The beginning of the end... (the original board vetoed Mourinho's transfer wish list thread)

[#07]

People acting like we don’t have a DoF when Sir Alex is still around. If you’re woody and you want an opinion on the direction the current manager is taking, you wouldn't need to be a genius to think of picking up the phone. Even more so, do we think Sir Alex just keeps his mouth shut when he’s at the club.

The so-called footballing board, upon which Sir Alex and Sir Bobby sit, has no power. Its well documented that the corporate board, which is Woodward and the Glazers, makes all the actual decisions. They kept the football board around as a token gesture for the fans.

I can't believe you think that Sir Alex has had any input into Ed Woodward undermining a Man Utd manager. Sir Alex has always insisted that at any club the manager must be the most important person. He even asked for Mourinho's permission to travel on the team bus because he didn't want to seem like he was getting in the way.

Sir Alex's legacy is being trashed at the moment. The structure he built, where the manager made the footballing decisions, is being torn to pieces before our eyes and 'sources' at the club are boasting about it to their journo friends. Sickening.

 

[noodlehair]

@Dante and @MikeUpNorth are spot on!! Nothing to add except this.

As a member of several corporate boards I have learned from senior colleagues a few basic rules. These rules are none questionable.

1. You don’t brief the media about your own shortcomings. That’s plain stupid. Why? You open up a can of worms you can’t control.

2. You don’t start a public war against your own manager. How crazy is that!? That’s beyond stupid! Almost corporate suicide. Internal disagreements you keep in-house, rule number one on every corporate level.

3. If the board disagrees with the manager they either talk to him, give him a frame or specific orders how to operate, or sack him. What else!? Going public about why, who and how is borderline incompetence. Woodward basically gave away our future transfer plans. How wise is that!?

4. The last rule. The most important one. Listen now Edward and repeat 100 times until you learn.
# You have faith in your manager/CEO until you don’t have faith!!! Next step is to sack him, not go public with pathetic excuses.


04.45 in the morning. I’m reading this and almost lost for words. Fecking hell !

Which is why I doubt this is direct from Woodward or actually has all that much truth in it.

What it does show you is that for all the misgivings people have had over LVG, Moyes and Mourinho, there are bigger problems going on above them.

We've signed Zlatan, Sanchez, Schweinsteiger, Falcao, Matic, etc. in recent years. Now we're being told signing a 30 year old doesn't fit in with the clubs strategy of avoiding older players or players with bad injury records. This is either a lie or the strategy changes from one day or player to the next....which would make any manager's job next to impossible.

The problem with Woodward is it's been obvious what he is like from day one, but whenever it's been brought up in the past, under Moyes or LVG and even under Jose, the comeback has been "you don't know what he does"...but we do know what he does, because what he does is constantly leaked to the press, or if it isn't he is directly meeting the press and explaining it. Or our last two managers who he has sacked are telling everyone what he does. There is no doubt left that he is terrible at his job. Either that or all of these leaks are lies, LVG is a liar, Moyes is a liar. Jose is a liar.

Even the sponsorship deals argument is a short term argument, as sponsorship deals depend greatly on the team's popularity and success. And even now Jose has been coming into more stick than Wooodward for our transfer dealings...if he gave a list of name and the club didn't bother trying to sign them or come up with any alternatives or alternative strategy, then there is zero blame to place on Mourinho, even if the list he gave was a bad one.

 

[Litch]

Like you I feel very uneasy about a CEO, with no footballing pedigree whatsoever, making decisions about who is, and who isn't, a viable target in the transfer market, on the basis of their perceived ability to organise in a team on a football pitch. And anyone who thinks these sorts of pronouncements from above will benefit any future, incoming manager, really need to look at how pernicious such interventions will become when they ( the manager ) have to start considering the CEO in footballing matters.

Woodward is overstepping his remit, and in second guessing the manager's intentions with regards to the suitability of players, he is inserting himself into the discussion about how to organise the team on the pitch. Which has has nothing to do with him, especially given his underwhelming knowledge about the sport in general.

Whether JS is the right man for the job is immaterial, but Ed will use other people's misgivings to garner support, and help snap his employee back into line, without much decent from the supporting rank-and-file; but this is indeed the slippery slope where the running of the club is concerned, and people should be aware of how dangerous it could become to have a CEO with a Napoleon Complex, especially one who is recoginised by the ownership as being the most important individual in their money-making venture.

