The beginning of the end... (the original board vetoed Mourinho's transfer wish list thread)

[SteveJ]

Indeed I don't get it myself, you either back him of you find someone else

IMO, both parties are giving it 'til December; then decisions might be made.

 

[Patrick08]

I mean...if he doesn't trust Mourinho's vision for the club, then giving him a contract extension quite clearly isn't a good idea? I get that the board are going to want to critique a manager and won't have absolute blind faith in him, but if they genuinely don't trust him to make signings then I'm baffled as to why he's still here.

I think giving him a two year contract extension might also be a strategic decision by Woodward which is cruel if you think in that direction.

As long as Jose stays top 4 they won't sack him, but as they knew Jose could quit if he wasn't satisfied him quitting won't give him any compensation package .

 

[Cheesy]

I think giving him a two year contract extension might also be a strategic decision by Woodward which is cruel if you think in that direction.

As long as Jose stays top 4 they won't sack him, but as they knew Jose could quit if he wasn't satisfied him quitting won't give him any compensation package .

I think they'd probably sack him at this point if he only finishes 4th with a poor points total and wins nothing else, but yeah, this isn't far off probably.

 

[Handsome Devil]

A simple question, with the Board taking this stance (corporate guys, financiers, accountants), which footballing brain at the club is bending their ear when they make these decisions?

 

[simplyared]

Ok, 8:00 tonight. Time to let the football do the talking!

 

[Godfather]

Over what exactly? This team should was the floor with Leicester. Signings or not.

A midfield consisting of Pereira, McTominay and a newly signed Fred won't wipe the floor with any team tbf

 

[Kush]

This thread is further proof why Ed Woodward is a genius, what he wanted from this briefing clearly worked. After taking brunt of the blame for an appalling transfer window, he duly shifted the blame on the manager handing him a shit list. I can't believe how gullible folks on here are, they'll believe in anything as long as it's in line with their own beliefs.

I see absolutely no reason to brief media like this on eve of PL season, it doesn't make sense to destabilize the club and the fan-base just to save your own face. But then again it's Ed Woodward we're talking about.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

IMO, both parties are giving it 'til December; then decisions might be made.

Possibly. In the meantime that's more ground lost on our rivals in terms of development and potentially a season down the toilet. Whatever you think of Jose there's no escaping it's poor from the board.

At least we have actual football to watch soon, it's pretty unedifying commenting on the he-said-she-said fallout from a poor transfer window (even though I've had a good whine myself).

 

[cyberman]

Talking about not living in a vacuum but don’t mention that the reason liverpool have spent so much is that they’ve consistently sold their best players.

We’ve given Jose more money than any other manager our club has ever had.

He’s had the highest net spent in the world behind City since he arrived (while they have got rid of a massive amount of players on their wagebill for free)

Mourinho has the most expensive outfield player in the prem and has already got two centre backs for roughly 70 million who look pretty bang average tbf.

Jose has been backed. Fact.

Has been. Yes.
Liverpool spent the Coutinho money months ago, if anything their money should be more precious than ours since they have to sell their stars to get it yet guess what? 150 odd million spent on their defence in 8 months.
Does VVD have resale value? Will Allisons value soar in the goalkeepers position?
2 centrebacks for 60m isn't that much when its spread over 3 fecking summers, why do people revert to 2009 prices to prove a point then to combine the two after that?
Everton are spending more on CBs! Sell Rojo and Jones to buy Toby for 50m. Job done.
The precious 60m spend remains as it is.

 

[Patrick08]

I think they'd probably sack him at this point if he only finishes 4th with a poor points total and wins nothing else, but yeah, this isn't far off probably.

Nah, i don't think so Jose is key to their financial stability and financial security with top 4 finishes. Sacking him would make them pay his compensation and also jeopardise top 4's financial stability. But unlike Moyes and Lvg who was on brink of retirement Jose could quit so to tie him down a contract made sense from wood wards perspective.

 

[Renegade]

If Mourinho got his own way with money/signings what would his ideal team look like going against City?

