The beginning of the end... (the original board vetoed Mourinho's transfer wish list thread)

[Kapardin]

Perisic who reached a world cup final and Willian who was chased by Barca. Ed knows best.

Not taking any sides, but that's reality. My personal opinion is that both Ed and Jose are at blame for the mess though.

More flexible man-management from Jose would have seen us targeting players like Mahrez (who doesn't have the "warrior" mentality). Less football cluelessness from Ed would have seen us hire someone like Michael Edwards at Liverpool who knows his shit and can atleast suggest feasible and acceptable alternatives to the manager if his original targets are disagreeable, without just sitting and twiddling our thumbs during the window.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Again...not to come across as overly defensive of him, but the complaints about Mourinho moaning seem to bestow a lack of knowledge as to who Mourinho is. He's been a notorious moaner all his career. I remember him looking miserable in 2003 when he won the UEFA Cup with Porto. He was notoriously miserable when at Chelsea at times between 04-06. It was common for Stelling and co to sit baffled in the Sky studio, wondering what else the guy could want because he was complaining about a refereeing decision in a game Chelsea had won 3-0 to send them 19 points clear at the top of the table in October. He basically left Inter because he felt out with the media, and spent a lot of his time at Real Madrid fostering random conspiracy theories about how aliens and UNICEF were fixing La Liga for Barca, even when he won La Liga with Real.

He's often been a notorious winner, but he's always been a notoriously moany bastard as well. It was sort of one of his oddly endearing qualities that made him a particularly interesting manager in his early years. That and winning the Champions League with a team from Portugal.

I don't recall that.

Didn't he leave because Real came calling specifically? He won everything with Inter and Real were paying him loads of $$$ to come over.

 

[nazanto]

Then it begs the question why did they hire Jose when they know he's never been a long term manager? He's a short term mananger and anyone who knows anything about football knows this.

1st season they went out and get him Pogba for world record money, Mkhi, Zlatan & Baily for Jose to try to win the league. We went and done absolutely shite in the league but got Europa League.

2nd season. They replaced Zlatan with Lukaku for 75m. On top of that board go and get Matic and Lindelof for him. And board went and get Sanchez in January by paying him tonnes of money to get him on board. But last season we went absolutely tit in CL. While we get a respectable 2nd position, however the gap between us and City was too big.

So for me, I think the board knows when they hired Jose for the short term success and backed him for that, but Jose himself hasn't really justified that.

 

[WR10]

If it really came down to a CB then this is fantastic work by the club. We don’t need a CB, the fans don’t want a CB and Mourinho has an unexplainable fetish for defensive players.

 

[Patrick08]

Oh Ed Woodward, you misguided idealist.

 

[ElijahEthart]

If it really came down to a CB then this is fantastic work by the club. We don’t need a CB, the fans don’t want a CB and Mourinho has an unexplainable fetish for defensive players.

Please name a team in recent years that have won a league title or Champions league without a top class 29+ year old centre back.

If we don't need one, i'd be glad to see an example.

 

[flappyjay]

What are we, Southampton? Jesus Christ.

I see this all the time. Even when Madrid were building their current team they mostly spent big on players in their mid twenties or younger.

 

[simonhch]

So it seems like the club:

Wouldn’t pay 60m+ for Alderweireld (29).
Wouldn’t pay 50m+ for Boateng (29+injury record)
Wouldn’t pay 60m+ for Perisic (29 and a left winger)
Wouldn’t pay 75m+ for Maguire (average)
Don’t want to sell Martial or Pogba despite Jose tensions/wishes
Wouldn’t pay excessive fees for Mina (crap).

Other targets weren’t available.

I am 100% ok with this. Now Jose can pull his finger out and actually coach one of the most expensive squads ever assembled.

 

[Patrick08]

We have let him sign quick fix players though. Sanchez & Matic

Only because they costed less. The balance of this football club has truly tipped over too business side of things. Not that i agree we should have payed any price for Willian and Toby but then you also don't put the season in such a jeopardy .

