The “Ole In” Brigade

Do you get any enjoyment whatsoever from Man Utd @devilish?

There’s a difference between posters getting their “PL Winners 2021” tattoo’s done and people just being happy that we’re actually not already 15pts behind the leaders like we have been in recent seasons at Christmas
 
Small time to discuss a league challenge, when challenging for the top at xmas time? I feel sorry for people who can't even allow themselves to enjoy the football when we are playing fairly well. Must be such a miserable existence.

Exactly. Well put.

what I see is a team developing, and getting better, with some really exciting players.

we are at the right end of the table. We are inconsistent, but then 19 clubs in the league are either inconsistent or shit, so it’s a silly stick to get beaten with.

no matter where we finish, there is progress, and it’s we are in the best position we have been in since Fergie left.

am enjoying this, why wouldn’t you?

my standards haven’t dropped, and I’m not a “top red”.
 
Do you get any enjoyment whatsoever from Man Utd @devilish?

There’s a difference between posters getting their “PL Winners 2021” tattoo’s done and people just being happy that we’re actually not already 15pts behind the leaders like we have been in recent seasons at Christmas
Can you not enjoy the team and football without thinking we are in the title race? Or is it a prerequisite?
 
1 Liverpool 14, +20, 40

2 Leicester 14, +24, 32

3 Manchester City 14, +23, 29

4 Chelsea 14, +8, 26

5 Tottenham 14, +3, 20

6 Wolverhampton Wanderers 14, +2, 20

7 Sheffield United 14, +4, 19

8 Arsenal 14, -1, 19

9 Manchester United 14, +4, 18


This was the table after 14 games last year. We are 8 points better off with a game in hand.

#oleout
 
Please read again. I said shit defence, not shit team. Midfield and forward line are relatively fine. The problem lie in the defence unit which is incredibly error prone even when it gets all the protection it can get. Better coaching and better tactics can help, however they won't make Maguire/Lindelof fast (or intelligent) or push DDG to leave the comfort of his goal line. I still can't figure it out how on earth did we spent 80m on such average CB. He's got no pace, no leadership, little positioning and he constantly need to be nannied. Prime Wes, Johnsen, Bruce and Evans were better then him let alone Rio, Vidic, Pally and Stam.

I agree with this. All good teams and title winners are built from the back, and while our spirit and offence is promising & exciting, there is no way we can continue to come from behind every game. Let's hope the Leeds game sets a precedence for starting games better, but it is evident that our defence is still porous/error prone with each opposition attack or set piece.

I was thinking about this too - despite spending so much on new defenders, has our defence regressed or progressed? Even our previous supposed second stringers such as Wes Brown, Johnny Evans etc seem to inspire more confidence. Even the Blind - Smalling partnership seems more effective. Our full backs have errors in them too, and keep over tucking in for some reason.

If we can somehow be in contention this season it would be an achievement. Ole has done well to move us in the right direction despite his lack of high level credentials and other problems in the club.

It's good to be positive, whilst level headed amidst polarities with each short term run of results. I think it's premature and unnecessary pressure to even mention any thoughts of the title at this stage unless there are some concrete plans to sign top class additions in Jan, plus some radical uptick in defensive organisation. It is however more enjoyable to watch out team these days, and I will savour it over the festive period.
 
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I think 4th is the best we can get given our circumstances (shit defence, unexperienced manager + coaching staff etc). Irrespective of that it's still 14 games in the league. There plenty of games coming through and every man and his dog knows that we're ridiculously flawed. Luck will carry us so far.

However don't let me stop you celebrating the league title in Christmas mate. I didn't stop Liverpool fans during the Houllier/Benitez doing that, let alone fellow fans.

Do you ever stop to consider what kind of energy you bring into a room? Geniune question.
 
Supporting a football team is all about the journey. If you can't enjoy the journey then you don't deserve to enjoy the destination.
 
Please read again. I said shit defence, not shit team. Midfield and forward line are relatively fine. The problem lie in the defence unit which is incredibly error prone even when it gets all the protection it can get. Better coaching and better tactics can help, however they won't make Maguire/Lindelof fast (or intelligent) or push DDG to leave the comfort of his goal line. I still can't figure it out how on earth did we spent 80m on such average CB. He's got no pace, no leadership, little positioning and he constantly need to be nannied. Prime Wes, Johnsen, Bruce and Evans were better then him let alone Rio, Vidic, Pally and Stam.
So do you think a defense with Fuch, Huth, Morgan, and Simpson was better? They were conceding 36 goals, the same record that we had last season.
 
Can you not enjoy the team and football without thinking we are in the title race? Or is it a prerequisite?

What’s that got to do with what I posted? If you look at the 6/7 posts above mine, there’s a number of similar posts from a regular forum user whingeing about people saying we’re in a title race.

