The beginning of the end... (the original board vetoed Mourinho's transfer wish list thread)

Enigma_87 said:
A DoF would at least recognize that someone like Toby is upgrade to what we have. Doing sweet feck all when the manager asks you for a CB and giving you 5-6 options is mental.
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We wasn’t spending £100m on Toby when’s he’s £25m a season after. So what exactly would the director have changed about that?
 
steffyr2 said:
So you're just writing this season off then. Which well-run team will you watch instead?
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How in the world did you come to that conclusion? I don't understand what your implying neither
 
ZenMaster Coltrane said:
If you're heading a club that's serious about challenging for the league and you get a list of targets with names that don't fit your age and value profile, do you not go back to the manager in May and tell him 'this isn't going to work, give me some younger targets'?

People siding with EW either don't realize or don't want to admit how incompetent the player acquisition setup has been since Gill left. Even then, they were beginning to struggle in the newly emerging transfer market. You hire a manager who's all about the short term and now hesitate when his transfer proposals are all short term solutions. They both need to go.
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I want to bold and size up everything you've said. The point about Gill is too right. This isn't a one off. Every feckin transfer window. At this point, I'm even wondering of Moyes was a bit hard done by this incompetent transfer management.
jk re: dm
 
Jose's targets were a bit trash to be honest. Why were we not linked with a talented and pacey right winger? Why were we not linked with left backs after that one Sandro link? Is Luke Shaw suddenly brilliant in his mind? I mean the players we've been linked with this summer have been so uninspiring. People just wanted a signing to be made so that a signing would be made rather than anyone worth genuinely getting excited over.

So even if the board vetoed Jose's choices I'm not bothered. They weren't all that in the first place.
 
Mainoldo said:
We wasn’t spending £100m on Toby when’s he’s £25m a season after. So what exactly would the director have changed about that?
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Toby wasn't going to be worth £100m. Our genius didn't even made an offer on him, citing being too old and not upgrade to what we have. You have Poch saying today that there were no offers on his players and then the papers briefed that the only thing we talked with Spurs about was Mata and Martial.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Jose's targets were a bit trash to be honest. Why were we not linked with a talented and pacey right winger? Why were we not linked with left backs after that one Sandro link? Is Luke Shaw suddenly brilliant in his mind? I mean the players we've been linked with this summer have been so uninspiring. People just wanted a signing to be made so that a signing would be made rather than anyone worth genuinely getting excited over.

So even if the board vetoed Jose's choices I'm not bothered. They weren't all that in the first place.
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Who were the targets apart from a CB option?
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Were we linked with any good LBs or RWs? Other than Sandro for a brief prior it seems not. Very surprising given our lack of quality in both areas.
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I bet ya Woodward would brief us through the press about them. It's probably how he and Jose communicate nowadays..

What's the point of giving targets when you'd get vetoed by someone who hasn't kicked a ball in his life?
 
Enigma_87 said:
I bet ya Woodward would brief us through the press about them. It's probably how he and Jose communicate nowadays..
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We usually find out. It's possible we after some incredible players no one found out about but it's rare.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Were we linked with any good LBs or RWs? Other than Sandro for a brief prior it seems not. Very surprising given our lack of quality in both areas.
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I found it suspicious that the writers and you are so quick to condemn Mourinho for wanting poor/old/short term targets then fail to name those targets?

Who are these players?
Apart from CB with Maguire/Boateng/Godin?
Who are these poor/old/short term players?
 
Jojo <3 Mou said:
I found it suspicious that the writers and you are so quick to condemn Mourinho for wanting poor/old/short term targets then fail to name those targets?

Who are these players?
Apart from CB with Maguire/Boateng/Godin?
Who are these poor/old/short term players?
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Willian and Perisic weren't exactly long-term targets...
 
Now I am confused.

- First of all I don't like these things playing out in the press. This is a clear brief from the club's side covering themselves for not signing anyone after the signing of Grant. Why did we need to do this which has potential for a clash with the manager with less than 24 hours left for our first game?

