The “Ole In” Brigade

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Why does currently being 8th conflict with the idea that we are developing for the long term?

Well we were developing for the long term this time last year and we were 6th. We were developing for the long term 2 years ago and we were 2nd. I sense a trend here...

I will always back Ole for no other reason than I love him. Yes, it's like Geordies with Keegan and Scousers with Dalglish, I don't care though. Ole's been a favourite of mine since 1996 and nothing will change that, ever. Until the very end I will be hoping he succeeds. I don't understand people who call themselves United fans who want him to fail.

Nobody wants him to fail, people just see the writing on the wall. There's no evidence he will ever be up to the level of what a United manager should be. I'm all for backing the project when there is a clear plan in place, but with Ole it's nothing more than blind faith.

Keegan got Newcastle promoted and nearly won the Premier League title. Dalglish won Liverpool 3 league titles and won one for Blackburn too. They both actually had managerial credentials. Ole isn't comparable. It's the same as the Fergie comparisons, "well he started poorly" yeah, but he'd still won league and European trophies for Aberdeen (still the last time someone stopped Celtic/Rangers) Klopp is often compared to Ole, "he finished 8th in his first season" again, he'd taken Dortmund to successive Bundesliga titles (still the last time someone stopped Bayern) and a CL final. They both had credentials.

Anyone who is backing Ole at this point is showing blind faith. His record is unacceptable. Worse than Moyes, worse than LVG, worse than Mourinho. He is to us what Hodgson was to Liverpool.

 

[Bobcat]

It’s very possible we could beat Chelsea, they have a young team and their current form is not great. But beating Chelsea is not going to change much, perhaps just give Ole a little respite until the next dire performance which certainly won’t be far away. Too much damage has already been done.

Maybe i'm a hopeless optimist, but maybe we can hope for a strong finish to the season?

With both Pogba and McTomminay returning and Bruno having trained with the team for more than a week it might transform our midfield. Dont get me wrong, Fred has been brilliant, but the supporting cast...not so much. Seeing as McTomminay and especially Pogba has played fairly little this season, they should have plenty of gas left in the tank for the run in when fatigue becomes and issue for everyone else

If you look at our stats this year it shows that pretty much every bit of creativity has come from the three up top. That means that pretty much anyone can just double mark our front three and pretty much all our attacking threat goes straight out the window. Pogba+Bruno creating chances, will mean other teams cant defend as easily against us as they have so far

 

[b82REZ]

Why does currently being 8th conflict with the idea that we are developing for the long term?

Because that displays regression, not progression. 2nd to 6th to 8th. Hardly screams a club moving in the right direction.

 

[Class of 63]

No, sorry, hang on, you said the past shows that we need to take a long term view. But the past, Man Utd or not, shows that taking a long term view with a failing manager is a very bad idea.

I'm asking you what in the past suggests that giving loads more time to a manager who has a horrible return in results, performances, and overall play is a good idea? Has it worked at all for any other club? Do you really think Man Utd are so unique that giving a really average manager loads more time than any other club in this position would do will somehow break that trend?

"currently being 8th with a thin and injury hit squad has no bearing on whether he's the right man for the long term."

For feck sake, 8th, 8th in the league, our worst points tally in the PL at this stage ever, behind Sheffield Utd and Everton, 10 wins in 30 games, and that should have no bearing on whether he's the right man? Not to mention that there's nothing Ole has done as a manager prior to being here that shows he's in any way cut out at a PL level, let alone at a club like Man Utd. It's just such an astonishing level of delusion that I can't actually get over it. When a manager like Poch is available who has proven himself capable of building really good sides, playing really good football, making betters much better and getting CL football and challenging for titles without much of a budget is available, and you are still clamming for a manager who got Cardiff relegated and had them 17th in the Championship, was in the Norweigan league because no other club would touch him, and now is performing arguably worse than any of our other post-SAF managers did, do you not start to think "hang on, maybe I'm being ridiculous because Ole's a club legend"?

If it wasn't Ole, and it was another manager without his ties to Utd performing like this, would you want to give them loads of time too?

Howard Kendall @ Everton, and Ron Saunders @ Villa, the fans at both clubs demanded their removal because of results/playing style, the owners ignored the fans, and within 18 months/2 years both of them had won the old Division One - not suggesting Ole will do the same, but ....