I’m asking what enjoyment do you get out of the game if you moan when the clubs not doing well and you also moan when we’ve just taken 16/18pts?
 
Supporting a football team is all about the journey. If you can't enjoy the journey then you don't deserve to enjoy the destination.

This is 100% accurate. I am lucky enough to have seen Utd win every trophy imaginable, very often in the stadium.

I can say that the ups and downs are far more exciting and intense than the moment of actually “winning”. Case in point, my favourite title was the year Ronaldo scored the last minute solo goal winner against Fulham, we came from 0-2 down in the second half to win 4-2 at Goodison and the last minute winner from O’Shea in-front of the Kop. I couldn’t tell you who we beat on the final day or who came 2nd that year but I remember all those moments very clearly
 
Well let's see.

I am not completely Ole out. I've said it many times that I'd wish the guy got proper help. That doesn't mean a blank cheque to buy every British talent he sets his eye upon but more in terms of experienced coaches, a top DOF, a technical director etc. When you consider our structure (inexperienced CEO, inexperienced head of recruitment, inexperienced manager, inexperienced coaches etc), we're lucky we're not lingering in the bottom half of the EPL table. That's the sort of progress I'd like to see this season and not this rollercoaster.

Having said that there's plenty of games that will need to be played and that defence is diabolical.
You've listed all the things that Solskjaer is lacking by way of support and then attributed our league position to luck rather than giving him any credit for it. This is what I don't understand. If you think we should be bottom half of the table based on our set up surely the manager is doing a great job in your eyes?
 
We're just 13-14 games in the league and we're already talking about winning the title. That despite having our arse handled to us by tiny Istanbul whatever and Leipzig. We really became small time.

I am sticking to facts mate ie the CL. We won't be in it due to defeats against 2 clubs with o e 10th of our budget. Now as said before. If you wish to celebrate the league title 13 games into the league then be my guest. I can't see us winning the league with that leaky defence (that Ole spent 145m on btw).aybe the EPL should issue a 3rd by Christmas trophy. God only knows how Ole needs a trophy

Not that I disagree with your point about us not being good enough challenging for the league, but using the CL as some kind of proof is meaningless in this comparison. In 2011/12 we came third and crashed into the EL in a group that had Benfica, Basle and Otelul Galati.
 
Not that I disagree with your point about us not being good enough challenging for the league, but using the CL as some kind of proof is meaningless in this comparison. In 2011/12 we came third and crashed into the EL in a group that had Benfica, Basle and Otelul Galati.

for gods sakes man, don't use facts! Gut feeling only please.
 
You've listed all the things that Solskjaer is lacking by way of support and then attributed our league position to luck rather than giving him any credit for it. This is what I don't understand. If you think we should be bottom half of the table based on our set up surely the manager is doing a great job in your eyes?

the Guy wouldn’t be happy even if we went and won the league (not that I think we will). We have shown a great deal of progress that I personally am very happy to see.
 
What's the point of having both this and would you sack or keep Ole thread at the top of the forum? They are essentially the same thing, those in favour of Ole battling those against him.
 
I am sticking to facts mate ie the CL. We won't be in it due to defeats against 2 clubs with o e 10th of our budget. Now as said before. If you wish to celebrate the league title 13 games into the league then be my guest. I can't see us winning the league with that leaky defence (that Ole spent 145m on btw).aybe the EPL should issue a 3rd by Christmas trophy. God only knows how Ole needs a trophy

All true but arent you getting carried away with your negativity?

After 13 games (1/3rd of our season) we are right up there, and I really think the next 4 games will tell us if we can do it or not.

Leicester (currently 2nd), Wolves (our bogey team), Villa (having a brilliant season) and Liverpool (champions elect). Do you think we will be in a title race if we get 10 points out of 12 here?

We may not, and I am well aware of that but we may (even if it's a 10% chance according to you). That's enough to make me look forward to what's coming. Here is hoping that this team has matured into delivering when needed.
 
It seemed that I kicked a proper hornet nest here so I apologise for not answering to each and every post.

Its undeniable that there's some positives to be taken since Ole became manager. Ole has handled Greenwood magnificently and he got rid of some deadwood. I believe his greatest achievement was of stabilising the dressing room. The dressing room has costed Mourinho, LVG and Moyes career. So kudos for Ole for keeping this players at his side despite taking some tough decisions against popular players (ex Pogba and JLingz)

We're still crap in the transfer market . With the exception of Bruno whose been amazing and is the reason why Ole is still in the job our transfers were meah at best. Leicester robbed us on Maguire, Palace probably did the same with AWB, we extended Ighalo's contract out of Lulz, Telles seem to be a defensive liability (early days though) and Ole has yet to understand VDB and Cavani can fit in the system. On a positive note we're buying for the future or at least we're buying players with a decent resale value. Apart from Maguire of course whose probably worth 30m maybe 40m at best. That's also a positive.

