The Argument for Giggs as our Next Manager

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I think there's a case for Giggs as a manager despite his inexperience. He knows football well and he knows the club better than any other candidate. He's basically taking over the job after having been groomed for 3-4 years. That's a better base than a new manager coming in no matter who it will be. There won't be radical changes and if the goals are met he'll be taking over a squad of PL champions that he helped shape.

The negatives with this appointment is his inexperience. However I don't see why he can't be given the chance just like Luis Enrique or Guardiola and more were given. There's literally no point in him taking over a small club in the lower leagues. That doesn't prove anything. Many of those clubs are a mess and the manager turnover rate is huge.
 
Do you think Bayern have been sucked dry of it's traditions?
Not particularly. But then they're not United are they. Whilst they have their own values, they are still a club run by a hierarchy who is heavily influenced by former players. Id like to think United could do the same, in regards to giving what made us so loved and revered for so long further longevity by employing Giggs at the club. Not going down this route would mean being a club run like a family, breeding our own success and trusting youth would be behind us in our history. Whilst changing managers every 2/3 years doesn't necessarily mean that, that's exactly what it feels like to me, especially after the squad has been ripped apart and players like Evans and Welbeck who, whilst they were not good enough for a starting place with us, are now no longer at the club because they were allowed to leave. And yes, i would rather keep the likes of them two around then say Valencia and Rojo who are both at the club still, or Ashley Young who is a good player and offers something different to Welbeck, but i would rather Welbeck be here then him.

I like LVG. I'm pleased he's here to stabilise us after employing Moyes went horribly wrong, but he's not the answer long term if we want to be recognised as a club who is different to everyone else like we have always been proud of.

Don't get me wrong, Im not saying employing giggs is the only option. I started off by arguing against those who for some reason are so opposed to giving him an opportunity. In the end argued so strongly its looked that way, but Giggs has become a symbol of what United stand for and if we have a chance of keeping him at the club as the manager then we should take it. Why not commend the club for doing so?
 
Oh God, I really hope we don't go down this route again. Have the club not learned after the Moyes debacle, that romanticism and sentimentality will in all likelihood fail a when it comes to high-level management?

Giggs is completely untested and three years under LvG's tutelage does not vindicate any decision to appoint him as manager. We need to take the pragmatic and sensible approach and hire the best possible manager available and suitable to the club.

Ideally, we would bring in Pep, as he shares a similar ideology for the game as LVG, but he would be able to enhance it and add a lot more creativity and spontaneity to a possession-oriented team that are quite frankly dull and too methodical in their approach. The squad really should be perfectly catered for Pep to take us to the next level.

Opposed to hiring Giggs, it would likely require drastic change in the way we go about things and the style of play. At that point, the play style/philosophy would be deeply embedded in a lot of players and then we would be reverting back to the 'United way' under Giggs. He would have to change so much and it might require more transfer business as you would initially anticipate.

We'll see. I just think Giggs as LvG's successor would really be a suicidal idea.
 
Oh God, I really hope we don't go down this route again. Have the club not learned after the Moyes debacle, that romanticism and sentimentality will in all likelihood fail a when it comes to high-level management?

Giggs is completely untested and three years under LvG's tutelage does not vindicate any decision to appoint him as manager. We need to take the pragmatic and sensible approach and hire the best possible manager available and suitable to the club.

Ideally, we would bring in Pep, as he shares a similar ideology for the game as LVG, but he would be able to enhance it and add a lot more creativity and spontaneity to a possession-oriented team that are quite frankly dull and too methodical in their approach. The squad really should be perfectly catered for Pep to take us to the next level.

Opposed to hiring Giggs, it would likely require drastic change in the way we go about things and the style of play. At that point, the play style/philosophy would be deeply embedded in a lot of players and then we would be reverting back to the 'United way' under Giggs. He would have to change so much and it might require more transfer business as you would initially anticipate.

We'll see. I just think Giggs as LvG's successor would really be a suicidal idea.

Why not try it for 2/3 seasons, though? What's the worst that could happen? We go through a trophyless drought for a while? Thats not suicide. The club has become such a huge brand world wide that we will always be in a position to attract the best players and managers in the world. If Giggs doesn't work then so be it, but nothing wrong at all in giving him an opportunity.
 
