The beginning of the end... (the original board vetoed Mourinho's transfer wish list thread)

[Patrick08]

He has been backed. The club are simply (and quite rightly) not pissing millions of pounds up the wall on players that aren't that good (Mina) or particularly suitable (Boateng).

If you analyze each transfer isolated from others, you will find the board correct but if you look at the whole picture at once we should have got at least one more player to improve this team. I get that you cant spend 70 m on the likes of willian but then not taking a ball playing centre-back in for 50-55 m who is an upgrade and experienced player who can lead the defense which flops against top sides is a bad Decision and Gives Jose nothing to challenge with given the competition around the league.

 

[SpyLuke10]

Its a thing called teamwork. If you aren't a fan of players on Mourinho's list, suggest alternatives. It seems like there is zero communication between Jose and Ed. Jose, why aren't you calling Ed and asking wtf is going on? Ed, why aren't you calling Jose and saying "Hey Jose, it seems we won't be able to sign Sandro, any other left backs you keen on?" "Hey Jose, how would you feel if we signed Pulisic?" "Hey Jose, how do you feel about the idea of signing Phillipp Max?" "Hey Ed, what is taking so long with signing Alderweireld, do you have my back or not?"

This utter bullshit about "Jose was keen on Maguire but the board wasn't, they wanted Martial to stay, etc". Did Ed Woodward have a chat with Jose and tell him, "look Jose, Martial is staying, that is what the board wants, OK?" If the communication between Ed Woodward and Jose was really so little, that shows a far greater incompetence from the both of them at working to get transfers done.

They are supposed to be working together to sign players. But it seems like they've communicated about as much as I've communicated with my year 12 chemistry teacher since i finished high school. that is to say not at all. I'm sorry but i dont buy any of this crap that ed woodward has told people. The man is INCOMPETENT at his job as far as I'm concerned. COMMUNICATION is arguably the most important part of any job, and in such a high paying job that ed woodward has, i expect a lot better.

It seems like we've spent 80 percent of the transfer window working towards signing sponsors, 15% trying to sign Bale, and 5% failing to sign Sandro, Maguire, Alderweireld, etc.

 

[Kag]

If you don't trust the manager then don't give him a contract extension. I'm against Mourinho and want him out of the club. But you can't give him an extension and then brief just months later that they don't think he's a long term manager.

It's a complete failure of planning. Besides how does a public briefing help?

You have a point. The brief states that selling Martial and bringing in 29 year olds is short term thinking. Which is true. I don't think it's trying to criticise Mourinho necessarily, but moreso justifying the reasons for not buying reported targets.

I like the brief, actually. The club has allowed Mourinho to act like a baby all summer and it's time the board gives us a less dramatic account of events.

 

[devilish]

Well done on missing the point.

not really. Its pointless saying that the club would be willing to spend ridiculous money on players who wouldn't touch their club with a barge pole. It reminds me of Spurs and their famous 'we nearly signed Ronaldinho' quotes which were ridiculed in here a few years back.

We are where we are and certain players are out of our reach. That's why we have to aim lower and sometimes bite the bullet by spending over the odds for players who might make the difference. For example Toby would be a clear upgrade to Smalling, Jones and the rest of the tripe we've got in defence.

 

[SpyLuke10]

If you analyze each transfer isolated from others, you will find the board correct but if you look at the whole picture at once we should have got at least one more player to improve this team.

Absolutely on point. If they signed Alderweireld then Jose would have a hell of a lot less of an excuse to not win things this season. As things stand he has a very good excuse.

 

[Rake]

If they did not like the targets given, why did they not tell him so from the beginning? I`m sure we could have scouted and targeted a less known player during the summer break?

If they are not willing to spend big on aging players - that is fine, but don't just wait util the end of the transfer window to tell the manager... Either Woodward is clueless or Jose refused to change targets, insisting on transfers that are unlikely to happen. Absolute buffoonery whichever way you look at the situation.

