The Americas Draft

Anderson Luís de Abreu Oliveira, the Golden Boy of Football!

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Batalha dos Aflitos (Battle of the Afflicted)

A memorable Campeonato Brasileiro Série B play-off match played on Saturday, 26 November 2005 between Náutico and Grêmio, a match played amidst enormous tension between both clubs during the game...and the promotion for Grêmio to Campeonato Brasileiro Série A.

It was a tense match with Gremio opting for a defensive strategy (because they were higher on the points table). Just after half-time Gremio's Escalona was ejected for a handball but despite that Gremio was holding on. It would have ended in a draw if not for a penalty call at 71' which also say another player (Nunes) getting ejected. This was a controversial call and when Gremio players protested, two more were sent off...leaving only 7 players (6 + GK) on the field) for Gremio. They still held on with Anderson being in the thick of things.

Even against such odds, Anderson never gave up and started a counter attack only to be victim of a dangerous foul by opposition defender Batata...for which he got sent off. Anderson and fellow player Costa took advantage of the confusion with Anderson receiving the kick, dribbling past two defender and keeper to score Gremio wins and gets promoted to Brazilian Serie A thanks to the lion hearted efforts of its star player, Anderson!

FC Porto:

His stint at Porto was short and unexceptional due to time out for a broken leg. He did manage to come back with a stellar performance against CSKA Moscow in CL and managed to impress Sir Alex Ferguson during a pre-season game against United.

Manchester United:

Bright and inventive, with bags of energy, but also quite prepared to snap away at the heels of the opposition, it appeared that United had signed a player that—although less carefree than in his Gremio days—was exactly what an aging midfield required...and he didnt disappoint! One of the best managers of all time, Sir Alex Ferguson had a vision for him and boy was he right! While everyone else saw a talented boy full of flair and tricks Fergie saw a hungry little boy that is going to make a first modern hybrid, something football word didnt see since 1950.

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Fergie united that brazilian flair and boys hunger that usually other south americans don't have and he got hybrid of Ronaldinho and Davids, both players he really wanted in United shirt but wasn't able to sign. It's not a coincidence that United downfall started when Anderson was pushed out from the club....at least fans have their memories, schooling Fabregas and Gerrard in big games, that night in Moscow where he scored a penalty and many more.

Career:
Trophies speak louder than words, golden boy was pure gold for every club he played during his illustrious career. Helped Gremio to promotion with winning Brazilian second division.

- At Porto he won double in 2006 and then retained the league the season after.
- For United he won so much that i will only mention the main ones - 4 league titles, World Cup for clubs and of course a Champions League. After he left they can't even get into the group stage satisfying themselves with Europa League places !!! :eek: After United he went home and you wouldnt believe what happened - Internacional won Campeonato Gaúcho.

But he wasn't only a club player like Messi or Di Stefano, golden boy also proved himself at international stage winning Copa America and a bronze medal in the olympics.

Tactical choice:

While it should be normal to just pick the boy and let him express himself, unfortunately we function in a society where everything you do is put under question so we decided to write this in advance to stop critics before they even started.

In our and Fergies opinion Anderson is a perfect box2box midfielder who offers great ability on the ball, great hunger for the game and European discipline. His advantages over Senna are that he can offer everything Senna can + more. His qualities in transition are second to none, people in UK are still talking about his long bursting runs which are crucial to the way we play.

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But not only that, you can count on fingers of one hand players that are better at controlling the game then Anderson and luckily for us, only one is in this draft - Gerson.

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It's easy to make a player look good via highlights and gifs....well, for you guys we have a every touch match compilation against Chelsea, enjoy haters.