Not particularly. But then they're not United are they. Whilst they have their own values, they are still a club run by a hierarchy who is heavily influenced by former players. Id like to think United could do the same, in regards to giving what made us so loved and revered for so long further longevity by employing Giggs at the club. Not going down this route would mean being a club run like a family, breeding our own success and trusting youth would be behind us in our history. Whilst changing managers every 2/3 years doesn't necessarily mean that, that's exactly what it feels like to me, especially after the squad has been ripped apart and players like Evans and Welbeck who, whilst they were not good enough for a starting place with us, are now no longer at the club because they were allowed to leave. And yes, i would rather keep the likes of them two around then say Valencia and Rojo who are both at the club still, or Ashley Young who is a good player and offers something different to Welbeck, but i would rather Welbeck be here then him.

I like LVG. I'm pleased he's here to stabilise us after employing Moyes went horribly wrong, but he's not the answer long term if we want to be recognised as a club who is different to everyone else like we have always been proud of.

Don't get me wrong, Im not saying employing giggs is the only option. I started off by arguing against those who for some reason are so opposed to giving him an opportunity. In the end argued so strongly its looked that way, but Giggs has become a symbol of what United stand for and if we have a chance of keeping him at the club as the manager then we should take it. Why not commend the club for doing so?

I was disappointed to see Welbeck leave too but without a once in a lifetime manager like Fergie, we need to adapt to the market and change. I'd also love to see Giggs become a successful manager for United for 10 plus years ( What united fan wouldn't want this) but if we avoid emotional reasoning the chances of that happening are very low and in the world of billion dollar clubs and tv deals is it really surprising that the powers that be will choose the pragmatic option? Especially when the one time they used emotion to decide we ended up with He who must not be named.
 
Why not try it for 2/3 seasons, though? What's the worst that could happen? We go through a trophyless drought for a while? Thats not suicide. The club has become such a huge brand world wide that we will always be in a position to attract the best players and managers in the world. If Giggs doesn't work then so be it, but nothing wrong at all in giving him an opportunity.
The worst that could happen is we drop out of the Champions League and then the following season we miss out again. Now that would be suicide and it's not an inconceivable notion when City, Arsenal and Chelsea are all better sides than us and Liverpool aren't that far behind. So I would argue that it is a far, far too risky decision to make.
 
The worst that could happen is we drop out of the Champions League and then the following season we miss out again. Now that would be suicide and it's not an inconceivable notion when City, Arsenal and Chelsea are all better sides than us and Liverpool aren't that far behind. So I would argue that it is a far, far too risky decision to make.
We proved last time round its possible. We still attracted the best players in the world (Di Maria at the time) and we employed a proven manager who got us back in to the champions league. We will always be an attractive proposition for the best managers out there. I also think the squad will be better managed quality wise then what Fergie left us. We will sign a Neymar/Muller type galatico eventually (especially when Rooney gets too old) who will help us further up the field aswell.
 
To those who support Giggs becoming the next manager, might I ask how much weight you give to him having been such a good player? If it had been John O'Shea, or Phil Neville, for example, who had played the same number of games and been chosen as LvG's assistant, would you be equally supportive of them?

If your answer is No to the second question then I'd argue your views are based too much on playing ability, and not on managing ability. A great player will command respect (at least for a while) as a manager but the skillset of a successful manager is far different to those that make a successful player. For every player that has become a manager and been successful there have been many more that haven't, and their ability as a footballer appears to have no correlation to their ability as a manager.
 
I just don't see what he's going to realistically prove in the English game.
A promotion (or two, or three...) means naff all.
Overachieving really proves nothing (favorable circumstances can flatter anyone. Plus how long must he overachieve for before it counts as 'proof'?)
Winning a trophy proves nothing.

So what we're saying is - he must prove he can do something that dozens of not-that-good managers have done. And apparently that'll 'prove' he's ready?
Or he must do things that nobody has managed before and, maybe, I don't know... get Stoke/Villa to finish second in the league?
 
To those who support Giggs becoming the next manager, might I ask how much weight you give to him having been such a good player? If it had been John O'Shea, or Phil Neville, for example, who had played the same number of games and been chosen as LvG's assistant, would you be equally supportive of them?

