The “Ole In” Brigade

Lentwood said:
I don’t understand how you can conclude that Palace and Leicester robbed us for AWB and Maguire. We paid market value for established PL players.

When you sign a player who has excelled in Serie A or La Liga, you take a risk. How will the player settle? Will they adapt to the culture, the weather, the dressing room? Will their partner demand a move away when they realise it pisses it down in Manchester 362 days a year and gets dark at 3pm for 4 months of the year? Will they flirt with Barcelona and Madrid the moment they have a few decent games? Will they cope with the pace and physicality of the English game?

Sure, we could have signed Sergio Serginho from Atheltic de Espana or Pablo Pasta from FC Turin for half the price and posters would have fallen over themselves with excitement, despite never having actually seen them complete 90mins.

Problem is, Ole needed “safe bets” when he walked into the club. Is Maguire world class? No. Is Wan Bissake world class? No. But are they above average players who are proven in the PL? Yes.

Once we have 15/16 players who are very capable in one or two positions, we can start taking risks. We’re probably approach that point now. When Ole arrived, we had little room for manoeuvre - two bad signings and we could have finished 10th. You pay a premium for knowing the risk for an 8/10 PL player is lower.
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when you compare what we spen on Maguire to what we spent on Bailly, Jones and Rojo (wages and transfer fees) - it looks like money well spent.

some people can’t get to grips with how markets work, and the idea of scarcity.

some others just have a blind dislike of certain players for whatever reason. Unfortunately for them, they can’t even see past it when they are playing well.

Maguire has come in and done well. He’s never injured, which has been a massive problem at CB for a decade. Couldn’t care less what he cost, there was no one else available.
 
devilish said:
You don't spend 130m on two 'above average' players which is exactly how I would describe Maguire.
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It's certainly not a peak time for centre backs but I don't think there's many in the division better than him.

I'd prefer booting 80m into him than keep shelling 30s on punts like Bailly Lindelof and Rojo.
 
Ole in? I still find myself randomly thinking 'its bloody great that Ole is our manager' about 3 times per day.

Such a difference compared to the dark days of The Toxic One.
 
We're progressing. I watched a lot of United. They should get the word 'tempo' stamped on their foreheads. I think we're conscious of our weak underbelly but we've lots of potential to improve. Some people look into the future and say, Ole won't win anything. But oles rebuilding a squad and there is strong competition and there are problems with troublesome agents who might mean we miss out on targets. People need to put down this sickness. Where winning and seeing other teams win distorts reality and their perception. Because people get addicted. If you get a like on facebook, its shown people like it but in reality it's meaningless. I think many are delusional, arrogant and foolish. But in the early days of Sir Alex, there were people wanting him out! And he'd won trophies in Scotland.

Try to enjoy the game. Not let it become an addiction. Not let it turn you mean so that you throw a strop when it don't go your way. We're fortunate. And we'll be fortunate again. But enjoy the game because it's a game. We all know money has destroyed the game to a point. We know this. We know many players are frauds and many don't play out of love but to line their pockets. We'll lose again and again. Sure we'd probably struggle if we took our Bruno but that's the same in all teams. The one year we didn't win the league with Eric in the side, he was suspended for a large part of it. Madrid, would have lost many trophies without Ronaldo etc. We just got to calm down and enjoy the fact we have a manager who isn't full of shite.
 
Sandikan said:
It's certainly not a peak time for centre backs but I don't think there's many in the division better than him.

I'd prefer booting 80m into him than keep shelling 30s on punts like Bailly Lindelof and Rojo.
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We made a slightly better then ordinary Cb the most expensive Cb in the world. To make matters worse his weaknesses cannot be properly coached out of the game. Proper coaching won't make him faster or intelligent (football wise)

The guy is error prone, he's slow and commits a brainfart on a regular basis. He's not that much better to lindelof
 
devilish said:
Inexperienced managers need experienced people around them especially at a juggernaut club like United whose board of director happens to be filled with bankers not football people. It's not as if he can walk in Woodward's office and ask for football advice. There's nothing to be ashamed off in asking for help either. Sir Alex himself surrounded with the best assistants and coaching staff he could get his hands off, people like Mclaren, Queroz, Rene and Smith. Most were half decent managers in their own right. I dare to say that's the reason Sir Alex's career lasted so long. TBF the manager's job is a lonely and high stressful job, so having a pack of loyal yes men is quite tempting. However its very hard for a manager to reinvent his game if he surround himself with people with his same mentality.