Apart from that I can't see too many positives. Our defence keep leaking goals despite spending 145m in it. Ole seem to yet grasp what VDB can do to this team which is a shame. We've became bottlers with 3 semi finals lost and a CL qualification were we snatched a defeat from the jaws of victory against 2 teams with 1/10 of our budget. Sure we're in 3rd place. However we've only played 13 games. To put things into perspective we're as far from Liverpool at 1st place as we're far from West Ham at 10th.

I remember sharing a pint with a Liverpool fan a few decades ago. He was talking about how Liverpool are on the rise, how United will struggle in long term without king Eric and how its only a matter of time before Liverpool could go toe to toe against us. I couldn't help but laugh at it. TBF he wasn't completely deluded. Liverpool of Incey time were quite an exciting side. They had James, Friedel, Carragher, Ince (one of the few DMs who could go toe to toe with Keane), Rednapp, Mcmanaman, Berger, Fowler and Owen. There was also rumours of a kid from their youth academy who could one day be as good if not better then our own Paul Scholes (he wasn't but he did carve a half decent career for himself). However I wasn't worried to the least. Similar to our current side they had huge flaws as well both in terms of tactics and their team which they probably would never sort because of sentimentalism. It would take Liverpool decades to shed that legacy away and till then they weren't a team I was too worried about.

I genuinely like to be proven wrong however I can't see us win the EPL title with a defence that leaks goals left right and centre and I can't put my trust into a manager who spent 145m in that defence to start with. On top of that I think that United are too stuck in our ways to make the next step. I am not excluding that Ole can't become a decent manager. However in my books true progression would mean surrounding him with experienced people to help him out. That mean a top quality DOF, experienced coaches (especially defence wise) and a head of recruitment.

Now let's the witch hunt begins.
 
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Can’t we just enjoy that we right now are in the title race. That’s a fact. If it will last is another question. I think it’s a bonus as long as we can join the fight, but I suppose no one expect us to beat Liverpool in the end.
 
What's the point of having both this and would you sack or keep Ole thread at the top of the forum? They are essentially the same thing, those in favour of Ole battling those against him.

The team is doing ok, we seem to be progressing, we are top 3 in the table. We are inconsistent. We score a lot of goals. We are recruiting fairly sensibly. Individual players are improving. If this stops and the performances nose dive, and Ole loses the dressing room and confidence of the Management then he goes. Its that simple.

The big questions the Ole Out brigade need to answer is: when is Ole sacked? Who replaces him?

Most seem to want to do this immediately and in sort of in a vacuum, though I suppose there is Poch.

There is no way that it should happen in this moment, though if we lose the next 10 games it probably should. The major thing is, can Ole take the next step and bring consistency in the league and win when we need too, and keep developing us tactically. This is a game by game challenge. He answered a big question mark with the last 2 victories.... the crunch games we needed win when our rivals spluttered, guaranteed loss for us yet we didn't. Definite progress. Now we go again.

In essence though we should back the manager unless our results are appalling in context (i.e. where we can logically expect to be at this point in time), or he embarrasses the club, or blows up the dressing room. If he needs to go it will be very apparent and that is not the case with OGS at the moment. So in summary the Ole Out brigade are wasting their time and energy instead of supporting the good and monitoring the bad.
 
What's the point of having both this and would you sack or keep Ole thread at the top of the forum? They are essentially the same thing, those in favour of Ole battling those against him.

I think many (like me) have put the sack Ole thread on ignore a long time ago since it was always on top all the time.
Unless it's the same people posting in both threads I would assume this thread have more people in favor of rallying around the manager.
 
It seemed that I kicked a proper hornet nest here so I apologise for not answering to each and every post.

Its undeniable that there's some positives to be taken since Ole became manager. Ole has handled Greenwood magnificently and he got rid of some deadwood. I believe his greatest achievement was of stabilising the dressing room. The dressing room has costed Mourinho, LVG and Moyes career. So kudos for Ole for keeping this players at his side despite taking some tough decisions against popular players (ex Pogba and JLingz)

We're still crap in the transfer market . With the exception of Bruno whose been amazing and is the reason why Ole is still in the job our transfers were meah at best. Leicester robbed us on Maguire, Palace probably did the same with AWB, we extended Ighalo's contract out of Lulz, Telles seem to be a defensive liability (early days though) and Ole has yet to understand VDB and Cavani can fit in the system. On a positive note we're buying for the future or at least we're buying players with a decent resale value. Apart from Maguire of course whose probably worth 30m maybe 40m at best. That's also a positive.