If your answer is No to the second question then I'd argue your views are based too much on playing ability, and not on managing ability. A great player will command respect (at least for a while) as a manager but the skillset of a successful manager is far different to those that make a successful player. For every player that has become a manager and been successful there have been many more that haven't, and their ability as a footballer appears to have no correlation to their ability as a manager.


I'd say due to having played under Sir Alex and studied under LVG, he's got a decent shout at having learned something. Hopefully it'll turn out well, but with the pressure and expectations being so high at United, I'm not sure the club or fans will have the patience if he doesn't hit the ground running.
 
I just don't see what he's going to realistically prove in the English game.
A promotion (or two, or three...) means naff all.
Overachieving proves nothing.
Winning a trophy proves nothing.

So what we're saying is - he must prove he can do something that dozens of not that good managers have done. An apparently that'll prove he's ready?
Or he must do things that nobody has managed and, maybe, get Stoke/Villa to finish second in the league?
How about going overseas? He's known outside of the UK.
 
How about going overseas? He's known outside of the UK.
I don't know how many clubs would be willing to give the job to a guy who's never managed, isn't from the country, can't speak the language, and has never played in that country. No matter how glittering his playing career has been.

Scotland? Maybe. but he surely wouldn't take one of the lower paying jobs, and winning a cup/doing well with one of the rest isn't real proof. The chances of him doing anything like what Sir Alex did (which is real proof), in today's age, are beyond slim.

But, like I said, the kind of 'proof' that people are talking about is either not really great proof of anything (as dozens of average managers have achieved these things) or just aren't possible.
 
The funny thing is, look at Solskjaer.

His first two jobs actually make him look very promising. People wouldn't have had him at United, though. He had to prove himself. Inevitably, going to any club within the English game who aren't one of the top dogs means that it's 50/50 between success and catastrophic failure. A roll of the dice. Owen Coyle - style. On top of the world one month, struggling to find a win and relegated/sacked the next.

Solskjaer's pre-Cardiff record is relatively comparable to Simeone's before he went to Spain. The time to take a chance was then. Giving him time to prove himself was basically code for 'giving him time to inevitably have a disappointing spell at some English League club, where there's a limit to how well you can do but no limit to how poorly you can do'.

At some point the club has to take a chance if they're going to hire Giggs, because frankly this 'proof' people are asking for is not proper proof of anything. Every other manager in and around the Premier League has a promotion or two, or a cup final, or a period of over-achieving. So how does it prove anything?

Well, I guess it would prove he's not Steve Kean-level incompetent. but you'd like to think the club would have sussed that out by now.
 
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The funny thing is, look at Solskjaer.

His first two jobs actually make him look very promising. People wouldn't have had him at United, though. He had to prove himself. Inevitably, going to any club within the English game who aren't one of the top dogs means that it's 50/50 between success and catastrophic failure. A roll of the dice. Owen Coyle - style. On top of the world one month, struggling to find a win and relegated/sacked the next.

Solskjaer's pre-Cardiff record is relatively comparable to Simeone's before he went to Spain. The time to take a chance was then. Giving him time to prove himself was basically code for 'giving him time to inevitably have a disappointing spell at some English League club, where there's a limit to how well you can do'.

At some point the club has to take a chance if their going to hire Giggs, because frankly this 'proof' people are asking for is not proper proof of anything. Every other manager has a promotion or two, or a cup final, or a period of over-achieving. So how does it prove anything?

TBF Simeone won two Argentinian leagues with River Plate and Estudiantes prior to going to Spain. He also lead Catania and Racing club for a few months.

Managing a small club shows some managerial skills and a high level of adaptation. Its not easy to adapt to a small club when you've played with very best clubs for much of your career. Having said that its not a guarantee that he will be a success. Some managers are only good to lead smallish clubs. They cant handle the pressure of competing for honours and tackling players with great egos
 
I wouldnt say Solskjaer has ruled himself out forever because of one bad experience, if he goes somewhere else and manages to recreate some of the fairydust he sprinkled over Molde he will be right back up there in contention for the big jobs. If that doesnt pan out, that is too bad, it means the experience has done its job, shown that he can be a good manager in some limited situations, but is not in the very top bracket.