He's been doing this from day 1 like all the CEO's in the world of football. If you are making decisions about the purchase of players, then you are influencing who turns out on the pitch. If we have 5 CB's it's his job to question why we need a 6th. Isnt that a football decision? Jose needs to be able to justify this when he agreed to give one of them who's often injured only recently a long contract.

 

[JPRouve]

The so-called footballing board, upon which Sir Alex and Sir Bobby sit, has no power. Its well documented that the corporate board, which is Woodward and the Glazers, makes all the actual decisions. They kept the football board around as a token gesture for the fans.

I can't believe you think that Sir Alex has had any input into Ed Woodward undermining a Man Utd manager. Sir Alex has always insisted that at any club the manager must be the most important person. He even asked for Mourinho's permission to travel on the team bus because he didn't want to seem like he was getting in the way.

Sir Alex's legacy is being trashed at the moment. The structure he built, where the manager made the footballing decisions, is being torn to pieces before our eyes and 'sources' at the club are boasting about it to their journo friends. Sickening.

The last sentence is wrong, that structure was built by SAF for SAF. The man was truly exceptional and had the ability to take a step back and delegate to the correct people, there isn't anyone like him in football which makes his structure impossible for others. That issue is on the board, it's their job to fix it properly but they have tried to recreate a SAF with lesser men.

 

[whatagoodname]

Firstly, i hope Jose stays a couple of seasons. Please.

Not sure what Jose expected, he started the ball rolling by taking shots at the board a week ago about his list of players. All of this is completely self inflicted, not sure what anyone expected.

 

[edgar allan]

The so-called footballing board, upon which Sir Alex and Sir Bobby sit, has no power. Its well documented that the corporate board, which is Woodward and the Glazers, makes all the actual decisions. They kept the football board around as a token gesture for the fans.

I can't believe you think that Sir Alex has had any input into Ed Woodward undermining a Man Utd manager. Sir Alex has always insisted that at any club the manager must be the most important person. He even asked for Mourinho's permission to travel on the team bus because he didn't want to seem like he was getting in the way.

Sir Alex's legacy is being trashed at the moment. The structure he built, where the manager made the footballing decisions, is being torn to pieces before our eyes and 'sources' at the club are boasting about it to their journo friends. Sickening.

The legacy of Sir Alex and Sir Matt has been soiled more so with the appointment of Jose and his subsequent behaviour. The man is an embarrassment to the club and the sooner he is fired the better. He is destroying the bond between the club and the fans and is doing huge harm to our reputation.
We have issues with the ownership and the board however Jose is our number one problem at the moment.

 

[littlepeasoup]

Jose reminds me of a teenage girl, just looking for the older boys and who is hip. The board did everthing right, if they stopped his gerontophilia. Jose has to use his players or he has to go!

If the player does not fit, you must acquit.

 

[noodlehair]

There was a tweet I saw yesterday which fielded all the players that Mourinho has bought in a team sheet

It looked like;

GK
Dalot - Bailly - Lindelof - LB
Matic
Fred - Pogba

RW - Mhki - Sanchez
Lukaku

He's been backed by the board, out of all those players, only Mhiki have failed to deliver, and it's too soon to judge Sanchez & Lindelof.

It's staggering that he's not got a LB and a RW though, that surely should've been the priority.

Add to that Zlatan who was vital in his first season.

The fact is that whatever actually happens, Mourinho and Woodward would talk to each other about it. If the club decided x player wasn't worth the investment for whatever reason, Jose would be told that.

It probably quite suits him to have something like that being leaked because it points the finger of blame away from him.

 

[Patrick08]

It's really hilarious when Ed gives this briefing when he has also been the one bringing the likes of Schweinsteiger and Keeping fellani now givi giving him a two year contract and now suddenly his policy is to not bring 29 year olds.

 

[edgar allan]

Jose reminds me of a teenage girl, just looking for the older boys and who is hip. The board did everthing right, if they stopped his gerontophilia. Jose has to use his players or he has to go!

Are narcissism and gerontophilia linked conditions?