I also understand that certain changes I am asking for (ex DOF) go beyond the manager's premise. However I do believe that Ole can push for such changes. First of all, even the staunchest Ole out admits that he loves the club. Thus he can at least push the club in that direction if he want to. Secondly if Ole leaks the need of United signing a DOF or/and head of recruitment then every single supporter whose not an idiot would rally behind him. That include most Ole outers as well. Finally the Glazers might not understand football but they do understand ££££. They probably understand that having a big chunk of that 1Billion in transfer money thrown in the bin + 3 managers sacked is not great. Honestly if we add a top DOF and maybe bring someone like Faria back then I'd consider this more of a progression then our current 3rd place.
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I love Carrick as a player.

God knows what happened. But I can't get this picture out of my mind, when Carrick was all smiling like little puppy when talking to Pep. Just after a cowardies draw at home.

You're right. United coach is still amateur, most likely mr. yes man. They should not coaching one of the biggest Club in the world.
 
devilish said:
We made a slightly better then ordinary Cb the most expensive Cb in the world. To make matters worse his weaknesses cannot be properly coached out of the game. Proper coaching won't make him faster or intelligent (football wise)

The guy is error prone, he's slow and commits a brainfart on a regular basis. He's not that much better to lindelof
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So what. He is pretty good and better than what we had. You talk about it like its some glaring transfer error that made us look foolish. It wasnt and it hasnt. Enjoy the ride mate.
 
Icemav said:
So what. He is pretty good and better than what we had. You talk about it like its some glaring transfer error that made us look foolish. It wasnt and it hasnt. Enjoy the ride mate.
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Being slightly better to what we've got hardly justify spending 80m on him. I also suggest that we wait before actually saying that as well. Fans needed time before admitted that Jones wasn't the new Duncan Edwards, that Bailly wasn't the solution to our problem and that Rojo is crap. I can see Maguire taking the same route.
 
Sweet Square said:
@devilish

Wouldn't you just be happier playing fifa than doing whatever the hell this is ?
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I only played the first version of FIFA. Never liked the thing. Cyberpunk is decent though and I loved Witcher III

Can we return to football now?
 
devilish said:
I only played the first version of FIFA. Never liked the thing. Cyberpunk is decent though and I loved Witcher III

Can we return to football now?
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It just seems to be making you miserable(Thats how it comes across to me anyway).

United are doing quite well atm.
 
devilish said:
Being slightly better to what we've got hardly justify spending 80m on him
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So what do you want to do about it? And who would you have signed instead?

Pardon me but I dont see the point of bringing this up, though you do seem rather frustrated and dispondent about United at the moment. Seems a little early in the season for that and considering the number of goals we are banging in.
 
Sweet Square said:
It just seems to be making you miserable(Thats how it comes across to me anyway).

United aren't that bad atm.
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I posted a post, someone picked the negative parts and I had to further explain/discuss that. That's how posts work in a forum. There's a more balanced post up through the ranks.
 
Icemav said:
So what do you want to do about it? And who would you have signed instead?

Pardon me but I dont see the point of bringing this up, though you do seem rather frustrated and dispondent about United at the moment. Seems a little early in the season for that and considering the number of goals we are banging in.
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The short answer to that is that I wouldn't spent 80m on an average CB who lack the characteristics to play for a top club. Maguire can be half decent in a team that defend in numbers and would drop deep. In such system his lack of pace and lack of football intelligence won't be felt that much. That isn't Manchester United unfortunately. Teams tend to defend deep and in numbers against us which leads us to commit as many players forwards as possible. Under such circumstances we need intelligent and pacey CBs who can backtrack quickly and whose got a good idea what is going on around them. To make matters worse we've got a Goalkeeper who doesn't leave his line, a CB (Lindelof) who lack pace and Matic whose as mobile as the Lord Nelson's statue in Trafalgar square. That's hardly a defence that needed another slow CB.