 

[WR10]

Please name a team in recent years that have won a league title or Champions league without a top class 29+ year old centre back.

If we don't need one, i'd be glad to see an example.

I don’t recall us being in for a ‘top class’ CB that has won a league title or CL in recent years. Besides, why would such a CB join our team?

 

[Rash Decision]

If you don't trust the manager then don't give him a contract extension. I'm against Mourinho and want him out of the club. But you can't give him an extension and then brief just months later that they don't think he's a long term manager.

It's a complete failure of planning. Besides how does a public briefing help?

Wasn't the contract extension given while things were still relatively rosy? After that all the rumours of Jose falling out with Martial and Pogba started surfacing, and we started playing really awful stuff despite signing Sanchez. And in the summer, Jose's the one who started taking swipes at his employers through the press. The board could still have trusted the manager at the time of the extension.

Don't know what's happening obviously but things can change and I don't think the situation necessarily points to a failure of planning.

Either way it seems that the board has had enough and is starting to hit back publicly. Could get ugly.

 

[SpyLuke10]

Ed is your answer, whereas I don't know as I'm not working inside the club's management nor obsessed with media print/posts or club statements. But let's not gloss over the fact you pointed out Moyes/Fabregas/Fellaini to paint a biased picture. Just use the other managerial issues with club management.

Its not just Ed, its Ed AND the board.

 

[NoPace]

Please name a team in recent years that have won a league title or Champions league without a top class 29+ year old centre back.

If we don't need one, i'd be glad to see an example.

Luiz and Cahill won the CL at age 26 and under in 2012 and Ramos and Varane did it with Varane at 21 and Ramos just turned 28.

City won the league the first time with Demichelis being old and playing 27 times but that's hardly why they won it.

If Varane replace Pique or Umtiti replaced Ramos do you think those teams would suffer badly?

 

[SpyLuke10]

I don’t recall us being in for a ‘top class’ CB that has won a league title or CL in recent years. Besides, why would such a CB join our team?

There are top class centre backs out there who haven't won the premier league or champions league you know. Cough... Either of Spurs' two centre backs.

 

[Canagel]

It's very refreshing to hear that the board refused to bow to Mourinho's short termism. I like that. Overpaying for average players that aren't big improvements on what we have sets a precedent. But we need football people at the top that can suggest alternatives when this happens. What was stopping us from getting a player like Mahrez or even Lemar? I refuse to believe we weren't in for a RW because there were strong links to Willian. There have been plenty of right wingers moving both this year and last year that we ignored.

 

[devilish]

Wasn't the contract extension given while things were still relatively rosy? After that all the rumours of Jose falling out with Martial and Pogba started surfacing, and we started playing really awful stuff despite signing Sanchez. And in the summer, Jose's the one who started taking swipes at his employers through the press. The board could still have trusted the manager at the time of the extension.

Don't know what's happening obviously but things can change and I don't think the situation necessarily points to a failure of planning.

Either way it seems that the board has had enough and is starting to hit back publicly. Could get ugly.

I think we're heading for our 3rd manager witch hunt. Won't be surprised if the board won't find many supporters backing them up this time round. Most of us are fed up of changing managers the way we're doing

 

[Greck]

You guys need a DOF badly.

Let's be honest here. Jose would likely have a falling out with him as well. There isn't a thing here another DoF football couldn't have vetoed as well. If anything a DoF increases the chances of conflict of interest

 

[Patrick08]

Luiz and Cahill won the CL at age 26 and under in 2012 and Ramos and Varane did it with Varane at 21 and Ramos just turned 28.

City won the league the first time with Demichelis being old and playing 27 times but that's hardly why they won it.

If Varane replace Pique or Umtiti replaced Ramos do you think those teams would suffer badly?

But they had a team with Right winger up front. You can walk on One leg but you fall down with both missing.

 

[SpyLuke10]

face-saving bollocks

Thats exactly what this crap is.

