The Athletic: Man Utd preparing to conduct full audit of pastoral offering to 1st team + transition from academy

[phelans shorts]

It's definitely a reflection of how we have been run in recent years, that a club of United's size needs an external consultant to point this stuff out. It's actually quite a canny business idea, because I imagine there's lots of clubs within the pyramid that could benefit from this kind of input on a consultancy basis - but a club like United should already have all of this in order.

To be fair, I’d argue that a club like United should regularly audit stuff like this. Maybe internally audit it annually and externally every 5 years say. We’ve clearly been an off field mess for years so all these marginal gains can have a huge impact.

What does Fletcher do?

If what has been reported is true, his number one remit is to help academy players transition into the first team squad.

He’s worked at other clubs. Maybe it’s him that’s realised United are bad in the pastoral field, and need to improve?

It definitely could be his initiative or recommendation (or he just said we should look at this and Murtough has gone above and beyond in line with the total revamp) as you mention, a chunk of this certainly seems to be within his alleged remit.

That with Luke Shaw is totally believable. Probably to this day as well, would explain a lot.

At City and Pool, you imagine everything is in place and professional in and around football matters, so players only need to work and perform.

I have a feeling we leave the players all the freedom in the world, as nobody cared when Fergie was here as it worked and the man was all in one. The players need to be much more micromanaged and looked after, they just do whatever they want, on and off the pitch.

I can’t agree with the last part of this (I certainly don’t think the Shaw thing is true any more at least, there were plenty of murmurs around him and his mates when he first joined even if not quite as that post mentioned) but some people work better without micromanaging. The problem is we’ve had a one size fits all approach which hasn’t fit the majority.

 

[48 hours]

Saw this on reddit:

"Pastoral care and onboarding has been a big issue at the club, something that was barely looked at till Ole came in. From the day Fergie left to the day Ole came in, we were signing players and then just dropping them off in Chester. Players were pretty much left to sort it out themselves. Luke Shaw and Memphis were the two highlighted cases where Shaw just came up with a bunch of friends and hired his mate to be his chef.

God we are awful. We couldn’t even drop players off in the right city

 

[Highfather_24]

That's a terribly worded tweet considering it's from a journalist.

Really pisses me off when goddamn journos write these indecipherable cyphers, when conveying information lucidly is literally their job.

Like its your first language, jfc.

 

[Withnail]

We really seem to headed in the right direction. Great news that we're reviewing this area also. Weren't there stories in the past about players having to sort all this stuff themselves and struggling to adapt as a consequence?

 

[choccy77]

So according to the Oxford dictionary, Ornstein made something up, and unless Luke Shaw is cattle this probably needs editing.


pastoral
/ˈpɑːst(ə)r(ə)l/
adjective
1.

1. (of land) used for the keeping or grazing of sheep or cattle.
   "scattered pastoral farms"
   2.
   (in the Christian Church) concerning or appropriate to the giving of spiritual guidance.
   "pastoral and doctrinal issues"
   
   

You are what you eat.

 

[choccy77]

Ten Hag will need some divine help for sure. This season has made me something of a holy man as I've spent most of it on my knees.

Crying?

 

[UncleBob]

Saw this on reddit:

"Pastoral care and onboarding has been a big issue at the club, something that was barely looked at till Ole came in. From the day Fergie left to the day Ole came in, we were signing players and then just dropping them off in Chester. Players were pretty much left to sort it out themselves. Luke Shaw and Memphis were the two highlighted cases where Shaw just came up with a bunch of friends and hired his mate to be his chef.

Luke Shaw was still a kid when we signed him. He didn’t know anybody so hired 2 friends from down south to be his “driver” and “chef”. Of course, none of them knew how to cook so the three would eat takeaways and play FIFA every night.

Pogba lived in a hotel for quite a while, till he could sort out a house for himself.

Cavani had big problems when he arrived and wanted to go back to South America. Turns out he just has a protein filled diet and normally has these South American style meats that you wouldn’t find in a sainsburys. Took 6 months and the player threatening to leave for somebody to point out a butchers that he could get the things he wanted from.

Meanwhile over the road, when they sign a player, they’ve got houses ready to move into with other players nearby. Here’s your driver to make sure you get to training. Here’s a chef to get your dieting right. Heres a language tutor, they’re currently teaching English to these players. Here’s 3 schools for your kids, other players kids go there too. What does your wife like? Here’s some things to keep her busy. Here’s a phone with a UK SIM card, a selection of cars for you to take. Everything is thought of and done so that a player can focus entirely on their football.

