Who knows who was genuine targets and who wasn't but iirc LVG wanted both Vidal and Mane did he not?
The beginning of the end... (the original board vetoed Mourinho's transfer wish list thread)
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Who knows who was genuine targets and who wasn't but iirc LVG wanted both Vidal and Mane did he not?
We're competing against a City team that have Mahrez and Bernardo Silva as backups (both of which are better than most of our attackers) with De Bruyne and Silva in midfield.
There's never been a coach who could get Lingard, Rashford et al to perform to that level. We needed reinforcements and if Mourinho isn't trusted then he shouldn't be here.
I sort of don’t understand where the whole toxicity ahead of this season is coming from. I can’t figure out what started this - was it Mourinho who wanted to spend more and more money and got frustrated that he doesn’t get to or did our board already lose their trust in him before the Summer started?
There’s something wrong at the club right now and it’s easy to feel it. Very little excitement ahead of season, plenty of complaints and accusations thrown around. This is all heading towards Mourinho’s exit but it’s strange this time, it’s nothing like it was in his third season at Chelsea (second stint) or Real where you could clearly tell what went on.
There’s something wrong at the club right now and it’s easy to feel it. Very little excitement ahead of season, plenty of complaints and accusations thrown around. This is all heading towards Mourinho’s exit but it’s strange this time, it’s nothing like it was in his third season at Chelsea (second stint) or Real where you could clearly tell what went on.
Leaks were happening before Mourinho too. It was the same during van Gaal and Moyes days.
Which member of the board is qualified to provide credible challenge on any footballing decision Mourinho makes? Their job is to provide direction and help set strategy at an organizational level. Not to get involved in low-level footballing decisions like opining on transfer targets.
Have you read the article? If you have you wouldn't ask this question.
Seems just bizarre.
So the board said 100 million for Varane or no one else? I get that Varane is a fantastic player but in what world is Alderwield not even close?
We really need new blood for some positive today. If we don't win tomorrow the knives are going to be out. Jose now has the fans on his side .
So the board said 100 million for Varane or no one else? I get that Varane is a fantastic player but in what world is Alderwield not even close?
We really need new blood for some positive today. If we don't win tomorrow the knives are going to be out. Jose now has the fans on his side .
They're right.
Not just a briefing, but this is very clearly how we have conducted our transfer business since Woodward has been in charge. It is nothing new at all. We pay big money for players who sell shirts, not for players who a manager puts above another on a list. Then stuff like this seems to come out after every transfer window. Usuallly with some nonsense about us being open to a move for Ronaldo thrown in.
It is now being used to paint an agenda that either isn't there, or again, isn't anything remotely new. As if Jose somehow wouldn't have been aware of all this until it appears in the papers...despite the fact he's been openly moaning about it all bloody summer, as he did last year. Do people think when him and Woodward have their briefings they just sit around playing thumb wars rather than discussing this sort of thing?
It's no secret at all he doesn't favour Martial either. We've seen these Martial stories a thousand times before, yet he will still appear in the team if he is needed or if he performs well enough to be there. Probably because the situation is just not nearly as dramatic as everyone wants it to be.
I suspect tomorrow you will get nothing from Mourinho apart from excuses if we don't win, or moaning about the media if we do. Becaue this is what happens after every game.
I think what people are doing is the same they do every year, in underestimating how little sense Woodward actually has when it comes to running the football side of a football club. It is unhelpful feeding the press stuff like this, or conducting your transfer business the way we do, but he's done it every single time. He clearly things it's the best way to go about his business and justfy his decisions, and I really don't think there is an agenda beyond that. If there is then I'm lost as to what it is, because it isn't nything specific to Mourinho.
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It doesn't really matter. If Woodward thinks Toby isn't better than our CB choices he knows feck all about football.
Duncan Castles ain’t written up this story. I expect his version to be quite different when it does come too.
Yep. They knew what they were getting when they hired him, and when they extended his contract in January. Signings who might actually play this year are 19 and 25. Was everyone else on his list 32?
The 'hierarchy' are apparently idiots.
How does this relate to my post?
Looks to me like the board and ed have had enough of jose and are probably trying to force his hand and make him walk at some stage during the season. Otherwise thus while window and this briefing to the media on the eve of our opening game makes no sense. Hopefully come Saturday we will be discussing a good result and performance by a strong enough squad.. does seem to have shades of Jose's exit seasons elsewhere though. Very toxic around club at moment.
