The beginning of the end... (the original board vetoed Mourinho's transfer wish list thread)

I highly doubt any of them were LVG's signings. They were all opportunistic signings made by woodward when their agents presented it to him.

Based on what evidence? I am getting sick and tired of this shit now. Who needs fake media when even our own fans spout rumour and opinion as if it was fact.

One reporter writes an article from a 'source' saying the defenders weren't better than we already had. At the same time the article also states Utd never made a bid Alderweireld. Even though there were loads of 'sources' at the time saying we had. Shows you how much these 'sources' really know.

Not that this board cares, there's an 84 page thread on here about us trying to get Alderweireld, all sparked off by a source that turns out was untrue.

Can we for fecking once believe the words coming out of our managers mouth, and not the media who have been proven to be making up false stories.
 
At least someone at the club is preparing for the post-Jose era. I cant stand seeing the club always looking at these expensive 29 year olds. Targeting players with a future is 100% the correct decision unless its an exceptional case like RVP
 
I dont think Ed would lose any power, he would still be the boss. I think he would rather concentrate on contracts and the commercial side of the game.

Ed's biggest problem is his ego and lack of self awareness
When if comes to the footballing side of things he is the small fish in a big pond and he doesn't know it.
 
I highly doubt any of them were LVG's signings. They were all opportunistic signings made by woodward when their agents presented it to him.
Then why LVG didn't say so considering that he has been shitting in the club since he got sacked? Come on, the legend says that Mourinho put Schweiny - a legend of the game - to train with kids for a few weeks just because he was a LVG favorite (LVG had worked with him in the past). Not sure how true it is, but Mourinho himself said that Schweiny was treated unfairly a week or so before he was sold.
 
Woodward + Moyes = shit
Woodward + LvG = shit
Woodward + Mourinho = 2 cups, an 81 point finish and clearly heading in the right direction

The common denominator in our shit seasons was Ed.

Jose should be the one given the benefit of the doubt in transfer dealings as things stand.

A veto from somebody with a track record of poor purchases is the wrong move by the club.

If Woodward were that much of a football genius, he wouldn't have bought Di Maria or Schneiderlin. It belies logic to let him be the final word on our transfers.
Great point. Our most successful transfers has come Under Joses tenure.
Can't wait until we spend all summer post Jose chasing Mbappe and Neymar. Maybe we'll overpay for ancient Vidal and Dier to save face.
 
How many of our current first team squad are out of contract next summer? Herrera/Mata/Shaw who else?

Juan Mata
Ander Herrera
Chris Smalling
Phil Jones
Luke Shaw
Ashley Young
Matteo Darmian - 1 year option
Antonio Valencia - 1 year option
David de Gea - 1 year option
Anthony Martial - 1 year option
Andreas Pereira - 1 year option (both parties)
 
Woodward is full of shit, he said we can do deals other clubs can dream up yet lets PSG get both Neymar and Mbappe in the same transfer window

Did he say that before or after the PSG signings? Because I'll admit I did not see that Neymar signing happening couple months prior.
 
What the feck are you talking about
Willan is an actual RW...when last have we had a RW?

You are the one being fooled

So we going to stunt the development of Martial/Rashford who have more potential than Willian? You are acting as if Willian is some amazing player. Is he world class in his position? Even top 5 in the world? No. Why add someone who is not the best in his position? If your reply is we don't need to sign the best players in the world in every position, then you are wrong. PSG spent £200m on Neymar and £100m of Mbappe. They don't have more money than Man utd, but these investments are put over years and not in one year.
 
How many of our current first team squad are out of contract next summer? Herrera/Mata/Shaw who else?

Thats not the only thing that you have to worry about
When we dont win anything...again you think Pogba and DDG are going to want to stick around?

Good luck replacing them
 
So we going to stunt the development of Martial/Rashford who have more potential than Willian? You are acting as if Willian is some amazing player. Is he world class in his position? Even top 5 in the world? No. Why add someone who is not the best in his position? If your reply is we don't need to sign the best players in the world in every position, then you are wrong. PSG spent £200m on Neymar and £100m of Mbappe. They don't have more money than Man utd, but these investments are put over years and not in one year.