The Cardiff job was a strange one for him to take to be honest, I always wondered what made him do it. But I dont believe it was always going to be black and white - success of catastrophic failure. Or maybe it just depends on how you define success. If he had kept them up and made them a difficult team to beat that would have been enough. "Doing a Swansea", i.e. putting them around the UEFA places, would have been a bonus.

I sincerely believe if you have a team like that to Mourinho or SAF, he would have managed to keep them up at least.
 
Having said that, as I said, it is still early days for Solskjaer and I would really like to see him come good. They say you learn more from your mistakes than your successes, so hopefully he can use that to his advantage later in his career.
 
I was pro Giggs anyway and I think he would have done better then Moyes. It would be weird for a time, but people get over that quickly. Giggs could potentially offer us stability and we would have a change to plan properly. He'd also - jut like LVG, be pro kids so that's good. People talk about that guy in Munich, he's a hot head and could you plan 5-10 years? It'd be season by season with certain managers. Giggs has been here for over 20 years and would be an ideal candidate; especially when you look at how different the squad is.
 
TBF Simeone won two Argentinian leagues with River Plate and Estudiantes prior to going to Spain. He also lead Catania and Racing club for a few months.

Managing a small club shows some managerial skills and a high level of adaptation. Its not easy to adapt to a small club when you've played with very best clubs for much of your career. Having said that its not a guarantee that he will be a success. Some managers are only good to lead smallish clubs. They cant handle the pressure of competing for honours and tackling players with great egos
I know Simeone won trophies, but so did Solskjaer. he also did well at United in his role.
The bit in bold id my point. Doing well at a smaller club (which is what people demand of Giggs) proves nothing at all. Like I said, every other manager in and around the Premier league has a cup final, a promotion, a bit of over-achieving to boast of.

So at some point (unless Giggs achieves success that nobody else has been able to) a chance will have to be taken.
People say he needs to prove himself, but short of joining Arsenal/Chelsea and winning the league twice, what else is realistically going to happen?
We didn't deem Solskjaer's achievement as good enough. And Giggs isn't going to get a big Spanish job (if he can't get the United one), so realistically he wont 'prove' himself there, or in Germany. Because those leagues are completely dominated.

So people want him to prove himself, yet there's no point at which Giggs will have provided proof... unless he somehow gets a huge job somewhere else. At which point it's not half a special because he's already managed a rival.
 
Oh God, I really hope we don't go down this route again. Have the club not learned after the Moyes debacle, that romanticism and sentimentality will in all likelihood fail a when it comes to high-level management?

Giggs is completely untested and three years under LvG's tutelage does not vindicate any decision to appoint him as manager. We need to take the pragmatic and sensible approach and hire the best possible manager available and suitable to the club.

Ideally, we would bring in Pep, as he shares a similar ideology for the game as LVG, but he would be able to enhance it and add a lot more creativity and spontaneity to a possession-oriented team that are quite frankly dull and too methodical in their approach. The squad really should be perfectly catered for Pep to take us to the next level.

Opposed to hiring Giggs, it would likely require drastic change in the way we go about things and the style of play. At that point, the play style/philosophy would be deeply embedded in a lot of players and then we would be reverting back to the 'United way' under Giggs. He would have to change so much and it might require more transfer business as you would initially anticipate.

We'll see. I just think Giggs as LvG's successor would really be a suicidal idea.

Why would you assume this?
 
I wouldnt say Solskjaer has ruled himself out forever because of one bad experience, if he goes somewhere else and manages to recreate some of the fairydust he sprinkled over Molde he will be right back up there in contention for the big jobs. If that doesnt pan out, that is too bad, it means the experience has done its job, shown that he can be a good manager in some limited situations, but is not in the very top bracket.

The Cardiff job was a strange one for him to take to be honest, I always wondered what made him do it. But I dont believe it was always going to be black and white - success of catastrophic failure. Or maybe it just depends on how you define success. If he had kept them up and made them a difficult team to beat that would have been enough. "Doing a Swansea", i.e. putting them around the UEFA places, would have been a bonus.