If you ask me, I would have distributed the money to strengthen the defence united as a whole. I would have bought Demiral (whose less experienced but he's faster then Maguire) and Partey in midfield.
 
devilish said:
The short answer to that is that I wouldn't spent 80m on an average CB who lack the characteristics to play for a top club. Maguire can be half decent in a team that defend in numbers and would drop deep. In such system his lack of pace and lack of football intelligence won't be felt that much. That isn't Manchester United unfortunately. Teams tend to defend deep and in numbers against us which leads us to commit as many players forwards as possible. Under such circumstances we need intelligent and pacey CBs who can backtrack quickly and whose got a good idea what is going on around them. To make matters worse we've got a Goalkeeper who doesn't leave his line, a CB (Lindelof) who lack pace and Matic whose as mobile as the Lord Nelson's statue in Trafalgar square. That's hardly a defence that needed another slow CB.

If you ask me, I would have distributed the money to strengthen the defence united as a whole. I would have bought Demiral (whose less experienced but he's faster then Maguire) and Partey in midfield.
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Who's to say that these guy's would have worked out for UTD? Hindsight is wonderful, but harping on a signing which you don't agree with doesn't change anything.

I see your passion for UTD, it's understandable that you are frustrated...we all are with certain things surrounding the club.
Take it easy man, enjoy the festival of football which we have over the x-mas period. I am sure we will have some favorable results.
 
devilish said:
The short answer to that is that I wouldn't spent 80m on an average CB who lack the characteristics to play for a top club. Maguire can be half decent in a team that defend in numbers and would drop deep. In such system his lack of pace and lack of football intelligence won't be felt that much. That isn't Manchester United unfortunately. Teams tend to defend deep and in numbers against us which leads us to commit as many players forwards as possible. Under such circumstances we need intelligent and pacey CBs who can backtrack quickly and whose got a good idea what is going on around them. To make matters worse we've got a Goalkeeper who doesn't leave his line, a CB (Lindelof) who lack pace and Matic whose as mobile as the Lord Nelson's statue in Trafalgar square. That's hardly a defence that needed another slow CB.

If you ask me, I would have distributed the money to strengthen the defence united as a whole. I would have bought Demiral (whose less experienced but he's faster then Maguire) and Partey in midfield.
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I wish he has at least 10% of your so called "football intelligence".

Wonder why all of us here sitting on a couch commenting on football, rather than becoming a professional footballer.
I would never call myself smarter than Maguire on the football pitch.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
when you compare what we spen on Maguire to what we spent on Bailly, Jones and Rojo (wages and transfer fees) - it looks like money well spent.

some people can’t get to grips with how markets work, and the idea of scarcity.

some others just have a blind dislike of certain players for whatever reason. Unfortunately for them, they can’t even see past it when they are playing well.

Maguire has come in and done well. He’s never injured, which has been a massive problem at CB for a decade. Couldn’t care less what he cost, there was no one else available.
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Exactly this. The people that criticise us for spending £80m can never come up with a viable suggestion on who we should have bought instead. As you rightly point out we spent £13 Jones, Rojo, Bailly, Lindelof, Blind and Smalling and not one of them has been anywhere near the level of Maguire.

Give me one so-called overpriced player who comes in and improves the XI over three “bargains” who don’t any day

The bottom line is Maguire would get in ANY team in the PL. That’s why he costs what he costs
 
devilish said:
The short answer to that is that I wouldn't spent 80m on an average CB who lack the characteristics to play for a top club. Maguire can be half decent in a team that defend in numbers and would drop deep. In such system his lack of pace and lack of football intelligence won't be felt that much. That isn't Manchester United unfortunately. Teams tend to defend deep and in numbers against us which leads us to commit as many players forwards as possible. Under such circumstances we need intelligent and pacey CBs who can backtrack quickly and whose got a good idea what is going on around them. To make matters worse we've got a Goalkeeper who doesn't leave his line, a CB (Lindelof) who lack pace and Matic whose as mobile as the Lord Nelson's statue in Trafalgar square. That's hardly a defence that needed another slow CB.

If you ask me, I would have distributed the money to strengthen the defence united as a whole. I would have bought Demiral (whose less experienced but he's faster then Maguire) and Partey in midfield.
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Ok so you dont rate our defensive solidity, would have signed a difference DM and CB in place of Maguire, and think Ole needs a top defensive coach. Quite a few feel the same about the defensive situation, that we are too easy to crack open.