Because he is an actual right winger...if not willan but I dont care, just buy a goddam winger...we have ZERO wingers
 
The club backing van Gaal and not the man they appointed to clean up the mess he and Moyes left behind makes no sense. Yeah ok, Jose’s bought some players but ffs van Gaal in two summers damn near purchased an entirely new team. Mourinho’s come in here, with most of those leftover players, won the Europa League, a league cup, finished second and gotten to another cup final.

Not being able to shift these players isn’t the managers fault. Them being on huge wages isn’t his fault either. The club telling him he needs to win with leftover husks of players from previous regimes or players who just are plain not good enough is equal parts ridiculous and infuriating.

If they chase one of the most successful managers of all time out of this club because of these bullshit, piss weak excuses that have been coming out, what would even be the point? The people making that decision would show just how dreadful they are at their jobs and that this club is, in fact, absolutely leaderless.
 
My feeling is that when Jose was hired, the idea was to build for the long term, for Mourinho to do what he hasn't done before and do something new at United, because what a better club for him to do it in than to follow Sir Alex. But, because of how the 2 seasons have gone and with Pep and City I think Mourinho's defaulted to standard and wants the short term win again rather than thinking long term, and that's why I think plans have changed and why the board have done this for the people who say "Well why hire Mourinho then".

Personally i am on their side with it, I couldn't stand the thought of Mourinho's obvious transfer wishlist that most players on would have to be replaced in a couple years, for inflated fees and wages. He signed Bailly and Lindelof yet apparently wants another CB, how about getting the best out of these players, hell has he even played them together yet!? We have some brilliant players on this squad and yet he can't get them singing a tune, he just wants more money to be thrown at it till hopefully something sticks and it's a joke quite frankly. The board were happy enough to appease him by breaking their rule and giving Fellaini an extended contract on no doubt better wages and nobody probably wanted him there but Mourinho, they didn't veto Fred or Dalot because those are sound investments for the club overall.

This could actually also be a result of whats happened previous, Woodward clearly allowed the likes of LVG to sign whoever he wanted and it's cost the club big time, perhaps he's wisened up to this and doesn't want to make the same mistake. I'm by no means absolving the club of any blame in this whole situation and they are a big part of the situation we are in, but we've outspent the big teams for the last 5 years, all apart from City who have a bottomless pit and we don't, I cannot blame them for wanting to be a bit more frugal and instead wanting the manager to actually coach the players he has, including the 8 or so he bought himself.
 
Found a piece in the Guardian. Mindblowing stuff altogether.



THEN WHY DID YOU HIRE THE MISERABLE TWAT, YOU GOGGLE EYED DIPSHIT?!?

*and breath*

Obviously hope it’s all paper talk but why in the hell is Woodward even allowed an opinion on who to sign? Or are there other, actual football people, in the mix here? Sir Bob?!


Well this fecking sucks and I completely agree with you, also if theres no long term replacement available, you have to go with a short term one, we’re behind city so we need to catch up asap, if that means a short term fix then so be it until theres a valid long term replacement available.
If they think that Toby, Sandro and Maguire aren’t improvements on the unreliable shite we have now then we best give up.

Seems just bizarre.

So the board said 100 million for Varane or no one else? I get that Varane is a fantastic player but in what world is Alderwield not even close?
We really need new blood for some positive today. If we don't win tomorrow the knives are going to be out. Jose now has the fans on his side .


Exactly, Toby would have been our best defender if he had joined.

These people and the media are saying this is classic Jose 3rd season meltdown are completely wrong, you either back the man or you don’t, Varane wasn’t available so why even bring his name up, really pissed off with the club over this, fecking stupid way to do things, I wouldn’t blame Jose if he walks (which I doubt, due to the £££), if Messi isn’t available, you don’t just say feck it its him or nobody especially when there’s plenty of players that would’ve improved us.

The club is proper fecked.


They're wrong about Mcguire.

Who?
 
We have to accept that while we have a lot of money, we don't have an endless supply like some other clubs. I'm happy the board is moving away from short term signings which are unsustainable. It's not just about the transfer fees, the massive wages keep going up and those players become difficult to move on if their form declines.

Hopefully we get in a DoF to take over long term transfer planning. Someone that understands the club.
 