I sincerely believe if you have a team like that to Mourinho or SAF, he would have managed to keep them up at least.
Well, if we look at what it would have shown, it's that Solskjaer can win a title given a strong team. It would show that he plays attractive football, that arguably suits players with higher skill level.

Him going to Burnley or Reading and not doing exceptionally well wouldn't prove that he can't manage a top side.
Not every top manager in today's game would do well (or better than everyone else) at a smaller club. Some are more suited to the top clubs.
 
Well, if we look at what it would have shown, it's that Solskjaer can win a title given a strong team. It would show that he plays attractive football, that arguably suits players with higher skill level.

Him going to Burnley or Reading and not doing exceptionally well wouldn't prove that he can't manage a top side.
Not every top manager in today's game would do well (or better than everyone else) at a smaller club. Some are more suited to the top clubs.
That may or may not be the case, but being firmly rooted in the hypothetical we can never prove that one way or the other. But when SAF got the job with us he hadnt only done well at Aberdeen, he had impressed at both East Sterlingshire and St Mirren. Which is what I base my assertion that he would have kept Cardiff up at the very least on.

I actually think a really good manager would do well at a small club. Not necessarily amazingly, but well enough that it would be noted. You measure yourself against a different set of expectations. But if I am wrong about that, which I may well be, then you have to take the decision about which risk you are most comfortable with: missing out on a possible hidden managerial gem, which is never unearthed because you dont take a risk on a manager unable or unwilling to prove themselves in the lower leagues; or promoting an unproven manager to one of the biggest jobs in world football, on the basis of nothing at all except a notion that it would be nice to have someone spend his entire career at one club, from the academy right up through to retirement at the age of 70, only to watch him spectacularly fail - with all the implications that has for the club and Giggs' legacy.

I guess we all have our own opinions about which of those looks likelier, and which would be more damaging. Given that I dont feel like we owe Giggs this job, to me the chance of missing out on what might have been looks relatively small and considerably less damaging to the club.
 
To those who support Giggs becoming the next manager, might I ask how much weight you give to him having been such a good player? If it had been John O'Shea, or Phil Neville, for example, who had played the same number of games and been chosen as LvG's assistant, would you be equally supportive of them?

If your answer is No to the second question then I'd argue your views are based too much on playing ability, and not on managing ability. A great player will command respect (at least for a while) as a manager but the skillset of a successful manager is far different to those that make a successful player. For every player that has become a manager and been successful there have been many more that haven't, and their ability as a footballer appears to have no correlation to their ability as a manager.

You're talking about different personalities. I would feel different because the likes of O'Shea or phil neville don't give off that persona to me that makes me confident in his authority.

If Gary Neville had become assistant manager with us and done alot of work with Moyes in a similar fashion then yes i would support him too. Same goes for Solskjaer. Despite him not being overly succesfull elsewhere if he had come in to Giggsys role before he was offered it, then again i would support him in his opportunity.
 
I know Simeone won trophies, but so did Solskjaer. he also did well at United in his role.
The bit in bold id my point. Doing well at a smaller club (which is what people demand of Giggs) proves nothing at all. Like I said, every other manager in and around the Premier league has a cup final, a promotion, a bit of over-achieving to boast of.

So at some point (unless Giggs achieves success that nobody else has been able to) a chance will have to be taken.
People say he needs to prove himself, but short of joining Arsenal/Chelsea and winning the league twice, what else is realistically going to happen?
We didn't deem Solskjaer's achievement as good enough. And Giggs isn't going to get a big Spanish job (if he can't get the United one), so realistically he wont 'prove' himself there, or in Germany. Because those leagues are completely dominated.

So people want him to prove himself, yet there's no point at which Giggs will have provided proof... unless he somehow gets a huge job somewhere else. At which point it's not half a special because he's already managed a rival.

There's a bit of a gap between the Argentinian and the Norwegian league.

