The beginning of the end... (the original board vetoed Mourinho's transfer wish list thread)

Treble said:
Jose wanted a team with Valencia, Young, Toby, Matic, Willian and Sanchez, that is a team with 6 players 30 y.o. in the starting XI.

Liverpool don't have a SINGLE 30 y.o in their first XI!

City have 2 or 3 and don't have a top replacement for only 1 of them - Fernandinho.

It's easy to see why the board were reluctant to pay top dollar for players who would make our first XI much older than that of City and Liverpool.
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He had Dalot in as a long term replacement for Valencia and he had Fred taking Carricks legs. So he already invested in youth for the future seasons.

Him wanting Alderweireld and Wilian isn't a terrible thought. There's no fecking RW out there that can be a safer bet.
 
VP89 said:
But it wasn't £60m for Toby. It was part cash part "5th choice Centre back" who we would struggle to flog off anyway.
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What i'm saying is Spurs wouldn't have accepted Rojo because he isn't their profile of cb, so the only other alternative was to pay £60m
 
Why give him a new contract, if they are expecting a 3rd year meltdown?

Losses should have been cut sooner if this assumption is true.

My view is there will be some serious penny pinching over the next few years, because I can see us doing some major work to OT to catch up with our modern counterparts. OT truly is a shithole now.
 
villain said:
What i'm saying is Spurs wouldn't have accepted Rojo because he isn't their profile of cb, so the only other alternative was to pay £60m
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Goes against what the article suggested, but OK.

We are diverging on the original point though, which is that you think the board is correct in their ways and I don't.

For me you don't ignore 3 key positions all together and just replace Carrick. Especially when every team is splashing the cash and you have to gain 19 pts on City.
 
It's really telling how people assume or believe that there havent been any internal discussions within the organization or there arent different opinions/discussions about strategy and direction of the club over the course of several months. There are several stakeholders and influencers/decision makers in every business at this size and not a one man show (i.e woodward) like some think. Mourinho himself told a while back that he didnt think he would get more players in which indicates that he knew about the challenges and process behind it.

When you constantly invest heavy like united have done the latter years (relatively speaking) you would like to see an return of those investments which they clearly havent. In addition to the unrest if you believe the papers amongst two of the biggest acquistions in Pogba and Martial we have also let a lot of the new recruits go after a short stint, while others havent been able to break through.

Proir to the summer most people thought that FB, CM and RW would be priortity and not CB where we already are stacked.

We got a new CM and also renewed with Fellaini which seems to be a managerial decision. Also added a FB, even though an talent (but it fits in with the profile talent wise)

That leaves RW and probably one more FB.
And how many had f.ex Maguire on their shortlist before the WC? And havent people always said never buy from Munich again?

Why so butthurt now? And do people really think that it is sustainable to acquire 29-30 year olds with injury records for £65-75m on 2-3 year contracts? You would like to spread the cost over a longer contract than that.

The only thing that is certain is that the club have shown to be willing to invest heavily on young and upcoming talents such as Martial, Bailly, Lukaku and Pogba as well as key players such as Matic, Sanchez and Zlatan that they know will make an difference short term.

If you compare that lot to the pool of players that were available this year it is a clear difference in both talent and marketability (ROI). In addition it needs to be factored in that United clearly wants to promote youth, and thus the quality of the acquistions needs to be high to justify both the outlet and consequences it have for the youth teams.

To blame either Woodward or Mourinho is ignorant as we really doesnt know whats going behind the scenes. However, it is clear to see that we are working on a budget but also start to grind out a direction in recruitment which have been all over the place the last years.
 
VP89 said:
He had Dalot in as a long term replacement for Valencia and he had Fred taking Carricks legs. So he already invested in youth for the future seasons.

Him wanting Alderweireld and Wilian isn't a terrible thought. There's no fecking RW out there that can be a safer bet.
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According to all I've read about Dalot, we have a real prospect on our hands and will hopefully prove to be a shrewd buy. Fred is young and should provide some real energy in midfield and still his best years ahead so any arguments that Jose only buys finished articles are stupid. The interest in Maguire was genuine and he is only young and I believe Jose would have preferred Maguire over Toby any day of the week. Maguire is Jose's kind of player. Skill, attitude and playing style.

The Zlatan signing was a great signing, genuine world class star with a massive winning attitude, on a free made sense no matter the age. He still scored plenty of goals and proved himself in his short time with us.

I just don't think some of the arguments aimed at Jose are fair. The guys just knows what type of player he wants whatever the age.
 
Treble said:
That's a HUGE IF though. The board decided that it's not likely to happen. Given Mourinho's history to date - quick success and a 3rd year meltdown - they didn't quite believe that Toby and Willian would be game-changers. Maybe Jose will prove them wrong and have a great 3rd season. Chances are it won't happen.
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Those chances are strongly affected by the fact we didn't strengthen though, while most teams around us did.
 