I agree about a long term policy for this club however it's all an issue

You can't hire Jose, get him 7 out of his 8 targets in the first two season's, see him improve to second, whilst also giving him a contract extension and then coming out with this. It's a total contradiction.

We all knew what Jose would bring and what he would want to bring himself. To only really get one first team starter and to veto his list of players is a crazy approach so late into the window.

Theres every chance the same cycle repeats with a next manager.
 
Are you making a serious argument that Toby isn't better than Jones/Smalling/Rojo?
My grandma is better than Jones/Smalling.

Toby is 3rd choice at Tottenham and is arguably not better than Bailly. He isn't world class level like Godin for example, so why settle for less? Didn't that get us in this position in the first place?
 
So we going to stunt the development of Martial/Rashford who have more potential than Willian? You are acting as if Willian is some amazing player. Is he world class in his position? Even top 5 in the world? No. Why add someone who is not the best in his position? If your reply is we don't need to sign the best players in the world in every position, then you are wrong. PSG spent £200m on Neymar and £100m of Mbappe. They don't have more money than Man utd, but these investments are put over years and not in one year.

Yes they do. Not many clubs do, granted, but PSG do. We cannot match those Neymar-level signings, which are effectively funded directly by the nation state of Qatar.
 
I've read the forums for over a decade and never really felt the urge to post but the nonsense being thrown about over the past few weeks is almost too much to handle. It's great that you're all passionate about Utd but why is all reasoning being lobbed out of the nearest window?

Firstly, people are posting as if it's fact that Jose actively wanted to sell Pogba and the club opposed him? None of these "beginning of the end" articles state this.

Secondly, the board have vetoed Jose? Right. Half the players listed are said to have been offered to Utd. Does that sound like we were going after them specifically on Jose's instruction? Not to me.

And what of those players? Boateng it seems was deemed fit to be taken on loan, Godin deemed great but unfortunately just wanted a new contract and finally, Mina was also acceptable bar issues with his agent....

This is not fact but in the very article that apparently shows how the board are 100% in opposition to Jose haha! To top it all, apparently Maguire was fine too had Leicester played ball. So exactly where have the board gone against anything? One player?! Wow. Big news. And this coming from the press who have been trying their best to convince us up until a few hours ago, that we definitely were bidding for that player.

So who to believe?! Nevermind that, this must be rock solid...even though it makes no sense whatsoever true or otherwise since the conclusion drawn from it is bollocks. Not to mention that most people on here would grossly disagree with the idea that Alderwereild would not improve us, so the problem there it seems is with the boards view, not Jose's.

Now for short termism. How is buying Dalot and Fred short term? Lindelof, Bailly, Pogba, Lukaku, Fred? It's laughable. And then people post saying 'but Pogba was benched!!!' So what? Just because he's a record signing, doesn't mean he should be playing every single match regardless of performance. That's not the full story of course not, but just an example of the hilarity on this forum at the moment. Either way, Jose is not signing a bunch of old players so let's just stop entertaining that idea please. It's clearly false.

Finally, think of this. 7th in the league, Moyes...no Champions League and no trophies. Major names in, and then quickly out again after playing terribly week in, week out. Then, we finish an awful era with an FA Cup, follow that up with the League Cup and the Europa League, then make the knockout stages of the Champions League, the FA Cup Final and finish second behind a record breaking team.

We beat every top team in the premiership and end up higher than the incredible, legendary, beacons of all things right, true and entertaining; Spurs and Liverpool. So why the meltdown?

Ok so we haven't won the league in five years and we haven't won the Champions League in a decade. Not to mention the football isn't setting the world on fire. But surely anybody can see that we are somewhat back on track? That we are building? Why all the 'time's up! Out! Time to find another!'?

Don't we hate clubs who chop and change every couple of minutes? We're not like that are we? Perhaps you don't like the football style or the manager. Maybe just the way he conducts himself but dear god, in no way whatsoever are we in crisis. So it's time to stop feeding that delusion and put things into perspective.
 
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What did Ed expect when he hired Jose? To buy top quality potential youth and build a team for the future?