I disagree that it proves nothing at all. It shows that the person have some managerial skills and he can adapt to different situations. Most of these players have played most of their career at a top club. Its difficult to adapt such know how to a small club with far less talent/resources and different ambitions. Having said that a number of questions will still have to be asked afterwards like can he handle great players? etc

Its very difficult for a manager to prove himself these days. Most of the time he will have to exceed expectations at a mid table club and then do the same at a higher level club. Usually such opportunity will given in a different league. Simeone coached to 2 different leagues before landed the Atletico Madrid role. Despite his successes he's yet to lead a juggernaut at par with Manchester United. Rafa Benitez managed 5 clubs (excluding Real Madrid youths) before he was trusted with managing Liverpool. Considering that I only rate Chelsea and Real at par with United, it took Rafa 8 jobs before he managed a United level of club. Mourinho had a similar long learning curve too

I think that Giggs idea of getting the job because he's Ryan Giggs isn't only dangerous for his career and the future of our club but its pretty lazy from his side too.
 
on the basis of nothing at all except a notion that it would be nice to have someone spend his entire career at one club

I would appreciate if you (and others, to be fair) would stop making this claim, as it means either that you simply are not reading any of what is being brought up in this thread, or are simply choosing to ignore the points being brought up.

There has been some excellent and well reasoned debate in this thread with those such as @Invictus - there is quite plainly and obviously more to it than just a romantic notion of "having Giggs and the class on '92 running the club".
 
To those who support Giggs becoming the next manager, might I ask how much weight you give to him having been such a good player? If it had been John O'Shea, or Phil Neville, for example, who had played the same number of games and been chosen as LvG's assistant, would you be equally supportive of them?

If your answer is No to the second question then I'd argue your views are based too much on playing ability, and not on managing ability. A great player will command respect (at least for a while) as a manager but the skillset of a successful manager is far different to those that make a successful player. For every player that has become a manager and been successful there have been many more that haven't, and their ability as a footballer appears to have no correlation to their ability as a manager.

In answer to this one - I dont think his ability as a player has any direct impact on his potential ability as manager.
Indirectly though there are a couple of things it raises - being a great player commands Giggs some degree of respect and authority within the club, as he is undoubtedly a club legend. Secondly, the fact that he was able to perform at such a high level for a long time, as well as changing his role almost entirely in his latter years, and keeping himself in such excellent condition - these factors illustrate in my opinion a good level of intelligence. If Giggs had been out on the lash every Saturday night and in the tabloids, or turning up overweight in pre-season, it would reflect poorly on his professionalism and overall intelligence and therefore probably affect my (and others) opinions on his suitability as a potential manager.
 
And come back with experience of a foreign league rather than the more competitive PL? It's even a worse suggestion.
Mourinho won the league in his first two seasons in England. Pellegrini won the league and Capital One Cup in his first season in England. Ancelotti had a really shit first season in England only winning the league and FA Cup with Chelsea. Arsene Wenger won the league and FA Cup in his first full season in the mighty Premier League.
 
There's a bit of a gap between the Argentinian and the Norwegian league.

I disagree that it proves nothing at all. It shows that the person have some managerial skills and he can adapt to different situations. Most of these players have played most of their career at a top club. Its difficult to adapt such know how to a small club with far less talent/resources and different ambitions. Having said that a number of questions will still have to be asked afterwards like can he handle great players? etc

Its very difficult for a manager to prove himself these days. Most of the time he will have to exceed expectations at a mid table club and then do the same at a higher level club. Usually such opportunity will given in a different league. Simeone coached to 2 different leagues before landed the Atletico Madrid role. Despite his successes he's yet to lead a juggernaut at par with Manchester United. Rafa Benitez managed 5 clubs (excluding Real Madrid youths) before he was trusted with managing Liverpool. Considering that I only rate Chelsea and Real at par with United, it took Rafa 8 jobs before he managed a United level of club. Mourinho had a similar long learning curve too

I think that Giggs idea of getting the job because he's Ryan Giggs isn't only dangerous for his career and the future of our club but its pretty lazy from his side too.
I say it proves nothing at all because:
(a) it's worlds away form managing at a top club. Every other manager in the Premier League has had some sort of success.
(b) being successful at a mid table/bottom half club is dependent on time. Give a manager a little while longer after their successful period and they usually undo most of their good work, and end up lowering their reputation again.
(c) Showing that the person has 'some managerial skills and he can adapt to different situations' is literally base-level managerial stuff. Hughes, Coleman, Coyle, Martinez, Moyes, Hodgson all fit that criteria. None are good enough.