- So now the club has decided that it needs a long term strategy after nothing but short-term fixes the last 5 seasons? I guess it's good. However, how did giving Jose, an antithesis of this approach, a contract extension work with this?

- There are 4 players at the club - Mata, Herrera, Young and Shaw - in the last years of their contract. Then there is Darmian, Smalling, Pereira, Jones & Martial with a 1+1 remaining. Out of those, Martial and Darmian apparently want out. If the club believes is Shaw and Martial: are they going to be offered a new contract? How they are planning to convince them to sign a new contract when the manager would bench them at any given opportunity?

- I am all for the club not willing to spend 50m+ on older players like Toby, Willian, Perisis etc., who are not that good. The strategy of paying (or overpaying) top dollar for top players like Real Madrid is a sound decision. However, we do not have the appeal of Real or Barcelona. There have been reports of us getting rejected by top players or their clubs time and again. In this case, the only option is to acquire highly talented young players who can develop with time and become world class. Which is again not a bad thought. But, how will that work with Jose in charge?

- Is the appointment of Carrick and Mckenna a sign of the club wanting a more holistic approach from with in? Were they foisted on Jose or were they his choice to take over from his long time lieutenant?

I am unable to understand what is going on here. Have we decided to write this season off and move on from Jose? Or do they think this is Jose's last shot at a top job so they can mold him their way?

Or may be I am just overthinking it and everything will be fine once the season starts?
 
It the board dont like Jose's style of football shouldn't they help him get the players he wants that would fit his style and make everyone's lives easier
 
Mainoldo said:
We wasn’t spending £100m on Toby when’s he’s £25m a season after. So what exactly would the director have changed about that?
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Hate the fact that we did not upgrade CB, RB or RW when we had a couple of windows to do so. On Toby, there is little doubt that Levy was playing hardball as usual. Paying over 50m as reported for a 29 y/o who can be obtained for 25m next summer is not good business and short termism at its worst.

What puts me off is the latest news and spin being obviously fed by the board to the media. Ed and Jose should be having a go at each other and resolving differences in private, not essentially airing laundry in public.
 
Jojo <3 Mou said:
I found it suspicious that the writers and you are so quick to condemn Mourinho for wanting poor/old/short term targets then fail to name those targets?

Who are these players?
Apart from CB with Maguire/Boateng/Godin?
Who are these poor/old/short term players?
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I've addressed this in the previous post.

Nothing to get excited over this summer other than the initial activity. It's more suspicious that we weren't strongly linked with quality players at the LB and RW position.
 
It was stupid strategy to veto Mourinho's targets and then let him go into the new season as manager.

Either:

  • Sack him in the Summer, or
  • Ask him for a transfer list of <26 year olds
We're about to waste a season of potential progress for no good reason.

I always support the manager up to their final throes, no matter who they might be. Jose is coming off a promising season, so he's nowhere near that point right now.

But it's the board's job to pick the pick the right man and stand by him. They've evidently done neither and thrown the manager under the bus as a result. What a useless bunch of fence-sitters.
 
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ErranMorad said:
Now I am confused.

- First of all I don't like these things playing out in the press. This is a clear brief from the club's side covering themselves for not signing anyone after the signing of Grant. Why did we need to do this which has potential for a clash with the manager with less than 24 hours left for our first game?

- So now the club has decided that it needs a long term strategy after nothing but short-term fixes the last 5 seasons? I guess it's good. However, how did giving Jose, an antithesis of this approach, a contract extension work with this?

- There are 4 players at the club - Mata, Herrera, Young and Shaw - in the last years of their contract. Then there is Darmian, Smalling, Pereira, Jones & Martial with a 1+1 remaining. Out of those, Martial and Darmian apparently want out. If the club believes is Shaw and Martial: are they going to be offered a new contract? How they are planning to convince them to sign a new contract when the manager would bench them at any given opportunity?

- I am all for the club not willing to spend 50m+ on older players like Toby, Willian, Perisis etc., who are not that good. The strategy of paying (or overpaying) top dollar for top players like Real Madrid is a sound decision. However, we do not have the appeal of Real or Barcelona. There have been reports of us getting rejected by top players or their clubs time and again. In this case, the only option is to acquire highly talented young players who can develop with time and become world class. Which is again not a bad thought. But, how will that work with Jose in charge?