 

[Patrick08]

The legacy of Sir Alex and Sir Matt has been soiled more so with the appointment of Jose and his subsequent behaviour. The man is an embarrassment to the club and the sooner he is fired the better. He is destroying the bond between the club and the fans and is doing huge harm to our reputation.
We have issues with the ownership and the board however Jose is our number one problem at the moment.

Ed is number one problem who hires these managers and then does not support their way of working.

 

[Ban]

The legacy of Sir Alex and Sir Matt has been soiled more so with the appointment of Jose and his subsequent behaviour. The man is an embarrassment to the club and the sooner he is fired the better. He is destroying the bond between the club and the fans and is doing huge harm to our reputation.
We have issues with the ownership and the board however Jose is our number one problem at the moment.

If you think all will be nice and good when that devil you hate so much leaves and if you think he's the problem one they you're in for a rude awakening.

 

[Irish Jet]

Sir Alex's legacy is being trashed at the moment. The structure he built, where the manager made the footballing decisions, is being torn to pieces before our eyes and 'sources' at the club are boasting about it to their journo friends. Sickening.

Sir Alex is far from guilt free on this. His amazing management papered over huge cracks that were emerging long before he retired.

That said what Woodward is doing is simply disgraceful. He's a con-artist who's got form for peddling this sort of bullshit and fans still lap it up. He is ultimately responsible for appointing the manager and getting a coherent strategy into place. We haven't had anything resembling that throughout his tenure.

People bring everything back to Mourinho. He's ultimately irrelevant in this as far as I'm concerned because he's not here long term anyways. I'd have said the same if the manager were Moyes, LVG or John Carver - What's going behind the scenes is a shambles and the pathetic attempt to defend it, to undermine the manager in the process and the eve of the season no less is just a disgrace. Fan's lapping it up need to take a look at themselves.

 

[edgar allan]

It's really hilarious when Ed gives this briefing when he has also the one bringing the likes of Schweinsteiger and Keeping fellani now givi giving him a two year contract and now suddenly his policy is to not bring 29 year olds.

Jose wanted Fellaini to stay. I think he has finally learnt something from the signings of Schweinsteiger and Ibra, we were in danger of becoming a retirement home for players looking one last big wage and signing on fee.

 

[ZlatMan]

Which is why I doubt this is direct from Woodward or actually has all that much truth in it.

What it does show you is that for all the misgivings people have had over LVG, Moyes and Mourinho, there are bigger problems going on above them.

We've signed Zlatan, Sanchez, Schweinsteiger, Falcao, Matic, etc. in recent years. Now we're being told signing a 30 year old doesn't fit in with the clubs strategy of avoiding older players or players with bad injury records. This is either a lie or the strategy changes from one day or player to the next....which would make any manager's job next to impossible.

The problem with Woodward is it's been obvious what he is like from day one, but whenever it's been brought up in the past, under Moyes or LVG and even under Jose, the comeback has been "you don't know what he does"...but we do know what he does, because what he does is constantly leaked to the press, or if it isn't he is directly meeting the press and explaining it. Or our last two managers who he has sacked are telling everyone what he does. There is no doubt left that he is terrible at his job. Either that or all of these leaks are lies, LVG is a liar, Moyes is a liar. Jose is a liar.

Even the sponsorship deals argument is a short term argument, as sponsorship deals depend greatly on the team's popularity and success. And even now Jose has been coming into more stick than Wooodward for our transfer dealings...if he gave a list of name and the club didn't bother trying to sign them or come up with any alternatives or alternative strategy, then there is zero blame to place on Mourinho.

To all the Mourinho doubters on this place. Read this comment and grasp it well. The issue isn't the manager if the manager receive zero backing.

 

[Cheesy]

The so-called footballing board, upon which Sir Alex and Sir Bobby sit, has no power. Its well documented that the corporate board, which is Woodward and the Glazers, makes all the actual decisions. They kept the football board around as a token gesture for the fans.

I can't believe you think that Sir Alex has had any input into Ed Woodward undermining a Man Utd manager. Sir Alex has always insisted that at any club the manager must be the most important person. He even asked for Mourinho's permission to travel on the team bus because he didn't want to seem like he was getting in the way.

Sir Alex's legacy is being trashed at the moment. The structure he built, where the manager made the footballing decisions, is being torn to pieces before our eyes and 'sources' at the club are boasting about it to their journo friends. Sickening.