What is probable with these stories is that there has been some sort of source who has explained to the press that United targeted several players. I can easily imagine them trying to put a positive spin on this, as several of the names mentioned are absolutely world-class players who were never realistic targets in the first place.
Once the press has received this information, and it could have come from absolutely anyone, they then fill in the gaps and put their own spin on the story. No-one can then react to or deny this, as the club can't be seen to be responding to media speculation.
You might think that this would damage the relationship between United and the media, but ultimately if they give the press nothing then they can just make stuff up anyway. Which indeed could have happened on this occasion, or the original source might not be remotely reliable.
What I would highly doubt is that someone in an elevated position at United has sh*t on the manager 24 hours before the season starts, when he will definitely be the manager for the foreseeable future, and if he isn't the manager for the entirety of the season then it will inevitably have been a disastrous season. I can't believe that anyone would be allowed to effectively jeopardise an entire season just so that they could get their side of the story out.
Far more likely is that the press has received certain details and considerably embroidered them.
Once the press has received this information, and it could have come from absolutely anyone, they then fill in the gaps and put their own spin on the story. No-one can then react to or deny this, as the club can't be seen to be responding to media speculation.
You might think that this would damage the relationship between United and the media, but ultimately if they give the press nothing then they can just make stuff up anyway. Which indeed could have happened on this occasion, or the original source might not be remotely reliable.
What I would highly doubt is that someone in an elevated position at United has sh*t on the manager 24 hours before the season starts, when he will definitely be the manager for the foreseeable future, and if he isn't the manager for the entirety of the season then it will inevitably have been a disastrous season. I can't believe that anyone would be allowed to effectively jeopardise an entire season just so that they could get their side of the story out.
Far more likely is that the press has received certain details and considerably embroidered them.
It's not shaping up to be a good season definitely.
I'm a firm believer that managers should never complain about transfers. It just serves no purpose other than blaming the club. How can the team fight for the title if the manager thinks we're in for a difficult season?
Woody briefing the press is just as annoying even though i agree that we need to stop overpaying for short term fixes. It confirms to everyone that they don't share mourinho's vision, and you can bet your life that this will impact the players.
A club can be successful only when there's a united front and disagreements are discussed privately. I'm pretty sure that Fergie didn't always get what wanted, but he never complained about it, and this is not only got us through the glazers take over, it resulted in one of the most successful eras in the history of the club.
I remember the summer of 2006 when we only bought Carrick, it was really disappointing but Fergie was adamant that we can compete. I wish mourinho had the same attitude.
I'm a firm believer that managers should never complain about transfers. It just serves no purpose other than blaming the club. How can the team fight for the title if the manager thinks we're in for a difficult season?
Woody briefing the press is just as annoying even though i agree that we need to stop overpaying for short term fixes. It confirms to everyone that they don't share mourinho's vision, and you can bet your life that this will impact the players.
A club can be successful only when there's a united front and disagreements are discussed privately. I'm pretty sure that Fergie didn't always get what wanted, but he never complained about it, and this is not only got us through the glazers take over, it resulted in one of the most successful eras in the history of the club.
I remember the summer of 2006 when we only bought Carrick, it was really disappointing but Fergie was adamant that we can compete. I wish mourinho had the same attitude.
This same article has been linked with the exact same words on various outlets: BBC, guardian, independent, telegraph amongst others.
In short the club did not want to overspend on Jose targets and Maguire (which seems the club was willing to get) seemed impossible as Lei did not want to sell, the most worrying part is that, although I agree with the club stance, they did not back the manager and are viewing him and his targets as short term fix. They did not want to sell Martial as they see him long term but with Jose reluctant to play him what is the use then? I guess this will be Jose last season, hopefully it will end well and not in a disaster!
In short the club did not want to overspend on Jose targets and Maguire (which seems the club was willing to get) seemed impossible as Lei did not want to sell, the most worrying part is that, although I agree with the club stance, they did not back the manager and are viewing him and his targets as short term fix. They did not want to sell Martial as they see him long term but with Jose reluctant to play him what is the use then? I guess this will be Jose last season, hopefully it will end well and not in a disaster!
Yeah that's a very good point and actually something that bothers me a lot, the fact that we let players like for example Dybala, Maguire, Škriniar go for incredibly cheap fees to other clubs, and then we want them when they all cost 70-100m, our scouting network and ability to target the right players have become a joke over the last years. How come all these clubs across europe find these hidden gems for prices like 17-25 m while we spunk out incredibly high fees on big name players? The club is doing a terrible job when it comes to transfers imo. The fact that fecking Leicster get Maguire for 17m from Hull and we go in for him when his price has gone through the roof is a big red flag for me, we need a director of football badly imo.