De Gea
Valencia Toby Lindelof Young
Fred matic pogba
Willian lukaku Sanchez

Would that team promise better football than he served up last season?
If he had spend £60m on Toby and £70m on Willian and we still played poorly and City won the league again would you then sack Jose? Or “back” him with another £150/£200m to go again the following season.

It’s a messy situation but I see both sides of the argument. However no excuse for the football Mourinho has us playing and I don’t want to hear him making excuses this season.

 

[buchansleftleg]

To all the people delighted at this briefing by Woodward, because they think it will bring about the demise of their bogeyman Jose I have a question...

Obviously if Jose goes everything will be right with the world...Players will somehow unlock hidden potential, form will improve and City will somehow throw away 10-15 points more.

But the question I have is what do you think all our potential new Managers will be thinking after reading this briefing?

How easily Woodward is played by agents / execs of other teams.
How the club has over £100m to spend on the right player.
How Woodward goes behind your back and briefs against you in the press, no matter how successful your record as a manager
How an accountant with no footballing knowledge is somehow calling the shots and influencing the owners to not back the manager.

If any of these thoughts cross the mind of our potential next new Manager then maybe they will just not bother to answer when Ed starts ringing around to look for interested candidates.

I'm not interested in the debate about player x or y or justifying spending. All of this should have been handled in private in a professional way - we should not be hearing about it until years later.

People go on about Mourinho's sulphurous reputation in the media, being seen as a poor example etc and it makes me laugh, when we have a guy behaving with all the grace, style and professionalism of a sewer rat in charge of the club

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Nah, i don't think so Jose is key to their financial stability and financial security with top 4 finishes. Sacking him would make them pay his compensation and also jeopardise top 4's financial stability. But unlike Moyes and Lvg who was on brink of retirement Jose could quit so to tie him down a contract made sense from wood wards perspective.

Was just about to say this. The public pressure might force him out if he finishes 4th this year with boring football, but from the club's perspective it would make no sense to fire him if we make top 4 this year, for the reasons you mentioned.

 

[ZAGREB RED]

If Mourinho got his own way with money/signings what would his ideal team look like going against City?

De Gea
Valencia Toby Lindelof Young
Fred matic pogba
Willian lukaku Sanchez

Would that team promise better football than he served up last season?
If he had spend £60m on Toby and £70m on Willian and we still played poorly and City won the league again would you then sack Jose? Or “back” him with another £150/£200m to go again the following season.

It’s a messy situation but I see both sides of the argument. However no excuse for the football Mourinho has us playing and I don’t want to hear him making excuses this season.

I think there is a school of though that it doesn't really matter who Mourinho signs, the football - or lack of - will remain the same. Hard to tell if he doesn't get the players he wants, but maybe he is just using the lack of signings to excuse the lack of progress in the team.

 

[pocco]

This thread is further proof why Ed Woodward is a genius, what he wanted from this briefing clearly worked. After taking brunt of the blame for an appalling transfer window, he duly shifted the blame on the manager handing him a shit list. I can't believe how gullible folks on here are, they'll believe in anything as long as it's in line with their own beliefs.

I see absolutely no reason to brief media like this on eve of PL season, it doesn't make sense to destabilize the club and the fan-base just to save your own face. But then again it's Ed Woodward we're talking about.

On here Jose is getting a lot of stick still but I've seen a lot of other people turn their gaze to Woodward now on Twitter etc. The thing is, people would have forgot about the window with a week and just concentrated on the games, but Woodward has just poured a tanker of fuel on the fire.

 

[zonaldefending]

Just as a side note, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have a GM and a Head Coach.

This is standard amongst all sports in the US. I would think the reason that there is no DOF/Sporting Director at Utd is down to the fact that it’s not, or should say traditionally wasn’t, a widely used setup in England. The traditional manager of an English club was almost like a GM in the US. The only difference being a GM doesn’t pick the team on a game to game basis.

 

[welshwingwizard]

To all the people delighted at this briefing by Woodward, because they think it will bring about the demise of their bogeyman Jose I have a question...

Obviously if Jose goes everything will be right with the world...Players will somehow unlock hidden potential, form will improve and City will somehow throw away 10-15 points more.

But the question I have is what do you think all our potential new Managers will be thinking after reading this briefing?