Apart from that I can't see too many positives. Our defence keep leaking goals despite spending 145m in it. Ole seem to yet grasp what VDB can do to this team which is a shame. We've became bottlers with 3 semi finals lost and a CL qualification were we snatched a defeat from the jaws of victory against 2 teams with 1/10 of our budget. Sure we're in 3rd place. However we've only played 13 games. To put things into perspective we're as far from Liverpool at 1st place as we're far from West Ham at 10th.

I remember sharing a pint with a Liverpool fan a few decades ago. He was talking about how Liverpool are on the rise, how United will struggle in long term without king Eric and how its only a matter of time before Liverpool could go toe to toe against us. I couldn't help but laugh at it. TBF he wasn't completely deluded. Liverpool of Incey time were quite an exciting side. They had James, Friedel, Carragher, Ince (one of the few DMs who could go toe to toe with Keane), Rednapp, Mcmanaman, Berger, Fowler and Owen. There was also rumours of a kid from their youth academy who could one day be as good if not better then our own Paul Scholes (he wasn't but he did carve a half decent career for himself). However I wasn't worried to the least. Similar to our current side they had huge flaws as well both in terms of tactics and their team which they probably would never sort because of sentimentalism. It would take Liverpool decades to shed that legacy away and till then they weren't a team I was too worried about.

I genuinely like to be proven wrong however I can't see us win the EPL title with a defence that leaks goals left right and centre and I can't put my trust into a manager who spent 145m in that defence to start with. On top of that I think that United are too stuck in our ways to make the next step. I am not excluding that Ole can't become a decent manager. However in my books true progression would mean surrounding him with experienced people to help him out. That mean a top quality DOF, experienced coaches (especially defence wise) and a head of recruitment.

Now let's the witch hunt begins.

Some of these things are outside of Ole's control, except perhaps appointing additional coaches. He seems to be doing ok in spite of this so all points in his favor. What you are posing is really a question for Woodward and co. though as an outsider looking in there seems to be a better balance between Ole and Woodward&co than with previous managers. Makes sense as Ole knows the club intimately.

Anyway point being is that the risk of changing manager right now far outweigh the rewards because of the points you make at the end. Ole is playing the game well, and most other managers might not.

You are correct that our defensive jitters will for the time being most likely preclude us from major honors, but its good to have an easily identifiable area to fix. We are becoming lethal in transition, and improved at controlling play, and individually players are noticeably improving. So if Ole sorts out defense then we should be looking very handy. I personally would spend more time encouraging this fix than believing a potential complete overhaul with an unnamed future manager will be a better alternative.
 
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It seemed that I kicked a proper hornet nest here so I apologise for not answering to each and every post.

Its undeniable that there's some positives to be taken since Ole became manager. Ole has handled Greenwood magnificently and he got rid of some deadwood. I believe his greatest achievement was of stabilising the dressing room. The dressing room has costed Mourinho, LVG and Moyes career. So kudos for Ole for keeping this players at his side despite taking some tough decisions against popular players (ex Pogba and JLingz)

We're still crap in the transfer market . With the exception of Bruno whose been amazing and is the reason why Ole is still in the job our transfers were meah at best. Leicester robbed us on Maguire, Palace probably did the same with AWB, we extended Ighalo's contract out of Lulz, Telles seem to be a defensive liability (early days though) and Ole has yet to understand VDB and Cavani can fit in the system. On a positive note we're buying for the future or at least we're buying players with a decent resale value. Apart from Maguire of course whose probably worth 30m maybe 40m at best. That's also a positive.

Apart from that I can't see too many positives. Our defence keep leaking goals despite spending 145m in it. Ole seem to yet grasp what VDB can do to this team which is a shame. We've became bottlers with 3 semi finals lost and a CL qualification were we snatched a defeat from the jaws of victory against 2 teams with 1/10 of our budget. Sure we're in 3rd place. However we've only played 13 games. To put things into perspective we're as far from Liverpool at 1st place as we're far from West Ham at 10th.

I remember sharing a pint with a Liverpool fan a few decades ago. He was talking about how Liverpool are on the rise, how United will struggle in long term without king Eric and how its only a matter of time before Liverpool could go toe to toe against us. I couldn't help but laugh at it. TBF he wasn't completely deluded. Liverpool of Incey time were quite an exciting side. They had James, Friedel, Carragher, Ince (one of the few DMs who could go toe to toe with Keane), Rednapp, Mcmanaman, Berger, Fowler and Owen. There was also rumours of a kid from their youth academy who could one day be as good if not better then our own Paul Scholes (he wasn't but he did carve a half decent career for himself). However I wasn't worried to the least. Similar to our current side they had huge flaws as well both in terms of tactics and their team which they probably would never sort because of sentimentalism. It would take Liverpool decades to shed that legacy away and till then they weren't a team I was too worried about.

