The beginning of the end... (the original board vetoed Mourinho's transfer wish list thread)

tomaldinho1 said:
Such a caveman view of footy. What makes a good defender? Slides tackles! Headers!

We have Smalling who is great in the air but we want players who can play football. FYI Toby is actually pretty good aerially, he's probably not as good as Vertonghen but all round he's world class for me.
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Nonsense. We have Bailly and Lindelof who have had trouble defending balls in the air. The majority of the goals we let in last season were from set pieces - rarely in open play.

Signing a CB who made less headers than even Blind last season would just have made our current weakness even bigger.
 
redIndianDevil said:
Perisic was just okay for Inter last season, we missed nothing.
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We haven't got a right winger at the football club though. The manager you're meant to be backing identifies such a player and you're (reportedly) quibbling over £5m. I'm not saying Perisic has proven himself to be world class but how can it be argued he doesn't improve us?

Ekeke said:
The contract is backing him. He's had money, he's had players, now build a team
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Tearing up his transfer shortlist and doing feck all else because the market is inflated (which I understand and I sympathise with) is not backing the manager. I don't see Jose signing that new deal with the knowledge his transfer plans would be canned half a year later.
 
Smores said:
What are you on about Sanchez and Matic are the only quick fix signings we've made in 5 windows, the vast majority have been younger lads to buid for the future.

Some of you are living in a different world. This is a young squad compared to nearly every season under Fergie
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It's not really that young though is it? Valencia, Young, Matic, Sanchez and even the likes of Mata, Smalling are older players. It's not just the players we've signed but those that Jose has kept on. Adding the likes of Willian/Perisic and Alderweireld would only increase the average age of the team and leave us with a bigger rebuilding job in 2 years time.
 
The Stain said:
Not buying it, there's something else beneath the surface.. Name one top club that doesn't have one experienced central defender leading from the back? Ye, they all do. As if Alderweireld wouldn't have improved us..
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I mean we have Chris Smalling who is 28 and quite experienced but maybe not of the quality of an Alderweireld.

I agree with what Ed has done here, but I kinda think he is setting up for Jose not being here next year so unless it’s a long term investment in a proper WC or potential player no point in getting them.
 
12OunceEpilogue said:
We haven't got a right winger at the football club though. The manager you're meant to be backing identifies such a player and you're (reportedly) quibbling over £5m. I'm not saying Perisic has proven himself to be world class but how can he be argued he doesn't improve us?



Tearing up his transfer shortlist and doing feck all else because the market is inflated (which I understand and I sympathise with) is not backing the manager. I don't see Jose signing that new deal with the knowledge his transfer plans would be canned half a year later.
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Why are you acting like we brought in Mourinho this summer? He's had several windows, in the other ones he's been given huge amounts to spend and 7 players. Most of which havent come close to their best
 
Well it's a bit daft to just not sign any of the players your manager wants because you don't want any quick fix signings and not communicate that to him before hand. I really don't get our board, how come they don't go with this to Mourinho as soon as he hands in his wishlist and say "listen we decided that signing players that will only here for 3-4 years isn't the way forward, we want you to look for targets no older than XX years who you think would fit your system and could grow into real first team assets in the coming x-x seasons."

I mean that can't be too hard can it? But just letting your manager work out which targets he wants and then by the end of the season say, "yeah we decided against your targets because they don't fit our idea of how to get the club moving forward" just seems like a bullshit excuse.
 
Ban said:
Also I'm glad some will find a joy in this, cause that supposedly means Jose will have a meltdown which they just can't wait to happen.. But I ask you, Jose leaves and what then?
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We have delayed the inevitable for far to long. It's time for King Eric.
 
12OunceEpilogue said:
I'm not convinced Jose deserves as much blame as the board for this transfer window. Whichever way you look at it the latter are failing in their role; if you no longer have faith in Jose you sack him and get someone else, you bring a DOF in to manage transfers, if you back Jose in the manager's role without a DOF you back him in the market. If they had longstanding doubts about Jose and didn't act they're spineless, if they just started having doubts after a shell of a preseason tour with barely any senior players they're stupid and if they back Jose to manage the team, have money to spend, but vetoed his shortlist then that isn't backing him at all in the current structure minus a DOF.

If you think it's likely Jose has mishandled players, such as Pogba and Martial, fair play to you as a fan for formulating that opinion over the last few months, and solidifying it this summer, based on the information available. The board have no such luxury. They should be well across this issue, which has been a talking point in the press at least since January, and have a solid plan that enables them to act prudently for the good of the club. If the perceived rift between Jose and Martial and Pogba is a deal breaker regarding trust between board and manager they should have got to the bottom of it towards the end of last season once and for all and acted over summer to back Jose or bin Jose. What we have now is a ridiculous halfway house where Jose is in place but clearly not backed, and it's the squad and ultimately the fans who suffer.