How easily Woodward is played by agents / execs of other teams.
How the club has over £100m to spend on the right player.
How Woodward goes behind your back and briefs against you in the press, no matter how successful your record as a manager
How an accountant with no footballing knowledge is somehow calling the shots and influencing the owners to not back the manager.

If any of these thoughts cross the mind of our potential next new Manager then maybe they will just not bother to answer when Ed starts ringing around to look for interested candidates.

I'm not interested in the debate about player x or y or justifying spending. All of this should have been handled in private in a professional way - we should not be hearing about it until years later.

People go on about Mourinho's sulphurous reputation in the media, being seen as a poor example etc and it makes me laugh, when we have a guy behaving with all the grace, style and professionalism of a sewer rat in charge of the club

Great posts. Sums up my thoughts exactly. Who is woodward to decide on who is good enough.

 

[Kush]

On here Jose is getting a lot of stick still but I've seen a lot of other people turn their gaze to Woodward now on Twitter etc. The thing is, people would have forgot about the window with a week and just concentrated on the games, but Woodward has just poured a tanker of fuel on the fire.

It's surprising, no matter who the manager is. When the board is undermining the manager, it does not bode well for your team. And it's not like this is some knowledgeable bloke doing this, he's an investment banker turned CEO. I can't believe how many have turned against Jose in space of 6 months especially on here, they'd side with anything as long as it reduces his stint.

Mourinho can be a negative bastard at times, there's no denying that but at least he looked upbeat for the season ahead yesterday. And now for some bizarre reason Woodward today is a good time to get his story out, mind baffles on how some of things are being done at our club.

To all the people delighted at this briefing by Woodward, because they think it will bring about the demise of their bogeyman Jose I have a question...

Obviously if Jose goes everything will be right with the world...Players will somehow unlock hidden potential, form will improve and City will somehow throw away 10-15 points more.

But the question I have is what do you think all our potential new Managers will be thinking after reading this briefing?

How easily Woodward is played by agents / execs of other teams.
How the club has over £100m to spend on the right player.
How Woodward goes behind your back and briefs against you in the press, no matter how successful your record as a manager
How an accountant with no footballing knowledge is somehow calling the shots and influencing the owners to not back the manager.

If any of these thoughts cross the mind of our potential next new Manager then maybe they will just not bother to answer when Ed starts ringing around to look for interested candidates.

I'm not interested in the debate about player x or y or justifying spending. All of this should have been handled in private in a professional way - we should not be hearing about it until years later.

People go on about Mourinho's sulphurous reputation in the media, being seen as a poor example etc and it makes me laugh, when we have a guy behaving with all the grace, style and professionalism of a sewer rat in charge of the club

Fantastic post, some on here are convinced that a new manager would solve all our problems and take us forward (despite the fact we're going there under Mourinho). They'll be the first one to step forward with the pitch-forks when things go awry under the next manager.

 

[JPRouve]

This is standard amongst all sports in the US. I would think the reason that there is no DOF/Sporting Director at Utd is down to the fact that it’s not, or should say traditionally wasn’t, a widely used setup in England. The traditional manager of an English club was almost like a GM in the US. The only difference being a GM doesn’t pick the team on a game to game basis.

And it's now very common in England and has always been in the rest of the world.

 

[Karappa]

It's obvious the club board don't want Mourinho to stay and are trying to push him out. This situation has been seen so many times at other clubs and it will have the same outcome - the only question is how bad will the influence on the season and the results be. Going by Mourinho's last season at Chelsea it could be devastating when he's not motivated anymore and infecting everyone with his bad mood.

This concerted press move has been fed to the media from inside the club and I'm pretty sure they are already looking at successors. Could a couple of wins change the situation? Maybe, but on the one hand it's Mou and he doesn't forget things like these and on the other hand I actually believe the team will struggle a lot, especially at the start of the season with some players just returning from their breaks. Wouldn't be surprise if Mourinho is gone by Christmas...

But seeing how the board are handling things I doubt the next manager will be in a better situation...

 

[Mainoldo]

To all the people delighted at this briefing by Woodward, because they think it will bring about the demise of their bogeyman Jose I have a question...