I genuinely like to be proven wrong however I can't see us win the EPL title with a defence that leaks goals left right and centre and I can't put my trust into a manager who spent 145m in that defence to start with. On top of that I think that United are too stuck in our ways to make the next step. I am not excluding that Ole can't become a decent manager. However in my books true progression would mean surrounding him with experienced people to help him out. That mean a top quality DOF, experienced coaches (especially defence wise) and a head of recruitment.

Now let's the witch hunt begins.

I don't particularly think there's anything wrong with this viewpoint, you've not written it in an inflammatory manner and so people should respond to you accordingly.

Personally I think it's undeniable that we are lucky to be where we are but we are well positioned & the hope is we don't have a nosedive in form like we've seen before. It's only a third or so through the season but I look at the PL and I see a handful, at most, of teams I think can beat us (Pool, City, Chelsea, Spurs, Leicester maybe) as long as we turn up and we don't see brainfarts like Pogba giving away the penalty versus Arsenal and Martial's red versus Spurs because the squad quality we have is very good in pretty much every position. That's where I disagree with you, I think Maguire (whilst being overpriced and not really suiting our style) is still a solid, if unspectacular, CB and AWB is still a top defensive RB (which despite lots of fans slating him is key because his role is important for covering Lindelof), James will become more important to the team as well in my opinion. Bruno is Bruno and without him I dread to think where we'd be.

I don't think Ole is some kind of tactical mastermind and I think his decisions in big games have been very hit and miss but, as you say, getting players happy and uniting the dressing room is a great achievement. I agree re coaches though (which you said in a previous post) I think that's where the danger lies for us because to go from competing in the top four, which we have generally been in or around since SAF, to winning the PL is a big step.
 
what’s the % of British players he’s bought? How many foreign players has he bought since the last British player?

you need to change the record.

I would be celebrating if we signed Rice, Grealish and Calvert-Lewin :) But I accept that each one of them will be too expensive
 
Some of these things are outside of Ole's control, except perhaps appointing additional coaches. He seems to be doing ok in spite of this so all points in his favor. What you are posing is really a question for Woodward and co. though as an outsider looking in there seems to be a better balance between Ole and Woodward&co than with previous managers. Makes sense as Ole knows the club intimately.

Anyway point being is that the risk of changing manager right now far outweigh the rewards because of the points you make at the end. Ole is playing the game well, and most other managers might not.

You are correct that our defensive jitters will for the time being most likely preclude us from major honors, but its good to have an easily identifiable area to fix. We are becoming lethal in transition, and improved at controlling play, and individually players are noticeably improving. So if Ole sorts out defense then we should be looking very handy. I personally would spend more time encouraging this fix than believing a potential complete overhaul with an unnamed future manager will be a better alternative.

Is it? Would anyone really sack him if Ole admitted that he needs an experienced defensive coach, a better tactical coach + he is more comfortable if we had a top DOF on board? I very much doubt it. I admit that I am more Ole out then Ole in but such a thing would surely make me rethink my steps. It would mean to me that Ole has embraced his limits and is ready to learn from his AND the club's mistakes.

As said I am the first to admit were Ole did well. There's no chance in hell that the guy is anywhere near to Sir Alex in terms of potential but I see plenty of Allegri in him. Similar to Allegri he's a great man manager, whose tactically weak (Dolcetti cares for that stuff), he relied heavily on a DOF to make good signings for him + he loves to tinker with the first team (Ole is less of a tinker then Allegri is and thank god for that). Therefore Ole can make it work IF he surrounds himself with the right people.

So I'd said my fill. Call me whatever you want but I will only be truly excited when some real progression is made and that real progression can be made when the right people are hired to do the job. If that happens under Ole's watch then fine. If not, well, tough shit. Let's hope the next manager have the IQ to push for those changes. We need them.
 
We're just 13-14 games in the league and we're already talking about winning the title. That despite having our arse handled to us by tiny Istanbul whatever and Leipzig. We really became small time.

@meamth was spot on. If people are discussing about challenging top 4 then people like you will moan about lowering the standard. I personally don't consider us title contender right now, not until we can beat Liverpool on 17th January and even if we beat them doesn't mean we will be the favourite to win it. But everyone have their own view about it, you disagree is fine so just leave it like that, there is no point to keep moaning about it. I can't see any reason to moan to people who want to lift up their standard, after all this is Manchester United.
 
Lampard was talking about Olivier Giroud by the way.
 
Is it? Would anyone really sack him if Ole admitted that he needs an experienced defensive coach, a better tactical coach + he is more comfortable if we had a top DOF on board? I very much doubt it. I admit that I am more Ole out then Ole in but such a thing would surely make me rethink my steps. It would mean to me that Ole has embraced his limits and is ready to learn from his AND the club's mistakes.