Can I just quote this post from @The red panther in the 'unpopular opinions thread' back in January 2017.
I thought the post was hilarious due it's gloomy nature but he may be right, although not sure about the Liverpool bit.

I screen shotted on my phone because it's that's funny.

Mourinho will drive away Martial from United and we will end up regretting that for the following decade as he will become one of the best players in the world.

Mourinho will not win a single title at United and his title with Chelsea will end up to be the last major title in his career.

United will be waiting longer than Arsenal for its next PL title but not as long as Liverpool.

We will develop into a team where it is considered a successful season if we can top 4 and CL footy but there will be no titel expections anymore. In the next 20 years we will not be mentioned in the same vein anymore as clubs like Real Madrid, Barcelona Bayern Munchen or Juventus but more with clubs like Tottenham and Ac.Milan
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predator said:
Can I just quote this post from @The red panther in the 'unpopular opinions thread' back in January 2017.
I thought the post was hilarious due it's gloomy nature but he may be right, although not sure about the Liverpool bit.

I screen shotted on my phone because it's that's funny.
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Let's kick a ball this season first hey
 
predator said:
Can I just quote this post from @The red panther in the 'unpopular opinions thread' back in January 2017.
I thought the post was hilarious due it's gloomy nature but he may be right, although not sure about the Liverpool bit.

I screen shotted on my phone because it's that's funny.
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Of all the people you quoted that guy. :lol: of course it's ridiculous too. There's moaning and there red panther posts.
 
Mourinho will drive away Martial from United and we will end up regretting that for the following decade as he will become one of the best players in the world.

Mourinho will not win a single title at United and his title with Chelsea will end up to be the last major title in his career.

United will be waiting longer than Arsenal for its next PL title but not as long as Liverpool.
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It's like having your horoscope read by Jack Dee.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Matic has been alright, excellent is a bit much as he dwells on the ball when he recieves it a bit too long. Fred will help with the urgency. Certainly he isn't a bargain at £40m and I'd rather we signed Kante the previous summer.

There is a definite fall in expectations in calling Matic the best signing ever. Either way I think Woodward would have been fine spending £40m on Alderweireld. Levy wanted much more.
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Hindsight is 20/20. If everyone knew Kante was going to be hands down the best DM in world football he would have sold for much more than 30m. Matic is a fantastic deal at 40m.
 
goin4glory said:
Hindsight is 20/20. If everyone knew Kante was going to be hands down the best DM in world football he would have sold for much more than 30m. Matic is a fantastic deal at 40m.
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I would have taken a punt based on his title-winning performances in the prior season.
 
VP89 said:
Goes against what the article suggested, but OK.

We are diverging on the original point though, which is that you think the board is correct in their ways and I don't.

For me you don't ignore 3 key positions all together and just replace Carrick. Especially when every team is splashing the cash and you have to gain 19 pts on City.
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We don't disagree on ignoring the other positions. I've said since the window opened that LB & RW shouldn't be ignored, and were a priority area for us to buy new players.

I just don't see the value in spending that much on Toby, whether it's cash+player, or just cash. Same for Willian, that's all.
If you think we should've done so, then fair play.
 
Off post a little but Varane at £100m? He’s massively overrated and only looks half decent thanks to Ramos.

As for the board not wanting to spend large sums on older players, I can understand that and only in the recent market would you see the sort of numbers quoted for 29+ players. Jose needs to adapt and change his transfer strategy.
 
#07 said:
Do you lot remember when Sir Alex used to say the manager must be the most important person at a football club? Those were the days...
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Easy when its Sir Alex. Not so easy when it's the Portuguese David Moyes.
 
So Woodward said he wouldn't pay big money for Toby/Boateng because they're 29 and told Mourinho to target someone younger, he tells them Maguire and then they won't stump up the money? What the feck if wrong with him? So what if Maguire was available for 15m last season, Mbappe was available for 10m a few years ago, you don't make things worse by failing to improve the team because it'll look like poor management.
 
This isn't going to end well, is it? If we start badly (which is highly possible due to injuries and lack of fitness) Jose might be gone before Christmas.
 
GBBQ said:
I'm happy with the briefing because it shows we weren't running around like headless chickens trying to buy Zouma or Godin on transfer deadline day. As a fan it was nice to have context to how the window played out. This window was always going to be difficult and we weren't the only clubs who were underwhelming here.

However at no stage do I want this to result in Mourinho going out. I agree with what @Pogue Mahone said in that the timing is lousy and this tit for tat shit in the media isn't doing the club any favours, but on a purely personal level it paints a much better picture of our dealings on a transfer level.

I think if we are to get back to the top we need both sides to cop the feck on and to portray a united front and leave the bitching behind doors. Mourinho needs to at least act happy to be managing the biggest club in the world and Woodward needs to bring in the staff to make sure we get the right players in when needed. Neither side is blameless here but we're just a laughing stock the way things are going.

