The beginning of the end... (the original board vetoed Mourinho's transfer wish list thread)

[VP89]

Cash plus player wouldn't have taken the price tag down a fair bit. Rojo was valued at approx £30m, that's half the valuation that spurs put on Toby. So if we were trying to do a player + cash deal with Spurs (I don't think we were) then Rojo + £30m is still an exuberant fee that I don't blame for the board for backing out of.

Simon Stone says we were exchanging players so I totally believe that tbf given his credibility.

Also, we didn't play Rojo one bit last season and probably won't play him this season. Getting him off our books and paying an amount we'd probably pay in Jan or seasons end anyway seems completely fine.

Either wait a year and get Toby for 25m or get Toby for 30m now and flog Rojo who we actively are trying to clear and don't play anyway.

Seems silly we didn't act. Especially considering we failed on identifying right wingers and left backs on top. The least we could have done is solved the CB request.

 

[Murray3007]

If the board are going to take decisions by themselves, they might as well sack Mourinho if they're won't fulfill his requests. The manager must have full backing of the club and if the club won't support the manager fully, they are going to run into problems. What a disgrace that they are doing it to Mourinho when they had no issue throwing money senselessly when LVG was in charge. This shambles of a window has given the glimpse of the ambition of this board want.

We are becoming the new Arsenal.

we have given Mourinho everything he's wanted the last 2 seasons and the football has been dreadful, we spunked out a world record fee and he has no idea how to get the best out of him, purchased 2 CB's as well yet now he wants another because they aint been good enough for us. gave him sanchez when he wanted him and again he aint been able to get the best out of him while alienating our 2 most exciting prospects.

 

[Naz]

This is ignoring two major points:

1. The club have spent decent money on two central defenders for Mourinho during his reign, Lindeloff is struggling and for some reason Mourinho wouldn't play Bailly towards the end of the season. You can understand why they might want to ensure that whoever we buy is a proper upgrade and most of the names mentioned were dubious at best.
2. The press briefing was a single story to explain the transfer window versus Mourinho continually making complaints about our transfer activity. The self sabotage started weeks ago at least the Board's story provides some context.

I don't think many football fans rate Utd's transfer activity but why is the CEO pointing the figure very firmly at his manager even if he does have a point, I do not for one minute think Utd are about to fire Mourinho but why do this? On a human level I do not like it at all.

Woodward agreed and possibly encouraged the inflated transfer fees and wages (See BBC for Sanchez contract details) so they too are culpable.

The entire management structure of Utd needs to go

 

[Resch]

Jose reminds me of a teenage girl, just looking for the older boys and who is hip. The board did everthing right, if they stopped his gerontophilia. Jose has to use his players or he has to go!

 

[settembrini]

United waiting until the window is closed to brag to the press about how we could have spent £100m on one player if we wanted while our team is weak in several positions... good one chaps, that makes you sound very smart indeed.

 

[7even]

But it's Mourinho who went public and first started this.

I am sure Saf many times didn't get what he wanted and those years towards the end were way more. Penny pinching by us but he always presented a united face and worked as a team with David Gill.

Mourinho just wants to stay away from transfer activity and put Blame somewhere else.

Three rules a corporate board has to follow.

1. Don’t get emotional
2. Don’t get personal
3. Don’t react to outside distractions

Whatever Mourinho do in public is up to him. The day the board have enough there is only one solution. Sack him!! Go public is for amateurs.

Another two extremely important rules to follow.

1. Never explain your actions in public
2. Never defend yourself or your decisions

If Edward Woodward means business he and the board must learn to act professional. Right now the club is a mess.

Btw. They have to sack the manager before key players want to jump the ship. That’s the outcome of incompetence and serial poor decision. Thanks Ed!!

 

[B20]

There's an upside for the martial clan though.

If Woodward is vetoing deals like this he is probably also vetoing Mourinho’s efforts to replace martial with Perisic. Looking out for the future manager.

 

[Buchan]

I'm with the board on this one.
Toby is a great defender but for the £65m that was reported - it's throwing money down the drain quite frankly.
In 6 months he'll be available for £25m and in 12 months he'll be free.

Maguire reportedly would've cost over £80m, that's absolute madness - we shouldn't be held hostage to high fees just because we can afford to pay them.

Willian £60m? A joke.

100% agreed. It’s sad to see emotional, juvenile nonsense so rampant in any transfer-related threads on this site. Fans like these are better off sticking to Football Manager and getting their cheap thrills there. The board are hugely vindicated this summer. There’s no way the players touted are worth the fees being mentioned.

