I kinda feel someone's in his ear... I'm hoping it's proper football person! One can dream
The beginning of the end... (the original board vetoed Mourinho's transfer wish list thread)
- Thread starter charlenefan
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@Dante and @MikeUpNorth are spot on!! Nothing to add except this.
As a member of several corporate boards I have learned from senior colleagues a few basic rules. These rules are none questionable.
1. You don’t brief the media about your own shortcomings. That’s plain stupid. Why? You open up a can of worms you can’t control.
2. You don’t start a public war against your own manager. How crazy is that!? That’s beyond stupid! Almost corporate suicide. Internal disagreements you keep in-house, rule number one on every corporate level.
3. If the board disagrees with the manager they either talk to him, give him a frame or specific orders how to operate, or sack him. What else!? Going public about why, who and how is borderline incompetence. Woodward basically gave away our future transfer plans. How wise is that!?
4. The last rule. The most important one. Listen now Edward and repeat 100 times until you learn.
# You have faith in your manager/CEO until you don’t have faith!!! Next step is to sack him, not go public with pathetic excuses.
04.45 in the morning. I’m reading this and almost lost for words. Fecking hell !
As a member of several corporate boards I have learned from senior colleagues a few basic rules. These rules are none questionable.
1. You don’t brief the media about your own shortcomings. That’s plain stupid. Why? You open up a can of worms you can’t control.
2. You don’t start a public war against your own manager. How crazy is that!? That’s beyond stupid! Almost corporate suicide. Internal disagreements you keep in-house, rule number one on every corporate level.
3. If the board disagrees with the manager they either talk to him, give him a frame or specific orders how to operate, or sack him. What else!? Going public about why, who and how is borderline incompetence. Woodward basically gave away our future transfer plans. How wise is that!?
4. The last rule. The most important one. Listen now Edward and repeat 100 times until you learn.
# You have faith in your manager/CEO until you don’t have faith!!! Next step is to sack him, not go public with pathetic excuses.
04.45 in the morning. I’m reading this and almost lost for words. Fecking hell !
There are some world class players a club can move heaven and earth for, Alderweireld is not one of them.
I am a fan of Mourinho but fully agree with the club if this is the case.
He should improve what we have, not ask for a new toy each time when it's more expensive and no better to the one we already have.
He should improve what we have, not ask for a new toy each time when it's more expensive and no better to the one we already have.
Well in Woody! Now please boot out the clown at the earliest.
This is the worst argument I have ever heard.
And these world class players will never be available. That's not football manager to think we will get the likes of Varane or Umititi from the 2 La Liga Giants. Madrid won't accept a 200m offer for Varane.
Toby is one of the best defenders in the league and and if we aren't spending for him, then don't expect any CB of a higher profile joining us then any time soon.
We had enough young talent at the back and we needed some sort of leadership and experience.
There is none. This we are "willing to spend 100m on Varane but if he won't sign we won't go anyone else" sounds so fecking juvenile; it's probably bullshit. It's good to chase players like Bale, Varane, Neymar etc. if they are willing to come here. But there has to be a back up plan if you can't get those players. Our transfer strategy can't be all or nothing. We fecking adopted the same approach in the first transfer window after Sir Alex left by chasing Cesc and Bale for the entire window and than in the end were scrambling to sign DeRossi, Khedira, Conterao etc. only to end up with Fellaini, 4m pounds over his release clause a month back.
All right, people make mistakes, you'd think a man in Ed's position will learn from it. No, we have been repeating the same nonsense again and again. Ramos, Kroos, Bale for the nth time, Mueller, Neymar... the list goes on. We were able to pull of Pogba and Sanchez, but that's about it. It's not that the board is stingy or wary of spending the dough. It's the question of whether they are capable to spending it correctly.
I was at peace last evening after the close of the window. I thought our squad is good enough to challenge and we'll be fine. This brief has me a little worried about what is going on. Something is amiss and the season could be a write off.
edit: There are basically three thread running on the same theme: this one, the club has no footballing vision, Man utd vetoed Jose Mourinho's transfer wishlist. Someone should combine them.