 

[Jim Beam]

Considering it's all over media I'm baffled that Ed and the board got together in the room and thought that briefing about this will be a good idea. If this is all true there is so much wrong with it, it's hard to start even for me who is not Jose biggest fan.
- so, they gave him an extension but decided he won't be backed like before somewhere along the way. If that was because of the second part of the season, they should have immediately fired him.
- they are for long-term options while agreeing on new 2-year Fellaini contract, not seeing Maguire at the age of 25 as such
- they are for the quality, but didn't actually see Alderweireld as such (it mentions Levy calling us, not we approaching Spurs at all)
- so, this is basically the board or probably Ed in DoF function, something he's never done before and doesn't have any credentials to act as one
- if they acted this way they should have provided alternative options like most DoF do in such cases
- our transfer strategy was truly all over the place
- it basically confirms there are issues between the board and the manager right at the start of the season

And you put that in the media? For what purposes? Washing your hand or looking better in whole this? We blamed Jose many times exactly for this approach. The club is looking a bit like a mess atm.

 

[Patrick08]

Let's be honest here. Jose would likely have a falling out with him as well. There isn't a thing here another DoF football couldn't have vetoed as well. If anything a DoF increases the chances of conflict of interest with him in particular

A DoF would have Analyzed the players Jose likes to work with before hand and gotten them proactively when their prices were low and got right players instead of players who lacked engine to fit his tactics.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

If you look at Real's best players of the last 5 seasons, how old were they when they signed? Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, Isco, Varane, Modric, Kroos, Marcelo etc...? All <26 years old is the answer.

Yet Ed was still fluttering his eyelashes at Bale this summer even though he is 29 and would cost a lot more than Toby. If we had a DOF they might have come up with alternative targets with a view to the future. It is alright coming out with this stuff Ed, but you then have to name names. Varane is a easy name to bring up, because you know you can't actually get him. As people say Toby would have been a steadying influence and could have helped Bailly and Lindelof progress. If they were determined to go young then Lenglet and Pavard would have been right, or insisted that Harry Maguire was the right option when he left Hull.

 

[stuski]

Well you all agree that Maguire is no better than what we have at the club. You're all on something. Most of you want Jose out, this is the start of it! And wait till you see Smalling slip and fall over this evening then come back and say Woody is right.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Considering it's all over media I'm baffled that Ed and the board got together in the room and thought that briefing about this will be a good idea. If this is all true there is so much wrong with it, it's hard to start even for me who is not Jose biggest fan.
- so, they gave him an extension but decided he won't be backed like before somewhere along the way. If that was because of the second part of the season, they should have immediately fired him.
- they are for long-term options while agreeing on new 2-year Fellaini contract, not seeing Maguire at the age of 25 as such
- they are for the quality, but didn't actually see Alderweireld as such (it mentions Levy calling us, not we approaching Spurs at all)
- so, this is basically the board or probably Ed in DoF function, something he's never done before and doesn't have any credentials to act as one
- if they acted this way they should have provided alternative options like most DoF do in such cases
- our transfer strategy was truly all over the place
- it basically confirms there are issues between the board and the manager right at the start of the season

And you put that in the media? For what purposes? Washing your hand or looking better in whole this? We blamed Jose many times exactly for this approach. The club is looking a bit like a mess atm.

Agree. They as you say have lumbered us with players who we cannot get rid of and have basically given a vote of no confidence to Jose's judgement. Which does not bode well for this season.

 

[SpyLuke10]

we need football people at the top that can suggest alternatives when this happens.

I think this is the number 1 thing we can take from this window going forward. We need someone at the club who can work with Woodward and suggest alternatives that are in line with the kind of parameters Ed and the board have set. I hear this role usually being referred to as a "director of football".

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Luiz and Cahill won the CL at age 26 and under in 2012 and Ramos and Varane did it with Varane at 21 and Ramos just turned 28.