Well they did go along with it for 2 years and we are no closer to winning the title. Year 3 is traditionally very close to the end of the Jose experience, so I dont blame the club for not being excited about investing even more heavily in what hasnt worked for the last 2 years
 
Then why LVG didn't say so considering that he has been shitting in the club since he got sacked? Come on, the legend says that Mourinho put Schweiny - a legend of the game - to train with kids for a few weeks just because he was a LVG favorite (LVG had worked with him in the past). Not sure how true it is, but Mourinho himself said that Schweiny was treated unfairly a week or so before he was sold.
LVG wouldn't know who Morgan was, I don't care what anyone says.
Im dubious about that first season, I can't believe he was scouting for players while preparing to go deep in the WC.
 
Then why LVG didn't say so considering that he has been shitting in the club since he got sacked? Come on, the legend says that Mourinho put Schweiny - a legend of the game - to train with kids for a few weeks just because he was a LVG favorite (LVG had worked with him in the past). Not sure how true it is, but Mourinho himself said that Schweiny was treated unfairly a week or so before he was sold.

Actually he did, not that I love or defend him or anything, I hate the man, but he did said Ed didn't fully get him what he wanted, whether that's true or not is something else.

https://metro.co.uk/2018/05/30/loui...y-manchester-united-transfer-targets-7589702/
 
He has said and alluded to that more than once before PSG bought them, he likes to swing his big dick around

So just repeating the question, did he say it after PSG made those signings? Have any links because that would add more fuel to his own incompetence.

Although most likely his job is to promote United commercially so most likely he was just talking the club up in a competitive market.
 
I didn't read any other post or articles but the title. My question is who decided to vetoed Mourinho's wishlist. Ed? Who advised him to do so? Or him doing on his own?
 
Juan Mata
Ander Herrera
Chris Smalling
Phil Jones
Luke Shaw
Ashley Young
Matteo Darmian - 1 year option
Antonio Valencia - 1 year option
David de Gea - 1 year option
Anthony Martial - 1 year option
Andreas Pereira - 1 year option (both parties)

Amazing.

Does Woodward plan to replace half of the squad next summer with 5 Varane esque signings?
 
My grandma is better than Jones/Smalling.

Toby is 3rd choice at Tottenham and is arguably not better than Bailly. He isn't world class level like Godin for example, so why settle for less? Didn't that get us in this position in the first place?

So you dont think Baily and Toby would have made a great CB partnership and when Baily goes half of the season like he usually does maybe our defense wouldnt fall apart
 
Why is everyone so obsessed with age?
Bailly, Lindelof, Pogba, Fred, Dalot and Lukaku have all been signed by Mourinho at 25 years or younger.
Matic, Sanchez and Mhikityrian at 26-30 years.
Is this one of those things where if we keep repeating how old everyone is we can pretend we're right and pat ourselves on the back for our foresight?
 
How can people say this and then don't ask why:

1) Mourinho spent 70-80m on Bailly and Lindeloff but it was Smalling and Jones starting when they were fit.
2) Pogba was all time world record but at some stage last season he was getting benched.
3) Mourinho signed Mkhitaryan as our No.10 then consistently criticized him and eventually put him outside of the entire squad for a few matches.
4) Gave a new contract to Fellaini.
5) Sanchez played like crap when he joined us.

If LVG signed crap, then so did Mourinho. And when in the starting XI we already have 4 players at age 29 or above (5 if you consider Mata in our starting XI, 6 if you count Smalling who has birthday on November) how wise is to sign another 2. Especially if they cost (if rumors are to be believed) a shitload amount of money. So, sign Willian and Alder for circa 150m, and suddenly have 7 players in the starting eleven aged 29 or more. On other words, prepare another total revamp in the next 3 years without first finishing the current one.

Jose's signings are not as bad as you make them out to be. Let's look at them in no particular order.

1) Bailey was injured all season otherwise he would have been a starter like he was previous seasons.

2) Lindeloff is adjusting to a new league but shows talent.

3) Mhiki did not turn out and a was sold.

4) Pogba been ok so far should be better he will be fine long term.

5) Lukaku fantastic.

6) Matic fantastic.

7) Sanchez no good so far but should have a good season ahead.
 
Not that different from the clubs perspective mate if these rumours are anyway true.