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It "proves" (if you believe it is what actually happened), that Woodward doesn't understand how numbers work. It suggests he would go into a shop, and decide he didn't want to buy anything as it was too expensive to be value for money, but without actually checking how much anything cost, and just presuming it would be an amount, and deciding that amount was too much...then go into another shop, and attempt to spend nearly twice as much money on something that isn't even for sale. Then come back with nothing. There's no spin you can put on it that allows it to make any sense. It's something that would cause you not to trust this person to spend your money ever again, as when this was explained to you, you would realise the person is an idiot.
The Glazers might be in it for the money but they will be aware that sponsorships don't work if nobody is interested in the team, due to allowing some loon to sabotage it.
I don't see him being here next season no matter what happens. Either there will be a massive fallout or if he goes on and wins something major, he'll resign/mutual consent. He goes out a winner, his ego (I think thankfully) won't want him to go out a 'failure'.
Ultimately he knows if he gets sacked it's him who gets the blame this time, not the owners like in the past. He will go balls to the wall to win something major this season either the league or CL in hope he can leave a winner at the end of the season. He gets sacked/quits his reputation gets tarnished and almost becomes Wenger-esque in that his early and mid career was exceptional but his latter seasons were tarnishing his legacy.
Ultimately he knows if he gets sacked it's him who gets the blame this time, not the owners like in the past. He will go balls to the wall to win something major this season either the league or CL in hope he can leave a winner at the end of the season. He gets sacked/quits his reputation gets tarnished and almost becomes Wenger-esque in that his early and mid career was exceptional but his latter seasons were tarnishing his legacy.
Good job Woodward! Next on the agenda - sack Mourinho.
This post would make sense if the club had no idea of how Mourinho likes to operate before they hired him.
I agree on your principle in general And understand it but the point is I don't even think the Glazers are looking at it that way. They are looking at it from different perspective and from the perspective they don't see a problem in how he's managing their money.
I found it quite funny, though, that if this breifing was accurate and from the club then instead of making everyone back the board like they were expected, it made more turn Woodward. Previously there was only Mourinho and his moaning in the press which annoyed that fans and mostly were behind Ed. This breifing in attempt of saying Ed is blameless came in a very idiotc way that actually made the most turn on Ed himself.
Regardless on which side you are on, have a weird feeling that if those on top see any support for their action, they might pull similar shit in the future as some type of mechanism.
The DoF would report to him. He can still retain oversight while allowing someone to do the job properly.
Wouldn't be surprised if his ego prevented him from hiring a DoF, but after Mourinho there are no traditional managers left.
Sure, second is higher in the table than third or fourth. But im not sure doing better than Moyes is good enough. And 19 points off first place? Is that really closing the gap between us and the title?
If I remember correctly we were closer to 6th than 1st.
Aye I think the cafe deserves a few years of Brendan Rodgers tbqh.
Question to those having a meltdown, would you all have been this upset if Liverpool had spent less than Manchester United?
While I understand that some people have an issue with the way this is coming out (media being briefed), I don't understand how people are getting furious at the reasoning provided. And from the board's point of view, something like this had to come out in the media, because as we saw here, fans demanded an answer as to why signings weren't made. Anyway, I agree with the reasoning provided, even if it contradicts with the hiring/extension of Mourinho. Mourinho's target list quite frankly sucked. Centerback wasn't even a priority for us in terms of need, yet that's all we seemed to be chasing. Willian or Perisic seemed to be our only targets for attackers. Fullback names were barely even mentioned all summer. Thanks to Mourinho, we chose to re-sign Felliani over a new midfielder. People are furious that we didn't really make a move for Alderweireld, despite knowing that Levy is painful to deal with, and Spurs would have quoted a ridiculous price for him. And then there's the fact that Alderweireld is on decline, not just with injuries but in form too. Leicester were never going to sell Maguire as mentioned. Boateng was most certainly not worth it for 40m GBP. I do agree with the sentiment tho that if the board aren't willing to back Mourinho, then they should fire him now instead of waiting for the eventual meltdown.
We didn't need a centre back unless he was world class and a leader.
So I can agree with insistence on value for money for anything below that.
We have signed 2 CBS already last 2 windows.