Onboarding is a hugely overlooked part of modern football. The clubs are spending 10s of millions on players but not going the extra mile to ensure their investment is looked after so they can get the most out of it"

Well, if it was on Reddit

 

[UncleBob]

The reports of cliques might have also helped this along. Making sure everybody understands each other so they mix together better, then not so inclined to stick to their own little groups. Making sure there are the right influences in the background is also important and has wrecked a few careers. I am flabbergasted that a club of our size has basically left players, especially young players to their own devices.

Cliques are normal.

 

[Smores]

There's been plenty of stories over the years of what we do for players so i don't believe the above reddit fiction. Mata spoke a fair bit of how he was helping Cavani and showing him the area etc.

Organisations don't tend to rollback such procedures and the person leaving has been at the club a long time. It's unlikely the good care from Fergie's time disappeared.

I think we're rightly and finally just doing a top to bottom review of all departments. Ten Hag is seemingly a control freak so it wouldn't surprise me if he's demanded change across all areas of players day to day life.

 

[yumtum]

There'll be loads. Finding a place to live like someone said, but I think some clubs almost leave no stone unturned in that regard. From recommanding schools for player's children, to helping find plumbers/electricians etc. if work needs doing on their house, where to shop, where to go on holiday in the off-season, counselling if something happens in family life, dealing with anger issues or addiction, advice for young players about career paths/alternative options if they look like they won't make it and gaining qualifications. Almost anything they could need advice with.

Agents do a lot of that sort of thing too and some players have personal assistants.

Now this is why ex players suddenly go bankrupt and or get depressed.

All of that is part of growing up, if you, as an adult cannot figure out how to search Google for the best local plumber/electrician or don't understand the concept of calling around for quotes etc or how to search rightmove to find a house, then football as a whole needs to change.

Instead of hiring someone to look into how to babyfy grown ups more, how about hiring a life coach for 12-18 years olds in the academy on how to find things on their own, and how to be independent so they become well adjusted adults.

To be fair, it isn't just footballers, my girlfriends brother for example refuses to make phone calls (he's 22, almost 23) and has never paid a bill, never called anyone about paying anything, doesn't even call takeaways to order food, and he had a brilliant idea of getting his first job after graduation (graduated in September, quit his part time job in January and has done nothing since) in Singapore (his mummy said she would pay for his flights) - I swear we're devolving as a species.

 

[phelans shorts]

Cliques are normal.

Not in a healthy environment.

 

[Revaulx]

To be fair, I’d argue that a club like United should regularly audit stuff like this. Maybe internally audit it annually and externally every 5 years say. We’ve clearly been an off field mess for years so all these marginal gains can have a huge impact.

Indeed. It looks like either complacency (unlikely, thanks to the amount of noise around United’s problems) or people resisting change in fear it might damage their personal fiefdom.

It definitely could be his initiative or recommendation (or he just said we should look at this and Murtough has gone above and beyond in line with the total revamp) as you mention, a chunk of this certainly seems to be within his alleged remit.

Indeed.

I can’t agree with the last part of this (I certainly don’t think the Shaw thing is true any more at least, there were plenty of murmurs around him and his mates when he first joined even if not quite as that post mentioned) but some people work better without micromanaging. The problem is we’ve had a one size fits all approach which hasn’t fit the majority.

LvG recognised that Shaw was high maintenance, and was prepared to provide the necessary quantities of carrot and stick.

Jose couldn’t be doing with any of that. Which is fair enough, as long as you’ve got a squad packed with disciplined and compliant self-starters. Which we obviously hadn’t back then and haven’t now.

SAF seemed to have it right, having come to realise that One Size Fits All really doesn’t work.

 

[UncleBob]

Not in a healthy environment.

Ofcourse it is, we had cliques both pre-2000 and after 2000 under Fergie. It's nothing new, players will usually form cliques because they get better along with some twats than other twats. Big shocker.

 

[phelans shorts]

Ofcourse it is, we had cliques both pre-2000 and after 2000 under Fergie. It's nothing new, players will usually form cliques because they get better along with some twats than other twats. Big shocker.

There’s a massive difference between different levels of friendship and cliques. Huge difference.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Now this is why ex players suddenly go bankrupt and or get depressed.

