The “Ole In” Brigade

Leftback99 said:
We also sold Lukaku for £70m, got nothing for Herrera who was at least a £25m player, and next to nothing for Sanchez and Smalling for the season.

We could have sold Pogba for £80m last Summer and got the same contribution this season, giving us a negative net spend at the same time.

Results don't look so surprising when viewed on player values we've had available this season compared to last.

It's not as good a story as "we've spent £200m why are we miles better?!" though.
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I don't understand why you are using these details as a positive in your direction? These were the decisions of the manager, apparently. Every single one of them would have contributed something to us this season, apart from Sanchez who I still think is dogshit nowadays. I don't understand why you think this strengthens your angle?

I suppose it's a good story that 'the manager has been hard done by, that's why we're not better off' isn't it, though?
 
SAFMUTD said:
That just sad.
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To be fair, a trophy is a trophy, especailly a european one. You think Klopp didn't try his best to win it too? As much as I gave stick to Mourinho, I am grateful for the trophies he won for us in his first season, because its what sets us apart from the Spurs' and the Arsenals.
 
Massive Spanner said:
He's started six games including Rochdale (which we drew) and we had a grand total of 6 points out of 15 in them.

I've seen people use Pogba and Martial as an excuse on multiple occasions, hell when Martial was injured there were people on him proclaiming him to be the missing link and the player Ole needed to turn results around, but ultimately we've been really, consistently shit no matter who's fit or injured.

Maybe we will be better with a fit Pogba and McT alongside Bruno but I find it difficult to see it, because the real problem is that our manager hasn't a clue how to beat teams who sit back against us.
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You beat teams who sit back with quality players, especially quality midfielders who can find that key pass. With Pogba out we have not had any creative midfielders for months, so yes unlocking teams is going to be tough no matter the managers tactics. Let's see what happens when we have Bruno linking up with our forwards. With Pogba coming back soon we should be even more creative. If we look just as anemic the rest of the season I will join the Ole out crowd.

Every manager needs some quality players to look good.
 
mu4c_20le said:
To be fair, a trophy is a trophy, especailly a european one. You think Klopp didn't try his best to win it too? As much as I gave stick to Mourinho, I am grateful for the trophies he won for us in his first season, because its what sets us apart from the Spurs' and the Arsenals.
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I agree we should aim to win every single competition we’re in, even the summer preseason tournaments. But theres a long long way between that and stating LVG and Mourinho were successful here just because of those small time trophies.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
I don't understand why you are using these details as a positive in your direction? These were the decisions of the manager, apparently. Every single one of them would have contributed something to us this season, apart from Sanchez who I still think is dogshit nowadays. I don't understand why you think this strengthens your angle?

I suppose it's a good story that 'the manager has been hard done by, that's why we're not better off' isn't it, though?
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Like you say, they would have been useful so why are you expecting us to be much better without them just because we've spent £150m?
 
mu4c_20le said:
To be fair, a trophy is a trophy, especailly a european one. You think Klopp didn't try his best to win it too? As much as I gave stick to Mourinho, I am grateful for the trophies he won for us in his first season, because its what sets us apart from the Spurs' and the Arsenals.
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Arsenal won loads of FA cups under Wenger.
 
Sky1981 said:
This.

Proper manager would assess, coy, fool lukaku thinking he has a future, only sell him when he's ready.

Same with smailing. Proper manager would identify that smailing would do the job and that 80m would benefit the whole sum more if invested on a midfielder and a winger. Instead of stupidly blaming the board for not giving him 500m for a new xi.

Proper manager would hire a better coach, who he not only trusted but worthy of the job instead of some feel good appointment that offers no fresh idea.

Proper manager should know exactly his own weakness and strengt. Saf knew exactly what his swot are. He hires the right man, not the yes man.

Proper manager would correctly assess the team isnt fit enough to sustain a high intensity football for 50 games. He should then instill a different approach tactically to cover for his team. Mourinho plays defensive football with less runs, less injury. Pep utilizes a collective approach to make his players run less. I dont watch too many liverpool but you bet klopp have a few secret in his sleeves.

Proper manager would ask how much they can spend, and optimized it to the best result.

Proper manager can afford a rebuild without having to tear up the whole place, court relegation and naively thinks it's gonna be alright year 3.

Proper manager stands on the technical area. Barking orders, cheering his players at the very least, esprit d''corp management 101, ole and his 2 stooges just sit slumped on the duggout. It shows that he has no new instructions even when chasing a goal, it means that he fixes nothing. Its ok if you're winning but for the love of god even if it's only for show get up there and crack some whip.
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Proper manager would speaks the English!
 