I like Mourinho, and have defended him stoutly in the past, but I sincerely wish he’d get on with the job and quit the whining over transfers. It’s his job to come up with the formula to make us real challengers again. We’ve definitely improved under his stewardship, and there’s definitely a more ‘feel good’ factor around the club compared to the Moyes and van Gaal days (bar the last few weeks when infantiles are moaning incessantly about transfers), so it would be a shame to throw all that down the pan all because we didn’t sign a centre-back who’s not much better than what we have for an extortionate amount of money. Just get on with the job, José, that’s what you’re good at.

 

[Bastian]

This is ignoring two major points:

1. The club have spent decent money on two central defenders for Mourinho during his reign, Lindeloff is struggling and for some reason Mourinho wouldn't play Bailly towards the end of the season. You can understand why they might want to ensure that whoever we buy is a proper upgrade and most of the names mentioned were dubious at best.
2. The press briefing was a single story to explain the transfer window versus Mourinho continually making complaints about our transfer activity. The self sabotage started weeks ago at least the Board's story provides some context.

1. The point has been made that he's bought two young defenders for relatively low sums of money and that he wanted to get an experienced proven defender in as those he has that are experienced aren't the quality required.
2. My view is radically different to yours. If that is providing context then why don't they expand on it? Now, the major and obvious points you ignore are following:

1. Why did the board not come up with suitable alternatives to Jose's targets?
2. Why did they wait up until the day before our season opener to "provide context" as you put it, or throw him in the fire as I see it?

You can spin this any which way you want, the board comes out of this looking like absolute twats.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Jose reminds me of a teenage girl, just looking for the older boys and who is hip. The board did everthing right, if they stopped his gerontophilia. Jose has to use his players or he has to go!

So not signing players even though we apparently had the funds and were willing to pay £100mil on one CB is doing everything right?

Don't use this as a bash Jose stick, because no one comes out of this looking good.

 

[Litch]

Hiring and firing managers, of which they failed at twice, us different to judging players.

Failure is part of football isn't it. Most on here have never played the game beyond turning out for the local 'dog and duck' and even then probably weren't that good. Most on here aren't pioneers of industry with portfolios worth millions of pounds either BUT to a man we seems to be the best coaches, scouts, accountants, businessmen...etc. Fans have massive influence on clubs but that's informed from watching in the stands or from the sofa. We watch YouTube videos and become expert scouts of someone's talent.

Why shouldn't they be any more informed about players than we think we are? If you were promoted to the board tomorrow, you'd be exactly the same.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

You being one of them, coming in crying about a thread you don't like that you could have easily avoided. And if you don't like the threads being ruined by people of your ilk then there are other websites you can visit instead.

Oh do shut up. I an not the only one who can’t enjoy threads due to people ruining them all with Mourinho bashing and constant doom and gloom.

I like this website because I love the club, but some of you lot have nothing good to say and just whinge.

 

[AndyJ1985]

Tension, tention, you know what I mean.

Don’t enter the thread if I don’t like them? Literally every thread is derailed by negativity. It is hard to avoid them when every thread is ruined by cry babies.

Threads aren't ruined by negativity. It's possible to heve a perfectly civilised discussion about what's wrong with our club. What ruins the discussion are people like you moaning about threads, moaning about the people taking part in the discussion, and generally making things personal. What do you think calling people cry babies brings to the thread?

 

[buckooo1978]

It's such a dick move to be briefing against our own manager. Well done Ed - you have really surpassed yourself this time!

Effective CEO's deal with conflict and arguments over approach all the time, but what they do is they keep their dirty linen behind closed doors, not gossip and bitch behind peoples backs.

Whenever you see an ineffective manager, clearly out of their depth, what do they spend most of their time on? Self justification and bitching to others about how hard they are working, how unappreciated they are...Wah Wah wah!

The board should take decisive action and remove Woodward immediately. His record of serial incompetence in transfer dealings grows every year and I'm sick of it.

The Godin situation shows he is clearly seen as a joke amongst other clubs.

Whether you are a fan of Jose or not, whether you agree with long term or short term thinking it doesn't matter. Managers have come and gone. Scouting experts like Ribalta have come and gone. He may be great at corporate sponsorship deals, but he should not be allowed within spitting distance of anything to do with Manager / team / player decisions.

This toxic little shrimp needs to be out of the club and replaced with someone that has some actual experience of managing a football club. We need someone with gravitas and who is not seen as a joke by all the agents and executives in other teams.