All of that is part of growing up, if you, as an adult cannot figure out how to search Google for the best local plumber/electrician or don't understand the concept of calling around for quotes etc or how to search rightmove to find a house, then football as a whole needs to change.

Instead of hiring someone to look into how to babyfy grown ups more, how about hiring a life coach for 12-18 years olds in the academy on how to find things on their own, and how to be independent so they become well adjusted adults.

To be fair, it isn't just footballers, my girlfriends brother for example refuses to make phone calls (he's 22, almost 23) and has never paid a bill, never called anyone about paying anything, doesn't even call takeaways to order food, and he had a brilliant idea of getting his first job after graduation (graduated in September, quit his part time job in January and has done nothing since) in Singapore (his mummy said she would pay for his flights) - I swear we're devolving as a species.

You have to think that young footballers move away from their families very young to live in digs or shared houses, the age when a lot of lads learn basic DIY from helping their dads around the house. Cleaning their rooms to get a bit of extra pocket money. These lads earn enough money to eat out or takeaways, when a lot of lads have to learn how to cook as they cannot afford to do otherwise. They have to learn how to do their laundry etc. It is part of developing as a adult.

 

[UncleBob]

There's been plenty of stories over the years of what we do for players so i don't believe the above reddit fiction. Mata spoke a fair bit of how he was helping Cavani and showing him the area etc.

Organisations don't tend to rollback such procedures and the person leaving has been at the club a long time. It's unlikely the good care from Fergie's time disappeared.

I think we're rightly and finally just doing a top to bottom review of all departments. Ten Hag is seemingly a control freak so it wouldn't surprise me if he's demanded change across all areas of players day to day life.

I love the notion that Cavani, at 34, had to be told he could get meat at a butchers store, and this changed his life completely.

Cavani struggled because of covid, which meant it was very difficult for him to visit family as normal. Had feck all to do with not understanding he could actually go to a butchers store.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Indeed. It looks like either complacency (unlikely, thanks to the amount of noise around United’s problems) or people resisting change in fear it might damage their personal fiefdom.

Indeed.

LvG recognised that Shaw was high maintenance, and was prepared to provide the necessary quantities of carrot and stick.

Jose couldn’t be doing with any of that. Which is fair enough, as long as you’ve got a squad packed with disciplined and compliant self-starters. Which we obviously hadn’t back then and haven’t now.

SAF seemed to have it right, having come to realise that One Size Fits All really doesn’t work.

Think once Shaw got settled with a lass things started to change. No wonder SAF wanted his players settled down with a nice girl.

 

[UncleBob]

There’s a massive difference between different levels of friendship and cliques. Huge difference.

Why? A clique is nothing more than a group of people you have more in common with. There's cliques at work, school, daily life. It's perfectly normal. It's only a problem when you have cliques that don't like someone\each other.

 

[phelans shorts]

I love the notion that Cavani, at 34, had to be told he could get meat at a butchers store, and this changed his life completely.

Cavani struggled because of covid, which meant it was very difficult for him to visit family as normal. Had feck all to do with not understanding he could actually go to a butchers store.

Due to covid bubble rules and him being new I can fully imagine him not going himself at that point, and if the club didn’t research and sort this out early it’s a massive black mark against them, this kind of stuff was more important than ever during lockdowns.

The worrying part with Cavani is that he’s constantly injured since going back onto the diet he wanted…

 

[Relevated]

I thought the club was bringing in a new priest or something

 

[Revaulx]

Now this is why ex players suddenly go bankrupt and or get depressed.

All of that is part of growing up, if you, as an adult cannot figure out how to search Google for the best local plumber/electrician or don't understand the concept of calling around for quotes etc or how to search rightmove to find a house, then football as a whole needs to change.

Instead of hiring someone to look into how to babyfy grown ups more, how about hiring a life coach for 12-18 years olds in the academy on how to find things on their own, and how to be independent so they become well adjusted adults.

To be fair, it isn't just footballers, my girlfriends brother for example refuses to make phone calls (he's 22, almost 23) and has never paid a bill, never called anyone about paying anything, doesn't even call takeaways to order food, and he had a brilliant idea of getting his first job after graduation (graduated in September, quit his part time job in January and has done nothing since) in Singapore (his mummy said she would pay for his flights) - I swear we're devolving as a species.

I’m afraid that my generation (I’m 64) have turned out to be lousy parents in many respects. We’ve indulged our children, and they largely despise us. I’m certainly not expecting any of mine to be willing to look after their mother and me in our dotage.