- Is the appointment of Carrick and Mckenna a sign of the club wanting a more holistic approach from with in? Were they foisted on Jose or were they his choice to take over from his long time lieutenant?

I am unable to understand what is going on here. Have we decided to write this season off and move on from Jose? Or do they think this is Jose's last shot at a top job so they can mold him their way?

Or may be I am just overthinking it and everything will be fine once the season starts?
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Don’t think you are overthinking and these are some important directional challenges many supporters are raising. What this distills down to, for me personally, is that the board realises after all the money spent, Jose is not delivering and continuing to back his short term goals with an unchecked budget is not the right thing to do. The scary thing is that Ed seems to be overlord and does he really understand how to build a squad long term? What is the strategy here?
 
Enigma_87 said:
Come on mate. Conte spent £370m for the two seasons at charge.

Zidane had the best team in the world in his disposal.
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Quite interesting really, the same squad that Benitez had at Madrid and he was a disaster. Yet he never took much blame for that mess. Treated like a god at Newcastle and the scousers still adore him.
 
What's with all the moaning? Has a ball been kicked yet? Did Leicester thumped us 5-0? Are we on the verge of relegation already? What did I miss?

Or is this all just based on more speculative media tweets?

People like you are the reason why these rubbish journalists still have their jobs.
 
In what world Toby isn't an improvement over Jones & Rojo? And why the feck Real would sell their 4 times UCL & WC winner for any price? Who the feck behind this idea

Young & Shaw aren't getting new contract , wheres our new LB ? And I don't want to talk about our RW at this point. United is managed by fecking morons.
 
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Micky Targaryen said:
What's with all the moaning? Has a ball been kicked yet? Did Leicester thumped us 5-0? Are we on the verge of relegation already? What did I miss?

Or is this all just based on more speculative media tweets?

People like you are the reason why these rubbish journalists still have their jobs.
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Well people are just following the manager who has spent most of the preseason moaning.
 
bonothom said:
Quite interesting really, the same squad that Benitez had at Madrid and he was a disaster. Yet he never took much blame for that mess. Treated like a god at Newcastle and the scousers still adore him.
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That squad had just won the CL 2 years earlier and reached semi final in the next year under Carlo. It was clear where the problem was under Benitez, as that squad proved its quality earlier under previous management.

I don't think Zidane is any great tactically. I think he just prepared the platform for the players to do their job without much troubles or doing nonsense on or off the pitch, playing the best player in each season without overthinking tactically and creating a good mood around the team. His status as a legend in front of the players helped in that too.

You can see that he decided to leave when he felt the team is entering a period in which they are going to do an overhaul and he himself believed he's not up to it, so better leave on the winning side rather than gampling with your luck more than that. They had a disastrous league campaign but were great in CL in this last season.
 
Stretch said:
I'm fine with Ed and board blocking a buy if it is for the sake of a buy. All indications are that JM was not really in for a RW or LB (by his own comments). He however wanted a CB desperately. The board's backed him with 65m already for CBs. Neither of those 2 seem to be first choice CB yet for JM. What's strange about that is that Bailly who has been here for 2 seasons was sidelined by JM for no apparent reason really. Further, we've a plethora of CB's at the club and I find it fair that there was resistance to sign a CB for the sake of signing one, especially an overpriced older one. Maguire's nowhere near worth 65m and he's not that much better than our current lot.

I also take issue with JM so eagerly wanting to sell AM. Again, I can't fault the club for saying no, we won't just sell one our brightest talents like that. And it's disingenuous to suggest the board hasn't backed JM since his arrival. They have. Hell they've even bought older players for him. The only thing that baffles me is why would keep JM around still. Maybe because we can't find a suitable replacement right away? But it's strange to be honest. I'm not sure how Ed and co expect JM to change his behaviour or demands.
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Good post.
 
DownRiver said:
My grandma is better than Jones/Smalling.