I know some will swallow Woodward's bullshit and will blame Jose for this. So if he goes do you have confidence in Ed's ability to choose the 4th manager since Fergie retired? I wouldn't trust him to sort out my Nan's weekly shop!

agree in the respect that Woodward isn't a football man

feels like politics at this point and there's been a few occasions when Jose has had a pop at the board too

we do need fundamental changes and I'd expect us to be looking for a Dof and new manager in the background

 

[cyberman]

I'm with the board on this one.
Toby is a great defender but for the £65m that was reported - it's throwing money down the drain quite frankly.
In 6 months he'll be available for £25m and in 12 months he'll be free.

Maguire reportedly would've cost over £80m, that's absolute madness - we shouldn't be held hostage to high fees just because we can afford to pay them.

Willian £60m? A joke.

We have no idea who was on the list since the board vetoed it so approaches wouldn't have been made.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Threads aren't ruined by negativity. It's possible to heve a perfectly civilised discussion about what's wrong with our club. What ruins the discussion are people like you moaning about threads, moaning about the people taking part in the didcuddion, and generally making things personal. What do you think calling people cry babies brings to the thread?

Mate there is a difference between discussions about the club and people blaming every thing on the manager and acting like the club were in a relegation battle last season.

 

[Greck]

We have no idea who was on the list since the board vetoed it so approaches wouldn't be made.

They didn't veto it on sight. Enquiries were made, ridiculous prices were demanded, then came the veto.

 

[Litch]

Oh do shut up. I an not the only one who can’t enjoy threads due to people ruining them all with Mourinho bashing and constant doom and gloom.

I like this website because I love the club, but some of you lot have nothing good to say and just whinge.

Agree. This summer has been particularly toxic.

 

[Escobar]

United waiting until the window is closed to brag to the press about how we could have spent £100m on one player if we wanted while our team is weak in several positions... good one chaps, that makes you sound very smart indeed.

Good point. Makes them look even more incompetent

 

[spiriticon]

I do believe once Jose opened his mouth this summer to the press he was on his last legs.

I feel that the search for a new manager is now on. Jose may see out his contract, but I would be dead surprised if he got an extension past 2020.

 

[ZlatMan]

we have given Mourinho everything he's wanted the last 2 seasons and the football has been dreadful, we spunked out a world record fee and he has no idea how to get the best out of him, purchased 2 CB's as well yet now he wants another because they aint been good enough for us. gave him sanchez when he wanted him and again he aint been able to get the best out of him while alienating our 2 most exciting prospects.

No, the reason why Mourinho got backing in his two seasons is because the aim is to get into the Champions league. He did it twice while winning silverware and achieving our highest finish in five years so he deserve a lot more support from the Glazers but when Mourinho want to build a team to go toe to toe with built, the Glazers think he's asking too much.

The board is stuck in fairyland. They think Mourinho is some magician who can grab a league and European titles out of a hat while spending little like Sir Alex. Mourinho is not Sir Alex and he's not going to win the big titles unless he get full backing in the market.

 

[cyberman]

They didn't veto it on sight. Enquiries were made, ridiculous prices were demanded, then came the veto.

I could have told you how much Willian and Toby would cost 6 months ago!
These aren't state secrets.
I still don't believe we were ever in for Willian. That seems to have been a Barca saga, not ours.

 

[Water Melon]

He extended his contract half a year ago. I repeat, half a year ago. He hasn't learnt shit, you're deluding yourself if you really think so.

The mere fact that he declined to bend over Jose and is however ready to spend big if it makes sense is quite telling to me. However, Jose is going the way he had already gone at Chelsea and Madrid. This season is going to be quite dramatic.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

No, the reason why Mourinho got backing in his two seasons is because the aim is to get into the Champions league. He did it twice while winning silverware and achieving our highest finish in five years so he deserve a lot more support from the Glazers but when Mourinho want to build a team to go toe to toe with built, the Glazers think he's asking too much.

The board is stuck in fairyland. They think Mourinho is some magician who can grab a league and European titles out of a hat while spending little like Sir Alex. Mourinho is not Sir Alex and he's not going to win the big titles unless he get full backing in the market.

Yeah, that's why they have backed him with the second largest outlay in history. You make it sound like they are doing a Mike Ashley on Mourinho.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Genuine question

What do scouts do?

Do they find players and report them to the manager, or Woodward? Or does Mourinho just watch TV, find players he likes?

 

[villain]

Simon Stone says we were exchanging players so I totally believe that tbf given his credibility.

Also, we didn't play Rojo one bit last season and probably won't play him this season. Getting him off our books and paying an amount we'd probably pay in Jan or seasons end anyway seems completely fine.

Either wait a year and get Toby for 25m or get Toby for 30m now and flog Rojo who we actively are trying to clear and don't play anyway.

