The Americas Draft

SIGNUP:

01. Aldo
02. EAP
03. Physio
04. Gio
05. Pat Mustard/Skizzo
06. Enigma/joga
07. Mazhar
08. Tuppet
09. DavidG
10. Raees
11. MounchesterUtd
12. BorisDeLeFora
13. P-Nut
14. Jayvin
 
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harms said:
Only 5 alerts from a single post works iirc, based on the time of the signing up, so most of those users haven't got one - if they haven't fixed that yet though.
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Good to know.

Let's see if they react
 
Chesterlestreet said:
NOTE ON ELIGIBILITY: Having represented a non-CONMEBOL/CONCACAF member does not disqualify a player. Nor does having spent an entire professional career outside the CONMEBOL/CONCACAF region at club level. In theory, a player who spent his entire club career in the Bundesliga and played exclusively for the Swedish national team, is nevertheless eligible for the draft if he was born in Mexico and could have been selected for said national team. Such a player would be an absurdity of sorts, but he would be eligible *.

* Whereas a Swede who was randomly born in Mexico City is not eligible for this draft, unless he for non-obvious reasons happened to represent the Mexican national team (or another CONCACAF or CONMEBOL member).
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What's the difference? Does the player have to live in the CONMEBOL/CONCACAF country for a certain amount of years, or do his parent/s have to come from that country also? Wouldn't a Swede who was randomly born in Mexico (Swedish parents on Holiday or something), be eligible for selection for the Mexican national team?
 
Jayvin said:
What's the difference? Does the player have to live in the CONMEBOL/CONCACAF country for a certain amount of years, or do his parent/s have to come from that country also? Wouldn't a Swede who was randomly born in Mexico (Swedish parents on Holiday or something), be eligible for selection for the Mexican national team?
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Maybe I'm missing something, but I too am unclear on the difference between the two.
 
Jayvin said:
Wouldn't a Swede who was randomly born in Mexico (Swedish parents on Holiday or something), be eligible for selection for the Mexican national team?
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No, he wouldn't - hence the caveat. The basic rule is that anyone born in a nation that is currently a CONMEBOL or CONCACAF member is eligible - but this obviously doesn't apply to (hypothetical) players who happen to be born, for whatever reason, in a country they have no ties to beyond being born there.

Brian Laudrup, for instance, was born in Austria (because his father was playing there at the time) - but it would be odd enough to consider him eligible for an Austrian draft.
 
I don't get the difference either. In the first case where a player is eligible, do you mean someone who was born in the eligible nation, lived there for his childhood, possibly played in youth setups there and then opted for another country later? So basically someone like Podolski would be available for a Poland draft, for example?

Seems like a way too elaborate definition. Just make it simple as in anyone who was born in or professionally played for an eligible nation is fine.
 
I understand the criteria is the citizenship, no?

Let's say Zidane could play an Africa draft because he is both Algerian & French... while Brian Laudrup - born in Austria - is not an Austrian citizen so that he can't play the Austria draft
 
Jayvin said:
What's the difference? Does the player have to live in the CONMEBOL/CONCACAF country for a certain amount of years, or do his parent/s have to come from that country also? Wouldn't a Swede who was randomly born in Mexico (Swedish parents on Holiday or something), be eligible for selection for the Mexican national team?
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I think it means we go by NT representation and not place of birth.

Represented Mexico NT, but born in Mexico or any other country- Eligible.
Represented any other country, but born in Mexico - Not Eligible.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I think it means we go by NT representation and not place of birth.

Represented Mexico NT, but born in Mexico or any other country- Eligible.
Represented any other country, but born in Mexico - Not Eligible.
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So, you want to exclude some players with dual citizenship?
 
Aldo said:
That's not what he's saying.

a player who spent his entire club career in the Bundesliga and played exclusively for the Swedish national team, is nevertheless eligible for the draft if he was born in Mexico
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I think this was worded incorrectly. He clarifies it as below...