Having an older experienced centre back is all well and good, and i agree Mourinho has usually had one. But if thats such an important part of Mourinho's philosophy then he probably should have signed one instead of Bailly and/or Lindelof. And maybe not opted to add older players like Matic and Sanchez in other areas to an already aging side.

Having a side with 7 players approaching or already over 30 would make me and possibly some at the club very nervous. When your team has that sort of age profile you are only ever one summer and managerial change away from basically having to start from scratch again team building wise. Thats what happened in 2013, too many of the key players were too old and needed replaced in a very short space of time. Ferguson had let the side age i suspect because he knew was winding down and because he had wanted his predecessor to be able to build his own side.

But United as a club need to have a strategy that is longer term and in place regardless of who the manager currently is. Having a few experienced players is always beneficial and sometimes necessary. but there has to be a balance in my opinion. We should never be in a position where we need to replace more than 2-3 key players in any summer window.

Think there's a reason why we didn't go with a more experienced CB last Summer. Maybe Jose still thought Smalling or Jones might come good, maybe we didn't have enough funds to address all issues in the team - we needed a striker more than a CB. Maybe the experienced options weren't available last summer. We got Bailly who is very good but still young and Lindelof wasn't brought as a first teamer, but as a rotational option IMO.

Milan played 2 CL finals 10 years ago with a team that was average age 30 or more.

The times are different and top players age better IMO. For what it was 29 years before now you could easily be on the top of your game at 32-33. Just look at Real and Barca's teams.

This year Real won the CL with not a single player below 25 in the final. 6 of the players were 30 or more.

Jose is a manager who if you need to win things on short manner you'd need experienced players that are on the peak of their game or have the experience at the highest level. It isn't really strange either. Why would you hire a manager with great credentials and then veto more than half of the players on his wish list?

You either sack him or just try to get the players he wants. At the end you do neither.

If you look at the signings that we made since Fergie stepped down it's more likely to lose more money in the long run buying the dross that "fit the age profile" like Darmian, Depay, Shaw, Herrera, Rojo, Fellaini and all the other crap that we can't even move, evidenced this season with Darmian and Rojo.

Really speechless how the board handled the situation. We never had such charades under Gill.
 
Thing is it was coming. Jose has directed the vitriol of the fans towards the direction of 'Mr Woodward' all summer and I doubt he wasn't aware what he was doing. They've been on course for a collision. Many could predict the club would begin telling its own side once the window closed

Nevertheless it's a pretty dumb thing to do, could potentially railroad our season before it has even begun.

He could of put that story out whenever Jose leaves to set the record straight.
 
My grandma is better than Jones/Smalling.

Toby is 3rd choice at Tottenham and is arguably not better than Bailly. He isn't world class level like Godin for example, so why settle for less? Didn't that get us in this position in the first place?

He's been the best defender in the league for the past 2/3 seasons and only been relegated to 2nd choice after an injury and refusing to sign a new deal. He's also 3 years younger than Godin.
 
Ed's biggest problem is his ego and lack of self awareness
When if comes to the footballing side of things he is the small fish in a big pond and he doesn't know it.

I really dont see how you can make a statement like that. The man is probably one of the least visible figure heads in the game and rarely does interviews. I think you have formed an opinion of him because of his internet meme persona and are basing your argument on that.

My issue with Ed is that he should back his manager when its clear there is a large gap between last years champions and runners up!
 
Well they did go along with it for 2 years and we are no closer to winning the title. Year 3 is traditionally very close to the end of the Jose experience, so I dont blame the club for not being excited about investing even more heavily in what hasnt worked for the last 2 years

Then give him the flick and get someone else in. Plain and simple.
 
We have to accept that while we have a lot of money, we don't have an endless supply like some other clubs. I'm happy the board is moving away from short term signings which are unsustainable. It's not just about the transfer fees, the massive wages keep going up and those players become difficult to move on if their form declines.

Hopefully we get in a DoF to take over long term transfer planning. Someone that understands the club.
And what happens if the board doesn't agree with the DOF 2 seasons in?
Our board can't even get a managerial appointment correct.
 
What the feck are you talking about
Willan is an actual RW...when last have we had a RW?

and are you seriously saying Toby isnt better than Jones, Smalling or Rojo?