Bizarre that we didn't move for a lb or right winger though with same desperation. Don't know whose fault is that.
So I can agree with insistence on value for money for anything below that.
We have signed 2 CBS already last 2 windows.
Bizarre that we didn't move for a lb or right winger though with same desperation. Don't know whose fault is that.
How so? If there are players who moved who you think United should have bought in to fill problematic positions (full-back and right-wing seem to be the consensus,) that's fine. In my opinion there weren't, I just asked a question.
However, despite contradicting media gossip, we only know which players were actually sellable or transferable (however you label it,) by whether they moved clubs.
I won't criticise our club not overpaying for players when our recent transfer history dictates we are prepared to pay big every Summer (Fred, Lukaku, Pogba,) to get players of the right profile in.
Meltdown, problems, arguments etc are mostly being spun to sell papers and make clickbait headlines and shouldn't be taken too seriously.
United have a very strong team going into this season. Sanchez for instance did not settle last year, January signings rarely do (remember Evra!) But look at his form in pre season, he can transform an attack and after a summer off looks to be raring to go.
Pogba, was never going to Barca, he is happy at the club (see the quotes rather than the headlines) Jose's problem is far more with his agent than the player. He's coming off the back of a fantastic summer and could thrive this season as one of the biggest players at a huge club.
Even without the CB the defence for the last two seasons has been tight and the goals against has been low.
Courtois has gone to Real, so the pull on DGD is gone and finally Fred has been signed to replace an aging Carrick - definitely an improvement to the squad.
I'm not saying you will win the league, but the margin between draws and wins is so small sometimes that a firing Sanchez, Pogba and Fred could make the difference.
This team is in a much better place than it was this time last year, I can not think of a season with any club where Mou has got every transfer he wanted. I would suggest that those predicting some kind of huge implosion are either writing headlines or believing everything they read.
BUT if Mou has a massive fight with a team doctor during the first match, I will take this all back!
United have a very strong team going into this season. Sanchez for instance did not settle last year, January signings rarely do (remember Evra!) But look at his form in pre season, he can transform an attack and after a summer off looks to be raring to go.
Pogba, was never going to Barca, he is happy at the club (see the quotes rather than the headlines) Jose's problem is far more with his agent than the player. He's coming off the back of a fantastic summer and could thrive this season as one of the biggest players at a huge club.
Even without the CB the defence for the last two seasons has been tight and the goals against has been low.
Courtois has gone to Real, so the pull on DGD is gone and finally Fred has been signed to replace an aging Carrick - definitely an improvement to the squad.
I'm not saying you will win the league, but the margin between draws and wins is so small sometimes that a firing Sanchez, Pogba and Fred could make the difference.
This team is in a much better place than it was this time last year, I can not think of a season with any club where Mou has got every transfer he wanted. I would suggest that those predicting some kind of huge implosion are either writing headlines or believing everything they read.
BUT if Mou has a massive fight with a team doctor during the first match, I will take this all back!
So if they were not going to back him in the market why extend his contract? If they were worried about short term fixes then why hire Mourinho? This club is so badly run, is there any kind of long-term plan in place?
fecking dickhead Woodward. If Jose hadn't identified transfer targets which were young enough or seen as poor value then surely a director of football could've worked to source alternatives?
Woodward was therefore useless in this window. If Joses wishlist isn't good enough to be backed then it renders Woodward useless who is actually the one who doesn't add any value to the process.
Either get a director of football or football man in charge of scouting and transfers or shut the feck up and back the managers choices. The current set up isn't good enough for a club of this history and stature. feck all of them for not being up to it.
It's as if they dont know how Jose goes for experienced players.... What a mess. Watch Alderweireld and Maguire have great seasons and be this year's Perisic.
Woodward was therefore useless in this window. If Joses wishlist isn't good enough to be backed then it renders Woodward useless who is actually the one who doesn't add any value to the process.
Either get a director of football or football man in charge of scouting and transfers or shut the feck up and back the managers choices. The current set up isn't good enough for a club of this history and stature. feck all of them for not being up to it.
It's as if they dont know how Jose goes for experienced players.... What a mess. Watch Alderweireld and Maguire have great seasons and be this year's Perisic.