 

[ElijahEthart]

I see this all the time. Even when Madrid were building their current team they mostly spent big on players in their mid twenties or younger.

Because they would cycle through players ensuring they always had top class players in their very prime around 28-29. We neglected our side for a decade and now we have no top class quality that has grown at the club to take on the senior role to a suitable standard.

 

[haram]

Because they would cycle through players ensuring they always had top class players in their very prime around 28-29. We neglected our side for a decade and now we have no top class quality that has grown at the club to take on the senior role to a suitable standard.

People really dont seem to understand this. There’s a reason why we need Matic, Sanchez, Alderweireld etc. We didn’t have these players.

 

[flappyjay]

I don't get it, they were supposedly willing to pay 100m for Varane but they were not willing to pay 70m for Maguire how does that make any sense? He is only 25 and imo better than every single CB we have and he is the exact type of Mourinho player tall, strong good in the air and all that so if these reports are true, then feck Woodward for not being able to sort out a deal for Maguire, name any CB around Maguires age we could have signed for that ammount of money who would have been better?

Stop reaching, he is about the same level it's just that he has a very desirable quality, his ball playing skills.

 

[Patrick08]

Not taking any sides, but that's reality. My personal opinion is that both Ed and Jose are at blame for the mess though.

More flexible man-management from Jose would have seen us targeting players like Mahrez (who doesn't have the "warrior" mentality). Less football cluelessness from Ed would have seen us hire someone like Michael Edwards at Liverpool who knows his shit and can atleast suggest feasible and acceptable alternatives to the manager if his original targets are disagreeable, without just sitting and twiddling our thumbs during the window.

Jose only came in 2016. Ed is messing things post Gill and Fergie Retirement.

 

[flappyjay]

The idiots running the club extended Shaw's contract.

How did that help Jose?

They took up the option so that he doesn't go for peanuts if we decided to sell. Or do you prefer to see our players sold for less than market value. Also Shaw says Jose was texting him before pre season about how he was looking forward to seeing in the team this year.

 

[Patrick08]

Openly declaring 100 m for the likes of Varane means if we were in for a player on his level than the selling club would just quote 100 m the minute we are in for him.

Genius Woodward.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Are you making a serious argument that Toby isn't better than Jones/Smalling/Rojo?

How many titles have Alderweireld won compared to Jones and Smalling?

 

[flappyjay]

Varane and Umtiti are both world class. Not exactly the best example. We'll see if you're right on Laporte and Stones.

Hummels and Subotic when Dormond won the title?

 

[haram]

How many titles have Alderweireld won compared to Jones and Smalling?

Oh my God

 

[ElijahEthart]

How many titles have Alderweireld won compared to Jones and Smalling?

That is a stupid argument, Tottenham are not at his level. Anderson won plenty and he was awful.
And secondly, he won a title with Atleti against Barca and Real, which trumps anything any of ours have done.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Spoiler: spoiler

Juan Mata
Ander Herrera
Chris Smalling
Phil Jones
Luke Shaw
Ashley Young
Matteo Darmian - 1 year option
Antonio Valencia - 1 year option
David de Gea - 1 year option
Anthony Martial - 1 year option
Andreas Pereira - 1 year option (both parties)

Excellent get rid off all the dross and their huge wages and sign defenders like City did in one window (only difficult part is identifying achievable targets and a manager who gets the best out them)

 

[DBT85]

How many titles have Alderweireld won compared to Jones and Smalling?

Someone get us O'shea back, double time.

 

[haram]

Yeah how many titles have Jones and Smalling won surrounded by defenders like Evra, Vidic and Rio .

Now tell them to be the main players in a defence and win the league.

 

[flappyjay]

Pep and Klopp NEVER sign ready made players.