No it isn't. Fergie's legacy will remain in place no matter what happens to us. The idea that it somehow becomes deflated by failures after his departure is daft. If anything I'd say his reputation has been enhanced in that we've been allowed to see just how truly consistent we were under him even in some years that weren't exactly our greatest.

 

[edgar allan]

If you think all will be nice and good when that devil you hate so much leaves and if you think he's the problem one they you're in for a rude awakening.

It will be a rocky transition for sure but it will be like a breath of fresh air to our club

 

[Cheesy]

Jose wanted Fellaini to stay. I think he has finally learnt something from the signings of Schweinsteiger and Ibra, we were in danger of becoming a retirement home for players looking one last big wage and signing on fee.

Zlatan's signing made sense in that we managed to get a good year out of a talented player in the twilight of his career. Worked as a good stopgap until Lukaku came in. We should've been suspicious of Schweinsteiger coming in though when Bayern were so eager to sell. At the time it looked like an excellent signing - he wasn't exactly that old yet and seemed like the sort of player who could go on for a while because he relied more on his ability on the ball and footballing smarts than pace etc, but the fact Bayern seemed quite happy to shift a legend was suspect to say the least.

 

[edgar allan]

Ed is number one problem who hires these managers and then does not support their way of working.

He sure has made some dreadful mistakes with his choice of managers that is undeniable.

 

[Ban]

We have delayed the inevitable for far to long. It's time for King Eric.

Let's give it to Giggseh.

 

[AndyJ1985]

To all the Mourinho doubters on this place. Read this comment and grasp it well. The issue isn't the manager if the manager receive zero backing.

Pogba, Zlatan, Mkhitaryan, Matic, Bailly, Fred, Dalot, Lindelof, Lukaku, Sanchez

Zero backing indeed

 

[Patrick08]

Jose wanted Fellaini to stay. I think he has finally learnt something from the signings of Schweinsteiger and Ibra, we were in danger of becoming a retirement home for players looking one last big wage and signing on fee.

Anything of this sort does not apply to Toby. He was at the same age of Sanchez just costing more as levy di t give in. If Jose wanted Fellani to stay , Jose also wanted a centre back.

In the end We kept Fellani and dint sign a centre back. Hilarious.

 

[JPRouve]

No it isn't. Fergie's legacy will remain in place no matter what happens to us. The idea that it somehow becomes deflated by failures after his departure is daft. If anything I'd say his reputation has been enhanced in that we've been allowed to see just how truly consistent we were under him even in some years that weren't exactly our greatest.

Exactly. I really hope that at some point people will realize that United is a regular big club that had the honor to be managed by Sir Matt Busby and Sir Alex Ferguson, they are the individuals that made us special. We need to wake up, understand it, look at our rivals and adapt instead of clinging onto some sort of Mancunian exceptionalism.

 

[Speedicut75]

He's been doing this from day 1 like all the CEO's in the world of football. If you are making decisions about the purchase of players, then you are influencing who turns out on the pitch. If we have 5 CB's it's his job to question why we need a 6th. Isnt that a football decision? Jose needs to be able to justify this when he agreed to give one of them who's often injured only recently a long contract.

Then lets dispense with the facade of having a manger in the first place, if the CEO knows best in all facets of the game, and just let Woodward have free license to shape policy at all levels. If the action of the veto is all that's necessary then Woodward should be able to manage the team by proxy in any capacity he pleases. No dout JS should do better with what's available, but I don't like an unqualified little briefing-junkie exploiting the situation when he uses the popularity ( or lack there of ) of a colleague to hide his own inadequacies

 

[ZlatMan]

Pogba, Zlatan, Mkhitaryan, Matic, Bailly, Fred, Dalot, Lindelof, Lukaku, Sanchez

Zero backing indeed

Then why no backing this window? Care to explain that?

 

[Snafu17]

Really, this a absolutely laughable. This fecking thing happens every single window with every single manager here including SAF. That's the boards job. The media are making it sound likes it's something new with the usual underhanded bullshit when it comes to reporting about us. Let's not forget the context of this against the most bizarre window across Europe since the 'concept' of a transfer window started.