As I mentioned earlier, Telegraph carried something similar name-dropping Varane. Legit damage control by Ed trying to explain to the supporters.
I guessed this was the reason ever since the board vetoed Perisic - they don't like Jose's older targets for the most part. Been burned by making stupid signings for LvG and backing him blindly.
While what Ed is doing is commendable, it is only half the job. He shouldn't just veto a manager's targets but suggest viable alternatives to make up for it. After all, the whole world and their dog know we need a LB and RW. And it is for that reason we need a proper transfer structure to help the manager.
Lastly, one thing I disagree on is that Shaw is an asset. 4 managers have said the same thing. I doubt he will come good. But by keeping players Jose doesn't fancy, like Shaw and Martial, maybe Ed is indeed mulling a change of manager next season.
I guessed this was the reason ever since the board vetoed Perisic - they don't like Jose's older targets for the most part. Been burned by making stupid signings for LvG and backing him blindly.
While what Ed is doing is commendable, it is only half the job. He shouldn't just veto a manager's targets but suggest viable alternatives to make up for it. After all, the whole world and their dog know we need a LB and RW. And it is for that reason we need a proper transfer structure to help the manager.
Lastly, one thing I disagree on is that Shaw is an asset. 4 managers have said the same thing. I doubt he will come good. But by keeping players Jose doesn't fancy, like Shaw and Martial, maybe Ed is indeed mulling a change of manager next season.
I agree with all of that and more! Woodward should go after this pathetic episode. I've had enough of his shitty briefings. Was apparent all summer and didn't help one bit getting our targets. If he's good at some areas of his job then keep him working in those areas. He needs to feck off away from the football side and transfers. Ribalta was everything we needed and we saw him leave as he wasn't given any control or power at the club as a head scout.
Alex Sandro, Kurzawa/ any left back in the world.
No. He has NO footballing credentials. The moron vetoes Jose’s list but has NO idea who should be signed instead. All he knows is that they should apparently be younger. Jose has already been signing younger players! Literally what the feck?
you know as the dust settles I think overall this is a good thing - Jose needs to do more with the squad and he needs to coach effective attacking performances out of them
I don't think we should be in a bin and buy state where progress only comes through the transfer market
I agree with the sentiment that short-termism isn't the way to run a club - Toby would have improved us but knowing Levy he probably expected 60m plus for a player who was suffering injury problems, will be 30 soon and will also be available for 25m.
had we spunked 70m plus on Maguire I would have been embarrassed quite frankly - he's had a great world cup but we weren't interested in May and he had a fairly average season for Leicester - Mina was available for 15m euro before the WC so spending big on him would have been ridiculous
at the same time is unrealistic to expect to sign Varane... he's going to be at Madrid for the rest of his career - you ask once about Bale and move on rather than waste time.
if Ed argues that they were no players available or targeted who could have improved us that's bollocks.... Sandro would be a big upgrade at LB and any RW would have been an upgrade considering we don't have one.
there's blame on both sides - it's clear we need structural change to move forward where transfer targets are agreed between a DoF and the manager- Jose has a year to save his job - he needs to get us playing or he is gone
I don't think we should be in a bin and buy state where progress only comes through the transfer market
I agree with the sentiment that short-termism isn't the way to run a club - Toby would have improved us but knowing Levy he probably expected 60m plus for a player who was suffering injury problems, will be 30 soon and will also be available for 25m.
had we spunked 70m plus on Maguire I would have been embarrassed quite frankly - he's had a great world cup but we weren't interested in May and he had a fairly average season for Leicester - Mina was available for 15m euro before the WC so spending big on him would have been ridiculous
at the same time is unrealistic to expect to sign Varane... he's going to be at Madrid for the rest of his career - you ask once about Bale and move on rather than waste time.
if Ed argues that they were no players available or targeted who could have improved us that's bollocks.... Sandro would be a big upgrade at LB and any RW would have been an upgrade considering we don't have one.
there's blame on both sides - it's clear we need structural change to move forward where transfer targets are agreed between a DoF and the manager- Jose has a year to save his job - he needs to get us playing or he is gone
Agree. I know that fans are upset and angry that we haven't purchase much this transfer window. But using this stick to beat Jose is really crazy. Lots of fans don't like Jose but from the beginning he's reiterate his desire to stay here long term and by his purchasing history you could see that he's thinking long term here.