As said I am the first to admit were Ole did well. There's no chance in hell that the guy is anywhere near to Sir Alex in terms of potential but I see plenty of Allegri in him. Similar to Allegri he's a great man manager, whose tactically weak (Dolcetti cares for that stuff), he relied heavily on a DOF to make good signings for him + he loves to tinker with the first team (Ole is less of a tinker then Allegri is and thank god for that). Therefore Ole can make it work IF he surrounds himself with the right people.

So I'd said my fill. Call me whatever you want but I will only be truly excited when some real progression is made and that real progression can be made when the right people are hired to do the job. If that happens under Ole's watch then fine. If not, well, tough shit. Let's hope the next manager have the IQ to push for those changes. We need them.


Ole doesn't throw his players under the bus, so he's unlikely to do anything different with his coaching staff. He's their boss, if he openly said he wanted someone else it wouldn't exactly make them perform their jobs better.

We don't know what happens behind the scenes. Maybe the team is more competent than it looks from the outside. We'll only know when/if we hire new coaches, like when Ole bigged up players in the media who were sold shortly after. The only news recently was that Mark Dempsey, one of Ole's coaches that he met as a youth coach in United, and that Ole brought with him to Molde and Cardiff as well, has recently changed his responsibilities from working with the first team to instead work with our Academy.
We've also hired another 3-4 coaches for our various youth teams that start working early next year.

This opens up room to bring in another first-team coach between now and the summer. It's also rumored that Phelan might move on.
It's probably not super easy to hire world class coaches either, who also needs to be the right cultural fit with the entire team.

I'm certain that Ole is evaluating options for coaches all the time. But we won't really know about it until people are hired.
 
What’s that got to do with what I posted? If you look at the 6/7 posts above mine, there’s a number of similar posts from a regular forum user whingeing about people saying we’re in a title race.

I’m asking what enjoyment do you get out of the game if you moan when the clubs not doing well and you also moan when we’ve just taken 16/18pts?
Apologies, I seem to have missed the wider context then. I am all against moaning at any times. It solves nothing at all. And you don't need to be in a title race or winning trophies every week to be able to enjoy a game, season or a team.
 
I’m sick of the PE teacher nickname that he’s been branded .
last season he came 3rd and this season who knows , yes he could do better in the cup competitions but that will come.
Oles at the wheel!
 
Is it? Would anyone really sack him if Ole admitted that he needs an experienced defensive coach, a better tactical coach + he is more comfortable if we had a top DOF on board? I very much doubt it. I admit that I am more Ole out then Ole in but such a thing would surely make me rethink my steps. It would mean to me that Ole has embraced his limits and is ready to learn from his AND the club's mistakes.

As said I am the first to admit were Ole did well. There's no chance in hell that the guy is anywhere near to Sir Alex in terms of potential but I see plenty of Allegri in him. Similar to Allegri he's a great man manager, whose tactically weak (Dolcetti cares for that stuff), he relied heavily on a DOF to make good signings for him + he loves to tinker with the first team (Ole is less of a tinker then Allegri is and thank god for that). Therefore Ole can make it work IF he surrounds himself with the right people.

So I'd said my fill. Call me whatever you want but I will only be truly excited when some real progression is made and that real progression can be made when the right people are hired to do the job. If that happens under Ole's watch then fine. If not, well, tough shit. Let's hope the next manager have the IQ to push for those changes. We need them.

I won't call you anything and I get the frustration at the set up of the club, though I am not sure a willful manager is the way to resolve it realistically. Regarding what may be in Ole's control I have often said he could perhaps do with bringing in some very experienced coaching as Sir Alex did from time to time. If he stagnates or regresses then Ole is gone that is for sure, and if bringing in new coaches is part of the sides progression then so be it. A good proportion of his fate and success as United manager is in his hands. So far this season in the league he is outperforming Pep, Lampard, Arteta and Jose. I hope it continues and it is shown to be no more than a purple patch.
 
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Flogging the manager had become itself too much of a fan obsession in the game and it certainly has become an obsession on the caf. Surely there has to be a place for an honest assessment of a manager’s performance without having to endure repeated calls for his sacking, which seems to spike every time we drop points.

It’s absolutely ridiculous to continue calling for Ole’s sacking no matter how we perform, when we can more reasonably assess what’s going right and wrong, which still gives us plenty of fodder for debate.
 
Ole doesn't throw his players under the bus, so he's unlikely to do anything different with his coaching staff. He's their boss, if he openly said he wanted someone else it wouldn't exactly make them perform their jobs better.

We don't know what happens behind the scenes. Maybe the team is more competent than it looks from the outside. We'll only know when/if we hire new coaches, like when Ole bigged up players in the media who were sold shortly after. The only news recently was that Mark Dempsey, one of Ole's coaches that he met as a youth coach in United, and that Ole brought with him to Molde and Cardiff as well, has recently changed his responsibilities from working with the first team to instead work with our Academy.
We've also hired another 3-4 coaches for our various youth teams that start working early next year.