Toby is 3rd choice at Tottenham and is arguably not better than Bailly. He isn't world class level like Godin for example, so why settle for less? Didn't that get us in this position in the first place?
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He was 3rd choice because he wouldn't sign a contract, it wasn't a reflection of his ability.
Toby is better than Bailly, don't be deluded.
 
I absolutely hate Mourinhos style of football, but if you aren't prepared to fully back the manager, then get rid. Not doing anything is the worst option as everyone is unhappy now.
 
The board can feck off. We needed some experience and leadership at the back not more young and learning defenders who shy away when things get tough.

I’m with Jose on this. Give the man what he needs to do his job.
 
Simon Stone has reported it as well and it was leaked on Red Issue earlier.
 
fallengt said:
In what world Toby isn't an improvement over Jones & Rojo? And why the feck Real would sell their 4 times UCL & WC winner for any price? Who the feck behind this idea

Young & Shaw aren't getting new contract , wheres our new LB ? And I don't want to talk about our RW at this point. United is managed by fecking morons.
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That depends on which article you read. The ones I have didn't mention his ability but rather that the deal wasn't viable.
 
I'm surprised I'm the one posting this, because I'm usually the sort of negative cnut who's quick to criticise us whenever we're shite, but I kinda feel like people have been so quick to write us off based on our transfer activity (or lack thereof) and have forgotten that football can sometimes be surprising.

As a disclaimer, I don't necessarily think we'll win the league. If you had me putting money on it right now I'd have City to walk it again, and I'm not exactly confident we'll get 2nd either.

But I was looking back at 06-07, and during that summer window we only signed Michael Carrick. Who was great for us...but not exactly the world class signing needed to propel a fairly average United side (generally speaking) to 1st against a Chelsea side who'd spent two seasons pissing all over anyone who remotely considered themselves as competition. In that same summer we lost our most prolific scorer, and Chelsea signed Shvechenko and Ballack, two players who anyone who aspires to be remotely successful would've been looking to sign.

Then Ronaldo conveniently decided to go from a mildly talented youngster to one of the best players in the world, Scholes went from an ailing past great to someone who casually pinged magnificent 50-yard passes about 23 times a game, and Vidic and Evra went from dud January signings to being among the best players in their respective positions in the world. Which was nice of them.

Now, none of this means we'll win the Premier League. Again...the pessimist in me says we'll probably finish 3rd and Mourinho will go into international management at the end of the season, beleaguered with his disappointing fortunes at club level. And, generally speaking, the logic that we'll somehow do well this season without too many major signings against a dominant team who spends lots of money is the sort of tenuous argument I'd usually hate, the same sort of argument people used in like 2013 when they said Tom Cleverley would become one of the best midfielders in the world because it took Xavi until he was like 27 to peak, ignoring the fact that most players who're shit at like 24 continue to be shit for the rest of their careers, and that Xavi was an exception, and that he wasn't particularly shit at all when he was 24.

But I do think it feeds into my general argument that football can be surprising, and that teams who can sometimes seem like they've had a poor pre-season can end up turning out a lot better than you expected them to be. So while I'm not exactly optimistic in our fortunes, Fellaini might just manage to win the Ballon D'Or, is what I'm saying. And if he doesn't...I hear the guy who tried to knock out Materazzi in 2006 is out of work. Apparently.
 
I am kind of neutral about this. Don't think either Jose or the board did anything wrong.
Unless we had a bunch of scouts who had unearthed hidden gems, there were hardly quality players in the market. So the only targets Jose had were players like Maguire and Toby who were slightly better but the respective teams would have held us to ransom as they know there are no players out there. So I agree with the board if they think it was not a worthy investment to make.
Jose is well within his rights to be pi**ed off. If the board did not trust Jose, it had no business giving him an extension
 
Cheesy said:
I'm surprised I'm the one posting this, because I'm usually the sort of negative cnut who's quick to criticise us whenever we're shite, but I kinda feel like people have been so quick to write us off based on our transfer activity (or lack thereof) and have forgotten that football can sometimes be surprising.

As a disclaimer, I don't necessarily think we'll win the league. If you had me putting money on it right now I'd have City to walk it again, and I'm not exactly confident we'll get 2nd either.