As for the last paragraph, lets look at Pochettino. What would he have to achieve at Tottenham in order to be United ready? Is this achievement realistic? Or is he then required to go to another club?

Ultimately, if the club see managerial quality in Giggs, then now is the time to hire him. Ideally he'd have a year or two managing the reserves. But not cutting ties with the club completely, because once that happens, that's it. There's very very little chance of him ever being United manager because the chances of him over-achieving enough within the English game are very slim*, whether he actually has the ability to manage united or not. Realistically the best you can do is get fourth with Tottenham/Everton once.

* I say within the English game because managers don't tend to get their first jobs at mid-table clubs when they haven't played/come from that country.
 
Mourinho won the league in his first two seasons in England. Pellegrini won the league and Capital One Cup in his first season in England. Ancelotti had a really shit first season in England only winning the league and FA Cup with Chelsea. Arsene Wenger won the league and FA Cup in his first full season in the mighty Premier League.
So, you're now comparing Giggs to these more "established" and experienced manager? Although it looks like I am all for Giggs to take over, I was just making a case where I would feel he will do a job because of his uniqueness and having worked under Sir Alex and LvG. I believe he will deliver without having gone through the process of working at some minnow club. Those experience would lot add to his CV to do a better job. His "natural" promotion will also save another transitioning period. And there's nothing wrong with giving him a honest chance
 
I have this romantic notion of Giggs managing, with Scholes, G Nev and P Nev as background staff/coaches etc. I think it could work too.

But I still don't think United are out of transition yet. I expect it to take another season of LvG to continue laying down the foundations, and then another big name (Guardiola) to get us right back to the top. Then I would love to see the class of 92 working together at United.

Anyway back to reality...
 
I would appreciate if you (and others, to be fair) would stop making this claim, as it means either that you simply are not reading any of what is being brought up in this thread, or are simply choosing to ignore the points being brought up.

There has been some excellent and well reasoned debate in this thread with those such as @Invictus - there is quite plainly and obviously more to it than just a romantic notion of "having Giggs and the class on '92 running the club".
I wont stop making this claim until I see other real arguments for bringing him in. Because I just dont see them. I see a lot of reasons why the arguments against him are flawed. But that is not the same as a real, active reason why he is the best candidate. I have seen reasons put forward that pertain to be that, but I just dont buy them Im afraid. For example, going back to your OP.

1) Lack of Experience" & Similar Arguments. This is more a counterpoint like I said before, refuting the allegation that he is NOT up to it, rather than why, out of an open field of candidates, he is the best choice. You do mention "United Pedigree" here of course, but you come back to that again later. i.e...
2) Giggs is a proven winner who commands respect. "Giggs has won it all with United." I dont see this as a factor. Its just irrelevant. And I dont think respect as a player will necessarily translate to respect as a manager unless it is backed up by ability, which is not really dealt with in this or any subsequent point. It couldnt be, because he hasnt proved he has it yet.
3) We do not want another lengthy "transition" after LVG. I dont see this as a factor either. Other managers have come in after LVG and done well, he has a reputation for instilling good technical and tactical understanding in his players, that can be exploited in a number of ways by any number of different managers. We had a lengthily transition after SAF because he was here for the best part of 30 years, that is not going to be the situation after LVG so we dont need to make special provisions.
4) Giggs has learnt from the very best. As did Hughes, Bruce, Robson, Keane, Solskjaer and others. I dont see this as a reason to appoint him at all.
5) Giggs would not be on his own. Other managers have also been known to bring in supporting staff. So again, I dont see this as a reason to appoint him, I see this as a reason not to worry about the risk of appointing him.

One you didnt put in the OP but comes up a lot is longevity but again, Giggs wont be around for 30 years unless he is successful. I think this is looking at it the wrong way round. Bring someone in, let him achieve success, and he will stick around for a good amount of time. if it isnt decades, we may have to accept that isnt the way football works anymore. We tried appointing the long term candidate before, it didnt work out. I dont think this can be used as an argument. Who knows, Mourinho could be at Chelsea for the next 15 years, its not impossible. You cant make appointments based on what may or may not happen in the future.