This opens up room to bring in another first-team coach between now and the summer. It's also rumored that Phelan might move on.
It's probably not super easy to hire world class coaches either, who also needs to be the right cultural fit with the entire team.

I'm certain that Ole is evaluating options for coaches all the time. But we won't really know about it until people are hired.

Inexperienced managers need experienced people around them especially at a juggernaut club like United whose board of director happens to be filled with bankers not football people. It's not as if he can walk in Woodward's office and ask for football advice. There's nothing to be ashamed off in asking for help either. Sir Alex himself surrounded with the best assistants and coaching staff he could get his hands off, people like Mclaren, Queroz, Rene and Smith. Most were half decent managers in their own right. I dare to say that's the reason Sir Alex's career lasted so long. TBF the manager's job is a lonely and high stressful job, so having a pack of loyal yes men is quite tempting. However its very hard for a manager to reinvent his game if he surround himself with people with his same mentality.

I also understand that certain changes I am asking for (ex DOF) go beyond the manager's premise. However I do believe that Ole can push for such changes. First of all, even the staunchest Ole out admits that he loves the club. Thus he can at least push the club in that direction if he want to. Secondly if Ole leaks the need of United signing a DOF or/and head of recruitment then every single supporter whose not an idiot would rally behind him. That include most Ole outers as well. Finally the Glazers might not understand football but they do understand ££££. They probably understand that having a big chunk of that 1Billion in transfer money thrown in the bin + 3 managers sacked is not great. Honestly if we add a top DOF and maybe bring someone like Faria back then I'd consider this more of a progression then our current 3rd place.
 
With the squad he has now, for people who say Ole should be replaced, where should he be right now that would make you say the opposite?

I mean up to this point in the season?
More points? More wins? Higher position?

And who would do better? Eg for those who want Poch in, where day think we would be compared to where we are now?

I have some criticisms at times of Ole, but then I had a few of Fergie (oops) but ultimately he brought us great success
 
Inexperienced managers need experienced people around them especially at a juggernaut club like United whose board of director happens to be filled with bankers not football people. It's not as if he can walk in Woodward's office and ask for football advice. There's nothing to be ashamed off in asking for help either. Sir Alex himself surrounded with the best assistants and coaching staff he could get his hands off, people like Mclaren, Queroz, Rene and Smith. Most were half decent managers in their own right. I dare to say that's the reason Sir Alex's career lasted so long. TBF the manager's job is a lonely and high stressful job, so having a pack of loyal yes men is quite tempting. However its very hard for a manager to reinvent his game if he surround himself with people with his same mentality.

I also understand that certain changes I am asking for (ex DOF) go beyond the manager's premise. However I do believe that Ole can push for such changes. First of all, even the staunchest Ole out admits that he loves the club. Thus he can at least push the club in that direction if he want to. Secondly if Ole leaks the need of United signing a DOF or/and head of recruitment then every single supporter whose not an idiot would rally behind him. That include most Ole outers as well. Finally the Glazers might not understand football but they do understand ££££. They probably understand that having a big chunk of that 1Billion in transfer money thrown in the bin + 3 managers sacked is not great. Honestly if we add a top DOF and maybe bring someone like Faria back then I'd consider this more of a progression then our current 3rd place.


I don't think you fully read what I wrote, I said that even if Ole wants different coaches, we will not know about it until they are hired. It very well might be that Ole wants to change out some staff, but he will speak positively about them while they are here, just like he does with players.
I also wouldn't mind if we refreshed the coaching staff a bit, but it's not like I think we will improve by just hiring some foreign name. We simply don't know what goes on during training.
But it does look like some changes have been made recently that allows room in the coaching team to bring in another person if they can find the right one.

In regards to a DOF, someone is already leaking that it seems, at times. Though, to be honest, I think most managers do not want a DOF, as that would be a potential conflict if they disagree. Hiring a DOF is a strategy from the club/board if they don't feel the manager(s) can handle it and potentially want to set it up so managers can be more easily replaced with less concern.

I can only guess what Ole wants, but if I was in his shoes the only changes I'd want in that department is maybe push for swapping the Chief Negotiator if it is true that we are struggling to land deals. And I'm not sure that we are. I don't necessarily call not landing Sancho a failure if Dortmund were not willing to lower their demands at all. The "saga" part about it all summer I believe was mostly created by the media to have something to write about.
 
It seemed that I kicked a proper hornet nest here so I apologise for not answering to each and every post.