Quotes about Anderson:

...joined us and you see the level of his performances. He's a different type of player altogether to Keane. But when you've lost Keane and you've got Paul Scholes coming to the end of his career, you ask yourself: ‘Who’s going to perform that function for Manchester United?’. You know Anderson’s going to become a terrific player – it's inevitable." - Sir Alex Ferguson

“I'd like to see him score more goals, but he's got lots of attractive qualities and the energy to get box-to-box. One of his best qualities is that he's not daunted by anything. Everybody talks about the flair of Brazilians, but the thing I noticed about them the first time I ever played against them was their mental toughness. Nothing fazes them, they just love playing.” - Bryan Robson

"You should see his inspiration and endurance, he's all over the place .... like a starving man after a pie. Amazing! Now if only I can get him to the field... - Sir Alex Ferguson (later in his career)

"He's a man marker par excellence with a dogged resilience in face of adversity. Had he been born in a earlier era, he'd have been ranked at par of Pele and Garrincha. If you look at the Brazilian NT, they never had a box-to-box midfielder in caliber of Anderson all their history. - Edgar Allan Pillow

"I'm just happy I didn't play in same era as Anderson. Him dropping back in support of Gremio's LB would have completely nullified me in Gremio vs Santos matches. I consider myself luck and owe my legacy to Anderson being born in future. "
Garrincha (I'm sure he would have said something like that)

"The Man, The Machine, The Legend" - Sjor Bepo

"Melhor jogador" - Random Unknown source

"I see lots of myself in Anderson" - Lothar Matthaus

"Greater than Pelé, happier than Goofy and fatter than Ronaldo" - antohan


Thanks to Sjor for gif's and important contributions!
 
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No time to read all. Have you done a rundown of unpicked players? Which page approx?

I take it those out and unpicked now are fair game to comment on?
 
antohan said:
No time to read all. Have you done a rundown of unpicked players? Which page approx?

I take it those out and unpicked now are fair game to comment on?
Click to expand...
Not really, a few names mentioned on page 38.
 
antohan said:
No time to read all. Have you done a rundown of unpicked players? Which page approx?

I take it those out and unpicked now are fair game to comment on?
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Go right ahead. There was some unpicked talk a few pages back but people didn't really do unpicked XIs, etc.

ETA Page 38, yes.
 
Quarterfinals all ready:

WED 9/21:

Maz/Mar/R vs. M. Goodman

Tuppet vs. Skizzo/Pat

THUR 9/22:

Enigma/Joga vs. EAP/Sjor

Oneniltothearsenal vs. Boris
 
He is still one of my favorite ever United players, @Edgar Allan Pillow, and I'm dead serious. So incredibly talented :(

edit: you can add that to the profile as well :lol: brilliantly written btw
 
My unpicked IX:

-----------------------Sergio Livingstone-------------------------
Josimar-------Marcio Santos-------Juan Lezcano------Antonio Arias
------------------Alemao------------Perucca----------------------
--------------------------Ruben Paz------------------------------
------Abbadie------------Lolo Fernandez------------------Eder----
 
One day - probably decades from now - when we finally hire someone capable of putting together a half-decent team, it will be because of the foundations laid down by Ando.
 
Just read through the Ando profile and decided we need to bring him back. Perfect partner for Pogba!
 
My unpicked IX - POOL 2

-----------------------Sergio Livingstone CHI-------------------------
Luis Capurro (ECU)-------Rogelio Delgado (PAR)-------Heriberto Herrera (PAR)------Antonio Arias (CHI)
-------------Nestor Goncalves (URG) ------------Gestido (URU)----------------------
-------Aurelio Gonzalez (PAR)---- Terry (PER)----- Gradin (URU) -------
---------------------Lolo Fernandez (PER) ----------------------

Subs:

-Luis De La Fuente + Blanco
- Juan Seminario
- Panama: Julio Cesar Dely valdes
- Uruguay: miguez or garcia

BRAZIL

- Bauer
- Dirceu
- Rai

ARGENTINA

- Sosa
- Jose Ramos Delgado or Jose Salomon
- Manuel Ferreira
- Enrique Garcia
 
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Downcast said:
My unpicked IX - POOL 2