Seems silly we didn't act. Especially considering we failed on identifying right wingers and left backs on top. The least we could have done is solved the CB request.

That's the thing though, we wouldn't have been 'flogging' Rojo, Everton were reported to be interested in paying £30m for him, there was nothing to suggest that Spurs would've taken him, given he doesn't fir their profile of CB's. So even if that deal went through it wouldn't have been that we got Toby for £30m, we still would've been paying above and beyond the amount.
And if we did concede that much it would've set a precedent for future summer transfer windows when we are trying to shift deadwood.

100% agreed. It’s sad to see emotional, juvenile nonsense so rampant in any transfer-related threads on this site. Fans like these are better off sticking to Football Manager and getting their cheap thrills there. The board are hugely vindicated this summer. There’s no way the players touted are worth the fees being mentioned.

I like Mourinho, and have defended him stoutly in the past, but I sincerely wish he’d get on with the job and quit the whining over transfers. It’s his job to come up with the formula to make us real challengers again. We’ve definitely improved under his stewardship, and there’s definitely a more ‘feel good’ factor around the club compared to the Moyes and van Gaal days (bar the last few weeks when infantiles are moaning incessantly about transfers), so it would be a shame to throw all that down the pan all because we didn’t sign a centre-back who’s not much better than what we have for an extortionate amount of money. Just get on with the job, José, that’s what you’re good at.

We don't normally agree, but I think you're spot on there.
It doesn't make good business sense to chase ageing players for ridiculous fees. Unless it's someone like RVP who can win you a title.

We have no idea who was on the list since the board vetoed it so approaches wouldn't have been made.

It's clear that we were making enquiries all throughout the summer, every publication has reported as such, the money didn't get authorised in the end.

 

[redIndianDevil]

We haven't got a right winger at the football club though. The manager you're meant to be backing identifies such a player and you're (reportedly) quibbling over £5m. I'm not saying Perisic has proven himself to be world class but how can it be argued he doesn't improve us?



Tearing up his transfer shortlist and doing feck all else because the market is inflated (which I understand and I sympathise with) is not backing the manager. I don't see Jose signing that new deal with the knowledge his transfer plans would be canned half a year later.

Perisic is not a right winger first of all and we got Mourinho an even better player in Sanchez in January, who is a legitimate world class player and PL experienced to boot and Sanchez hardly improved us. What makes you so sure that Perisic would have improved us?

 

[mdabat]

Ah the irony on these boards. Fickle fans demand titles and criticise Mourinho for finishing 2nd. Then they criticise him again for wanting quick-fixes that increase the likelihood of winning titles.

 

[RedNed77]

People acting like we don’t have a DoF when Sir Alex is still around. If you’re woody and you want an opinion on the direction the current manager is taking, you wouldn't need to be a genius to think of picking up the phone. Even more so, do we think Sir Alex just keeps his mouth shut when he’s at the club.

 

[Cassidy]

Pep didn't want Fred as much and turned to Jorginho. And although he missed Sanchez the board still provided.Mahrez. And when he wanted a defender he got every one of his first choices at 50m a pop.

Jose meanwhile was disallowed Perisic and now a CB and RW (if the report on the times is anything to go by). When he prioritised a CB and quite obviously gave.a shortlist, none were actually bought.

The club has bought him 2 CBs in 2 summers, the fact that CB again is his priority means there is an issue.

 

[JPRouve]

People acting like we don’t have a DoF when Sir Alex is still around. If you’re woody and you want an opinion on the direction the current manager is taking, you wouldn't need to be a genius to think of picking up the phone. Even more so, do we think Sir Alex just keeps his mouth shut when he’s at the club.

DOF is an actual job, unless SAF is working on a daily basis analyzing players from dozens of leagues, contacting agents, clubs and coaches then he isn't a DOF.

 

[RedNed77]

DOF is an actual job, unless SAF is working on a daily basis analyzing players from dozens of leagues, contacting agents, clubs and coaches then he isn't a DOF.

We will have scouts and other employees who will do the leg work. It can be a full time role, but I'd rather have a part time Sir Alex than a full time Ribalta.

 

[Canagel]

Genuine question

What do scouts do?

Do they find players and report them to the manager, or Woodward? Or does Mourinho just watch TV, find players he likes?

They're supposed to go to games and watch players. After that I have no idea what our scouts do.

 

[Speedicut75]

It's such a dick move to be briefing against our own manager. Well done Ed - you have really surpassed yourself this time!

Effective CEO's deal with conflict and arguments over approach all the time, but what they do is they keep their dirty linen behind closed doors, not gossip and bitch behind peoples backs.

