The beginning of the end... (the original board vetoed Mourinho's transfer wish list thread)

Random Task said:
You have to question the validity of this article given the circumstances. I mean if any of this was even remotely true, Jose would have walked by now. There is no way he would stand for such a blatant undermining of his management.
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Why would he walk? Almost every manager go through this sort of stuff regularly.

Even ferguson dealt with these sort of disappointing windows regularly under Edwards, Kenyon and even Gill over the years. The manager will always have a list of players he wants and the club will always have an opinion on whether or not those players could or should be signed.
 
Glad he wasn't able to spunk a fortune on 29 year olds tbh. We need a board making the signings for the long term and not these managers who only plan on sticking around for a few years.
 
stevoc said:
I had been thinking the reason for the clubs lack of activity had been Woodward and Mourinho not being on the same page over targets. And to be honest if these rumours are true i think the club is right to not back him blindly for a few reasons. They gave LVG too much reign and thats largely why the squad is in this mess Mourinho has been trying to sort out.

The club had no problem backing Mourinho for the best part of £100m to sign Matic and Sanchez on huge salaries. But i think his targets are way too short term, and not the right age profile. If the rumoured targets are true then Willian, Perisic, Alderweireld, Boateng, Godin etc. while all very good players are all in or around 30 years old. Had we signed two of them our first team could have looked something like this.

Valencia(33)--Smalling(29)--Alderweireld(29)--Young (33)

-----Fred (25)----------Matic(30)-----------Pogba(25)

----Willian (30)--------Lukaku(25)---------Sanchez(29)

Looks a strong side but too many players around 30 there in my opinion. The club probably have it in the back of their minds that while they hope Mourinho is here long term he's never actually stayed anywhere more than 3 years. If he did leave next summer there would have been another major rebuild on the cards with the age profile of most of the key players in the squad.
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Think that's a perfect blend of experience and established players - sub Young with Sandro and Valencia with Dalot and you have an average age of 26ish.

Top 10 of ballon D'or ranking for last year - 4 players are below 29. Only Kane and Mbappe under 25.
The year prior only Neymar was under 25 in the top 10 rankings.

29/30 isn't old anymore mate. The best players in every line are 29 or above - Godin, Ramos, Marcelo, Alves, Modric, Bale, Lewandowski, Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez, Vidal, Aguero, etc.

Most Ballon D'or ranking lists are dominated by 29ish players.

The age bollocks really has to stop at some point.
 
Gave him a new contract in January. Decided he doesn't know anything about players in August.

Back him or sack him.
 
RedPed said:
Absolutely agree with the board in principle though they kinda contradicted themselves by keeping Fellaini when they could have got rid.

It's all about how this was communicated to the manager and when. I'd be gobsmacked if he's only finding this out now. They must have said "Now look Jose, give us a list of only top players you want and we will pay whatever it takes to get them but we're not going to keep paying over the odds for mediocre players so don't give us any of those.

They went all out for Sanchez so it looks like that's the direction they're going. We still haven't shifted anybody out yet either.
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That's a terrible strategy and these businessmen sure as hell have zero knowledge about building a proper team of football. They just want to sign marketable players to generate money from them, but this isn't going to build you a good balanced team all over the pitch any time soon.

Building a proper team is about getting players that fit in every position and do their job, not signing a top player then struggle to find a position to play him in and get about 50% of his abilities only.

Fergie had several not top names players and were useful for him.
 
So Woodward is leaking stories to the press that says he was happy to spend 100m on Varane, do me a fecking favour. It was Mourinho who coached him and gave him his chance, even falling out with other senior players in doing so. feck Woodward.
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
What is most baffling is that this is all about a fecking CB, when we clearly needed a RW and LB, but maybe Mourinho didn't even request that?

If the fees involved for Alderweireld were out of this world, then fair enough by the club. I also am glad we didn't sign the likes of Mina, Boateng and so on. Keeping tabs on Maguire is a smart thing, but if Leicester really wanted 75m or similar this season, then fair enough that we think twice about it, maybe next year.