-----------------------Sergio Livingstone CHI-------------------------
Luis Capurro (ECU)-------Rogelio Delgado (PAR)-------Heriberto Herrera (PAR)------Antonio Arias (CHI)
-------------Nestor Goncalves (URG) ------------Gestido (URU)----------------------
-------Aurelio Gonzalez (PAR)---- Terry (PER)----- Gradin (URU) -------
---------------------Lolo Fernandez (PER) ----------------------

Subs:

-Luis De La Fuente + Blanco
- Juan Seminario
- Panama: Julio Cesar Dely valdes
- Uruguay: miguez or garcia

BRAZIL

- Bauer
- Dirceu
- Rai

ARGENTINA

- Sosa
- Jose Ramos Delgado or Jose Salomon
- Manuel Ferreira
- Enrique Garcia
Click to expand...

Nestor is in mazhars team
 
Scanning page 38...

Tuppet said:
While doing research on Scarone I came across this excerpt -


Reminded me of antohan
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:lol: ffs

Great book, mind. You do realise the author is Uruguayan himself, right? We refer to our population as "3M football managers" as often as Jamie Redknapp says literally.
 
Oh crap, Wednesday is the League Cup match...I don't know if Wednesday can work, then. The match will come while I'm at work, and I don't want to get spoiled by the Caf in that time.

Is it okay if we move our match to Friday, @Mciahel Goodman? If we have to play on Wednesday, that's fine with me as well, but Friday will be much better for me.
 
Downcast said:
My unpicked IX - POOL 2

-----------------------Sergio Livingstone CHI-------------------------
Luis Capurro (ECU)-------Rogelio Delgado (PAR)-------Heriberto Herrera (PAR)------Antonio Arias (CHI)
-------------Nestor Goncalves (URG) ------------Gestido (URU)----------------------
-------Aurelio Gonzalez (PAR)---- Terry (PER)----- Gradin (URU) -------
---------------------Lolo Fernandez (PER) ----------------------

Subs:

-Luis De La Fuente + Blanco
- Juan Seminario
- Panama: Julio Cesar Dely valdes
- Uruguay: miguez or garcia

BRAZIL

- Bauer
- Dirceu
- Rai

ARGENTINA

- Sosa
- Jose Ramos Delgado or Jose Salomon
- Manuel Ferreira
- Enrique Garcia
Click to expand...

Putting together a competitive unpicked XI is impossible.

I can think of many unpicked players, but I'd argue that the picked pool is largely representative of the best the Americas had to offer.

Some great players miss out, but I can imagine their positions being overstocked (e.g. Miguez).

The only ones I can think of that should definitely be in there are:

1) Abbadie: WTF? Really? There probably aren't 16 better wingers, let alone right midfielders. On his versatility alone he is a rare gem in an all-time context, more so in SAM where tactically adept and flexible wide players are uncommon. Downcast posted a link in page 38 which I wish I had seen back when I picked him, it shows quite clearly his evolution as a player from rampaging goalscoring wingforward (goals per game) to creative winger at Genoa (assists per game) and tactically astute right midfielder at Peñarol again in the 60s (rarely scores or assists). http://www.national-football-teams.com/player/33704/Julio_Abbadie.html

2) Lorenzo Fernández: I find it weird I keep seeing Gestido mentioned and not Fernández. I wonder how that happened (maybe it's easier to google Alvaro Gestido while there must be tonnes of Lorenzo Fernández). "El Gallego" was largely considered Monti's equal at the time and had the better head-to-head record. I'd agree Monti or Zito later were more complete going forward, but as a pure defensive midfielder I'm sure many have been picked who can't hold a candle.

3) Rai: I know #10 is uber competitive, particularly with many going for various combos of inside forwards, but Rai was too good a player not to be in contention. Maybe I'm wrong and if I go check all 16 teams I can't find a place for him without changing their tactics. I doubt it, and Rai was a player that could be well worth adjusting tactics for.

Can't think of many other than those. Gradín, sure, lovely story there, but I see many formations without wingers and some great left wingers so it's fair enough. I would have made sure I picked him purely on account of this being the only draft he could ever get into. Alemao maybe, given how poor/threadbare some midfields have looked... I used to love Diogo at RB, but that was probably more the flashy bits than his actual defending. I think Ubiña was picked before so it's odd he wasn't here given how hard it is to find defenders... But yeah, not much.