City won the league the first time with Demichelis being old and playing 27 times but that's hardly why they won it.

If Varane replace Pique or Umtiti replaced Ramos do you think those teams would suffer badly?

And Carvalho and Terry were 26 and 24 when Chelsea had the best defensive record in PL history.

 

[Patrick08]

Considering it's all over media I'm baffled that Ed and the board got together in the room and thought that briefing about this will be a good idea. If this is all true there is so much wrong with it, it's hard to start even for me who is not Jose biggest fan.
- so, they gave him an extension but decided he won't be backed like before somewhere along the way. If that was because of the second part of the season, they should have immediately fired him.
- they are for long-term options while agreeing on new 2-year Fellaini contract, not seeing Maguire at the age of 25 as such
- they are for the quality, but didn't actually see Alderweireld as such (it mentions Levy calling us, not we approaching Spurs at all)
- so, this is basically the board or probably Ed in DoF function, something he's never done before and doesn't have any credentials to act as one
- if they acted this way they should have provided alternative options like most DoF do in such cases
- our transfer strategy was truly all over the place
- it basically confirms there are issues between the board and the manager right at the start of the season

And you put that in the media? For what purposes? Washing your hand or looking better in whole this? We blamed Jose many times exactly for this approach. The club is looking a bit like a mess atm.

Well put.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

How can people not see this as a positive?

Woodward had a meeting with Perez regarding Verane for £100m (or even Bale). He is WILLING to pay the money for top players. Let's be honest, all the names we have been linked with Willan, Maguire, Toby etc are not better than our best players in these positions.

Woodward wants to buy players who are better than players currently have, not better than our 2nd/3rd choice CBs. There is a difference.
Think about it, would Barcelona/Real Madrid/Bayern Munich buy any of the players we have been linked with?

Why try to go over the odds on players who are not world class? Fans want to buy the best players, but willing for the club to pay over the odds for non-world class players?

I would rather wait a season for 1 world class player, rather than replace average players with slightly better players.

Mourinho has more than capable players, don't be fooled.

Toby is better than all of our CB's. Willian has to be better than Mata, who Jose insists on playing in that position. Maguire is looking good, but I agree the money was getting silly for him.

 

[devilish]

Considering it's all over media I'm baffled that Ed and the board got together in the room and thought that briefing about this will be a good idea. If this is all true there is so much wrong with it, it's hard to start even for me who is not Jose biggest fan.
- so, they gave him an extension but decided he won't be backed like before somewhere along the way. If that was because of the second part of the season, they should have immediately fired him.
- they are for long-term options while agreeing on new 2-year Fellaini contract, not seeing Maguire at the age of 25 as such
- they are for the quality, but didn't actually see Alderweireld as such (it mentions Levy calling us, not we approaching Spurs at all)
- so, this is basically the board or probably Ed in DoF function, something he's never done before and doesn't have any credentials to act as one
- if they acted this way they should have provided alternative options like most DoF do in such cases
- our transfer strategy was truly all over the place
- it basically confirms there are issues between the board and the manager right at the start of the season

And you put that in the media? For what purposes? Washing your hand or looking better in whole this? We blamed Jose many times exactly for this approach. The club is looking a bit like a mess atm.

this

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Approaching Madrid to buy Varane is no different than approaching Barca to enquire about Messi. It doesn't show any ambition otherwise Wenger was very ambitious when he kept talking about the players he wanted to sign and didn't come.

It's just saving face that's all. Varane is impossible to be sold. He has been prepared by Madrid for ages as their upcoming defense leader. They aren't selling him when he's actually starting to get this role.

If we approached him then it's just to have an excuse later when someone asks why the club didn't spend "oh but we tried to get Varane and failed" while it's completely the opposite. The club didn't want to spend so approached impossible targets, so they come out of this as winners, didn't spend a penny and have an already made excuse for anyone questioning their ambitions.