Its undeniable that there's some positives to be taken since Ole became manager. Ole has handled Greenwood magnificently and he got rid of some deadwood. I believe his greatest achievement was of stabilising the dressing room. The dressing room has costed Mourinho, LVG and Moyes career. So kudos for Ole for keeping this players at his side despite taking some tough decisions against popular players (ex Pogba and JLingz)

We're still crap in the transfer market . With the exception of Bruno whose been amazing and is the reason why Ole is still in the job our transfers were meah at best. Leicester robbed us on Maguire, Palace probably did the same with AWB, we extended Ighalo's contract out of Lulz, Telles seem to be a defensive liability (early days though) and Ole has yet to understand VDB and Cavani can fit in the system. On a positive note we're buying for the future or at least we're buying players with a decent resale value. Apart from Maguire of course whose probably worth 30m maybe 40m at best. That's also a positive.

Apart from that I can't see too many positives. Our defence keep leaking goals despite spending 145m in it. Ole seem to yet grasp what VDB can do to this team which is a shame. We've became bottlers with 3 semi finals lost and a CL qualification were we snatched a defeat from the jaws of victory against 2 teams with 1/10 of our budget. Sure we're in 3rd place. However we've only played 13 games. To put things into perspective we're as far from Liverpool at 1st place as we're far from West Ham at 10th.

I remember sharing a pint with a Liverpool fan a few decades ago. He was talking about how Liverpool are on the rise, how United will struggle in long term without king Eric and how its only a matter of time before Liverpool could go toe to toe against us. I couldn't help but laugh at it. TBF he wasn't completely deluded. Liverpool of Incey time were quite an exciting side. They had James, Friedel, Carragher, Ince (one of the few DMs who could go toe to toe with Keane), Rednapp, Mcmanaman, Berger, Fowler and Owen. There was also rumours of a kid from their youth academy who could one day be as good if not better then our own Paul Scholes (he wasn't but he did carve a half decent career for himself). However I wasn't worried to the least. Similar to our current side they had huge flaws as well both in terms of tactics and their team which they probably would never sort because of sentimentalism. It would take Liverpool decades to shed that legacy away and till then they weren't a team I was too worried about.

I genuinely like to be proven wrong however I can't see us win the EPL title with a defence that leaks goals left right and centre and I can't put my trust into a manager who spent 145m in that defence to start with. On top of that I think that United are too stuck in our ways to make the next step. I am not excluding that Ole can't become a decent manager. However in my books true progression would mean surrounding him with experienced people to help him out. That mean a top quality DOF, experienced coaches (especially defence wise) and a head of recruitment.

Now let's the witch hunt begins.

I don’t understand how you can conclude that Palace and Leicester robbed us for AWB and Maguire. We paid market value for established PL players.

When you sign a player who has excelled in Serie A or La Liga, you take a risk. How will the player settle? Will they adapt to the culture, the weather, the dressing room? Will their partner demand a move away when they realise it pisses it down in Manchester 362 days a year and gets dark at 3pm for 4 months of the year? Will they flirt with Barcelona and Madrid the moment they have a few decent games? Will they cope with the pace and physicality of the English game?

Sure, we could have signed Sergio Serginho from Atheltic de Espana or Pablo Pasta from FC Turin for half the price and posters would have fallen over themselves with excitement, despite never having actually seen them complete 90mins.

Problem is, Ole needed “safe bets” when he walked into the club. Is Maguire world class? No. Is Wan Bissake world class? No. But are they above average players who are proven in the PL? Yes.

Once we have 15/16 players who are very capable in one or two positions, we can start taking risks. We’re probably approach that point now. When Ole arrived, we had little room for manoeuvre - two bad signings and we could have finished 10th. You pay a premium for knowing the risk for an 8/10 PL player is lower.
 
I don’t understand how you can conclude that Palace and Leicester robbed us for AWB and Maguire. We paid market value for established PL players.

When you sign a player who has excelled in Serie A or La Liga, you take a risk. How will the player settle? Will they adapt to the culture, the weather, the dressing room? Will their partner demand a move away when they realise it pisses it down in Manchester 362 days a year and gets dark at 3pm for 4 months of the year? Will they flirt with Barcelona and Madrid the moment they have a few decent games? Will they cope with the pace and physicality of the English game?

Sure, we could have signed Sergio Serginho from Atheltic de Espana or Pablo Pasta from FC Turin for half the price and posters would have fallen over themselves with excitement, despite never having actually seen them complete 90mins.

Problem is, Ole needed “safe bets” when he walked into the club. Is Maguire world class? No. Is Wan Bissake world class? No. But are they above average players who are proven in the PL? Yes.

Once we have 15/16 players who are very capable in one or two positions, we can start taking risks. We’re probably approach that point now. When Ole arrived, we had little room for manoeuvre - two bad signings and we could have finished 10th. You pay a premium for knowing the risk for an 8/10 PL player is lower.

You don't spend 130m on two 'above average' players which is exactly how I would describe Maguire.