Very good job lads, it's more representative a pool than any expert with a PhD could have put together :p
 
Updated dates:

WED 9/21:

Tuppet vs. Skizzo/Pat

THUR 9/22:

Enigma/Joga vs. EAP/Sjor

Oneniltothearsenal vs. Boris

FRI 9/23:

Maz/Mar/R vs. M. Goodman
 
Unpicked XI

--------------------------------Cejas------------------------------
Carlos Sosa-------Celso Ayala-------Juan Lezcano------Arias
------------------Perucca------------Bauer----------------------
--------------------------Dirceu------------------------------
------Abbadie------------Lolo Fernandez------------------Eder---

Others: Jose Ramos Delgado, Nelson Gutierrez, Enrique Wolff, Nicolas Fuentes, Julio Cesar Benitez, Luis Ubina
Sergio Batista, Lorenzo Fernandez, Modesto Bria Dino Sani, Julio Cesar Cortes
Hector Rial, Isabelino Gradin, Ermindo Onega, Camoranesi,
Vava, Kily Gonzalez, Claudio Lopez, Paz, Asprilla, Carlos Caszely
 
Joga Bonito said:
Carlos Sosa-------Celso Ayala--
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Aye, I had Sosa and Ayala earmarked as more-than-competent replacement defenders should the first choices be snapped up. Mulled over Ramon Ramirez, he was quite a silky midfielder in the 1990s, and the effervescent Gabriel Mendoza too.
 
Bloody hell, Vavá and Piojo Lopez didn't get picked? I suppose there was some sort of limit on Brazilians/Argies? I guess that also explains Rai.

Surprised Celso Ayala wasn't picked, I gave it for granted with some of the randomers being bandied about.

Lots of non AR/BR cracking players there like Paz, Onega, Caszely... but it's not like the ones picked ahead of them don't deserve it.

It's midfield that baffles me, Lorenzo should walk into this and even more so if nationality was indeed an issue. I can understand Batista/Alemao, but not Lorenzo.
 
antohan said:
1) Abbadie: WTF? Really? There probably aren't 16 better wingers, let alone right midfielders. On his versatility alone he is a rare gem in an all-time context, more so in SAM where tactically adept and flexible wide players are uncommon.
Click to expand...

Yep - he's the most conspicuous absence here, I'd say. I can't find the post, but at one fairly early point in the drafting phase I mentioned the fact that several of your known faves still remained unpicked - and he was the one I mainly had in mind.

Very odd, actually - not least since so many managers clearly went digging for your comments on SAM players: They couldn't possibly have missed the infamous chain draft - where Abbadie featured prominently, and in multiple roles at that, reflecting precisely his versatility.

As for Rai - yes: Quality wise there is no doubt he should have been picked, and he could have easily started too for some teams here, albeit perhaps in a slightly different setup than the manager ended up with.

Fernández could have been picked - easily - based on credentials. However, he probably isn't a player you'll go for unless you know a little bit more about him than the fact that he was part of a famous vintage. If you describe him as on par with Monti, he sounds like a shoe-in - but he isn't nearly as well known to most people: Selling players of that era who are below your Montis and Andrades (especially, I would argue, non-attackers) in terms of general recognition can be tricky.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Fernández could have been picked - easily - based on credentials. However, he probably isn't a player you'll go for unless you know a little bit more about him than the fact that he was part of a famous vintage. If you describe him as on par with Monti, he sounds like a shoe-in - but he isn't nearly as well known to most people: Selling players of that era who are below your Montis and Andrades (especially, I would argue, non-attackers) in terms of general recognition can be tricky.
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Actually, I feel that Monti-esque destroyers from that era (esp Fernandez, who has amazing credentials) are easier to sell than the likes of arthur friedenreich, for example - or the inside/outside forwards who don't even have the goal scoring records to back them up)

You can just say that they were tenacious and ruthless - and, considering the tactics, team credentials are a good indicator of their actual level.