More generally, you dont do things because you carefully and painstakingly eliminate reasons not to do them. You have to have an active reason to do it. What is Giggs USP? The only one I see is what I said before: the romance of it - and that is not nothing. I understand the appeal of it. But it isnt enough. Look at factors 1-5 above and think about how they apply to other candidates. Other managers command respect (the ones we should be looking at anyway.) Other managers can build on the foundations that LVG lays. Other managers may not have learned from SAF but the issue is what you know, not where you learned it. And other managers would have their own support networks too.

So I say it again: I really dont think there are any really strong reasons to appoint Giggs, besides the one, and it is highly debatable how much of a reason that really is. What we have is a lot of soothing counterpoints to those who have concerns - we dont need to worry about it because x, y or z. Or, better still, other managers also come with risks. But that is surely even people who say that can see risk is not binary, not black and white. Its not either risk or no risk. Its a big risk or a smaller risk, a mitigated risk.

If other good reasons have been posted that werent outlined in your OP and are positive reasons FOR Giggs, things he has OVER his rivals, then I apologise for missing them, I have not read every post exhaustively. But yeah, for me it all comes back to what I said before. The reason people want Giggs is because it would feel great to have a club legend as manager. But that's not enough.
 
If Van Gaal turns out to be a failure the worry is that Giggs would have been on two coaching staffs that have failed. He got a pass during the Moyes era but he's an integral part of the Van Gaal team. Van Gaal has said as much.

I can't see him having the respect of the players under those circumstances. Most of the current squad haven't played with him.
 
If Van Gaal turns out to be a failure the worry is that Giggs would have been on two coaching staffs that have failed. He got a pass during the Moyes era but he's an integral part of the Van Gaal team. Van Gaal has said as much.

I can't see him having the respect of the players under those circumstances. Most of the current squad haven't played with him.
I believe the failure of the two managers (assuming LvG fails afterall) won't dent Giggsy's credibility because of that. Historical revisionists are trying to use all sorts of excuses to back their claims Giggs is the worst choice. Players do not need to play with him to show respect because if a player who doesn't respect someone who has played in the highest level of football for over two decades and being so decorated, you don't need that player in the dressing room anyway.
 
So, you're now comparing Giggs to these more "established" and experienced manager? Although it looks like I am all for Giggs to take over, I was just making a case where I would feel he will do a job because of his uniqueness and having worked under Sir Alex and LvG. I believe he will deliver without having gone through the process of working at some minnow club. Those experience would lot add to his CV to do a better job. His "natural" promotion will also save another transitioning period. And there's nothing wrong with giving him a honest chance
Not totally, just pointing to other managers who have started their managerial career outside of England, come to England and been successful.
 
Historical revisionists are trying to use all sorts of excuses to back their claims Giggs is the worst choice.

You mean the kind of revisionism that says that Giggs has never actually managed a team for more than 4 matches. Oh wait.....
 
Never mind LitterBug's contention that 'lesbos are taking over!' (
whatchutalkingabout_smile.gif
) - the class of '92 are taking over our club! Soon, Giggsy will be boss, and Gary Nev will be in defence, along with Scholes in goals!1!!
 
Really what have Pep or Ancelotti done?

Pep inherited the greatest team in history with arguably the greatest player and greatest midfield. His transfer record is sketchy at best and he is at no more than par with what he should have achieved. Bayern have regressed under him. He's managed in a 2 team league and a 1 team league.

Ancelotti takes over clubs at their peak and wins cups, then leaves after 2 years. His league winning record is atrocious.

Klopp is the only one who has proved himself. Winning a 1 team league with not the 1 team. Twice. Beating our current manager in the process. He plays the 'United way '. If Giggs went away and did this, then people would trust him but this is the only way I think he could convince a lot of people.

Klopp would be my first choice but I think a lot of people would just keep moving the goal posts for Giggs and never be satisfied unless he did a Klopp.

I'm obviously being a bit facetious regarding Pep and Carlo but you get my drift. Great managers have to be given a chance sometime. 'Sending' Giggs anywhere but a top 3 club in another league is pointless.

Nothing, literally nothing. You're absolutely correct, they are nobodies.
 
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