Pogba, Lukaku, Dalot, Fred, Baily, Lindelof...etc are for long term, But at the same time he knows this is a result oriented industry that require you to compete hence we see this pattern that 4 players (2 long terms and 2 experience ones). You won't have future without immediate success.
Look at Arsenal for instance, AW focuses too much on young talents and future, neglecting the immediate success and after 2/3 years of develop his players up to world class standard, most of them leave to other big clubs to get the trophies they crave for. What you expect De gea, Pogba, Lukaku etc feel if United don't win anything the next 2/3 years. They most likely won't stick here with us fans.
United haven't won the PL for about 5 years now, does any of us want another 5 more just so we can turn to Liverpool. At the end of the day, you have to have the now before you can think about the future.
It all points to the board and Woodward fearing a Mourinho third season. A real shame they didn't fully back him this summer. It was a chance to show Jose they wanted him for the long term aswell and they failed.
If they don't believe in him they should've sacked him and not pussyfooted through a summer transfer window.
BTW, even oil rich city didn't pay what it takes for everyone and have lost out on Sanchez, Fred and then Jorginho as deemed not essential.
They have pretty much just signed mahrez.
They have pretty much just signed mahrez.
Back him or sack him
The club knew exactly what they were getting when they signed Mourinho and they were happy with what he's done , that's why they gave Him a new contract in January
This is not just about a CB, what happened to RW & LB? What's wrong with Sandro?
Also no matter how good he is, no CB is worth 100 million pounds, no one. We should have bought a CB who would improve us
This reminds me so much of Jose's third season at Chelsea, signing some unknown average defenders when he wanted Stones. And I expect the same outcome this year
United fans, prepare yourself for a very bad year
The club knew exactly what they were getting when they signed Mourinho and they were happy with what he's done , that's why they gave Him a new contract in January
This is not just about a CB, what happened to RW & LB? What's wrong with Sandro?
Also no matter how good he is, no CB is worth 100 million pounds, no one. We should have bought a CB who would improve us
This reminds me so much of Jose's third season at Chelsea, signing some unknown average defenders when he wanted Stones. And I expect the same outcome this year
United fans, prepare yourself for a very bad year
But it's Mourinho who went public and first started this.
I am sure Saf many times didn't get what he wanted and those years towards the end were way more. Penny pinching by us but he always presented a united face and worked as a team with David Gill.
Mourinho just wants to stay away from transfer activity and put Blame somewhere else.
I'm taking Woodwards side on this, 60m - 70m can hypothetically get Niklas Sule for that kind of money.
Can someone remind me of a recent title or champions league winning side that has not had at least one prominent, top class, 29+ year old centre back at the heart of their defence?
It doesn't happen. That is why our manager was looking for one. The boards decision to ignore possibly the best defender about that fits that description like a glove, proves they have no title ambition.
It doesn't happen. That is why our manager was looking for one. The boards decision to ignore possibly the best defender about that fits that description like a glove, proves they have no title ambition.
By Woodward, I meant appoint a DoF in general. And as I pointed out in another thread, all was peachy keen when Jose wanted young players or older superstars like Ibra, Sanchez etc. It's when he started asking for the likes of Perisic, William (unglamorous "old" signings) and ostracized Martial (Ed's favorite), that the cracks appeared.
Perisic who reached a world cup final and Willian who was chased by Barca (they have a DOF, right?)
Ed knows best.
Neither player moved clubs, so we don't know at what price they become sellable, nor whether we made an enquiry. Without wanting to derail this thread, my opinion is that Ashley Young is a better option than Kurzawa. It's not outrageous to say that Young had a better season than Sandro too. Perhaps Jose thinks the same.
When there was incentive to do so. He was trying to get players. He was far more reserved today and clearly moving on.
Woodward’s briefing serves to do nothing but demonstrate chaos within the club on the eve of the season. It accomplished nothing for team and was entirely self serving. He’s a disgrace.