The beginning of the end... (the original board vetoed Mourinho's transfer wish list thread)

devilish said:
I don't think Moyes saw his former player as a first option either. However at the end of the transfer market it was either him or no one and we all know our CM needed new players. Which kind of suggest that maybe, LVG and Mou were forced to do the same ie rely on their contacts because the club is too incompetent to bring new players themselves.

If Mou is sacked/leaves then he'll be the third manager to fail with us. You might say that SAF also failed to build his fourth great side as he stuck to the 'value' strategy that saw top players being systematically replaced by the likes of Valencia, Young, Cleverley, Jones and Smalling. So either lightening can indeed strike 4 times at the same place or else our troubles are way bigger then the manager
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There is no DoF at the club so why is Woodward expected to produce list of alternatives, the managers should identify the targets if their initial ones are unattainable.
 
I sense we will not pull the Plug on Jose until he gets top 4 but Jose will wanna leave himself because he will feel not being backed by the club and loved by the supporters because his preference of football. Now that's where new Contract Jose signed Kicks in giving both the Board and Jose a security financially.

Still i feel strongly had Lvg not dropped out of top 4 and Jose was not available after his disaster season at chelsea, Lvg would have completed his co tract as well.
 
So whats wrong with expecting a manager to do his job with huge amounts of money spent in the past few windows?

I dont get it. We have plenty of players Jose agreed for the club to sign

Bailly
Lindelof
Dalot
Matic
Fred
Sanchez
Lukaku

Okay thats not 11 players but 7 isnt too far off. Have we got the best out of most of them? or the squad? No.



Dont get me wrong, I do feel the squad has some bad imbalance especially on right wing. But thats because Jose hasnt been asking for a RW other than Willian or so it seems. We were dead quiet on RW targets other than an unrealistic player like Bale and Willian.
 
B20 said:
Moyes
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Don't think that's right. He never threw Moyes under the bus. Not even LVG. Had a catfight with Perez though but it was in response to a statement issued by Madrid. Ed is far from an aggressor but he likes to defend himself
 
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Castia said:
I'm glad we didn't blow money on Mina or even the inflated fee's for Alderweirald but my point is there are other top CB's in Europe not just Varane, i dont know why our scouting ranged stopped with him.

Koulibaly at Lazio is a good shout, he's a top defender and whilst he would have cost a fortune he would instantly become our best defender. We could have gone the youngster route and signed De Ligt or Upamecano, sign them now before they are £100m defenders in 2 years.
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The thing is we dont know that we didnt ask about their prices. Maybe they werent reasonable either. I am a bit surprised we didnt find someone who was a cheaper gamble and give them a go. But contrary to popular belief we have fairly good CB options already. Its not even the biggest weakness in our defense - thats the fullbacks.
 
Board vetoed his list and didnt get a list of their own because they are clueless about football. If they fancied themselves as experts then why didnt they also get a RW over Jose's head???
 
I like Jose I really wanted it to work out for him but I can't see any way back from this.

The only question for me now is will he finish the season?
 
Drawfull said:
Said this in the other thread (why two?) but:

DoF or not, if there's no spin being put on what's reported then why the hell hasn't Woodward (either before or after seeing Jose's wish list), given Jose a spec of player (position, age range, max price/wages) that we will be willing to buy? It doesn't make any sense.

Until a week ago, Jose was convinced he would get at least one more player. He must be being kept informed by the board as to where negotiations are up to, so either the board outright lied to him about what they were willing to do only one week ago or this is just some face-saving bollocks that's going to achieve nothing but piss off Mourinho further.

And as has been said many times, if they are expecting a typical meltdown season, then why the hell haven't they got rid before the season began, as opposed to waiting until, e.g. December, by which time it will be almost certainly too late to salvage anything.