Very Arsenal esque.

It is all just for show. A bit of chest beating. Manchester United are the world richest club, but actually cannot sign anybody of serious world class note.

 

[LonelyFire]

An executive making a decision about the requirements on the field of a football team....good grief.

Clearly a briefing has went out from someone and it’s obviously meant to provide clarity on what happened - all it succeeds in doing is demonstrate how at odds the managers plans are from the clubs. This will only end one way.

We might be the envy of the world commercially but we are miles off elite clubs when it comes to the footballing side.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

@Dante and @MikeUpNorth are spot on!! Nothing to add except this.

As a member of several corporate boards I have learned from senior colleagues a few basic rules. These rules are none questionable.

1. You don’t brief the media about your own shortcomings. That’s plain stupid. Why? You open up a can of worms you can’t control.

2. You don’t start a public war against your own manager. How crazy is that!? That’s beyond stupid! Almost corporate suicide. Internal disagreements you keep in-house, rule number one on every corporate level.

3. If the board disagrees with the manager they either talk to him, give him a frame or specific orders how to operate, or sack him. What else!? Going public about why, who and how is borderline incompetence. Woodward basically gave away our future transfer plans. How wise is that!?

4. The last rule. The most important one. Listen now Edward and repeat 100 times until you learn.
# You have faith in your manager/CEO until you don’t have faith!!! Next step is to sack him, not go public with pathetic excuses.


04.45 in the morning. I’m reading this and almost lost for words. Fecking hell !

Agree. I don't necessarily disagree with them, but bringing it into the public domain is just turning the club into a powder keg. I cannot see this being of any help and could destroy the season down the line as the injuries start mounting up and we have a manager who now will have no relationship with the board.

 

[hasanejaz88]

One thing I don't understand about this is how Ed thinks himself to be a better judge of talent and what the team needs than the manager, so I can understand Mourinho's frustration at this whole situation. If it were a DOF, someone with experience of identifying talent (eg: Mochi), then you can understand disagreements between him/her and Mourinho, and you can imagine more constructive arguments rather than a simple 'Yes/No'.

Ed is pushing his power I feel, he is certainly not qualified to be overruling the manager, especially one with the CV Mourinho has. If the board feel there should be someone overseeing the manager's transfer activity then they should simply hire a DOF, someone with experience in these matters. Ed is the money man, Mourinho is the football man, there has to be an inbetween to arbitrate matters regarding transfers, which involve both money and footballing knowledge.

EDIT: I'm not saying Ed was wrong in not bidding for Maguire or Toby for the amounts Leicester and Spurs wanted, but I can understand Mourinho's frustration at being told by someone with no experience in football who is good enough for the team.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

They took up the option so that he doesn't go for peanuts if we decided to sell. Or do you prefer to see our players sold for less than market value. Also Shaw says Jose was texting him before pre season about how he was looking forward to seeing in the team this year.

Yet he still looks terrible, so we are then going to rely on a geriatric at LB and Shaw is quite happily sitting on his contract so he can go for nothing. I know Young has done a reasonable job, but he isn't Denis Irwin by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Treble]

Club is right to take a long-term approach. Signing 30 y.o. players would hurt the club as a major revamp would be needed in 2-3 years with Valencia, Young, Smalling, Matic, Herrera, Mata, Sanchez, Fellaini getting oldish.

Sanchez's wages though - absolutely obscene.

 

[meamth]

Agree with every bit of it. Having said that, I have no idea why did Ed sanction Lindeloff last year or any other CB who could have been available for 100m.

Using our scouting network could be a good start.

Because it's easier to buy good potential players because they have longer market value and most of the time their stocks will go higher.

Older players on the other hand aren't supposed to be at that price range of 50 to 60 million imo.

The market is just fecked up, we signed Matic for a decent price just a year ago.