Which 29-30 year olds did klopp sign even pep at city

 

[reelworld]

The main problem wasn't the board is not willing to give Mourinho money. Because these past two summers they have given him all the money he wants.
The main problem is that Mourinho has failed to maximise the players he had bought into playing to their potential. Or the players he chose and bought has played to their potential, and it's still not good enough. Then it's all on Mourinho, not Woodward or the board.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Oh my God

That is a stupid argument, Tottenham are not at his level. Anderson won plenty and he was awful.
And secondly, he won a title with Atleti against Barca and Real, which trumps anything any of ours have done.

I obviously wasnt being serious but isn't this the bullshit excuse you Mourinho fanboys constantly bring it up when Pochettino and Klopp have been praised in the past year?

 

[Mindhunter]

So it seems like the club:

Wouldn’t pay 60m+ for Alderweireld (29).
Wouldn’t pay 50m+ for Boateng (29+injury record)
Wouldn’t pay 60m+ for Perisic (29 and a left winger)
Wouldn’t pay 75m+ for Maguire (average)
Don’t want to sell Martial or Pogba despite Jose tensions/wishes
Wouldn’t pay excessive fees for Mina (crap).

Other targets weren’t available.

I am 100% ok with this. Now Jose can pull his finger out and actually coach one of the most expensive squads ever assembled.

This.

Mourinho has been putting too much blame on others. It is always something else. Instead of "back him or sack him", why isn't it "coach them or leave them"?

Why only the board need to change their approach? If Mourinho doesn't like the way we run ship then he can do one. He is anyways going to feck off at the first lucrative opportunity, leaving behind a degraded squad of misfits and old timers on high wages.

The club just spent a lot of money on Sanchez, so people saying that age is the concern are totally off. We are looking for quality, and will only overpay for that, not dross.

 

[ElijahEthart]

Which 29-30 year olds did klopp sign even pep at city

What have Liverpool won under Klopp? And did City neglect their side for a decade so they had no top class senior players like Kompany, Aguero, Silva, Fernandinho, or did they consistently spend to ensure they brought in youth but always had senior players in their prime to form the base of their side?

Let's use some common sense before making comparisons.

 

[Patrick08]

The main problem wasn't the board is not willing to give Mourinho money. Because these past two summers they have given him all the money he wants.
The main problem is that Mourinho has failed to maximise the players he had bought into playing to their potential. Or the players he chose and bought has played to their potential, and it's still not good enough. Then it's all on Mourinho, not Woodward or the board.

So clearly the Board don't understand Footballing Philisophies and transition between Footballing Styles and Philosophies.

 

[reelworld]

So it seems like the club:

Wouldn’t pay 60m+ for Alderweireld (29).
Wouldn’t pay 50m+ for Boateng (29+injury record)
Wouldn’t pay 60m+ for Perisic (29 and a left winger)
Wouldn’t pay 75m+ for Maguire (average)
Don’t want to sell Martial or Pogba despite Jose tensions/wishes
Wouldn’t pay excessive fees for Mina (crap).

Other targets weren’t available.

I am 100% ok with this. Now Jose can pull his finger out and actually coach one of the most expensive squads ever assembled.

Exactly.

This is why I'm OK with the board decision

 

[haram]

Fernandinho, Silva, Aguero, Otamendi, Kompany, all regulars and signed before Pep got there and most had title winning experience as key players. They are all 29+.

Imagine if Jose walks in with players like prime Carrick at the club instead of the one that was retiring in two years. Or an Aguero level player instead of Rooney who is now in the MLS. How can people not see this? After our experienced players left who was supposed to step into their role? Smalling into Rio’s role? Schneiderlin into Carrick’s? Do people really not understand why we might need some more experienced players?

 

[reelworld]

So clearly the Board don't understand Footballing Philisophies and transition between Footballing Styles and Philosophies.

The board sanctioned Lindelof, and extended Marcos Rojo contract. And the manager keep playing Jones-Smalling. Why extend Rojo if you're gonna keep playing Jones-Smalling? Why even bother with Lindelof? Lindelof cost 30 million, and he hardly played.