Don't like picking players from that era though, even when I picked Sarosi it was impossible to understand him, many thought that he was a false 9, for example, while I understood completely different and no one could've actually said who was right here
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Yep - he's the most conspicuous absence here, I'd say. I can't find the post, but at one fairly early point in the drafting phase I mentioned the fact that several of your known faves still remained unpicked - and he was the one I mainly had in mind.

Very odd, actually - not least since so many managers clearly went digging for your comments on SAM players: They couldn't possibly have missed the infamous chain draft - where Abbadie featured prominently, and in multiple roles at that, reflecting precisely his versatility.

As for Rai - yes: Quality wise there is no doubt he should have been picked, and he could have easily started too for some teams here, albeit perhaps in a slightly different setup than the manager ended up with.

Fernández could have been picked - easily - based on credentials. However, he probably isn't a player you'll go for unless you know a little bit more about him than the fact that he was part of a famous vintage. If you describe him as on par with Monti, he sounds like a shoe-in - but he isn't nearly as well known to most people: Selling players of that era who are below your Montis and Andrades (especially, I would argue, non-attackers) in terms of general recognition can be tricky.
Click to expand...

1. Yeah, I do remember. The message was clear :)

2. If I was in charge of all the choices, I would have probably picked Rai & Valdo, two former PSG players.
 
Gio said:
Aye, I had Sosa
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Was surprised that he wasn't picked as he seems to have quite the stature and was a nicely rounded full-back who was solid by all acounts.

antohan said:
Abbadie: WTF? Really? There probably aren't 16 better wingers, let alone right midfielders. On his versatility alone he is a rare gem in an all-time context, more so in SAM where tactically adept and flexible wide players are uncommon.
Click to expand...

Agreed, he was pretty skillful for a tactically well versed player too. At one point of time it looked like Cubilla wasn't going to be picked either, which was quite the shock.

Chesterlestreet said:
Fernández could have been picked - easily - based on credentials. However, he probably isn't a player you'll go for unless you know a little bit more about him than the fact that he was part of a famous vintage. If you describe him as on par with Monti, he sounds like a shoe-in - but he isn't nearly as well known to most people: Selling players of that era who are below your Montis and Andrades (especially, I would argue, non-attackers) in terms of general recognition can be tricky.
Click to expand...

Agreed and it isn't necessarily a matter of research as well. Just about every manager has put in the yards in this draft and that is reflected by the overall quality of the sides and the minor quality differentials between most sides. Also another important factor to consider would be that the DM pool for the South American pool was ridiculously strong and deep, so it does make sense to an extent that people went for 'easier sells' in that position.

Chesterlestreet said:
Amarildo. He wasn't picked, was he?
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Nope.
 
Two of my favourite players when i started watching la Liga unpicked, Claudio Lopez and Kily Gonzalez
 
harms said:
Actually, I feel that Monti-esque destroyers from that era (esp Fernandez, who has amazing credentials) are easier to sell than the likes of arthur friedenreich, for example - or the inside/outside forwards who don't even have the goal scoring records to back them up)
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Yes, I can agree with that to some extent if the role is presented as a basic one, i.e. field him as a pure destroyer of some kind and he may not be questioned too much.

Generally, I still think attackers are easier to sell - but you obviously need statistics for that to work. If you can't point to an impressive GPG ratio, you're in trouble (e.g. Friedenreich, who's almost a mythical figure in terms of actual documentation).
 
Let's add new suggestions:

- Uruguay: Jose Piendibene ? Angel Romano? Pablo Garcia?
- Costa Rica: Morera ?
- Paraguay: Luis Vargas Pena? Bria?

Is Celso Ayala a 'greater player' than the following defenders?

- Delgado + Herrera + Lezcano (Par)
- Caetano+ Guteirrez (Uru)
- Gustavo Pena + Claudio Suarez (Mex)?
- Orlando de la Torre (Peru)
 
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