 

[Kostur]

Club is right to take a long-term approach. Signing 30 y.o. players would hurt the club as a major revamp would be needed in 2-3 years with Valencia, Young, Smalling, Matic, Herrera, Mata, Sanchez, Fellaini getting oldish.

Sanchez's wages though - absolutely obscene.

The club shouldn't have signed an extension with Mourinho then or should've sacked him if they don't want to back him. This decision is laughable and given the rest of decisions made by them as of late, has got nothing to do with long-term thinking.

 

[devilish]

@Dante and @MikeUpNorth are spot on!! Nothing to add except this.

As a member of several corporate boards I have learned from senior colleagues a few basic rules. These rules are none questionable.

1. You don’t brief the media about your own shortcomings. That’s plain stupid. Why? You open up a can of worms you can’t control.

2. You don’t start a public war against your own manager. How crazy is that!? That’s beyond stupid! Almost corporate suicide. Internal disagreements you keep in-house, rule number one on every corporate level.

3. If the board disagrees with the manager they either talk to him, give him a frame or specific orders how to operate, or sack him. What else!? Going public about why, who and how is borderline incompetence. Woodward basically gave away our future transfer plans. How wise is that!?

4. The last rule. The most important one. Listen now Edward and repeat 100 times until you learn.
# You have faith in your manager/CEO until you don’t have faith!!! Next step is to sack him, not go public with pathetic excuses.


04.45 in the morning. I’m reading this and almost lost for words. Fecking hell !

this

 

[Greck]

Agree. I don't necessarily disagree with them, but bringing it into the public domain is just turning the club into a powder keg. I cannot see this being of any help and could destroy the season down the line as the injuries start mounting up and we have a manager who now will have no relationship with the board.

Dug his grave when be launched a character assassination on his employer. No sympathy for him as he's been running his mouth to the press all his career never learning a thing from his previous sackings. Someone teach Jose that youre supposed to stay diplomatic even if your employer is being difficult. I'll be surprised if they haven't already started looking for a replacement for an impending dismissal. They must be aware they're taking this thing near a point of no return.

 

[meamth]

Well at least the board tried to signed all of the targets mentioned, but the price are well above what they prepared to pay for. Added to the stubbornness of Levy and Maguire's long term contract it all seems logical why it didn't materialize.

It all seems logical to me and I think they all have the same mutual consent about the failed deals. It seems natural for the media to take this opportunity to further gain clickbaits and unsettle the Manchester United camp.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Dug his grave when be launched a character assassination on his employer. No sympathy for him as he's been running his mouth to the press all his career never learning a thing from his previous sackings. Someone teach Jose that youre supposed to stay diplomatic even if your employer is being difficult. I'll be surprised if they haven't already started looking for a replacement for an impending dismissal. They must be aware they're taking this thing near a point of no return.

Ed isn't beyond dirty tricks himself, so maybe they deserve each other.

 

[ti vu]

Luiz and Cahill won the CL at age 26 and under in 2012 and Ramos and Varane did it with Varane at 21 and Ramos just turned 28.

City won the league the first time with Demichelis being old and playing 27 times but that's hardly why they won it.

If Varane replace Pique or Umtiti replaced Ramos do you think those teams would suffer badly?

Terry was suspended. He was there and played his part during the campaign. If anything Terry was seen leader and shoulder some of the head coach job like motivation.

Pepe was Madrid best CB in 2012. It's convenient to write him off to make your point.

Demichelis may not have as big influence as the other 2, but to write him off despite his role in the team is straw clutching. He plays his part. City during that period binned quite few young CBs prior and failed to win the league. He may not be a better player, but his experience helped.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Club is right to take a long-term approach. Signing 30 y.o. players would hurt the club as a major revamp would be needed in 2-3 years with Valencia, Young, Smalling, Matic, Herrera, Mata, Sanchez, Fellaini getting oldish.

Sanchez's wages though - absolutely obscene.

Yet he sanctioned a new contract for Fellaini when he should have been the first one of them out of the door.