Absolute bullshit from Woodward.
What about the left back?
What about the winger?
Ed Woodward is not the director of football ffs.
He is an absolute clown. 3 managers under his watch don't forget.
But he's doing a good job because it's the job he is asked to do by the owners. Sickening stuff to be honest.
What about the left back?
What about the winger?
Ed Woodward is not the director of football ffs.
He is an absolute clown. 3 managers under his watch don't forget.
But he's doing a good job because it's the job he is asked to do by the owners. Sickening stuff to be honest.
Yeah, my bad. Problem solved.Except Dalot
It's laughable that Woodward leaks he wanted to pay 100m for Varane, he should hire Wenger as our next manager and they can talk about all the players they nearly signed.
The Glazers are parasites who are content with top 4, they have no intention to compete with City.
How many leagues and champions leagues has Woodward won? Toby would have been a huge addition.
The Glazers are parasites who are content with top 4, they have no intention to compete with City.
How many leagues and champions leagues has Woodward won? Toby would have been a huge addition.
They got conned good and proper
All that noise and 'leaks' about PSG probably got Ed in a panic, who probably didn't want to start shopping for a new manager.He should have been more clever though as Jose did the exact same thing in his last season at Chelsea.
Obviously, I'm reluctant to delve too deep into this discussion without proof that the article is genuine, but if there is a shred of evidence suggesting that Woody and the board are refusing to both buy the players Jose has requested and sell the ones he deems surplus to requirements, then they are blatantly undermining his management of the club. To think that people of little to no footballing background such as the Glazers and Woody believing they know better than a manager of Jose Mourinho's experience is quite frankly shocking.
It stinks of a deeper issue with Jose and the board. Maybe they are attempting to get him to walk, and if that is the case then Jose should do just that.
It's all conjecture at this point though. None of us truly know what is going on.
It's exactly like his third season (second stint) at Chelsea, that also was preceded by a poor pre-season and an inadequate transfer window.
Only thing left is for Mourinho to have a fit at one of the fitness coaches tomorrow evening
It is what I said yesterday in the tweet thread, the Glazers are not tightening the purse strings they just want to see the players we have bought utilized.
Lindelof and Bailly should be our cb pairing. Let Lindelof have a run of games, no good throwing him under the bus after one game and not playing him again for 6 months.
Tell the manager he needs to work harder to make the best of Martial and Shaw etc.
Lindelof and Bailly should be our cb pairing. Let Lindelof have a run of games, no good throwing him under the bus after one game and not playing him again for 6 months.
Tell the manager he needs to work harder to make the best of Martial and Shaw etc.
Woodward is a clown largely due to the manager choices but he can't sign players the manager doesn't want. Mourinho was dead set on signing a centre half which would have cost a tonne of money.
Can the every player over 30 is 50 year old crowd shut up now?
So they sanction the purchase of a CB of his liking because of the age, resale value, whatever, but at the same time they ignore and don't impose upon him a purchase of a left-back/right winger even though it's a glaring deficiency in the squad?
Makes sense, forward thinking as feck.
Makes sense, forward thinking as feck.
There weren't any serious signs that he did. Mourinho couldn't have made it clearer in February that he wasn't after any attacking signings in the summer, Mourinho himself said Young could play 50+ games next season and Shaw said Mourinho sent him positive texts over summer about his chances next season.
The suggestion of short-term planning also makes me laugh.
Bailly and Lindelof are the ongoing projects. Alderweireld is possibly the best centre-half in the league and World Class. We could have three or four years of him at his peak while the other two fully develop. They could even play in a back three together.
Other clubs buy players and sell them soon after all the time, in any event. That’s the nature of transfers. They don’t all work out. And perhaps it’s the scouts who recommended Bailly and Lindelof - what then?
Imagine if the board were told you appointment Moyes so you need to make it work. You’re not getting to bring in a new manager.
Bailly and Lindelof are the ongoing projects. Alderweireld is possibly the best centre-half in the league and World Class. We could have three or four years of him at his peak while the other two fully develop. They could even play in a back three together.
Other clubs buy players and sell them soon after all the time, in any event. That’s the nature of transfers. They don’t all work out. And perhaps it’s the scouts who recommended Bailly and Lindelof - what then?