He's been here 2 seasons, bought 10 players in, and the only one playing even close to their ability is Matic. That's not good enough. How long would you think this transition is gonna last?

 

[Patrick08]

Fernandinho, Silva, Aguero, Otamendi, Kompany, all regulars and signed before Pep got there and most had title winning experience as key players. They are all 29+.

Imagine if Jose walks in with players like prime Carrick at the club instead of the one that was retiring in two years. Or an Aguero level player instead of Rooney who is now in the MLS. How can people not see this? After our experienced players left who was supposed to step into their role? Smalling into Rio’s role? Schneiderlin into Carrick’s? Do people really not understand why we might need some more experienced players?

It's clear the problem was not with experienced players but the Financial cost of Experienced players. Had they coast 35-40m each just like Matic and Sanchez. Ed would have done it.

 

[flappyjay]

Perisic who reached a world cup final and Willian who was chased by Barca (they have a DOF, right?)

Ed knows best.

Yes he knows not to overspend on 29-30 years olds the same as Barcelona's dof who also backed away and got Malcolm instead. If Chelsea wouldn't sell to a foreign club for 45m how much would they want from a direct rival?

 

[Kag]

The club's logic is spot on.

They should go one further and sack the cnut they employed.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

Thank god the season kicks off tomorrow. fecks sakes what a miserable existence some people here lead, wait until tomorrow for some actual meltdown material before the outpouring of negative dirge. The convergence of a million fans different obsessive way the club should handle things is so tiresome.

 

[flappyjay]

What have Liverpool won under Klopp? And did City neglect their side for a decade so they had no top class senior players like Kompany, Aguero, Silva, Fernandinho, or did they consistently spend to ensure they brought in youth but always had senior players in their prime to form the base of their side?

Let's use some common sense before making comparisons.

Someone alluded to them signing players of a similar age range to the ones the club is refusing to sign and so I asked the question?

 

[devilish]

In my opinion they are making excuses to justify their mess, the same mess which forced SAF to buy rubbish to replace his absolute stars under the value strategy, who forced Moyes to settle for Fellaini when he previously wanted Fabregas and which at one point, lead to United having just 1 WC in their squad. If the club wanted younger players then they should have told that to Mou in March which would have given him ample time to create a new list. Also what's the point of extending Mou's contract if the club is not ready to back him up?

 

[andersj]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mourinho-and-man-utds-conflicting-interest.429595/

 

[MrMarcello]

In my opinion they are making excuses to justify their mess, the same mess which forced SAF to buy rubbish to replace his absolute stars under the value strategy, who forced Moyes to settle for Fellaini when he previously wanted Fabregas and which at one point, lead to United having just 1 WC in their squad. If the club wanted younger players then they should have told that to Mou in March which would have given him ample time to create a new list. Also what's the point of extending Mou's contract if the club is not ready to back him up?

Thought Fabregas wanted to go to London? And remember the Herrera debacle that led to Moyes panic buying Fellaini - and only because he had managed him beforehand or he'd never been on the radar. Moyes hadn't a fecking clue how to handle working for a club the size and status of United and bumbled that entire summer window.

 

[Yagami]

So it seems like the club:

Wouldn’t pay 60m+ for Alderweireld (29).
Wouldn’t pay 50m+ for Boateng (29+injury record)
Wouldn’t pay 60m+ for Perisic (29 and a left winger)
Wouldn’t pay 75m+ for Maguire (average)
Don’t want to sell Martial or Pogba despite Jose tensions/wishes
Wouldn’t pay excessive fees for Mina (crap).

Other targets weren’t available.

I am 100% ok with this. Now Jose can pull his finger out and actually coach one of the most expensive squads ever assembled.

Bar the Maguire part in which I'd have paid that much for him as I think he's great, I agree. It's not like the club refused to buy a RW or LB - they didn't want to buy another expensive CB when the previous two they got for José are now seemingly not good enough for him. I personally agreed with José on priotitising a ball playing CB but can absolutely see where the board are coming from.