 

[Massive Spanner]

Howard Kendall @ Everton, and Ron Saunders @ Villa, the fans at both clubs demanded their removal because of results/playing style, the owners ignored the fans, and within 18 months/2 years both of them had won the old Division One - not suggesting Ole will do the same, but ....

Anything from the last 20-25 years?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Maybe i'm a hopeless optimist, but maybe we can hope for a strong finish to the season?

With both Pogba and McTomminay returning and Bruno having trained with the team for more than a week it might transform our midfield. Dont get me wrong, Fred has been brilliant, but the supporting cast...not so much. Seeing as McTomminay and especially Pogba has played fairly little this season, they should have plenty of gas left in the tank for the run in when fatigue becomes and issue for everyone else

If you look at our stats this year it shows that pretty much every bit of creativity has come from the three up top. That means that pretty much anyone can just double mark our front three and pretty much all our attacking threat goes straight out the window. Pogba+Bruno creating chances, will mean other teams cant defend as easily against us as they have so far

Our results were still just as bad with Pogba and McT both in the team, albeit there weren't many times they were, which means Bruno is supposed to be the missing link, a big ask.

 

[Bobcat]

Our results were still just as bad with Pogba and McT both in the team, albeit there weren't many times they were, which means Bruno is supposed to be the missing link, a big ask.

I may be wrong here, but did not Pogba get injured after Soton? IIRC we got robbed blind by Palace in the 2nd game, got robbed by Wolves the 3rd game, and were admittedly pretty shit, but also got robbed by Soton when they managed to get 1-1 with 10 men

 

[Class of 63]

Anything from the last 20-25 years?

Nope, that level of transformation hasn't happened in the top flight since Liverpool were last top dogs, mmmm

 

[TRUERED89]

Well we were developing for the long term this time last year and we were 6th. We were developing for the long term 2 years ago and we were 2nd. I sense a trend here...


Nobody wants him to fail, people just see the writing on the wall. There's no evidence he will ever be up to the level of what a United manager should be. I'm all for backing the project when there is a clear plan in place, but with Ole it's nothing more than blind faith.

Keegan got Newcastle promoted and nearly won the Premier League title. Dalglish won Liverpool 3 league titles and won one for Blackburn too. They both actually had managerial credentials. Ole isn't comparable. It's the same as the Fergie comparisons, "well he started poorly" yeah, but he'd still won league and European trophies for Aberdeen (still the last time someone stopped Celtic/Rangers) Klopp is often compared to Ole, "he finished 8th in his first season" again, he'd taken Dortmund to successive Bundesliga titles (still the last time someone stopped Bayern) and a CL final. They both had credentials.

Anyone who is backing Ole at this point is showing blind faith. His record is unacceptable. Worse than Moyes, worse than LVG, worse than Mourinho. He is to us what Hodgson was to Liverpool.

More like Souness! Or getting dangerously close to it. They say he was the one who truly ruined Liverpool.

 

[Lentwood]

It never ceases to amaze me what people consider 'giving time' to a manager means. Every fan trots out that soundbite....'we need to give manager X time'....and then 6 months later they are calling for their head citing 'no signs of progress'.

I would say 'time' is three seasons. After three seasons, the manager has had the chance to implement new coaches, new coaching and training methods, new rules and standards and turn over as many players in the squad as they deemed necessary

'Time' is not 14-months. Regardless of whether you think Ole is a good manager, or whether Jose, LvG or Moyes where good managers.....'time' should constitute three years minimum.

 

[Robbie Boy]

It never ceases to amaze me what people consider 'giving time' to a manager means. Every fan trots out that soundbite....'we need to give manager X time'....and then 6 months later they are calling for their head citing 'no signs of progress'.

I would say 'time' is three seasons. After three seasons, the manager has had the chance to implement new coaches, new coaching and training methods, new rules and standards and turn over as many players in the squad as they deemed necessary

'Time' is not 14-months. Regardless of whether you think Ole is a good manager, or whether Jose, LvG or Moyes where good managers.....'time' should constitute three years minimum.

No it isn't, that's absolute insanity. What club in their right mind would keep on a grossly under performing manager for 3 years to fall further behind their rivals and cause significant long term damage.

Furthermore, in what other line of work would an incompetent employee get the benefit of 3 years to improve their performance?

 

[Ish]

No it isn't, that's absolute insanity. What club in their right mind would keep on a grossly under performing manager for 3 years to fall further behind their rivals and cause significant long term damage.