To be fair your second paragraph covers the board's potential culpability well, but I would go further in saying the buck stops with them now, not in a few months when it may be all too clear how badly they've managed this period.
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Well the reason Jose is equally blamed for the transfer window debacle is for his dull behaviour in pre season and constant public moaning of lack of signings not to mention his constant barbs at the youth players . One would expect a more calm demeanour from a big name manager and better public conduct . It all makes an integral part of the club's global image . It's one thing complaining in private and showing good behaviour towards the squad and other youth players encouraging them for pre season . His bad relations with Pogba and Martial didn't help either . He seemed o dull and literally on verge of a meltdown in pre season .So it's possible that the board was wary about his short fixes and was more interested in signing younger and better players which will be financial assets for the club in future . One thing we can't dispute in all of this is that the board mostly sees the club from a financial perspective hence they wanted to avoid paying over the odds wages and transfer fees for older players with recent bad injury history i.e. Boateng and Toby .

About Martial and Pogba well everyone seem to come to the same conclusion that there is a breakdown in relations with Jose and them which has been reported extensively in the press partly of which is true in my opinion considering the actions of agents of both Pogba and Martial .

Anyways I hope that Jose mends his relationship with both of them and starts formulating a better and positive plan for the incoming season . Mc Kenna and Carrick are there to help him . Carrick in particular is accorded a lot of respect in the dressing room so I hope he helps in moving the team forward . We all want the best for the team and hopefully we will surprise everyone by winning the league title .
 
Really, this a absolutely laughable. This fecking thing happens every single window with every single manager here including SAF. That's the boards job. The media are making it sound likes it's something new with the usual underhanded bullshit when it comes to reporting about us. Let's not forget the context of this against the most bizarre window across Europe since the 'concept' of a transfer window started.

That said, I have 5 cars on my drive, my wife is in her right to ask me why I want another, and then ask me to sell a couple just to physically make room for another even if it's not about how much it costs....
 
Kostur said:
It's funny how you disregard Ibrahimović's contribution to our league season or claim that Alderweireld is nothing special and then name Zinchenko, Laporte and Silva (neither of whom had any significant contribution to the City's winning season) and Mendy who was injured most of the time.
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The funny thing is that you struggle to grasp simple things. The City players I mentioned are young and are not on huge wages.
 
Does anyone else think that the obvious pull of playing for Utd is being mitigated by Utd's style of football and Mourinho's demeanour in the media. I'm genuinely starting to think that some players would/have swerved Utd because of these reasons.

If so, it would probably be in Utd's best interests to get shot of him. However, you may end up with a rebuild job again, unless a new manager (Zidane?) can get a better tune out of a largely talented group of players (not that difficult, you would think)

Big 5-6 months coming up for Utd & Mourinho, I feel.
 
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Hindsight is 20-20, but Woodward really should have lost his say in football matters after that Moyes season.
 
Boateng and Alderweireld may have been short term - though Toby could well have 3 or 4 solid years left in him, there's no way of knowing - but surely Maguire would have been a long term solution. Younger than Smalling and Jones for a start, neither of which I'd consider old either. 25 is the age to be buying a centre back with a view to them slotting straight in to the team and getting 7 or 8 years out of them. We might have balked at the fee, but VVD went for more and whilst he's good, he's not top class. It's the market now, you have to pay what it takes if you want that player, and the manager did. No player is really worth the amounts they go for now, but what can actually be done about it other than just not buying them?

That said, I don't think CB was where we needed to strengthen the most anyway. Full back and right wing were much more pressing, but Jose doesn't seem to think so. I think Smalling, Bailly, Lindelof are each good enough to fight it out for the two CB spots. Jones and Rojo in reserve is reasonable cover, when they're actually fit. I have less faith in Young, Shaw, Valencia and Dalot as our bank of full backs. Urgh, and Darmian, christ.
 
Wow. You seriously, desperately need a DOF in place.
 
Mainoldo said:
But we all want a DOF to overal a manager considering they have never been a top coach?
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Let's say it this way. Mourinho spends most of his time preparing the next game, he is in charge of training sessions and only has a limited amount of time to scout other players, build relationship with agents, know who is in a particular contract situation or is unhappy where he is. That's what a DOF will do everyday of the week, he is focused on that task and from what I heard that's what Martin Ferguson used to do, he was named Chief scout but from what I read and heard it was closer to a DOF than anything else, at the exception that he was an extension of SAF not his own man.
 