But mine, and several others, point is.... why are you obsessing over this? We are top 3 in the table and areas such as DM CB and RB are being reviewed, and Ole may take decisions on his coaching staff. The season is underway and there is not much to do now except watch the team develop and hopefully do well. Doubt we will pick up much in Jan and in the Summer the post mortem takes place and further recruitment.
 
devilish said:
The short answer to that is that I wouldn't spent 80m on an average CB who lack the characteristics to play for a top club. Maguire can be half decent in a team that defend in numbers and would drop deep. In such system his lack of pace and lack of football intelligence won't be felt that much. That isn't Manchester United unfortunately. Teams tend to defend deep and in numbers against us which leads us to commit as many players forwards as possible. Under such circumstances we need intelligent and pacey CBs who can backtrack quickly and whose got a good idea what is going on around them. To make matters worse we've got a Goalkeeper who doesn't leave his line, a CB (Lindelof) who lack pace and Matic whose as mobile as the Lord Nelson's statue in Trafalgar square. That's hardly a defence that needed another slow CB.

If you ask me, I would have distributed the money to strengthen the defence united as a whole. I would have bought Demiral (whose less experienced but he's faster then Maguire) and Partey in midfield.
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You really should give fifa a go tbh.
 
Lentwood said:
The bottom line is Maguire would get in ANY team in the PL. That’s why he costs what he costs
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Highly debatable, while he's great in the air he's also slow as feck and high line teams can't give themselves that luxury.

I agree he's between the best defenders in the league but definitely not between the best defenders in the world, which is the fee we paid for him.

Anyway while I don't think we should make anymore transfers like him that doesn't mean he's garbage, we overpaid for a very useful player. It seems here you either have to agree that he's the best transfer along Bruno or we got completely scamed, but like most of the time the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
 
devilish said:
You don't spend 130m on two 'above average' players which is exactly how I would describe Maguire.
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Did we pay too much for Maguire ? Yes. But did we really have a choice ? We needed a leader at the back, someone who was good with the ball at his feet, and that was one position where we couldnt afford to gamble on a young, inexperienced player who potentially could be a better player than Maguire in a few years. There simply weren't a lot of good centrebacks out there. Still today, 1.5 years later I struggle to think of one available centreback who would strengthen our defence without a doubt. I see a lot of potentially really good defenders out there, but there are few in their prime.
 
lysglimt said:
Did we pay too much for Maguire ? Yes. But did we really have a choice ? We needed a leader at the back, someone who was good with the ball at his feet, and that was one position where we couldnt afford to gamble on a young, inexperienced player who potentially could be a better player than Maguire in a few years. There simply weren't a lot of good centrebacks out there. Still today, 1.5 years later I struggle to think of one available centreback who would strengthen our defence without a doubt. I see a lot of potentially really good defenders out there, but there are few in their prime.
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For this reason alone it was the right signing. Whether we will have a better player for the 2022 season is another matter entirely.
 
Would there be anything sweeter that could happen to a united fan than Ole leading us to a league title? I for one can’t think of anything.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Would there be anything sweeter that could happen to a united fan than Ole leading us to a league title? I for one can’t think of anything.
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He would win the league, and there would still be people in here calling for him to be sacked....
 
devilish said:
The short answer to that is that I wouldn't spent 80m on an average CB who lack the characteristics to play for a top club. Maguire can be half decent in a team that defend in numbers and would drop deep. In such system his lack of pace and lack of football intelligence won't be felt that much. That isn't Manchester United unfortunately. Teams tend to defend deep and in numbers against us which leads us to commit as many players forwards as possible. Under such circumstances we need intelligent and pacey CBs who can backtrack quickly and whose got a good idea what is going on around them. To make matters worse we've got a Goalkeeper who doesn't leave his line, a CB (Lindelof) who lack pace and Matic whose as mobile as the Lord Nelson's statue in Trafalgar square. That's hardly a defence that needed another slow CB.

If you ask me, I would have distributed the money to strengthen the defence united as a whole. I would have bought Demiral (whose less experienced but he's faster then Maguire) and Partey in midfield.
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Partey, from what we know, wasn't for sale that summer. Why would you think Demiral would come to us and what makes you believe you can spend £80m on both him and Partey?

It seems to me you are making a lot of assumptions based on nothing real.
 
lysglimt said:
Did we pay too much for Maguire ? Yes. But did we really have a choice ? We needed a leader at the back, someone who was good with the ball at his feet, and that was one position where we couldnt afford to gamble on a young, inexperienced player who potentially could be a better player than Maguire in a few years. There simply weren't a lot of good centrebacks out there. Still today, 1.5 years later I struggle to think of one available centreback who would strengthen our defence without a doubt. I see a lot of potentially really good defenders out there, but there are few in their prime.
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He’s got as much leadership as he got pace
 
georgipep said:
Partey, from what we know, wasn't for sale that summer. Why would you think Demiral would come to us and what makes you believe you can spend £80m on both him and Partey?