Whenever you see an ineffective manager, clearly out of their depth, what do they spend most of their time on? Self justification and bitching to others about how hard they are working, how unappreciated they are...Wah Wah wah!

The board should take decisive action and remove Woodward immediately. His record of serial incompetence in transfer dealings grows every year and I'm sick of it.

The Godin situation shows he is clearly seen as a joke amongst other clubs.

Whether you are a fan of Jose or not, whether you agree with long term or short term thinking it doesn't matter. Managers have come and gone. Scouting experts like Ribalta have come and gone. He may be great at corporate sponsorship deals, but he should not be allowed within spitting distance of anything to do with Manager / team / player decisions.

This toxic little shrimp needs to be out of the club and replaced with someone that has some actual experience of managing a football club. We need someone with gravitas and who is not seen as a joke by all the agents and executives in other teams.

I know some will swallow Woodward's bullshit and will blame Jose for this. So if he goes do you have confidence in Ed's ability to choose the 4th manager since Fergie retired? I wouldn't trust him to sort out my Nan's weekly shop!

Like you I feel very uneasy about a CEO, with no footballing pedigree whatsoever, making decisions about who is, and who isn't, a viable target in the transfer market, on the basis of their perceived ability to organise in a team on a football pitch. And anyone who thinks these sorts of pronouncements from above will benefit any future, incoming manager, really need to look at how pernicious such interventions will become when they ( the manager ) have to start considering the CEO in footballing matters.

Woodward is overstepping his remit, and in second guessing the manager's intentions with regards to the suitability of players, he is inserting himself into the discussion about how to organise the team on the pitch. Which has has nothing to do with him, especially given his underwhelming knowledge about the sport in general.

Whether JS is the right man for the job is immaterial, but Ed will use other people's misgivings to garner support, and help snap his employee back into line, without much decent from the supporting rank-and-file; but this is indeed the slippery slope where the running of the club is concerned, and people should be aware of how dangerous it could become to have a CEO with a Napoleon Complex, especially one who is recoginised by the ownership as being the most important individual in their money-making venture.

 

[villain]

There was a tweet I saw yesterday which fielded all the players that Mourinho has bought in a team sheet

It looked like;

GK
Dalot - Bailly - Lindelof - LB
Matic
Fred - Pogba

RW - Mhki - Sanchez
Lukaku

He's been backed by the board, out of all those players, only Mhiki have failed to deliver, and it's too soon to judge Sanchez & Lindelof.

It's staggering that he's not got a LB and a RW though, that surely should've been the priority.

 

[Litch]

agree in the respect that Woodward isn't a football man

feels like politics at this point and there's been a few occasions when Jose has had a pop at the board too

we do need fundamental changes and I'd expect us to be looking for a Dof and new manager in the background

What's a football man then? How can you be anymore of a football man running the biggest football club in the world? Don't people in football clubs fall out at times or see things differently. It's that what breeds success? It's there always politics in everything?
What would another change achieve? If it's style of football, there isn't a team since SAF was here that's manage to deliver success in this country and in Europe playing attractive football. Only Barca and Madrid in Spain and no one else consistently in 20+ years. No teams since us nearly 10 years ago has retained the prem. That's how hard the task is before we decide to start all over again...

 

[cyberman]

The club has bought him 2 CBs in 2 summers, the fact that CB again is his priority means there is an issue.

2 in two summers isn't that big of a deal. Especially when one of them became injury prone once he signed a Utd contract.
If Jose wanted to sell one of the 3 injury prone CB that he inherited to fund the deal then what's the problem?
What's so fantastic about Smalling, Jones and Rojo that appeals to the board?

 

[Patrick08]

People acting like we don’t have a DoF when Sir Alex is still around. If you’re woody and you want an opinion on the direction the current manager is taking, you wouldn't need to be a genius to think of picking up the phone. Even more so, do we think Sir Alex just keeps his mouth shut when he’s at the club.

Sir Alex has retired . He serves as an ambassador and nothing more.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

People acting like we don’t have a DoF when Sir Alex is still around. If you’re woody and you want an opinion on the direction the current manager is taking, you wouldn't need to be a genius to think of picking up the phone. Even more so, do we think Sir Alex just keeps his mouth shut when he’s at the club.

I would hope that due to his health that we haven't been pestering SAF.

 

[JPRouve]

We will have scouts and other employees who will do the leg work. It can be a full time role, but I'd rather have a part time Sir Alex than a full time Ribalta.

But you realize that SAF is only an ambassador for the club, right? The man had a good reason for retiring and his recent health wasn't great? At some point we need to move on.