Imagine if the board were told you appointment Moyes so you need to make it work. You’re not getting to bring in a new manager.
Sounds stupid to me. I mean, is Maguire a short term approach? This is just wrong on so many levels really, if true.
I mean, first of all, why stick with a manager if you're not going to back him? When you get to that stage in your head, then surely it's time to let him go. Secondly, why should Ed Woodward and his cronies decide who is the correct player for us? They know less about actual football than your average football fan. They've probably never kicked a ball. Another option would have been to bring in a DoF, but hey, maybe I'm just stupid. None of this makes sense to me, so for that reason I'm saying this is probably bollocks.
If Jose is sacked tomorrow then it will make a bit more sense, but if our board was getting to this point, then why wait all fecking summer to decide this. They've also bought 2 of his players.
What I will say is that I see a lot of posters backing this move, but this is a seriously worrying development if true.
I mean, first of all, why stick with a manager if you're not going to back him? When you get to that stage in your head, then surely it's time to let him go. Secondly, why should Ed Woodward and his cronies decide who is the correct player for us? They know less about actual football than your average football fan. They've probably never kicked a ball. Another option would have been to bring in a DoF, but hey, maybe I'm just stupid. None of this makes sense to me, so for that reason I'm saying this is probably bollocks.
If Jose is sacked tomorrow then it will make a bit more sense, but if our board was getting to this point, then why wait all fecking summer to decide this. They've also bought 2 of his players.
What I will say is that I see a lot of posters backing this move, but this is a seriously worrying development if true.
They're wrong about Mcguire.
Err yes it is. What planet do you live in?
First of all vast majority of managers out there don’t even get to pick players at all, they get picked by the board. You think Lopetegui at Real tells Florentino who to buy? Pull another one.
Secondly even if the players listen to managers to an extent they can disagree and block them when the deal makes no financial sense. Happens routinely. Spending exorbitant fees for over 30s is a classic no-no for boards unless the player in question is Ronaldo-Messi. That same fee might be available for a 25yo.
Not for me mate, i think it's far too many players who could go over the hill at the same time and would need replaced in a short timeframe. 2 thirds of the team around 30 and no players under 25.
I tend to agree with Fergusons general philosophy on team building he explained in one of his books. It was always the goal to have the team in a position that it could evolve gradually, and age was a big part of his philosophy. Moving on a few players each summer to be replace by younger ones.
So i can't remember it exactly but it was something like only ever having 2-3 players around 30 in your first team, never more than 2-3 around 20 and the rest somewhere in between was basically the gist of it.
Not having a go for Lenglet and Malcom was baffling
I don't really believe anything in the press anymore. It's clearly agenda based and full of double standards. We are in the clickbait era, are the biggest club by far and the public is full of people gullible enough to believe everything they read and desperately want to read big things about United. The manager is an easy target and disliked intensely so that's easy. Look at that Witsel and Boateng stuff. Boateng was (more than likely) offered to us, we asked for a loan, they wanted 50m so we said no so the spin is "Boateng rejects United due to style of play/ knows they are a sinking ship/insert hyperbole here" or Witsel (who's already agreed to join Dortmund) "rejects United" which he didn't since we never had any interest.
We spend a lot of money and get criticized for not using our youth and players (they deem crap) then we don't spend and are criticized for the exact opposite. I swear if we start attacking and scoring for fun we'll be criticized for not being defensive enough.
The truth is probably in the middle. That's generally the way I view things.
We spend a lot of money and get criticized for not using our youth and players (they deem crap) then we don't spend and are criticized for the exact opposite. I swear if we start attacking and scoring for fun we'll be criticized for not being defensive enough.
The truth is probably in the middle. That's generally the way I view things.
I think the headlines are distorting things a little. Perhaps the original list comprised the top tier talents - Varane, Umtiti, Skriniar, Koulibaly, players who couldn't be signed for 100M. Then the 2nd options - Boateng, Maguire, Alderweireld, would have been signed at prices we deamed reasonable, not the 60M - 75M quoted.
It is not stupid at all. Couldn't make the numbers make financial sense. I am glad to know that we think this way.
Note that since this is Daniel Taylor I am inclined to believe it is true or near as dammit.
Note that since this is Daniel Taylor I am inclined to believe it is true or near as dammit.
Perhaps his thinking is that we've already signed two CBs for the current manager and whatever Levy demands is just not reasonable for Alderweireld?