You are the one being fooled
I for one agree that Toby is definitely not that much better than Bailly or even Jones. Varane, he was a pure leader in the France defense, yes. An experienced defender like Bonucci, yeah. But Toby? What the hell... I think some people have started overvaluing Spurs' players because they started being included in the top 4 regularly and that is fair, some of their players are interesting. But Toby Alderweireld? I can't really see that with him. I mean he's brave and all but he's not that much better than Jones. Granted, he may anticipate slightly better on some defensive phases but his game is still very reactive. We need smarter defenders, not brave warriors only (we like them too, but you need a Rio for every a Vidic).
 
Think there's a reason why we didn't go with a more experienced CB last Summer. Maybe Jose still thought Smalling or Jones might come good, maybe we didn't have enough funds to address all issues in the team - we needed a striker more than a CB. Maybe the experienced options weren't available last summer. We got Bailly who is very good but still young and Lindelof wasn't brought as a first teamer, but as a rotational option IMO.

Milan played 2 CL finals 10 years ago with a team that was average age 30 or more.

The times are different and top players age better IMO. For what it was 29 years before now you could easily be on the top of your game at 32-33. Just look at Real and Barca's teams.

This year Real won the CL with not a single player below 25 in the final. 6 of the players were 30 or more.

Jose is a manager who if you need to win things on short manner you'd need experienced players that are on the peak of their game or have the experience at the highest level. It isn't really strange either. Why would you hire a manager with great credentials and then veto more than half of the players on his wish list?

You either sack him or just try to get the players he wants. At the end you do neither.

If you look at the signings that we made since Fergie stepped down it's more likely to lose more money in the long run buying the dross that "fit the age profile" like Darmian, Depay, Shaw, Herrera, Rojo, Fellaini and all the other crap that we can't even move, evidenced this season with Darmian and Rojo.

Really speechless how the board handled the situation. We never had such charades under Gill.

Bring him and that old Scottish fella back please.
 
How can people say this and then don't ask why:

1) Mourinho spent 70-80m on Bailly and Lindeloff but it was Smalling and Jones starting when they were fit.
2) Pogba was all time world record but at some stage last season he was getting benched.
3) Mourinho signed Mkhitaryan as our No.10 then consistently criticized him and eventually put him outside of the entire squad for a few matches.
4) Gave a new contract to Fellaini.
5) Sanchez played like crap when he joined us.

If LVG signed crap, then so did Mourinho. And when in the starting XI we already have 4 players at age 29 or above (5 if you consider Mata in our starting XI, 6 if you count Smalling who has birthday on November) how wise is to sign another 2. Especially if they cost (if rumors are to be believed) a shitload amount of money. So, sign Willian and Alder for circa 150m, and suddenly have 7 players in the starting eleven aged 29 or more. On other words, prepare another total revamp in the next 3 years without first finishing the current one.

1) Bailly and Lindelof are both here and have been afforded time. Bailly got injured and Jose implemented a consistent back line with what was available. Lindelof looked like he needed time to acclimatize to the league. Jury still out on both but promising signs from both recently.
2) Pogba was temporarily benched to send a message. Nothing we haven't seen before, especially with underperforming talents.
3) Jose to blame. Should have done his homework, Mkhitaryan wasnt cut out for it.
4) Nothing wrong with it, especially when the alternative is to lose him for nothing.
5) As do most players in their first season at a new club. He wasn't my pick of the players I'd sign, but I'm not going to write him off just yet. There's a level of expectation because he's already proven what he can do in this league.

It's worth pointing out that no manager has 100% success rate, or even close, with transfers. The problem here is that we're playing catch up and people almost expect the impossible, whilst scrutinising All we can do is eliminate as much uncertainty with players whilst we play catch up, hence going for a lot of proven PL players, whilst some of our supposed world class talents come good (Rashford, Martial, Lindelof, Bailly etc.).
 
Do you lot remember when Sir Alex used to say the manager must be the most important person at a football club? Those were the days...

Could you imagine if Woodward has started telling Fergie about who he could sign? "Sorry Alex but Robin is 29 with no resale value".

We are doomed as a club with Woodward acting as a DOF.