Ekeke said:
29 and doesnt win headers.
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I'm not entirely convinced by the Alderwerald hype. He's good but given Spurs have had better fullbacks than us for years, as well as a more functional midfield, you'd think their defensive record would be far superior to that ours but it's not the case.

I think Bailley has the ability to surpass someone like him pretty soon if developed properly. I'm sure he'd add some qualities but at his age and cost it's not this must have signing to be honest.
 
Smores said:
What are you on about Sanchez and Matic are the only quick fix signings we've made in 5 windows, the vast majority have been younger lads to buid for the future.

Some of you are living in a different world. This is a young squad compared to nearly every season under Fergie
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Ibra?

you're right that the majority have been younger players but Jose has still gotten his quick fix signings too.
 
When you have your chairman who has no footballing acumen deciding that 'x' player is better than 'y' player, over a manager that has won it all then you know you're really fecked. I'm no Mourinho fan at all, but Woodward making decisions like this, against a manager her appointed is so crazy i am lost for words. What an ego he must have. I hate what we have become. Absolute joke of a club.
 
Greck said:
Calling that throwing under the bus is a bit of a stretched interpretation. There's a reason United fans don't remember it that way. One of them isn't even from Woodward
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Let’s not bring Moyes into this - the worst manager in 50 years. He should have been thrown out at Christmas. Doubt Woodward had much of a choice in bringing him in.

Woodward made a good decision with LVG, he replaced him with a manager who would be at the helm longer, when LVG only had a year left.

He’s not throwing anyone under the bus now, he’s setting out clear guidelines and parameters to work within. If the players Jose wanted, were available at a reasonable price, they would be here.

Didn’t Pep want Sánchez, Jorginho and Fred recently? But City decided that the deals didn’t stack up for them? Doesn’t mean they are not backing Pep does it?
 
Who does the board consist of nowadays?

I highly doubt SAF and Sir Bobby have any say.

It's Woodward and who else?
 
This is only going to end one way. Hope I'm wrong but we haven't even began to see Mourinho at his stroppy worst yet, this season could be painful viewing.
 
JPRouve said:
Let's say it this way. Mourinho spends most of his time preparing the next game, he is in charge of training sessions and only has a limited amount of time to scout other players, build relationship with agents, know who is in a particular contract situation or is unhappy where he is. That's what a DOF will do everyday of the week, he is focused on that task and from what I heard that's what Martin Ferguson used to do, he was named Chief scout but from what I read and heard it was closer to a DOF than anything else, at the exception that he was an extension of SAF not his own man.
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Abit like the Italian guy we hired last year maybe? Who identified some defensive targets like Skriner? Just because we don’t blurt it out to the public don’t think we are totally inept. We have/had these people in place.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Let’s not bring Moyes into this - the worst manager in 50 years. He should have been thrown out at Christmas. Doubt Woodward had much of a choice in bringing him in.

Woodward made a good decision with LVG, he replaced him with a manager who would be at the helm longer, when LVG only had a year left.

He’s not throwing anyone under the bus now, he’s setting out clear guidelines and parameters to work within. If the players Jose wanted, were available at a reasonable price, they would be here.

Didn’t Pep want Sánchez, Jorginho and Fred recently? But City decided that the deals didn’t stack up for them? Doesn’t mean they are not backing Pep does it?
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Pep didn't want Fred as much and turned to Jorginho. And although he missed Sanchez the board still provided.Mahrez. And when he wanted a defender he got every one of his first choices at 50m a pop.

Jose meanwhile was disallowed Perisic and now a CB and RW (if the report on the times is anything to go by). When he prioritised a CB and quite obviously gave.a shortlist, none were actually bought.
 
sugar_kane said:
Woodward effectively briefed that Alderweireld is no better than our current centre backs. That no right winger is better than Willian. This is nonsense.

Does he not realise how hypocritical it is to deem Mourinho a short termist having not only hired the guy but given him a contract extension last year?

Mou behaves like a brat in the press and comes out with some idiotic shit but he’s right to be pissed off if he can’t strengthen the positions everyone knows need strengthening because the players might only last a couple of years.

Football by it’s very nature is short term these days we need to accept that we need ready made players alongside the ones for the future like Rashford. We have the money so who cares?

Also - I’m pretty sure Woody was the one sanctioning the likes of Falcao so the guy is full of shit and this is just face saving.

As a few have said, either back the manager or sack him. Anything in between is going to result in chaos.

We’re in a mess lads, grim times.
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Mourinho himself said in Feb that there would be no attackers purchased - https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/so...happy-that-sanchez-completes-attack-1.3379907 so i don't know if it was ever on the agenda for Woodward to be saying that Willian was not an upgrade on current options.

In terms of Toby, he was injured for part of last year and is 29 so if there were question marks over whether he would be the right candidate they are somewhat valid, especially at the prices quoted.