Chesterlestreet said:
Brian Laudrup, for instance, was born in Austria (because his father was playing there at the time) - but it would be odd enough to consider him eligible for an Austrian draft.
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Downcast said:
So, you want to exclude some players with dual citizenship?
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Nope. As long as he has played for the NT of the Americas, he is OK despite any number of citizenships he may hold.
 
If the player played for one of the nations that are eligible he is available no matter where he was born, lived or go to school. If he didnt play for eligible nations(played for some other nation) but was born there he isnt available. That would be my rule, simple yet effective.
 
Aldo said:
Seems like a way too elaborate definition. Just make it simple as in anyone who was born in or professionally played for an eligible nation is fine.
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Well, that is the basic rule: Born in - or played for. Nothing complicated about that.

What you gain from the caveat is simply to avoid a possibly absurd Laudrup style scenario. But if people are confused, I can always scrap these caveats - thus opening for a possible (but probably very unlikely) Laudrup scenario of some kind.

The reason for formulating the basic rule in that fashion, is that there may be old-school players of interest here who might not be born in the region - thus the "or played for" part.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Well, that is the basic rule: Born in - or played for. Nothing complicated about that.

What you gain from the caveat is simply to avoid a possibly absurd Laudrup style scenario. But if people are confused, I can always scrap these caveats - thus opening for a possible (but probably very unlikely) Laudrup scenario of some kind.

The reason for formulating the basic rule in that fashion, is that there may be old-school players of interest here who might not be born in the region - thus the "or played for" part.
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Zidane - Algerian citizen - in an Africa Draft: absurd or not?
 
Šjor Bepo said:
If the player played for one of the nations that are eligible he is available no matter where he was born, lived or go to school. If he didnt play for eligible nations(played for some other nation) but was born there he isnt available. That would be my rule, simple yet effective.
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That would, per that formulation, exclude uncapped players - which you don't want.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I think this was worded incorrectly. He clarifies it as below...
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No he has divided that case into two :

Players who were born in Mexico and acquired citizenship and had ties with the country are eligible. So e.g. Zidane will be eligible for Algeria.

Players who were just randomly born somewhere on the account of their parents permanently living there but never had any ties or citizenship would not be eligible.

It is a pretty blurry line to be honest so it is better to just simplify it.

And @Chesterlestreet I think we all know what this draft is about and what players fit into it, all here would respect the spirit of the draft and you don't have to make specific rules for each and every scenario, specially the ones that are incredibly unlikely to happen. If someone does happen to go that route and go seeking for a player that just doesn't fit into the theme but was just randomly born in the region ( I can almost guarantee that wouldnt happen) then he would be obviously downmarked and you can step in in such a situation. I don't think you need to enforce such things. We area all aware this is a draft about The Americas.
 
Downcast said:
Zidane - Algerian citizen - in an Africa Draft: absurd or not?
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Well, that depends on the exact nature of the draft, I suppose. But it would be somewhat absurd, yes. If the theme is regional you're obviously mainly interested in players who can be said to represent the region - as a football player.
 
Aldo said:
And @Chesterlestreet I think we all know what this draft is about and what players fit into it, all here would respect the spirit of the draft and you don't have to make specific rules for each and every scenario, specially the ones that are incredibly unlikely to happen. If someone does happen to go that route and go seeking for a player that just doesn't fit into the theme but was just randomly born in the region ( I can almost guarantee that wouldnt happen) then he would be obviously downmarked and you can step in in such a situation. I don't think you need to enforce such things. We area all aware this is a draft about The Americas.
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Sure, sure.

I just find this sort of a thing a bit amusing, that's all.

Anyway, there are two aspects of this which are a bit important to stress, given the nature of the draft:

1. Place of birth isn't necessarily what counts most heavily (i.e. which country the player represented is equally important).

2. Having represented non-CONMEBOL/CONCACAF nations does not make a player ineligible.
 
Aldo said:
Well, what about uncapped players? One in particular comes to mind.
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Exactly - caps can't be used as an absolute criterium. Uncapped players should be eligible.