 

[phelans shorts]

Why? A clique is nothing more than a group of people you have more in common with. There's cliques at work, school, daily life. It's perfectly normal. It's only a problem when you have cliques that don't like someone\each other.

Because cliques are by definition the latter. Cliques are exclusionary.

 

[calodo2003]

What is ‘pastoral offering?’

 

[Maticmaker]

What the hell is pastoral offering?

Studying for the Priesthood in their spare time, or maybe its a spiritual punishment... "missed two sitters today son, down on your knees and give me ten 'Hail Mary's"

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Got get more hands on deck to take care of the 10 new players Rangnick promised.

 

[yumtum]

You have to think that young footballers move away from their families very young to live in digs or shared houses, the age when a lot of lads learn basic DIY from helping their dads around the house. Cleaning their rooms to get a bit of extra pocket money. These lads earn enough money to eat out or takeaways, when a lot of lads have to learn how to cook as they cannot afford to do otherwise. They have to learn how to do their laundry etc. It is part of developing as a adult.

Completely get that, they're definitely in a unique situation, but continuing to do what football is currently doing to footballers, which is breeding cnuts (very few footballers are well adjusted these days) - just look at our young prodigy that has been unable to play since January, not saying every footballer is like this, but they don't live in the real world, and when they retire they're on their own, it isnt good for anyone.

There needs to be a rethink on how to educate young people in football so they don't just buy everything they need.

Hire people to do classes with them between the ages 12-18, cooking classes, investment classes, DIY classes and things like that, make it a group activity so it's fun.

I'm sure there are people out there smarter than me that could come up with structures to help these kids become adults, not just athletes.

 

[Relevated]

What is ‘pastoral offering?’

Assistance on a personal level, in terms of emotion, spirituality and general health/support in whatever form. A guidance, or hand on the shoulder.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Completely get that, they're definitely in a unique situation, but continuing to do what football is currently doing to footballers, which is breeding cnuts (very few footballers are well adjusted these days) - just look at our young prodigy that has been unable to play since January, not saying every footballer is like this, but they don't live in the real world, and when they retire they're on their own, it isnt good for anyone.

There needs to be a rethink on how to educate young people in football so they don't just buy everything they need.

Hire people to do classes with them between the ages 12-18, cooking classes, investment classes, DIY classes and things like that, make it a group activity so it's fun.

I'm sure there are people out there smarter than me that could come up with structures to help these kids become adults, not just athletes.

They need to do something. This is when problems develop later when they are used to being pampered and everybody bending over backwards for them. Then it stops and they can't look after themselves and cannot cope.

 

[UncleBob]

Due to covid bubble rules and him being new I can fully imagine him not going himself at that point, and if the club didn’t research and sort this out early it’s a massive black mark against them, this kind of stuff was more important than ever during lockdowns.

The worrying part with Cavani is that he’s constantly injured since going back onto the diet he wanted…

He was 34, he has lived in Italy.

How thick does people think he is.

 

[yumtum]

I’m afraid that my generation (I’m 64) have turned out to be lousy parents in many respects. We’ve indulged our children, and they largely despise us. I’m certainly not expecting any of mine to be willing to look after their mother and me in our dotage.

I'm 31 (32 I'm October) and my mother would have been your age now, and I can certainly see what you mean, though my circumstances wasn't ideal (abusive childhood, so doesn't bode well anyway) I consider myself to be quite lucky.

Like above, my girlfriends brother is an adult now, there's no way he should be as childlike as he is, he literally throws a tantrum when he doesn't get his way, and you're correct, many parents of your generation have raised absolute useless feckers, and it's only getting worse, I think my generation will be raising worse, too busy wanting to be friends with their kids rather than parents.

@phelans shorts I think it's just getting worse though.

 

[phelans shorts]

Completely get that, they're definitely in a unique situation, but continuing to do what football is currently doing to footballers, which is breeding cnuts (very few footballers are well adjusted these days) - just look at our young prodigy that has been unable to play since January, not saying every footballer is like this, but they don't live in the real world, and when they retire they're on their own, it isnt good for anyone.

There needs to be a rethink on how to educate young people in football so they don't just buy everything they need.

Hire people to do classes with them between the ages 12-18, cooking classes, investment classes, DIY classes and things like that, make it a group activity so it's fun.

I'm sure there are people out there smarter than me that could come up with structures to help these kids become adults, not just athletes.

