behind Bruno works fine, except Eriksens legs are gone. So was hoping we would get someone similar to Eriksen. But ETH wants 2 high AMs, which is how we played with Fred too a lot.
Again hopefully you are right and this combination works.
Thankfully, we didn't try to rely on that midfield for the rest of the season but instead bought one of the best DMs in the world afterwards. Because yeah, everyone thought that Eriksen-McT-Bruno wouldn't work.
McTominay didn't start the Brentford away game. Fred was the DM.
Bruno is petulant, it is maybe ten hags way of trying to get him to keep a cool head. There is a reason he shoe horns his so called best attacking player to the wings all the time to accommodate less talented players. He did it again last night but put him on the left. I dont get it. So this is my reason i wrote the comment.
He had martial on the bench, why not bring him on up top and put rashford on the left and leave bruno as 10?? It doesnt make sense.
Any Ajax watcher here? How is this midfield different from Alvarez - Gravenberch - Berghuis that ETH used at Ajax
I’m really, really glad people are acknowledging the woes Casemiro faces and aren’t eagerly throwing him under the bus. He’s our most important player and we’re supposed to facilitate his game and preserve him/it, not run him into an early/premature end.
Madrid did everything in their power to allow each component in their midfield to optimise when they were dominating Europe. City do the same. Point is, even the best teams at their apex play in a way that complements their personnel rather than overextends them. It’s something we need to address immediately, not just for the sake of Casemiro, but the entire midfield, and by extension, the team.
Madrid did everything in their power to allow each component in their midfield to optimise when they were dominating Europe. City do the same. Point is, even the best teams at their apex play in a way that complements their personnel rather than overextends them. It’s something we need to address immediately, not just for the sake of Casemiro, but the entire midfield, and by extension, the team.
Exactly. Yes that midfield did not work well. But you would expect our forwards to both keep the ball much better and to track back much more to help out the midfielders. It was bleedin obvious to anyone that there was a problem. Only Antony did it a few times. It was better when Eriksen came on.
The point wasn't about a player but the formation and similar players.
Ok thanks. But the point stands
Mount has played in a 2 alongside Casemiro in preseason. And Bruno has also played in a 2 alongside Casemiro at various points last season. Both #8s are clearly capable of being positionally disciplined when they need to be.
The issue is coaching, or a lack thereof.
The trio just need to practise when to make runs and when to sit back. It'll come with time and experience under the new system.
Most teams would have sat back against United at Old Trafford. Unfortunately, Wolves had the perfect gameplan. They hit us where it really hurt and exposed our weaknesses. I'm glad it happened early in the season and I'm glad it was a team as toothless as them. It gives us time to buck our ideas before we play the bigger sides.
The issue is coaching, or a lack thereof.
The trio just need to practise when to make runs and when to sit back. It'll come with time and experience under the new system.
Most teams would have sat back against United at Old Trafford. Unfortunately, Wolves had the perfect gameplan. They hit us where it really hurt and exposed our weaknesses. I'm glad it happened early in the season and I'm glad it was a team as toothless as them. It gives us time to buck our ideas before we play the bigger sides.
Eredivisie and Gravenberch can actually play in midfield. He's an 8 who could even play as a 6 (not very good in that role). Think Berghuis is relatively far more composed than Bruno as well, for that level.
Bruno is ofcourse 10x the player.
Ehm, the tactical formation? Eriksen was playing alongside Casemiro, not as an auxiliary forward like both Mount and Bruno did yesterday.
There were plenty of games early last season where I thought the second midfielder was pushed very high, leaving the deep lying player exposed to runners and with few passing options. That was happening with McT and when Cas came into the team. Same again yesterday, Mount doesn't really have the passing range to be a playmaker so we might end up with Bruno dropping in. Ok when we are chasing a game but not a strong defensive set up for transitions.
What do you mean here? I was under the impression Gravenberch and Berghuis both pushed high up, leaving Alvarez isolated just like Mount and Bruno with Casemiro
Don't think Gravenberch pushed anywhere near as high up as they did, in or out of possession.
Gravenberch was involved in buildup play. All our midfielders push up for some strange reason, it is really baffling. Our cb's are so isolated.
Also Gravenberch is no Caicedo but far more disciplined defensively than Mount and Bruno. They are better pressers though.
There is no real logic. Mount isn’t better than Bruno with creativity or as a goal scorer, so was hoping he could do the box to box role… he can’t. Neither can Bruno by the way, so having Mount as cover for Bruno is great but we need a midfielder to sit next to Casemiro who can progress the ball and show steel and positioning to stop teams walking through us with ease.
Until then we will struggle in most games regardless of opposition.
Until then we will struggle in most games regardless of opposition.
That explains it. Thanks
Nonsense. While kova is a good player, he was a bench player when they won the ucl. Their starting midfield was jorginho and kante.
I also disagree that we don't need players like Caicedo and Lavia. If we are going to play double 8s, especially mount and bruno, We absolutely need players like that. Man City have rodri, arsenal had Partey last season, and now Rice. Case legs are gone imo. We need their energy in the middle of the park.
Last edited:
I doubt any DM through out the whole of history could do what Cas is being tasked with doing, never mind him in his prime. There is no DM that will fix that issue.
Something wasn’t getting done last night tactically somewhere in the team, which is why he was exposed so much. I think I heard as well we gave the ball away 81 times last night which didn’t help. However I refuse to believe that ETH would play that way. I’m sure the idea was Shaw steps in and helps him there which he did for like 4 minutes of the first half.
Quite apart from the fact we are playing 2 number 10s in front of one holding midfielder and expecting it to work, I’m not even that clear what Casemiro’s role is meant to involve. I’d have thought his role in that structure would be 100% holding but even he seemed to often be going forwards and caught out of position.
The main concern I thought yesterday was that there was no obvious structure at all to the midfield. It wasn’t just that they all had bad games. It was that they seemed to have no real idea what they were meant to be doing.
The main concern I thought yesterday was that there was no obvious structure at all to the midfield. It wasn’t just that they all had bad games. It was that they seemed to have no real idea what they were meant to be doing.
Even if we were likely to face a lot of shit teams, it still doesn't justify going for Mount. Winning those games is not really an issue for us. Not compared to games against serious teams away from home.