Shamana said:
Arsenal won loads of FA cups under Wenger.
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Oh yeah, I was thinking more about their current state. I'm a big Wenger fan, and actually wanted him to step in when we sacked Jose. I thought Ole was a big risk even as caretaker and didn't really believe the rumours.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
I would agree in terms of length of service, but 'time' isn't dished out without any kind of sign that the person deserves to be given it. Everything Ole is doing is below-par, and nothing suggests it's going to get any better either. What we're seeing right now, and have been since August, is exactly what we saw for a few months after Ole was made permanent last season.

That is with £200m worth of new players.

What evidence is there to suggest things will improve? If anything, the evidence all points towards this being The Norm now under this manager.
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Do you get paid to put £200 Million on players in every post? Do you know how insanely stupid it is when £60 Million of that has played one fecking game? Add the context of English tax and utd tax and then realise he has bought 3 players to change a horror squad that had 8 leave and one shiny new boy. it's pathetic and boring, we can all read transfer news and reported prices.
 
Shamana said:
Yeah our squad is miles behind Wolves, Sheffield United, Leicester and Everton.
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We can't possibly be expected to compete. Ole needs another 3 years. Maybe 4. And 28 new players. Then we'll finally see that he's been Sir Alex Klopp this entire time.
 
"A Horror Squad".

Kin ell, he took over a squad that literally finished 2nd just 7 months before he took over :lol:

Overachievement or not, no horror squad, not even a poor squad ever made 2nd in any top league.
 
DFreshKing said:
Do you get paid to put £200 Million on players in every post? Do you know how insanely stupid it is when £60 Million of that has played one fecking game? Add the context of English tax and utd tax and then realise he has bought 3 players to change a horror squad that had 8 leave and one shiny new boy. it's pathetic and boring, we can all read transfer news and reported prices.
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So; how that horror squad finished second and after failed Cardiff's manager magic touch is 8th with big chance being 14th after next five PL games?
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
"A Horror Squad".

Kin ell, he took over a squad that literally finished 2nd just 7 months before he took over :lol:

Overachievement or not, no horror squad, not even a poor squad ever made 2nd in any top league.
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Wasn't is just around 4 months before?

But anyway I'm surprised our squad is even good enough to be in PL.
 
It was and still is an incomplete squad. It's not being overly biased to say that. We lack creative players and because of this we have struggled to break down teams in a lot of matches.

If we'd had Pogba and/or Bruno in the team regularly we would certainly have a few more points than we have now.
 
DFreshKing said:
Do you get paid to put £200 Million on players in every post? Do you know how insanely stupid it is when £60 Million of that has played one fecking game? Add the context of English tax and utd tax and then realise he has bought 3 players to change a horror squad that had 8 leave and one shiny new boy. it's pathetic and boring, we can all read transfer news and reported prices.
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I was going to respond to the Horror Squad catastrophy but it appears many others also found it astounding. As you were lad.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Thats just making excuses, all the times Ole gets compared with other managers the main argument is that the other manager has a better squad, no matter which team.
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I have not said they have a better squad, I quite think we have a decent squad.

How is that excuses? surely you have watched football long enough to know consistency is key.

If you are playing a regular first 11 week in week out you are likely to be alot more consistent than when you are chopping and changing.

You must be very naive to think that it's an excuse. How many times this season has DDG, AWB, Maguire, Shaw, McT, Pogba, Rash, Martial played together and that will tell you why we are so bad.
 
romufc said:
I have not said they have a better squad, I quite think we have a decent squad.

How is that excuses? surely you have watched football long enough to know consistency is key.

If you are playing a regular first 11 week in week out you are likely to be alot more consistent than when you are chopping and changing.

You must be very naive to think that it's an excuse. How many times this season has DDG, AWB, Maguire, Shaw, McT, Pogba, Rash, Martial played together and that will tell you why we are so bad.
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Didn't Chelsea have a lot of injuries themselves?

You can look up their team on opening day.

How much did they spent in the Summer, yet they are above us with an inexperienced manager and having equally bad injury rate?

Also the injuries are also down to the management. Since Ole took over our injury list exploded compared to previous seasons.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Didn't Chelsea have a lot of injuries themselves?

You can look up their team on opening day.

How much did they spent in the Summer, yet they are above us with an inexperienced manager and having equally bad injury rate?