We have 5 CB's so before talking about buying one, we should sell. But i don't get why we couldn't try getting a player like Alex Sandro and maybe Malcom/Pulisic, hell, even Shaqiri would probably have improved us.
But if Mou didn't want one then Woody won't go for one i guess. That's why i think we should get a DOF, someone who look at our weaknesses and correct them, and the manager will have little say, as it's in the best interest of the club.
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At right wing we were in for Bale, Willian and Peresic according to reports. Possibly others too.

At left back, there was plenty of talk about Sandro and Tierney.

Woodward only wanted to complete those deals at 'value' rather than backing the manager to the hilt. A better negotiator might have achieved it, but Ed's 5 year long track record suggests he's not in that bracket.

As it is, we're left with a manager we won't back, and squad who can't implement his philosophy. It's the worst of both worlds.

If you're not going to sack Jose, get the deals he wants done. And if you can't strike those deals at the right price, that comes down to the Chief Exec. The whole thing is a shambles.
 
noodlehair said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45133827

This article?

It says we tried to sign players and couldn't, due mainly to prices. Something which we all already knew.

The melodrama on here is beyond fecking ridiculous. You are all grown adults.
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There were a few similar ones from other journos. It is clearly a leak.

It also says much more than what you mentioned. That we didn't sign players cause we thought that they were either not good enough, or old, or expensive. And that despite that Mourinho wanted to sell Martial and Pogba, the club refused to do so.
 
Bubz27 said:
Huge fault on Jose's part not to prioritise any FBs. Criminal imo.

Maybe they didn't want to back Jose's CB list as he's already spent £65m on CB who haven't convinced.

If this is all true then Jose isn't the manager for us and he won't be here much longer. If we are prioritising long term and telling Jose no, then it's curtains this year I think.
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The idiots running the club extended Shaw's contract.

How did that help Jose?
 
Woodward is a very foolish man. Briefing the media at the cost of what? To protect his own image with the fans he'll destablize the club even further.

If Woodward didn't like Jose's targets why didn't he do something about it in April? Don't we have a scouting department, what about alternative targets?
 
MikeUpNorth said:
No, they all have the same specifics regarding why, player by player:
Alderweireld - not better than current centre backs. Conversation with Levy was only about Martial and Mata.
Mina - Agent fees were prohibitive and didn't want to set a precedent
Maguire - Not good enough
Godin - We were approached by intermediary but never made a bid
Varane - We would have spent £100m if he was available. Woodward met with Perez but he said no

This is the most obvious 'briefed' story I've ever seen coming out of the club.
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Even if it is all correct I don't understand the dramatics. This has been the way we have worked ever since Woodward was at the helm and it has been fairly obvious right from when Moyes took charge. It hasn't suddenly started happening now in some bid to undermine Mourinho.
 
Definitely agree with Woodward here. I also suspect Jose is fixated on the targets he wants, and disregards the scouts. By all credible accounts, we've expanded our scouting network, so I find it hard to believe there weren't other players who could be identified other than old, expensive ones.

Having said that, if Woodward has this stance, why doesn't he just sack him? Surely he knows Jose's mood will worsen, which will more than likely affect results on the field? Unless he's got someone lined up to take over should Jose not see out the season. It's a precarious situation for sure.

Next step for Ed is to get a DOF in. He must surely have learnt by now that relying only on the manager is not practical anymore.
 
We would have been willing to spend over 100 million pounds on Varane, if he were available... Interesting that.
 
thegregster said:
They won't back the next manager either. The board are full of shit.

Shaw Jones Young Smalling Herrera Mata etc all are free agents next season.

Good luck getting the funds to replace them.
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De Gea's deal is up soon too. How many of our top players will sign new contracts if they get the message that the board isn't willing to spend to catch up with City? The likes of Pogba didn't join United to chase top 4. They were sold the idea of getting the club back on top. They will leave.
 
We all moan about the lack of value in the market.

Spending over the odds on Alderweireld, Boateng, Maguire and the sort would only act to further over-inflate the market.