That said, I have 5 cars on my drive, my wife is in her right to ask me why I want another, and then ask me to sell a couple just to physically make room for another even if it's not about how much it costs....

Not, if she agreed with her ex to bring in 3 of the cars which are either always broken down or just not that great. It might suggest she's not the one who should be making decisions about cars anyway.

 

[villain]

Add to that Zlatan who was vital in his first season.

The fact is that whatever actually happens, Mourinho and Woodward would talk to each other about it. If the club decided x player wasn't worth the investment for whatever reason, Jose would be told that.

It probably quite suits him to have something like that being leaked because it points the finger of blame away from him.

Interesting, I do think our board has different interests with Mourinho.
I think Mourinho wanted to win the league this season, in lieu of us having so much deadwood to shift next summer, which would've made it unlikely/almost impossible to win the league next season while trying to bed in a bunch of players.
I think the board took on Mourinho as a sure fire bet to guarantee CL every season and retain the club's image globally, but whether we win the league this year, next year or whenever isn't a matter of any real urgency.

 

[VP89]

The club has bought him 2 CBs in 2 summers, the fact that CB again is his priority means there is an issue.

One suffered major ankle injury and yes the other was quite a flop so far. But if the reports are to be believed he wanted the option to adjust to a 3 which makes the required need for another centre back a bit more plausible. Particularly given we offloaded Blind.

 

[Patrick08]

Exactly. I really hope that at some point people will realize that United is a regular big club that had the honor to be managed by Sir Matt Busby and Sir Alex Ferguson, they are the individuals that made us special. We need to wake up, understand it, look at our rivals and adapt instead of clinging onto some sort of Mancunian exceptionalism.

Things changed after the Glazers put Woodward in charge. If the manager is in charge this would be the same Manchester united.

 

[edgar allan]

Zlatan's signing made sense in that we managed to get a good year out of a talented player in the twilight of his career. Worked as a good stopgap until Lukaku came in. We should've been suspicious of Schweinsteiger coming in though when Bayern were so eager to sell. At the time it looked like an excellent signing - he wasn't exactly that old yet and seemed like the sort of player who could go on for a while because he relied more on his ability on the ball and footballing smarts than pace etc, but the fact Bayern seemed quite happy to shift a legend was suspect to say the least.

I can't say I watch any German football but the reports I heard were that his knees were done before we signed him. For LVG Ed was a yes man and we got burnt by that.
He was a yes man for Jose and has fully backed him until it has become finally apparent that Jose is not going to deliver on his huge investment. Rightly his transfers are now being scrutinised closely, we may well take a short term hit but if hastens the end of Jose at the club then it will be worth it.

 

[JPRouve]

Things changed after the Glazers put Woodward in charge. If the manager is in charge this would be the same Manchester united.

No it wouldn't, we lost SAF.

Edit: Just to make it perfectly clear, SAF and Sir Matt Busby have 18 out of the 20 league titles won by United, 3 out 3 CL. Put together they represent 50 years of United's management. Life without them isn't business as usual.

 

[Cheesy]

Exactly. I really hope that at some point people will realize that United is a regular big club that had the honor to be managed by Sir Matt Busby and Sir Alex Ferguson, they are the individuals that made us special. We need to wake up, understand it, look at our rivals and adapt instead of clinging onto some sort of Mancunian exceptionalism.

It's a really strange notion. No one looks back on Busby poorly because of what happened after his tenure - again, if anything it made him more revered because until Fergie came in no one even came close to emulating what he'd achieved here.

If there's any criticism that can be made of Fergie then it's pushing for Moyes as his successor, but that's hardly something legacy-tarnishing.

 

[Burrow]

I would have no problems with the board taking a stance on our transfer targets, if there was a single person on there with any sort of football knowledge. As it stands, Mourinho is by far the best at our club to recognise what the team needs, and should be backed.

It all makes me want to root for Jose ever more now.

 

[edgar allan]

Anything of this sort does not apply to Toby. He was at the same age of Sanchez just costing more as levy di t give in. If Jose wanted Fellani to stay , Jose also wanted a centre back.

In the end We kept Fellani and dint sign a centre back. Hilarious.

I take your point regarding Toby but I have concerns as to why Spurs would be happy to sell him however to date we have been well burnt by the Sanchez transfer so that has likely heightened the transfer concerns.