Also the injuries are also down to the management. Since Ole took over our injury list exploded compared to previous seasons.
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Yes, that is why we are still in the race for top 4, because of their injuries and inconsistency. Surprise Surprise this has come about because they have had injuries.

They got Pulisic in for £50m and signed Kovavic for £40m. Currently we have 8 injuries and Chelsea 3. Equally as bad? What makes you say that?

Martial our main striker was injured for 3 months
Pogba our key player most of the season
Rashford our talisman 3 months
McT one of our players of the season out for 3 months

I won't even mention the rest.

Please enlighten me on how Chelsea have had equally as bad injuries?
 
romufc said:
Yes, that is why we are still in the race for top 4, because of their injuries and inconsistency. Surprise Surprise this has come about because they have had injuries.

They got Pulisic in for £50m and signed Kovavic for £40m. Currently we have 8 injuries and Chelsea 3. Equally as bad? What makes you say that?

Martial our main striker was injured for 3 months
Pogba our key player most of the season
Rashford our talisman 3 months
McT one of our players of the season out for 3 months

I won't even mention the rest.

Please enlighten me on how Chelsea have had equally as bad injuries?
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Rudiger - their best defender played 45 mins up until 14th of December.
Kante - their best midfielder missed 8 games
Loftus Cheek - out for the season
CHO - missed the first 6 games.
Pulisic has played 45 mins since New year.
Barkley has missed half of the games through injury.
Reece James - half of the games.
Emerson - 7 games.
Christensen was also injured at some point.
Pedro - injured
Giroud - injured

I can go on.

For Pulisic and Kovacic they lost their best player in Hazard.

Do you really pay attention to other team problems or just use ours to excuse Ole's incompetence?
 
Enigma_87 said:
Rudiger - their best defender played 45 mins up until 14th of December.
Kante - their best midfielder missed 8 games -
Loftus Cheek - out for the season -
CHO - missed the first 6 games.
Pulisic has played 45 mins since New year.
Barkley has missed half of the games through injury.
Reece James - half of the games.
Emerson - 7 games.
Christensen was also injured at some point.
Pedro - injured
Giroud - injured

I can go on.

For Pulisic and Kovacic they lost their best player in Hazard.

Do you really pay attention to other team problems or just use ours to excuse Ole's incompetence?
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So out of the names mentioned, which of them are first choice? Chelseas team is Kepa, james, Tomori, Rudiger, Azpi, Kante, Jorghinho, Willian, Mount, CHO, Tammy.

That is what they start with alot of the times. Please check your records because Reece James has not been injured since Sep 11, 2019.

I pay attention to everyone in the league, looks like you don't because I can easily have mentioned players like Dalot, Tuanzebe, Jones, Matic, Fred, Lingard etc but I didn't you know why? because they are not first choice.

What does Hazard have to do with this? We lost players in the summer too. So it is 100% Ole's fault that our players are injured?

So it was Ole's fault when we had a bad injury period when LVG was here?
 
romufc said:
So out of the names mentioned, which of them are first choice? Chelseas team is Kepa, james, Tomori, Rudiger, Azpi, Kante, Jorghinho, Willian, Mount, CHO, Tammy.

That is what they start with alot of the times. Please check your records because Reece James has not been injured since Sep 11, 2019.

I pay attention to everyone in the league, looks like you don't because I can easily have mentioned players like Dalot, Tuanzebe, Jones, Matic, Fred, Lingard etc but I didn't you know why? because they are not first choice.

What does Hazard have to do with this? We lost players in the summer too. So it is 100% Ole's fault that our players are injured?

So it was Ole's fault when we had a bad injury period when LVG was here?
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Seriously? He was injured for the beginning of the season and then eased into it. He is not thrown in the deep end like your beloved manager does with most of the players. He was on the bench and with the U23 til 19 October.

And you sure have to first check your facts before spouting anymore bollocks:

‘Reece James is out for a week or 10 days. He’s had a bit of a niggle around his ankle injury which he had surgery on in pre-season. That was a bit of a worry, but the doctors are saying at the moment he’ll be a week or so.

‘Alonso is similar. It’s the top of a glute muscle injury. They’re in a similar boat, not terrible injuries but obviously they’re missing a pretty crucial time.’
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The above quote was from Lampard himself during Christmas season on the official website:
https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2...injured-full-backs-and-looks-into-his-crystal


Next month against Newcastle he again received an injury causing him to miss the game against Arsenal:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10769685/chelsea-blow-reece-james-injury/


But we probably need to believe you instead?
 