A club the size of ours, refusing to pay over the odds, should act to bring it back to normality. It's insane at the moment.

But there should have been alternatives lined up. Do we not have scouts for this?
 
Baxter said:
Don’t know what thread this is worth putting in, so move if necessary.




Taylor is quite reliable, so what do people think of this?
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Taylor is certainly one of the better journos, and the guardian try to be more factual than most papers, but he's still guilty of spin.

I'm fairly sure from reading the transcript of the presser he accused the media of making out that finishing 2nd last season was “one of my biggest achievements in the game”, and then went on to point out he's got a pretty healthy trophy cabinet at home.
 
BlueHaze said:
I don't get it, they were supposedly willing to pay 100m for Varane but they were not willing to pay 70m for Maguire how does that make any sense? He is only 25 and imo better than every single CB we have and he is the exact type of Mourinho player tall, strong good in the air and all that so if these reports are true, then feck Woodward for not being able to sort out a deal for Maguire, name any CB around Maguires age we could have signed for that ammount of money who would have been better?
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Seems like they were willing to get Maguire, but he wasn't available. The other thing with Maguire, the club saw him sign for Leicester last summer for £17m while Mourinho spunked 40m on Lindelof. Now Mourinho wants him this summer, while Leicester are demanding 70m+.

Hardly inspires any confidence in your managers ability to identify targets.
 
noodlehair said:
Even if it is all correct I don't understand the dramatics. This has been the way we have worked ever since Woodward was at the helm and it has been fairly obvious right from when Moyes took charge. It hasn't suddenly started happening now in some bid to undermine Mourinho.
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True, Woody likes a briefing. I guess we'll see if Mourinho reacts in his press conference after the game tomorrow.
 
Revan said:
There were a few similar ones from other journos. It is clearly a leak.

It also says much more than what you mentioned. That we didn't sign players cause we thought that they were either not good enough, or old, or expensive. And that despite that Mourinho wanted to sell Martial and Pogba, the club refused to do so.
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I have read it. It doesn't say Mourinho wanted to sell Pogba, in fact it says there is "No evidence" that he did.

Again, what is the huff about. In what way is this different to how Woodward conducts transfer business every bloody year? Or are we convenently forgetting him lumbering LVG with a bunch of players he never really asked for and then LVG constantly whining aboout the club not signing the "creative players" he wanted?
 
Skills said:
Err yes it is.
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Err no it’s not. It’s for them to decide if it’s affordable or not. They’re in no position to judge a player’s value.

If they want to say we can’t afford another centre-half that’s fine. Not you can have that player but only at this price, or this money but not for that player.
 
Absolutely agree with this policy. Pathetic need to sign ready made players at their peak. Get the best out of the players you have. Coach some attacking play into the team.

If you can't do that, it's not worth investing more in you
 
If this has been leaked, Woodward needs to go back to the commercial department and let somebody competent step in. This is embarrassing.
 
The suspicion of United’s hierarchy is the manager is taking a short‑term view rather than thinking more strategically about what would be better for the club in the coming years.
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This is the most painfully obvious thing and the idea of it being a surprise or even something that needs to be written is fecking infuriating
 
el3mel said:
That's a terrible strategy and these businessmen sure as hell have zero knowledge about building a proper team of football. They just want to sign marketable players to generate money from them, but this isn't going to build you a good balanced team all over the pitch any time soon.

Building a proper team is about getting players that fit in every position and do their job, not signing a top player then struggle to find a position to play him in and get about 50% of his abilities only.

Fergie had several not top names players and were useful for him.
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Who said anything about marketable?? We're talking about quality here. I wouldn't say that Varane is particularly 'marketable' but he sure is quality! I don't see anything wrong in what they're trying to achieve.
 
PepsiCola said:
We all moan about the lack of value in the market.

Spending over the odds on Alderweireld, Boateng, Maguire and the sort would only act to further over-inflate the market.

A club the size of ours, refusing to pay over the odds, should act to bring it back to normality. It's insane at the moment.