 

[noodlehair]

Pogba, Zlatan, Mkhitaryan, Matic, Bailly, Fred, Dalot, Lindelof, Lukaku, Sanchez

Zero backing indeed

Which is why it makes no sense. We're not going to back our manager, and are going to leak that we don't back our manager...but we're still going to keep him and sign a couple of the players he wanted.

Whatever side you look at it from it is either not true or makes the club look utterly stupid.

 

[Ferguson]

If the story is true, which I don't believe it is, then my sympathies are divided.

On the one hand, no one should be bigger than the manager at our club, as Fergie often said in the past. Woodward and the board are not qualified to overrule Mourinho's judgment on football matters.

On the other hand, I actually agree with keeping Martial and spending big on players with more years to give. I believe this is what Sir Alex meant when he talked about no value in the market.

When United go for older players it is usually at a lower price, in the last year of their contract. Older players are attracted to the wages at United, so we shouldn't need to prise them away.

United spend big on players in their teens and twenties, not about to enter their thirties. It would be different if we were skint at centre back, but the fact is that Mourinho spent big on Lindelof and Bailly, so he should play the players he has. Unless he wants to switch to a back three, in which case I can sympathize more.

I think Sir Alex agreed with the board about the transfer policy, so it never came down to him being overruled. Mourinho is used to Chelsea and Real Madrid and Italy where older players are preferred. In any case, I doubt the truth is as cut and dry as the journalists make it out to be. There is probably more understanding between Mourinho and Woodward than the reports of disagreement might suggest.

 

[Born2Lose]

Then why no backing this window? Care to explain that?

Maybe they spent £35m on a center back last season that hasn't looked anywhere near good enough and resent buying another one based on Mourinho's previous decisions. Thankfully, even Woodward isn't stupid enough to waste £70m on Willian.

You're like Mourinho, it's always easy to spend somebody else's money.

 

[Patrick08]

No it wouldn't, we lost SAF.

That's your interpretation, A manager knows what players he needs to succeed. If you give him those he will surely deliver success.

I can put pep in the same board he will struggle to win because Woodward would question his Repeated spending on Cb's and right wingers as well and so much money on fullbacks as well.

Saf was human too. He dint have a magic wand to deliver success. He had a super strong character and sense of judgement and full backing, the backing is not there with Woodward who pays no attention to football matters other than getting top4 for financial security.

 

[Cassidy]

One suffered major ankle injury and yes the other was quite a flop so far. But if the reports are to be believed he wanted the option to adjust to a 3 which makes the required need for another centre back a bit more plausible. Particularly given we offloaded Blind.

We didn't have to offload Blind, if Jose wanted to use him so we could play a back 3. We have 5 first team CBs we also have Tuanzebe on the books, he can adjust to a 3 with what we have.
I think the main point was that we needed to offload someone to bring someone in, unless the player bring brought in was of sufficient quality.

Personally I would have brought in Toby.
I am 100% in agreement with the board about both Boateng (far too injury prone) and Maguire (Not good enough and far too expensive)

 

[VP89]

That's the thing though, we wouldn't have been 'flogging' Rojo, Everton were reported to be interested in paying £30m for him, there was nothing to suggest that Spurs would've taken him, given he doesn't fir their profile of CB's. So even if that deal went through it wouldn't have been that we got Toby for £30m, we still would've been paying above and beyond the amount.
And if we did concede that much it would've set a precedent for future summer transfer windows when we are trying to shift deadwood.

Rojo interest was unknown in terms of how advanced it was from Everton. It never really hit BBC if I remember correctly and Simon Stone said that it was our fifth choice cb for theirs (Spurs). Which means it was probably Rojo we would have part traded for Toby.

In terms of shifting deadwood, now would have been the best time to flog him. We aren't suddenly going to get a good fee in Jan or Summer as he runs down his contract and continues to play zero minutes. Best we could have done is part exchange plus cash for Toby (again reasonable to assume it was him in the exchange as BBC said it was our 5th choice cb).

In any case it's done now. I just don't buy the concept that the board did the right thing. If they got a RW or even a LB or something to compliment Fred then fair enough. But missing out on a RW, LB and then a CB on top is pretty ridiculous.