Enigma_87 said:
Seriously? He was injured for the beginning of the season and then eased into it. He is not thrown in the deep end like your beloved manager does with most of the players. He was on the bench and with the U23 til 19 October.

And you sure have to first check your facts before spouting anymore bollocks:


The above quote was from Lampard himself during Christmas season on the official website:
https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/2...injured-full-backs-and-looks-into-his-crystal


Next month against Newcastle he again received an injury causing him to miss the game against Arsenal:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10769685/chelsea-blow-reece-james-injury/


But we probably need to believe you instead?
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So eased into it is the same as being injured? Didn't know that. Which players are thrown into the deep end?

He got injured and missed one game and recovered, that is hardly missing half the games is it?

Alot of players pick up knocks, Maguire, Lindelof, AWB have all picked up knocks and missed a couple of games here and there.

Missing 1/2 games is hardly a long term injury is it?

All I said was to have a entertaining play style is you need a consistent team, then you ended up bringing Chelsea's players that are not first team then realised you fecked up so start bringing knocks picked up by some players and players that have been sold?

Get a grip.
 
romufc said:
So eased into it is the same as being injured? Didn't know that. Which players are thrown into the deep end?

He got injured and missed one game and recovered, that is hardly missing half the games is it?

Alot of players pick up knocks, Maguire, Lindelof, AWB have all picked up knocks and missed a couple of games here and there.

Missing 1/2 games is hardly a long term injury is it?

All I said was to have a entertaining play style is you need a consistent team, then you ended up bringing Chelsea's players that are not first team then realised you fecked up so start bringing knocks picked up by some players and players that have been sold?

Get a grip.
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He missed three games since December in PL, played 10 mins against Spurs and was on the bench against Bournemouth and Lampard explained the reason for it. He also missed the Hull game in the cup again through the same injury.

He had a ankle operation in the Summer hence - yes needs more time to rehabilitate and match practice.

You said he hasn't been injured since 11 September, now you spin it as long term injury?

Again will you keep spouting bollocks or admit you were wrong with your claim?
 
Enigma_87 said:
He missed three games since December.

He had a ankle operation in the Summer hence - yes needs more time to rehabilitate and match practice.

You said he hasn't been injured since 11 September, now you spin it as long term injury?

Again will you keep spouting bollocks or admit you were wrong with your claim?
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I wasn't wrong though was I? I have always maintained long term injuries, a couple of knocks here and there is part and parcel of the game, everyone expects that.

Hes missed 3 games since end of September too..

I am not wrong that a consistent team will peform better than a team of consistent injuries.

You can make claims that I am spouting bollocks, but at least I respond unlike you when being caught out on something. E.g. the players mentioned were not first team Chelsea payers, and the LVG injury record after you claimed our injury have become worse than previous seasons because of Ole.
 
romufc said:
I wasn't wrong though was I? I have always maintained long term injuries, a couple of knocks here and there is part and parcel of the game, everyone expects that.

Hes missed 3 games since end of September too..

I am not wrong that a consistent team will peform better than a team of consistent injuries.

You can make claims that I am spouting bollocks, but at least I respond unlike you when being caught out on something. E.g. the players mentioned were not first team Chelsea payers, and the LVG injury record after you claimed our injury have become worse than previous seasons because of Ole.
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My initial quote was about Chelsea having many injuries - where was I talking about first team, rotational players and so forth? Was it wrong to say they have ton of injuries themselves?

Reece James played 1.357' minutes this season and Lampard has numerous times said he was having issues with his ankle - the one he was operated on - are you for real? Just admit you were wrong and move on, no point arguing with you..
 
Enigma_87 said:
My initial quote was about Chelsea having many injuries - where was I talking about first team, rotational players and so forth? Was it wrong to say they have ton of injuries themselves?

Reece James played 1.357' minutes this season and Lampard has numerous times said he was having issues with his ankle - the one he was operated on - are you for real? Just admit you were wrong and move on, no point arguing with you..
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Why would I admit I am wrong when you cannot accept the truth.

Please go have a look at most title winners. They have a team that plays regularly.

Liverpool this year - Have had injuries but most of their team plays week in week out
City - Same with them last year
City - Same with them year before
Chelsea - Same with them under Conte
Leicester - Same with them

Ofcourse they will get injuries through the season, but I doubt you will see a title winning team that has had injuries to their 4 / 5 main players for majority of the season.
 
romufc said:
Why would I admit I am wrong when you cannot accept the truth.

Please go have a look at most title winners. They have a team that plays regularly.