That's partly what complicates matters if you want clear rules. But as you say, people obviously understand the spirit of the draft - so, yes, I will remove the caveats. And then simply rule on whatever comes along - if anything does come along.
 
Should be alright now.

The reason for the seemingly overly elaborate formulation in the OP itself is that what said formulation amounts to actually applies to several possible (and even likely) picks, and is very relevant for the pool division - so that stands.

The rule itself is simple, though: Born in the Americas - or played for a national team from the region.

If someone comes up with a Laudrup (or Zidane) style pick, we'll just deal with that if and when.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Yes - but that isn't what you said:
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What i said is that someone like Podolski isnt available for Poland draft because he played for another nation, didnt mention uncapped players because i assumed they go by the place of birth.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Just let it be as long as it fits the rule above. Not that it'd skew the pool or something.
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Yeah, we'll see - I doubt anyone will make such a pick, but if it does happen I presume the manager in question will present a case of sorts (as it would otherwise seem to go against the spirit of the draft, and can be dismissed on those grounds).
 
Šjor Bepo said:
What i said is that someone like Podolski isnt available for Poland draft because he played for another nation, didnt mention uncapped players because i assumed they go by the place of birth.
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Yes, I understand that - I just commented on what you literally said in the part I quoted (which wouldn't work literally as a rule).

But - again - we are in agreement, as far as I can see.
 
Full respect for the work the guys have put in to make those gifs and find those quotes but the final thread shows exactly why it will be great to have OPs without all the glitter. Just an eyesore at this point and I had to put in a shift just to find the one paragraph where the manager was actually talking about what a player will be doing in the said game between all the 'he's done this, he's done that, he's great in this one through ball he once made' media cluster.
 
Aldo said:
Full respect for the work the guys have put in to make those gifs and find those quotes but the final thread shows exactly why it will be great to have OPs without all the glitter. Just an eyesore at this point and I had to put in a shift just to find the one paragraph where the manager was actually talking about what a player will be doing in the said game between all the 'he's done this, he's done that, he's great in this one through ball he once made' media cluster.
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Couldn't agree more with this. I like to keep my op down to the actual game with maybe a couple of lines on how his playing style fits. It gets lost in the massive OPs of others though and I always feel like I lose votes due to not matching sheer output.
 
P-Nut0712 said:
Couldn't agree more with this. I like to keep my op down to the actual game with maybe a couple of lines on how his playing style fits. It gets lost in the massive OPs of others though and I always feel like I lose votes due to not matching sheer output.
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Indeed. This is why I came up with the short template in the last one I ran.

For anyone who knows anything about writing reports, the OP should basically be the 'Summary' that is at the beginning of every report and gives a brief precise overview of what you are about to read, not the whole thing whatsoever. You have the whole thread at your disposal to further explain and elaborate each and every aspect in however much detail you wish to, but just like a report, the first section has to be a short summary for someone who wants to know what's happening without having to go through the details.
 
P-Nut0712 said:
It gets lost in the massive OPs of others though and I always feel like I lose votes due to not matching sheer output.
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I've often wondered about that: I suspect it could go both ways. Some may be impressed by the wealth of information (or the presentation of it, or both), whereas others may actually find it a turn-off.

And then others again probably ignore it more or less completely - preferring to go with their own interpretation of how the players on display would perform.
 
What I would like to see is - simply - a change of habits when it comes to where the material is posted: Information is a good thing - presenting players thoroughly is also a good thing. Anecdotes and quotes are great (best feature of these drafts, I would say). But post that stuff in the draft thread - and link to it. Link to multiple posts in the main thread if you need to. If people can't be arsed to click on a link - they probably aren't that interested to begin with.
 
P-Nut0712 said:
Couldn't agree more with this. I like to keep my op down to the actual game with maybe a couple of lines on how his playing style fits. It gets lost in the massive OPs of others though and I always feel like I lose votes due to not matching sheer output.
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I confirm some OPs were excessive :wenger:

In the last draft, let's say Pogba was not very popular :wenger:
 
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