Suggesting that the Glazers are happy to stumble along with top 4 finishes to keep the coffers full is similarly misguided. Our current position as a marketing behemoth is built on a foundation of continuous success and, admittedly, an attractive never-say-die style of play. Top tier sponsors and partners will not want to be associated with the brand of United unconditionally should these fundamentals not be in place. Surely the board see that when you command millions for a shirt sponsorship deal with Adidas that is based predominantly on the years immediately preceding said deal? If renewal for sponsor xyz comes up and we've been largely mediocre, both in terms of silverware and playing style, surely we don't get as much cash? Success breeds success and they seem to be to blind to see it.
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I've made the same point (and quite a few posters) with offering Jose alternative options to sign for the positions needed if they weren't happy with his targets but pointing that out seems to have gone completely over the head of quite a lot of people who keep saying they're happy the board stood their ground. To wait months and do nothing and then undermine the manager across the media moments before our opener is self-sabotage, but Woodward may view it differently, quoted in May: “Playing performance doesn’t really have a meaningful impact on what we can do on the commercial side of the business.”
 
Treble said:
Fellaini and Rojo are squad players. And even if their new contracts are mistakes, this still doesn't justify buying for huge money 30 y.o. players who are not really special. It's silly to regard Alderweireld as the best CB in the league. He had one excellent season, that's it. So did Otamendi last season. He's the best around now, isn't he?

Zlatan contributed little for our success in the EL. He wasn't even available for the semis and the final. We didn't need him in the previous rounds as there were no top teams anyway. Rashford did brilliantly vs Celta away which was our best perfomance in the competition.

Board saw City winning the league with many youngish players last season. And not only winning it but destroying it. For half of the games City's attack consisted of players aged 23-21-20. And they had also players like B. Silva (23), Stones (23), Laporte (23), Mendy (23), Ederson (24), Zinchenko (21), etc. United have enough experienced players now. Time to help Martial, Martial, Shaw show their worth and help Pogba and Lukaku flourish.
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It's funny how you disregard Ibrahimović's contribution to our league season or claim that Alderweireld is nothing special and then name Zinchenko, Laporte and Silva (neither of whom had any significant contribution to the City's winning season) and Mendy who was injured most of the time.
 
Ahsan_6386 said:
Both Woodward and Jose are to be blamed equally for this transfer window debacle . I believe the board aren't convinced by Mourinho any more . I think the pre season was so underwhelming with the same old dire play along with Mourinho's constant moaning that the board put everything on hold . I believe they will start looking around for a new manager as soon as the results start going bad this season . But their handling of Mourinho and not backing him in this transfer window might make other candidates weary . Personally I feel Mourinho's public criticism of his players and constant in fighting has damaged his long term plan . If only he had handled Martial and Pogba better then I believe the board would have totally supported him in the transfer window . I think him being ok with selling both Martial and Pogba kind of weakened his position . They both are two of our record buys and the club has invested a lot in them so obviously watching their discomfort with the manager is not exactly what they wanted to see . They are bigger assets for the club especially Pogba right now than Mourinho . I am sure the board planned a future United team with players like Martial,Lukaku,De Gea,Pogba and Rashford leading it .

Anyways coming to the Woodward and the board . Well they don't come out looking great in this whole mess either . Their indecisiveness regarding footballing matters is hurting our team . They should have hired a DOF earlier to smooth the footballing side of operations . So all this press briefing coming out right now is good and understandable . But now they need to walk the talk and get Martial , De Gea , Pogba and even Rashford to sign new long term deals since they believe in the team youngsters more than the manager . If they are unable to do it soon enough then they are totally to blame if our new season goes bad .
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I'm not convinced Jose deserves as much blame as the board for this transfer window. Whichever way you look at it the latter are failing in their role; if you no longer have faith in Jose you sack him and get someone else, you bring a DOF in to manage transfers, if you back Jose in the manager's role without a DOF you back him in the market. If they had longstanding doubts about Jose and didn't act they're spineless, if they just started having doubts after a shell of a preseason tour with barely any senior players they're stupid and if they back Jose to manage the team, have money to spend, but vetoed his shortlist then that isn't backing him at all in the current structure minus a DOF.