Liverpool this year - Have had injuries but most of their team plays week in week out
City - Same with them last year
City - Same with them year before
Chelsea - Same with them under Conte
Leicester - Same with them

Ofcourse they will get injuries through the season, but I doubt you will see a title winning team that has had injuries to their 4 / 5 main players for majority of the season.
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What truth? :wenger:

What did I say from the off?

Chelsea had ton of injuries themselves:
1. Did I mention first team or something - yes or no?
2. Did Chelsea had ton of injuries - yes or no?

3. Did Reece James receive an injury after 11th of September, contrary to this claim?

That is what they start with alot of the times. Please check your records because Reece James has not been injured since Sep 11, 2019.
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yes or no?

I don't care about who plays regularly or not, that was not my point from the off, which you are now trying to change the subject.
 
Enigma_87 said:
What truth? :wenger:

What did I say from the off?

Chelsea had ton of injuries themselves:
1. Did I mention first team or something - yes or no?
2. Did Chelsea had ton of injuries - yes or no?

3. Did Reece James receive an injury after 11th of September, contrary to this claim?



yes or no?

I don't care about who plays regularly or not, that was not my point from the off, which you are now trying to change the subject.
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romufc said:
have not said they have a better squad, I quite think we have a decent squad.

How is that excuses? surely you have watched football long enough to know consistency is key.

If you are playing a regular first 11 week in week out you are likely to be alot more consistent than when you are chopping and changing.

You must be very naive to think that it's an excuse. How many times this season has DDG, AWB, Maguire, Shaw, McT, Pogba, Rash, Martial played together and that will tell you why we are so bad.
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This is the quote you responded to... so that was the point in the first instance, not my fault you are cannot respond to the point I was making rather than making your own silly points.

There was no point responding to me if you wanted to make a completely different point?
 
meamth said:
Funny how bad results can change what they want.

Before this season: Get rid of deadwood! I don't care!
After we're in bad position: Ole is stupid, they should sign players first before the clear outs!

We all agreed at one point this is a slow process, and here we are now, aborting this mission.
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I’ve had this debate/argument before about getting rid of the deadwood. Couple things:

- You start by getting rid of the worst of the worst, the Lingard, Jones, Rojos of the team, not your better players.

- Deadwood still needs replacing (admittedly I don’t think this falls completely on Ole). Stripping the team bare bones was always going to be a disaster.

On a related note, and as pointed out by others on here, there is nothing to suggest Ole will be a success here. Almost relegating Cardiff twice in a row should be plenty evidence that this job is way out of his expertise.

Can’t believe people still argue for him in, change his name to David Moyes and people would be baying for blood. Forget the ability of the players for a moment, the guy is not what we need going forward. Far too many on here are too stubborn to admit that nostalgia is clouding their judgement
 
romufc said:
This is the quote you responded to... so that was the point in the first instance, not my fault you are cannot respond to the point I was making rather than making your own silly points.

There was no point responding to me if you wanted to make a completely different point?
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and this was the post you responded to:

Thats just making excuses, all the times Ole gets compared with other managers the main argument is that the other manager has a better squad, no matter which team.
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Where did that poster say first team?
 
It's so strange. Mourinho is judged by his meltdown and his other accomplishments are not taken into account yet he was a flop. But with the Ole in brigade they judge Ole based on their false hope that he will eventually succeed even though he has been so bad and achieved zilch.
 
TRUERED89 said:
3 years? You have to draw the line somewhere. 3 years is fine if you're still on the cusp of achieving your goals, right now we're a million miles off! What if we finish 17th would you still want to allow 3 years? top 4 is the bare minimum (at least it should be for United). No CL, Ed will pull the trigger in May.
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How many times since SAF have we achieved a top four finish? Twice?

It's this 'we're Man Utd' arrogance that's hurting the club. We are currently in a position that reflects the weakness of our squad, not the weakness (or strength) of our manager

Hence the reason I would say let's at the very leas let Ole get to January 2021....because by then the first XI at least should look more like his own
 
Lentwood said:
How many times since SAF have we achieved a top four finish? Twice?

It's this 'we're Man Utd' arrogance that's hurting the club. We are currently in a position that reflects the weakness of our squad, not the weakness (or strength) of our manager

Hence the reason I would say let's at the very leas let Ole get to January 2021....because by then the first XI at least should look more like his own
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Ok so Ole get's a freepass for whatever happens on the pitch.

We've got a worse squad than Sheffield United, Wolves, Everton and Leicester then.
 
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