This kind of change would still come under this same remit. Beside, players have largely always been like that, because society has always been like that. It’s not a new phenomena that players are arseholes, just ask Ryan Giggs, or Stan Collymore or George Best or etc… etc…

 

[phelans shorts]

He was 34, he has lived in Italy.

How thick does people think he is.

Did you totally ignore the bit about covid bubble rules in lockdown in a new country for any particular reason or did you just want to get a snarky comment in?

 

[DevilRed]

What the actual feck is a pastoral offering?

 

[UnitedSofa]

What the actual feck is a pastoral offering?

Plenty of answers in this thread if you’d bothered to read it

 

[WPMUFC]

What is ‘pastoral offering?’

Therapy with Fred

Spoiler

 

[UncleBob]

Because cliques are by definition the latter. Cliques are exclusionary.

It's on the basis of common interests. It can be problematic and it can be unproblematic at a club. We definetely have a problem with it, but we've had them in the past without problems.

Did you totally ignore the bit about covid bubble rules in lockdown in a new country for any particular reason or did you just want to get a snarky comment in?

He's a multi-millionaire and he knows what a butchers shop is. Why would it be problematic for him to get a hold of pretty much anything he'd want in terms of food?

 

[Greck]

Feel our structure has had like a billion overhauls already. Billionth and one time is the charm I guess.

 

[phelans shorts]

It's on the basis of common interests. It can be problematic and it can be unproblematic at a club. We definetely have a problem with it, but we've had them in the past without problems.

You’re conflating friendship groups with cliques. Different things. As mentioned the specific definition of cliques is that they’re exclusionary, which is always a problem in a team environment.

He's a multi-millionaire and he knows what a butchers shop is. Why would it be problematic for him to get a hold of pretty much anything he'd want in terms of food?

He’s just moved to a new country, in lockdown, in a covid bubble, where he doesn’t speak the language and the vast majority people he knows are at the club. The club absolutely have to help him fulfil his dietary needs in that scenario.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Saw this on reddit:

"Pastoral care and onboarding has been a big issue at the club, something that was barely looked at till Ole came in. From the day Fergie left to the day Ole came in, we were signing players and then just dropping them off in Chester. Players were pretty much left to sort it out themselves. Luke Shaw and Memphis were the two highlighted cases where Shaw just came up with a bunch of friends and hired his mate to be his chef.

Luke Shaw was still a kid when we signed him. He didn’t know anybody so hired 2 friends from down south to be his “driver” and “chef”. Of course, none of them knew how to cook so the three would eat takeaways and play FIFA every night.

Pogba lived in a hotel for quite a while, till he could sort out a house for himself.

Cavani had big problems when he arrived and wanted to go back to South America. Turns out he just has a protein filled diet and normally has these South American style meats that you wouldn’t find in a sainsburys. Took 6 months and the player threatening to leave for somebody to point out a butchers that he could get the things he wanted from.

Meanwhile over the road, when they sign a player, they’ve got houses ready to move into with other players nearby. Here’s your driver to make sure you get to training. Here’s a chef to get your dieting right. Heres a language tutor, they’re currently teaching English to these players. Here’s 3 schools for your kids, other players kids go there too. What does your wife like? Here’s some things to keep her busy. Here’s a phone with a UK SIM card, a selection of cars for you to take. Everything is thought of and done so that a player can focus entirely on their football.

Onboarding is a hugely overlooked part of modern football. The clubs are spending 10s of millions on players but not going the extra mile to ensure their investment is looked after so they can get the most out of it"

This could improve our chance (even if it's small %) in convincing players to come here and allow them to adapt in new country or new city quicker.

 

[Oranges038]

You have to think that young footballers move away from their families very young to live in digs or shared houses, the age when a lot of lads learn basic DIY from helping their dads around the house. Cleaning their rooms to get a bit of extra pocket money. These lads earn enough money to eat out or takeaways, when a lot of lads have to learn how to cook as they cannot afford to do otherwise. They have to learn how to do their laundry etc. It is part of developing as a adult.

Pampered bunch of sissies is all they are.

They should be made to clean the boots with their own toothbrush, sweep the dressing rooms, scrub the jockstraps, wash the kits, wash the cars, make the tea, cut the grass, unblock the jacks and clean the showers etc etc... all for 25 pounds a week a clip around the ear and boot up the hole if they are lucky. And they'll be glad of it.