If you think it's likely Jose has mishandled players, such as Pogba and Martial, fair play to you as a fan for formulating that opinion over the last few months, and solidifying it this summer, based on the information available. The board have no such luxury. They should be well across this issue, which has been a talking point in the press at least since January, and have a solid plan that enables them to act prudently for the good of the club. If the perceived rift between Jose and Martial and Pogba is a deal breaker regarding trust between board and manager they should have got to the bottom of it towards the end of last season once and for all and acted over summer to back Jose or bin Jose. What we have now is a ridiculous halfway house where Jose is in place but clearly not backed, and it's the squad and ultimately the fans who suffer.

To be fair your second paragraph covers the board's potential culpability well, but I would go further in saying the buck stops with them now, not in a few months when it may be all too clear how badly they've managed this period.
 
I think the board believes they have invested enough in short term fixes and now prefer to look at the long term, unless a short term target is so good, you just can’t pass up on him, such as a Bale for example.
 
breakout67 said:
Board vetoed his list and didnt get a list of their own because they are clueless about football. If they fancied themselves as experts then why didnt they also get a RW over Jose's head???
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Because they didn't veto anything. Jose give them his list of targets for positions back in May, if there was any dispute it would have been resolved long ago.
 
SammyUnited_83 said:
It's clearly a briefing.

People covering their arses, when the inevitable happens, and, Woodward has to sack the 3rd manager on his watch.
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He's just saying that the money was there if the player of sufficient quality was there but they were asked too much for players who wouldnt improve us a lot.

I've been saying that myself about Toby and Maguire. So it makes perfect sense to me. In fact its reassuring to hear. Much rather that than sign Toby out of desperation for £75 million and make us weaker defensively.
 
How this story even has legs is beyond me - Aldeirweireld is argubaly the best CB in the PL and not exactly ancient. Sure, the Godin rumour would have been a stop gap but I don't think anyone was thinking that would have been more than his £18m release clause. PLus I find it highly doubtful Woodward would presume to know more than Mou about players and ho they might suit Mou's system.

Do some basic homework before believing all this rubbish. BBC article today's headline genuinely read 'Man Utd: why did they not sign anyone and is there trouble ahead for Jose Mourinho' - apparently Fred and Dalot are so small time they didn't register...

On the same day Poch blame Brexit for no transfers....if ever the media wanted a target....
 
The most significant thing here is that the story was obviously briefed by the club to justify the approach taken by Woodward and the board.

That signals an irreparable rift and that they are at best waiting for Mourinho to leave and at worst trying to force him out.

This is the beginning of the end of the middle bit of the transition. We’ll now just have to sit through the meltdown an wait for the inevitable.
 
Samid said:
A 'win at all costs' quick fix manager wanting to sign players that are ... wait for it ... quick fix. Although I agree with Woody's current stance you've got to wonder why he and the board didn't see this coming when they hired Mourinho. Baffling management all around.
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He already got his quick-fix players and has done the grand total of sweet feck all with them.
 
Water Melon said:
People who are blaming the board for hiring Mou and now not allowing him to waste millions on players with little re-sale value, do these people even realize that their thoughts basically imply followings:
*Mourinho is not a long-term manager, which is not good at all.
*Mourinho is a very definition of a cheque-book manager, who could not care less about his club's finances and is instead interested in his own glory.
*Mourinho finds no problem in signing players and then binning them and then buying their replacements again. Getting the best out of what he has at his disposal is not Mou's forte either.

I am fully with the Board on this one, and I do believe that Jose needs to utilize his resources better. I won't be surprised to see a new manager at the start of 2019-2020 season.
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Who hired Jose and extended his contract the other month? Whichever way you look at it they've managed the situation badly, neither backing nor binning the manager and leaving us starting the season in a state.

Kostur said:
He extended his contract half a year ago. I repeat, half a year ago. He hasn't learnt shit, you're deluding yourself if you really think so.
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I'm by no means a Jose or bust guy but what other explanation is there?
 
friendlytramp said:
The most significsnt thing here is that the story was obviously briefed by the club to justify the approach taken by Woodward and the board.

That signals an irreparable rift and that they are at best waiting for Mourinho to leave and at worst trying to force him out.
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Would be a silly move. If they wanted him out they should have sacked him.