The most ridiculous point to make is back him or sack him. There has to be compromise. Mourinho has been backed heavily for loads of players but there can be a line drawn without it being the end game.
 
Massive Spanner said:
Ibra?

you're right that the majority have been younger players but Jose has still gotten his quick fix signings too.
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That’s where there needs to be balance - and those deals all made financial sense. Zlatan and Sanchez are World Class players, and Matic is excellent and proved it last year - but the point is we wouldn’t have paid £70-80m for Matic, as financially that doesn’t stack up.
I support the club in not spending massive fees on good players (not great) who are only going to be a first team player for 2-3 seasons. Willian at £70-80m being the perfect example.
 
I'm with the board on this one.
Toby is a great defender but for the £65m that was reported - it's throwing money down the drain quite frankly.
In 6 months he'll be available for £25m and in 12 months he'll be free.

Maguire reportedly would've cost over £80m, that's absolute madness - we shouldn't be held hostage to high fees just because we can afford to pay them.

Willian £60m? A joke.
 
TrueRed79 said:
When you have your chairman who has no footballing acumen deciding that 'x' player is better than 'y' player, over a manager that has won it all then you know you're really fecked. I'm no Mourinho fan at all, but Woodward making decisions like this, against a manager her appointed is so crazy i am lost for words. What an ego he must have. I hate what we have become. Absolute joke of a club.
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He let LVG tell him X was better than Y then had to hear Mourinho tell him Y was better than X. So maybe he got some DOF advice? Just saying. Considering he doesn’t rate Mina like most of the people on the CAF didn’t. Isn’t that what we want from Ed? To have a football knowledge to disagree with managers.
 
villain said:
I'm with the board on this one.
Toby is a great defender but for the £65m that was reported - it's throwing money down the drain quite frankly.
In 6 months he'll be available for £25m and in 12 months he'll be free.

Maguire reportedly would've cost over £80m, that's absolute madness - we shouldn't be held hostage to high fees just because we can afford to pay them.

Willian £60m? A joke.
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Going by the Simon Stone article, Alderwierald was a cash plus player issue. The club source said something like "we would have traded a 5th best centre back for another 5th best centre back, which didn't make sense" .

Its that I don't understand. Alderwierald is head and shoulders above any of our defenders, so there is some serious misjudgement going on by club officials who are undermining Jose.
 
Mainoldo said:
Abit like the Italian guy we hired last year maybe? Who identified some defensive targets like Skriner? Just because we don’t blurt it out to the public don’t think we are totally inept. We have/had these people in place.
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I don't think that he had that job, otherwise he would still be here. And I don't think that have anyone in place for the job either.
 
GBBQ said:
Mourinho himself said in Feb that there would be no attackers purchased - https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/so...happy-that-sanchez-completes-attack-1.3379907 so i don't know if it was ever on the agenda for Woodward to be saying that Willian was not an upgrade on current options.

In terms of Toby, he was injured for part of last year and is 29 so if there were question marks over whether he would be the right candidate they are somewhat valid, especially at the prices quoted.

The most ridiculous point to make is back him or sack him. There has to be compromise. Mourinho has been backed heavily for loads of players but there can be a line drawn without it being the end game.
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That was before Martial failed his audition on the right wing and told his agent to start looking for a new club.
 
VP89 said:
Pep didn't want Fred as much and turned to Jorginho. And although he missed Sanchez the board still provided.Mahrez. And when he wanted a defender he got every one of his first choices at 50m a pop.

Jose meanwhile was disallowed Perisic and now a CB and RW (if the report on the times is anything to go by). When he prioritised a CB and quite obviously gave.a shortlist, none were actually bought.
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But he still didn’t get a midfielder - he didn’t get everything he wanted. That’s the point. In addition City clearly have more money to spend and don’t have the same restrictions we do. But, importantly they still have restrictions, even City, which means that the manager can’t always get what he wants. That doesn’t mean they are not backing him.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
That’s where there needs to be balance - and those deals all made financial sense. Zlatan and Sanchez are World Class players, and Matic is excellent and proved it last year - but the point is we wouldn’t have paid £70-80m for Matic, as financially that doesn’t stack up.
I support the club in not spending massive fees on good players (not great) who are only going to be a first team player for 2-3 seasons. Willian at £70-80m being the perfect example.
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I agree with this. Those short-term fixes made really good sense. Clearly the fees being requested for Toby and Willian didn't.

Point is, these signings have shown that the board are willing to sign short-term fixes for Jose but they won't do it if they feel it's not worth the fee being touted, which is fine by me. I doubt signing Toby and Willian for £130m combined would have transformed us into a title winning team, anyway.
 
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