Obviously if Jose goes everything will be right with the world...Players will somehow unlock hidden potential, form will improve and City will somehow throw away 10-15 points more.

But the question I have is what do you think all our potential new Managers will be thinking after reading this briefing?

How easily Woodward is played by agents / execs of other teams.
How the club has over £100m to spend on the right player.
How Woodward goes behind your back and briefs against you in the press, no matter how successful your record as a manager
How an accountant with no footballing knowledge is somehow calling the shots and influencing the owners to not back the manager.

If any of these thoughts cross the mind of our potential next new Manager then maybe they will just not bother to answer when Ed starts ringing around to look for interested candidates.

I'm not interested in the debate about player x or y or justifying spending. All of this should have been handled in private in a professional way - we should not be hearing about it until years later.

People go on about Mourinho's sulphurous reputation in the media, being seen as a poor example etc and it makes me laugh, when we have a guy behaving with all the grace, style and professionalism of a sewer rat in charge of the club

If the manager had kept his mouth shut in the media we wouldn’t need a club brief would we. So I don’t see why another manger has to worry. Poch got sweet FA and i haven’t heard him say anything. Pep said he would like a CM but he’s happy neither did he publicly request the board to answer why we they failed to get Jorginho. Can you imagine if we failed to give Jose the player he wanted. Oh wait, infact we do.

Florentino Perez has no problem hiring managers. I think we will be fine. As if you gave a moral high ground argument lol.

 

[Treble]

If Mourinho got his own way with money/signings what would his ideal team look like going against City?

De Gea
Valencia Toby Lindelof Young
Fred matic pogba
Willian lukaku Sanchez

Would that team promise better football than he served up last season?
If he had spend £60m on Toby and £70m on Willian and we still played poorly and City won the league again would you then sack Jose? Or “back” him with another £150/£200m to go again the following season.

It’s a messy situation but I see both sides of the argument. However no excuse for the football Mourinho has us playing and I don’t want to hear him making excuses this season.

Sums it up for me.

6 of Jose's wish team would be about 30 y.o. On top of it, such a team would not be very likely to challenge City who have a younger team. What's the point then? To finsih 2nd or 3rd?

Liverpool have a younger team too, much younger actually.

Short-term fixes make sense if they make us clearly better, e.g. Godin. Short-term fixes to finish 2nd again do not make much sense.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If the manager had kept his mouth shut in the media we wouldn’t need a club brief would we. So I don’t see why another manger has to worry. Poch got sweet FA and i haven’t heard him say anything. Pep said he would like a CM but he’s happy neither did he publicly request the board to answer why we they failed to get Jorginho. Can you imagine if we failed to give Jose the player he wanted. Oh wait, infact we do.

Florentino Perez has no problem hiring managers. I think we will be fine. As if you gave a moral high ground argument lol.

I take it you missed his press conference yesterday? You should search it out.

 

[pre Munich Red]

Mourinho has finally been ‘found-out’ - his dismal approach to the game will see him off very soon - with no major club willing to take him on - adios Jose.

 

[villain]

Poor outputs:

Bailly (mainly due to injuries though)
Lindelof (I still don't understand the signing, his place should have been taken by Tuanzebe if we wanted a backup player for the season to develop)
Mhikitaryan
Sanchez (so far, especially since he could have been signed for free in the summer, and we already had 2 players in his position)
Pogba (failing to settle, looking like he wants to leave, we don't seem to be able to get the best out of him after 2 seasons)

Good outputs:

Lukaku (Decent first season even if 16 league goals is on the low side)
Matic (this is with the caveat that I think his individually performances has been good, but the total outlay on midfield and the dysfunction we STILL have there maybe shows he may have not been the right option, possibly a more mobile partner for Pogba was required.)
Zlatan (I think on a free he did a good job and had a good season, unfortunate he got injured when he did)

We have just spent another 54m on CM after having spent 130m on CM previously and it still not looking like a functioning, settled area of the pitch.

I'm gonna disagree with you on everyone bar Mhiki. Lindelof & Sanchez it's too soon to judge them.
Pogba has been good for us, he could've been better yes but he's been good, and certainly hasn't been poor.