Dithering by the board on either front.
 
breakout67 said:
Board vetoed his list and didnt get a list of their own because they are clueless about football. If they fancied themselves as experts then why didnt they also get a RW over Jose's head???
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Because it's up to the scouts, not the board. The board have every right to veto targets they don't deem good enough for the price. The scouts should therefore be going to them with other options, which they didn't. Just look at their targets for CB for feck sake, they were terrible. If a £70m Maguire, a £60m Alderwiereld and a £30m Mina were all they could give the board then what exactly do they expect?

This club is simply awful at identifying talented players. It seems to just be a case of "right eh.. who's great and maybe available, let's go for them."
 
Bastian said:
I've made the same point (and quite a few posters) with offering Jose alternative options to sign for the positions needed if they weren't happy with his targets but pointing that out seems to have gone completely over the head of quite a lot of people who keep saying they're happy the board stood their ground. To wait months and do nothing and then undermine the manager across the media moments before our opener is self-sabotage, but Woodward may view it differently, quoted in May: “Playing performance doesn’t really have a meaningful impact on what we can do on the commercial side of the business.”
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This is ignoring two major points:

1. The club have spent decent money on two central defenders for Mourinho during his reign, Lindeloff is struggling and for some reason Mourinho wouldn't play Bailly towards the end of the season. You can understand why they might want to ensure that whoever we buy is a proper upgrade and most of the names mentioned were dubious at best.
2. The press briefing was a single story to explain the transfer window versus Mourinho continually making complaints about our transfer activity. The self sabotage started weeks ago at least the Board's story provides some context.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
How this story even has legs is beyond me - Aldeirweireld is argubaly the best CB in the PL and not exactly ancient. Sure, the Godin rumour would have been a stop gap but I don't think anyone was thinking that would have been more than his £18m release clause. PLus I find it highly doubtful Woodward would presume to know more than Mou about players and ho they might suit Mou's system.

Do some basic homework before believing all this rubbish. BBC article today's headline genuinely read 'Man Utd: why did they not sign anyone and is there trouble ahead for Jose Mourinho' - apparently Fred and Dalot are so small time they didn't register...

On the same day Poch blame Brexit for no transfers....if ever the media wanted a target....
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29 and doesnt win headers.
 
12OunceEpilogue said:
Who hired Jose and extended his contract the other month? Whichever way you look at it they've managed the situation badly, neither backing nor binning the manager and leaving us starting the season in a state.



I'm by no means a Jose or bust guy but what other explanation is there?
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The contract is backing him. He's had money, he's had players, now build a team
 
Massive Spanner said:
He already got his quick-fix players and has done the grand total of sweet feck all with them.
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What are you on about Sanchez and Matic are the only quick fix signings we've made in 5 windows, the vast majority have been younger lads to buid for the future.

Some of you are living in a different world. This is a young squad compared to nearly every season under Fergie
 
buchansleftleg said:
Ridiculous briefing from the club - yes paying for older players can be an issue, but look at examples like Makelele at Chelsea. Bought at 30 by Ranieri after being cast aside by real Madrid - goes onto drive the club to lots of silverware. I know that for every Makelele there is a Schweinsteiger but Jose does not seem to be a sentimentalist like LVG was. He was right with Matic and Perisic!

If this was really true where is the young emerging leftback then that we need, or the young dynamic winger as long term replacement?

As usual with Ed - he went chasing after his wet dream purchase - it didn't come off and he then scrabbles around briefing about all the players he is now interested in. Far too late, Far too naïve, Far from the best and should be far away from the club. I don't think we need a director of Football, just a competent chief executive who manages not to get distracted EVERY summer with fantasy transfers.

By the way Ed, I have some magic beans that were once in Neymar's pocket - interested in buying them?
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Perisic was just okay for Inter last season, we missed nothing.
 
If true then this spells trouble. If you bring in a manager you are implicitly saying you trust his judgment. To veto players he wants to sign is to effectively undermine him.
 
Why would Man Utd brief against their own manager on the eve of the new season? I am shocked.

Even if the board as finance men feel qualified to go against the manager's footballing judgement, they should not undermine him in public.