It seems to me you are making a lot of assumptions based on nothing real.
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Demiral moved to Juve for peanuts that year. Partey had a minimum fee clause
 
Maguire is very solid and very consistent, he probably makes a few too many poor mistakes to be classed as world class.

Hes not worth 80million and never was but we desperately needed a solid dependable CB who was comfortable playing out from the back, there wasnt a huge amount of choice Leicester new that and didnt need to sell for financial reasons so we got screwed, but does anyone actually care? I mean is it your money? Does it really affect you how much the club spunk on players?

The other thing I never understand with the maguire hating is just how many we concede where you can actually look and go 'maguire was at fault there' its not many at all.
 
devilish said:
You don't spend 130m on two 'above average' players which is exactly how I would describe Maguire.
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Think you underestimate Maquire. He’s first choice on the national team, even captain sometimes. He is a high performer, but not among top 5 CB’s in the world like VVD.

After all he is an very important player for United and would have been so for most teams, so I have to say the price we paid wasn’t to bad (at that time). It wasn’t good either.

We have to remember Napoli wanted 90m£ for Kalidou Koulibaly.
 
Lentwood said:
Exactly this. The people that criticise us for spending £80m can never come up with a viable suggestion on who we should have bought instead. As you rightly point out we spent £13 Jones, Rojo, Bailly, Lindelof, Blind and Smalling and not one of them has been anywhere near the level of Maguire.

Give me one so-called overpriced player who comes in and improves the XI over three “bargains” who don’t any day

The bottom line is Maguire would get in ANY team in the PL. That’s why he costs what he costs
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Well put my friend. Criticism of Maguire is laughable while lindelof is still a starting CB, our friend keeps going on about pace, mate, no 1 rule of an effective CB is the ability to head a ball. Bye bye Victor
 
BR7 said:
Well put my friend. Criticism of Maguire is laughable while lindelof is still a starting CB, our friend keeps going on about pace, mate, no 1 rule of an effective CB is the ability to head a ball. Bye bye Victor
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Ah. You see, the point is that we should’ve signed a CB with bags of pace, great in the air, physically dominant, good with the ball, doesn’t make rash decisions, second to none positional sense, and a leader, for cheap! They’re ten a penny.
 
devilish said:
Demiral moved to Juve for peanuts that year. Partey had a minimum fee clause
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So you think rather then sign an experienced solid CB who was a full international and had PL experience, we should of signed an inexperienced CB who had made what 20 first team appearances in serie A for sassulou? Behave.
 
devilish said:
Demiral moved to Juve for peanuts that year. Partey had a minimum fee clause
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I agree on Partey's clause but that doesn't mean he'd like to move (he might do). As for Demiral, yeah, £16m is nothing in comparison but he is also 22 and definitely not someone who you'd expect to lead the defence. I can't imagine how any manager would buy a then-21 year old defender and expect them to be the cornerstone of our defence.

Also, Maguire's impact on us was immediate and profound. Our defensive record improved massively with him and AWB in the side. We also finally started building from the back in a meaningful manner. I, personally, have absolutely no problem with his transfer. The fee was high but that was the price we had to pay to get proven quality CB. People on here whined that we took months to complete the transfer and ended up paying the same amount. Well, that's the point, isn't it? We tried to get it down but Leicester wouldn't budge.
 
Longshanks said:
So you think rather then sign an experienced solid CB who was a full international and had PL experience, we should of signed an inexperienced CB who had made what 20 first team appearances in serie A for sassulou? Behave.
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It would have been a genius signing. Juve pulled the trigger. Everyone else in world football missed out apparently. For every one of these successful signings (so far) there are far more busts.

Really what Devilish should be doing is suggesting we poach some of Juve's scouting team. Failing that send in his CV to Ed.
 
All this thread achieves is to highlight the ferocity and stubbornness of the imbecilic morons that want Ole out. You have several posts from sane posters trying to reason with them and then the Gammons wade in with their rabid diatribe and then rinse and repeat with nothing actually being achieved. Why don’t you go and support Liverpool or better still vacate football if you can’t enjoy it? Would make life better for the rest of us.

Cumstains.
 
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