But there should have been alternatives lined up. Do we not have scouts for this?
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Agreed. And yes, we do have scouts, but probably not being properly utilised imho.
A DOF is needed. Plus he'll provide a buffer between the manager and the board. Much better that way imho.
 
Jeppers7 said:
Absolutely agree with this policy. Pathetic need to sign ready made players at their peak. Get the best out of the players you have. Coach some attacking play into the team.

If you can't do that, it's not worth investing more in you
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:lol:

Pep and Klopp NEVER sign ready made players.
 
Snow said:
It's a tought situation. You need to improve the squad to win the titles but the value in the market is just nuts. Something really needs to be done because we're seeing the world record for goalkeepers being broken year after year. 70m for a keeper with 2 seasons of top football. You think you've stopped being suprised by the fees but it just keeps going. It's not healthy business and something will go wrong soon.

I'll accept this explanation from the board and not be unhappy about it.
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The money isn't going to get saved up for a rainy day. It's going right in the shareholder's pockets. The Glazers are adding an incredible amount of money to their own private wealth every year off the back of the Man Utd brand. They should absolutely be reinvesting a huge chunk of it into the squad each season. Man Utd should be shopping for players from Harrods, not raking around in the Lidl bargain bin just because it's better value.
 
When a club and manager go head to head there's only one winner..
 
noodlehair said:
I have read it. It doesn't say Mourinho wanted to sell Pogba, in fact it says there is "No evidence" that he did.

Again, what is the huff about. In what way is this different to how Woodward conducts transfer business every bloody year? Or are we convenently forgetting him lumbering LVG with a bunch of players he never really asked for and then LVG constantly whining aboout the club not signing the "creative players" he wanted?
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You're right about Pogba, read it wrongly.

Which players he signed that LVG didn't want? As far as I know it was only Shaw and Herrera which were not LVG's targets, but he had the right to veto them. We got them cause we were short in those positions and we didn't want to repeat the summer of 2013 when Moyes dithered so much that in the end we got only Fellaini for more than his release clause. And cause we had already given Herrera our word.
 
Big question should be why ex Juventus scout left us after only a year, what is really going on, all seems very strange?
 
RedPed said:
Who said anything about marketable?? We're talking about quality here. I wouldn't say that Varane is particularly 'marketable' but he sure is quality! I don't see anything wrong in what they're trying to achieve.
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Varane is very marketable.

Also it was absolutely foolish for them to throw Varane in the article to make them appear ready to spend. That's not different from going to Barca and ask them to buy Messi.

Approaching a player impossible to be sold then claiming you did your job is very Arsenal-esque. You're just doing it to save your face and make you appear like you wanted to spend but didn't find a good target, which is the opposite. You didn't want to spend so approached an impossible target to make it as an excuse later.
 
thegregster said:
They won't back the next manager either. The board are full of shit.

Shaw Jones Young Smalling Herrera Mata etc all are free agents next season.

Good luck getting the funds to replace them.
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None of them are united quality anyway.
 
Cliche Guevara said:
Absolutely disgraceful, if true, in my opinion.

If the money is there they should let the manager spend it. It’s not for the board to decide who’s value for money or not.

If the board want a certain profile of player then let the manager know. Don’t be asking for a list then spend the whole summer trying to sign those players on the cheap, and missing out on every one. It’s all half-arsed.

And of course people line up screaming for a DoF when it’s completely irrelevant.
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100% agree with the communicating with the manager if the board disagrees or shows why, after actually speaking with agent or club, the player on the wishlist isn't available.

Jose said he gave his wishlist to the board over 5 months ago or at least months ago. Don't you think the board would do their due diligence and communicate why they can or cannot get the player? And not leave it to the last couple of weeks?

It's as if the board and manager have no understanding of communication and proactive process. Here's my list. We'll come back with am yes, no, maybe. Jose revises list and the scouting department identifies replacements they think fit the price and profile.

And the story just harps on the CB position. Nothing about other positions aside from Spurs approaching Martial. @Raoul has pointed out before and others that Jose made a comment about not looking for another forward player once Sanchez was acquired.

Either way, United need more quality in the team as everyone knows.
 
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