If I did not know better I would think this presages his sacking, but I do know better. I think they are just incompetent.
 
devilish said:
Mou will always find a top club to work with. His CV speaks for itself. 2-3 years from now he might even add it to his autobiography. That would would be an interesting read.


Anyway the one who would suffer from a horrible season is us.

I hope he won't show up for the Leicester game and then he'll handle the resignation letter later on. Lets see how Woody would sort that. Maybe he can persuade Jones to play like Varane.
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Nope, PSG might try him for their desperation to win CL but Mourinho record in CL has been awful since his Inter victory. His next destination will probably be a second stint at Inter, no top club will touch him.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Exactly. It’s an excuse that makes no internal sense. Mourinho said he gave them a list of five players at the end of last season, why didn’t our new uber-scout, Herr Woodward, tell him we don’t want to sign any of them the moment he saw this list?

The timing of the briefing is disgusting too. Why not get the Leicester game out of the way before basically taking the piss out of the manager, in public? Feck it, could this not have waited until the international break? As it stands, he’s rattled Mourinho when our squad is weak and we’re at our most vulnerable.

I’m no fan of the manager but this almost seems calculated to derail our season asap. Either that or Woodward putting his own ego/reputation ahead of the performances/results of the team. Either way, it’s the actions of a devious prick.
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I would also imagine this briefing was written a while ago, not just yesterday, which means Ed was pretty sure he wouldn't be signing anyone even though Mourinho intimated that he was going to get one of the players he wanted. There are no winners between Jose and Ed, the only victim is the team.

The running of the club in various areas is a shambles, but trying to put a positive spin on things, perhaps its going to need a monumental meltdown in order for those areas to be comprehensively corrected.
 
This is the most bizarre window I can remember so logic goes out the window. If we have a problem, then it's the same for 80% of the big clubs in Europe.
 
GBBQ said:
This is ignoring two major points:

1. The club have spent decent money on two central defenders for Mourinho during his reign, Lindeloff is struggling and for some reason Mourinho wouldn't play Bailly towards the end of the season. You can understand why they might want to ensure that whoever we buy is a proper upgrade and most of the names mentioned were dubious at best.
2. The press briefing was a single story to explain the transfer window versus Mourinho continually making complaints about our transfer activity. The self sabotage started weeks ago at least the Board's story provides some context.
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Woodward effectively briefed that Alderweireld is no better than our current centre backs. That no right winger is better than Willian. This is nonsense.

Does he not realise how hypocritical it is to deem Mourinho a short termist having not only hired the guy but given him a contract extension last year?

Mou behaves like a brat in the press and comes out with some idiotic shit but he’s right to be pissed off if he can’t strengthen the positions everyone knows need strengthening because the players might only last a couple of years.

Football by it’s very nature is short term these days we need to accept that we need ready made players alongside the ones for the future like Rashford. We have the money so who cares?

Also - I’m pretty sure Woody was the one sanctioning the likes of Falcao so the guy is full of shit and this is just face saving.

As a few have said, either back the manager or sack him. Anything in between is going to result in chaos.

We’re in a mess lads, grim times.
 
nore1975 said:
If true then this spells trouble. If you bring in a manager you are implicitly saying you trust his judgment. To veto players he wants to sign is to effectively undermine him.
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This. If this is what was briefed by the club it actually makes the board look worse.
 
Mainoldo said:
But we all want a DOF to overal a manager considering they have never been a top coach?
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DOF role is usually a person with years of experience in the game as a scout, or sometimes a former player. Our current DOF is an accountant with a background in banking.
 
Ekeke said:
29 and doesnt win headers.
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Such a caveman view of footy. What makes a good defender? Slides tackles! Headers!

We have Smalling who is great in the air but we want players who can play football. FYI Toby is actually pretty good aerially, he's probably not as good as Vertonghen but all round he's world class for me.
 
Mourinho got Fellaini on a new contract that seemed like one of his priorities so he should be happy. And a 21 year old who won his personal player of the season.

The way he talks about those players we cant be in a bad position
 
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