Because it was reported by a few outlets (albeit not BBC at the time) that there was interest but wages were a big issue.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...arcos-rojo-man-utd-wage-demands-could-derail/

Blind is not comparable. He only had a 1 year extension on his contract. Rojo has a meaty 4 years at high wages. No club will pay a stupid £25m fee for a player we got for £16m and don't play whatsoever, plus match silly players wages for. Which is why we should have flogged him even if it meant bringing Alderwierald for £30m as you put it.

So surely you can see £60m is also a stupid fee for Toby. I'm struggling to see why Tottenham would've agreed to wanting Rojo as replacement for him because he's not a similar defender, and Tottenham's defence is one of their most stable positions.

 

[Mainoldo]

I take it you missed his press conference yesterday? You should search it out.

Yes and I seen his pre season ones. Do they just get ignored. He was exactly like this at his last days at Chelsea.

 

[Renegade]

Sums it up for me.

6 of Jose's wish team would be about 30 y.o. On top of it, such a team would not be very likely to challenge City who have a younger team. What's the point then? To finsih 2nd or 3rd?

Liverpool have a younger team too, much younger actually.

Short-term fixes make sense if they make us clearly better, e.g. Godin. Short-term fixes to finish 2nd again do not make much sense.

He would then want to spend £50m replacing Matic the following season, then another £100m replacing Sanchez the following. That isn’t sustainable.

 

[Patrick08]

Sums it up for me.

6 of Jose's wish team would be about 30 y.o. On top of it, such a team would not be very likely to challenge City who have a younger team. What's the point then? To finsih 2nd or 3rd?

Liverpool have a younger team too, much younger actually.

Short-term fixes make sense if they make us clearly better, e.g. Godin. Short-term fixes to finish 2nd again do not make much sense.

Toby deal made sense as well. Any footballing person including our own former defenders agreed on it.

You cant see every transfer as an isolated event and then decide accordingly. He would have improved our style of play and also defensive efficiency in our box which players like Smalling and Jones and Rojo cant do and the injuries in that department are a night mare.

 

[MUFC OK]

I'm baffled we didn't go for Toby, it's a deal that makes sense for both parties. They will now either lose him for free next year or with a £25m release clause. I'm calling it now, I expect Liverpool to sign him. They will be all over that.

 

[Patrick08]

Mourinho has finally been ‘found-out’ - his dismal approach to the game will see him off very soon - with no major club willing to take him on - adios Jose.

What about Woodward?

 

[Treble]

Toby deal made sense as well. Any footballing person including our own former defenders agreed on it.

You cant see every transfer as an isolated event and then decide accordingly. He would have improved our style of play and also defensive efficiency in our box which players like Smalling and Jones and Rojo cant do and the injuries in that department are a night mare.

At 60m? He was injured for many months not long ago and will be 30 soon.

 

[The_Midfielder]

why do you want to spend money on players. Let the Glazers buy a new yacht ..

 

[Renegade]

I'm baffled we didn't go for Toby, it's a deal that makes sense for both parties. They will now either lose him for free next year or with a £25m release clause. I'm calling it now, I expect Liverpool to sign him. They will be all over that.

We did go for him by all accounts. It’s not Woodward’s fault Levy is a bastard to deal with. We shouldn’t be held random to Spurs demands. We need to learn from our lessons.

 

[VP89]

I'm gonna disagree with you on everyone bar Mhiki. Lindelof & Sanchez it's too soon to judge them.
Pogba has been good for us, he could've been better yes but he's been good, and certainly hasn't been poor.



So surely you can see £60m is also a stupid fee for Toby. I'm struggling to see why Tottenham would've agreed to wanting Rojo as replacement for him because he's not a similar defender, and Tottenham's defence is one of their most stable positions.

But it wasn't £60m for Toby. It was part cash part "5th choice Centre back" who we would struggle to flog off anyway.

 

[Treble]

Jose wanted a team with Valencia, Young, Toby, Matic, Willian and Sanchez, that is a team with 6 players 30 y.o. in the starting XI.

Liverpool don't have a SINGLE 30 y.o in their first XI!