But I was looking back at 06-07, and during that summer window we only signed Michael Carrick. Who was great for us...but not exactly the world class signing needed to propel a fairly average United side (generally speaking) to 1st against a Chelsea side who'd spent two seasons pissing all over anyone who remotely considered themselves as competition. In that same summer we lost our most prolific scorer, and Chelsea signed Shvechenko and Ballack, two players who anyone who aspires to be remotely successful would've been looking to sign.

Then Ronaldo conveniently decided to go from a mildly talented youngster to one of the best players in the world, Scholes went from an ailing past great to someone who casually pinged magnificent 50-yard passes about 23 times a game, and Vidic and Evra went from dud January signings to being among the best players in their respective positions in the world. Which was nice of them.

Now, none of this means we'll win the Premier League. Again...the pessimist in me says we'll probably finish 3rd and Mourinho will go into international management at the end of the season, beleaguered with his disappointing fortunes at club level. And, generally speaking, the logic that we'll somehow do well this season without too many major signings against a dominant team who spends lots of money is the sort of tenuous argument I'd usually hate, the same sort of argument people used in like 2013 when they said Tom Cleverley would become one of the best midfielders in the world because it took Xavi until he was like 27 to peak, ignoring the fact that most players who're shit at like 24 continue to be shit for the rest of their careers, and that Xavi was an exception, and that he wasn't particularly shit at all when he was 24.

But I do think it feeds into my general argument that football can be surprising, and that teams who can sometimes seem like they've had a poor pre-season can end up turning out a lot better than you expected them to be. So while I'm not exactly optimistic in our fortunes, Fellaini might just manage to win the Ballon D'Or, is what I'm saying. And if he doesn't...I hear the guy who tried to knock out Materazzi in 2006 is out of work. Apparently.
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Some good points there.

I mentioned in another thread today, that our summer so far is somewhat similar to 2006-2007. I'm pretty sure people had Chelsea walking the league then and no United fan thought we'd win the title.

So you never know. But a lot of internal improvement would be needed. Specifically from Jose imo.
 
The club really needs a dedicated structure in place on the football side of things.

I think both parties are at fault and I could see both angles, but it ignores the deeper rooted issue.

We simply throw stuff on the wall and hope it sticks.
 
The problem isn't that the club doesn't feel the players represent value. The problem is that the club blocked transfers on conditions that should have been sorted before May 2016. Why hire a manager and then try to change his nature?
 
I have no faith in Mourinho but even then I have no idea how people can be supporting the board on this one.

Woodward isn't a football man and shouldn't be making decisions on who we sign. He's there to secure sponsorships and sign cheques, not give assessments on footballers.
 
The apologism for Woodward and The Glazers as if this absolute cluster f*ck even started with Mourinho is pretty sickening. He literally pulled this exact same line with Moyes with Bale replacing Varane. We’re prepared to get anyone but we just got him. Same story.

Acting like they’ve stood up to Mourinho’s supposed desire for the elderly when they handed Rooney and Schweinsteiger those insane contracts, which ironically Mourinho had to sort. The majority of Mourinho’s signings have been 25 or under. Of his five older signings one was a (successful) rental and another a third choice keeper.

This clown is wondering why there’s no value available when two or three years ago he’s telling anyone that will listen we’ll gladly break records for players. Speaking of which the Varane stuff is also ridiculous. Both in the idea that that somehow represents value or that it’s a deal either side could get ever get done. It’s a lie, pure and simple. A businessman peddling bullshit.

No one’s suggesting he has to pander to Jose’s 5 man list but to act like a club the size of Manchester United, with all it’s resources, 19 points adrift, should be getting stuck in the mud like this is insanity. Forget providing Mourinho, provide the f*cking club. If not for him for next manager. There’s no structure in place to provide for that, nothing beyond a Mourinho list, this bald twat and those advising. Shambles, from the top down.

Mourinho brings a whole host of his own problems but the idea that this is some sort of long term footballing masterstroke when they’re essentially cutting off the manager they recently felt worthy of a new contract...Jesus wept, they’re selling you and the club down the river.
 
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