Anyway 4-0 United tonight and we close this thread for good.
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If you were in Mourinho's shoes and an executive with no footballing experience vetoed your plans, what would you do? Would you feel like it was a partnership? Of course you wouldn't expect to get everything your own way , however, you would expect to reach some common ground given you are supposed to be aligned on your goals.

Mourinho has a number of faults, especially his negativity, but until Woodward realises he shouldnt be making footballing decisions nothing will change at Utd. If he doesnt want the manager to make short terms buys, then why hire Mourinho? Utd knew what they were getting and this briefing is nothing more than an attempt to save face. All it does is highlight the distance between manager and club.
 
pre Munich Red said:
Mourinho has finally been ‘found-out’ - his dismal approach to the game will see him off very soon - with no major club willing to take him on - adios Jose.
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A bit harsh. First generation Jose was brilliant. Problem is he hasn't evolved.
 
LazyRed-Ninja said:
The club is more concerned about the 'long term strategy' and feels like Mourinho is a short term visionary. Surely, that conclusions could be reached the day he signed his contract? :wenger:
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Can you be a short term visionary?

Of course the club is looking at the long term - and nothing wrong with Jose looking at the immediate - there’s always a degree of conflict in these regards.

I have issue with all these fans, either demanding Jose leave/ get sacked due to the perception he’s not been ‘backed’, or those saying Woodward should go.

The manager can ask for who we he wants, but if they are considered over-priced/ not affordable, then it’s absolutely Woodward’s job to ensure we get the right player and the right price, and not over paying for players that will only be in the first team for 2-4 years.

No manager, ever gets exactly what they want. This is not an issue, and one that is blowing up on here as expected when people go into Meltdown Mode.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
I was stating that was an example of a brilliant signing when someone called Matic one.
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Both the Matic and Kante signings were great pieces of business.

Kante went to Chelsea the same summer as Pogba, so whilst clearly different, I suspect that had a big effect on why we were never in for him.
 
Kush said:
This thread is further proof why Ed Woodward is a genius, what he wanted from this briefing clearly worked. After taking brunt of the blame for an appalling transfer window, he duly shifted the blame on the manager handing him a shit list. I can't believe how gullible folks on here are, they'll believe in anything as long as it's in line with their own beliefs.

I see absolutely no reason to brief media like this on eve of PL season, it doesn't make sense to destabilize the club and the fan-base just to save your own face. But then again it's Ed Woodward we're talking about.
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Absolutely. If there is a time and place for it, it certainly isn't on the eve of the new season.

I can imagine Liverpool and city are rather enjoying this soap opera called Manchester United Football Club right now.

Whatever has happened, we need to rally and get behind the team and the manager and give this season a real good go. Sometimes things can click and surprise you when all looks doomed to failure.

Come on United!!
 
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goin4glory said:
So Woodward said he wouldn't pay big money for Toby/Boateng because they're 29 and told Mourinho to target someone younger, he tells them Maguire and then they won't stump up the money? What the feck if wrong with him? So what if Maguire was available for 15m last season, Mbappe was available for 10m a few years ago, you don't make things worse by failing to improve the team because it'll look like poor management.
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I think the point is that he isn't much better than he was last season
 
Kag said:
You have a point. The brief states that selling Martial and bringing in 29 year olds is short term thinking. Which is true. I don't think it's trying to criticise Mourinho necessarily, but moreso justifying the reasons for not buying reported targets.

I like the brief, actually. The club has allowed Mourinho to act like a baby all summer and it's time the board gives us a less dramatic account of events.
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Or maybe Mourinho has been watching the board fail to do their job all summer.......I hope all the people who didn't want experienced players remember that as the season goes on.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Can you be a short term visionary?

Of course the club is looking at the long term - and nothing wrong with Jose looking at the immediate - there’s always a degree of conflict in these regards.

I have issue with all these fans, either demanding Jose leave/ get sacked due to the perception he’s not been ‘backed’, or those saying Woodward should go.

The manager can ask for who we he wants, but if they are considered over-priced/ not affordable, then it’s absolutely Woodward’s job to ensure we get the right player and the right price, and not over paying for players that will only be in the first team for 2-4 years.

No manager, ever gets exactly what they want. This is not an issue, and one that is blowing up on here as expected when people go into Meltdown Mode.
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Yet only the CAF does that contribute to two camps which is a short sighted way to analyse this situation, simply because it has been proven that the manager also got the world class players he wanted. Its not as if he manager was systematically deprived from signings the day he signed his contract. The manager and the team finished second which was the best league rank since SAF retired, yet this narrative has been created that the team desperately needs injections to finish in the top 4. The team is certainty good enough to finish top 4 and given how City will perform this season, a respectable league campaign should be possible too.
 
steffyr2 said:
Or maybe Mourinho has been watching the board fail to do their job all summer.......I hope all the people who didn't want experienced players remember that as the season goes on.
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It’s not that anyone doesn’t want experienced players, and clearly you need the right mix. I would be more than happy for us to have bought willian for example. However, I more than understand that after speaking with Chelsea and being quoted £70-80m we decide that not the best route to take.
 
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