City have 2 or 3 and don't have a top replacement for only 1 of them - Fernandinho.

It's easy to see why the board were reluctant to pay top dollar for players who would make our first XI much older than that of City and Liverpool.

 

[Patrick08]

At 60m? He was injured for many months not long ago and will be 30 soon.

May be 50-55 plus addons or plus a player involved with less money. Totally.

He would have mourinho defensive stability and something to build on so that he does not have to play so negatively in big games with poor fullbacks and leaky defense.

A football person knows that it was so important to improve in both boxes. And we have stagnated with Smalling and Jones and Rojo.

 

[2cents]

Hard to take sides here. All the obvious fallbacks of hiring Mourinho in the first place look to be coming to fruition, and right now a meltdown feels as likely as a top 4 finish. The board can’t fail to have noticed. Planning now for the post-Mourinho period makes sense.

On the other hand, the board are completely inept, have shown zero indication that they understand anything about United or football in general, and there remains the suspicion that they’re happy just ticking along with top 4 finishes and the odd cup. The way this club has been run since 2013 (or since 2009 or 2005 you could argue with a lot of justification) has been criminal. Impossible to trust any of these feckers to do what’s right.

 

[The_Midfielder]

Jose wanted a team with Valencia, Young, Toby, Matic, Willian and Sanchez, that is a team with 6 players 30 y.o. in the starting XI.

Liverpool don't have a SINGLE 30 y.o in their first XI!

City have 2 or 3 and don't have a top replacement for only 1 of them - Fernandinho.

It's easy to see why the board were reluctant to pay top dollar for players who would make our first XI much older than that of City and Liverpool.

if he won the league and stabilized the team , would we have cried over signing 30 year old.. I feel we are going the Arsenal way now.. hopefully we get top 4..

 

[GBBQ]

To all the people delighted at this briefing by Woodward, because they think it will bring about the demise of their bogeyman Jose I have a question...

Obviously if Jose goes everything will be right with the world...Players will somehow unlock hidden potential, form will improve and City will somehow throw away 10-15 points more.

But the question I have is what do you think all our potential new Managers will be thinking after reading this briefing?

How easily Woodward is played by agents / execs of other teams.
How the club has over £100m to spend on the right player.
How Woodward goes behind your back and briefs against you in the press, no matter how successful your record as a manager
How an accountant with no footballing knowledge is somehow calling the shots and influencing the owners to not back the manager.

If any of these thoughts cross the mind of our potential next new Manager then maybe they will just not bother to answer when Ed starts ringing around to look for interested candidates.

I'm not interested in the debate about player x or y or justifying spending. All of this should have been handled in private in a professional way - we should not be hearing about it until years later.

People go on about Mourinho's sulphurous reputation in the media, being seen as a poor example etc and it makes me laugh, when we have a guy behaving with all the grace, style and professionalism of a sewer rat in charge of the club

I'm happy with the briefing because it shows we weren't running around like headless chickens trying to buy Zouma or Godin on transfer deadline day. As a fan it was nice to have context to how the window played out. This window was always going to be difficult and we weren't the only clubs who were underwhelming here.

However at no stage do I want this to result in Mourinho going out. I agree with what @Pogue Mahone said in that the timing is lousy and this tit for tat shit in the media isn't doing the club any favours, but on a purely personal level it paints a much better picture of our dealings on a transfer level.

I think if we are to get back to the top we need both sides to cop the feck on and to portray a united front and leave the bitching behind doors. Mourinho needs to at least act happy to be managing the biggest club in the world and Woodward needs to bring in the staff to make sure we get the right players in when needed. Neither side is blameless here but we're just a laughing stock the way things are going.

Anyway 4-0 United tonight and we close this thread for good.

 

[Treble]

if he won the league and stabilized the team , would we have cried over signing 30 year old.. I feel we are going the Arsenal way now.. hopefully we get top 4..

That's a HUGE IF though. The board decided that it's not likely to happen. Given Mourinho's history to date - quick success and a 3rd year meltdown - they didn't quite believe that Toby and Willian would be game-changers. Maybe Jose will prove them wrong and have a great 3rd season. Chances are it won't happen.