Furthermore, in what other line of work would an incompetent employee get the benefit of 3 years to improve their performance?

100% this. I seriously don't understand that logic. Give a manager 3 years, basically irrespective of performance and short term results? Bobbins.

 

[TRUERED89]

It never ceases to amaze me what people consider 'giving time' to a manager means. Every fan trots out that soundbite....'we need to give manager X time'....and then 6 months later they are calling for their head citing 'no signs of progress'.

I would say 'time' is three seasons. After three seasons, the manager has had the chance to implement new coaches, new coaching and training methods, new rules and standards and turn over as many players in the squad as they deemed necessary

'Time' is not 14-months. Regardless of whether you think Ole is a good manager, or whether Jose, LvG or Moyes where good managers.....'time' should constitute three years minimum.

3 years? You have to draw the line somewhere. 3 years is fine if you're still on the cusp of achieving your goals, right now we're a million miles off! What if we finish 17th would you still want to allow 3 years? top 4 is the bare minimum (at least it should be for United). No CL, Ed will pull the trigger in May.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

It never ceases to amaze me what people consider 'giving time' to a manager means. Every fan trots out that soundbite....'we need to give manager X time'....and then 6 months later they are calling for their head citing 'no signs of progress'.

I would say 'time' is three seasons. After three seasons, the manager has had the chance to implement new coaches, new coaching and training methods, new rules and standards and turn over as many players in the squad as they deemed necessary

'Time' is not 14-months. Regardless of whether you think Ole is a good manager, or whether Jose, LvG or Moyes where good managers.....'time' should constitute three years minimum.

I would agree in terms of length of service, but 'time' isn't dished out without any kind of sign that the person deserves to be given it. Everything Ole is doing is below-par, and nothing suggests it's going to get any better either. What we're seeing right now, and have been since August, is exactly what we saw for a few months after Ole was made permanent last season.

That is with £200m worth of new players.

What evidence is there to suggest things will improve? If anything, the evidence all points towards this being The Norm now under this manager.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I may be wrong here, but did not Pogba get injured after Soton? IIRC we got robbed blind by Palace in the 2nd game, got robbed by Wolves the 3rd game, and were admittedly pretty shit, but also got robbed by Soton when they managed to get 1-1 with 10 men

He's started six games including Rochdale (which we drew) and we had a grand total of 6 points out of 15 in them.

I've seen people use Pogba and Martial as an excuse on multiple occasions, hell when Martial was injured there were people on him proclaiming him to be the missing link and the player Ole needed to turn results around, but ultimately we've been really, consistently shit no matter who's fit or injured.

Maybe we will be better with a fit Pogba and McT alongside Bruno but I find it difficult to see it, because the real problem is that our manager hasn't a clue how to beat teams who sit back against us.

 

[shaky]

Because that displays regression, not progression. 2nd to 6th to 8th. Hardly screams a club moving in the right direction.

Progression isn't an instant thing. Personally, I have more optimism for the future with our current squad than with any other squad we've had in the past 6/7 years. Being 8th right now is not that relevant to the long term. Win this weekend and we'll be within 3 points of 4th, but again, short term results aren't really relevant to how I judge the long term prospects. This isn't a defence of the overall job Ole has done, it's just an assessment of how I see the current roster of players and the potential they have going forward.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

I may be wrong here, but did not Pogba get injured after Soton? IIRC we got robbed blind by Palace in the 2nd game, got robbed by Wolves the 3rd game, and were admittedly pretty shit, but also got robbed by Soton when they managed to get 1-1 with 10 men

It's all well and good picking individual games but at the end of the season the table doesn't lie. Let's just see where we end up. Like all his predecessors before him if he doesn't make top 4 he has to go.

 

[romufc]

That is with £200m worth of new players.

you do realise that Bruno has only played 1 game?

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

More like Souness! Or getting dangerously close to it. They say he was the one who truly ruined Liverpool.

I'd say
Moyes = Souness (terrible, set the club back years)

LVG = Houllier (not bad but not good enough, signed a load of shite players)

Mourinho = Benitez (did pretty well, won a european trophy, shit on a stick football, wheels fell off in his last season)

Ole = Hodgson (seems completely clueless & out of his depth)

The parallels are scary haha

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

you do realise that Bruno has only played 1 game?

Okay, £150m worth of new players. It's still an absolutely abysmal return to be on our worst points haul given the games played.

 

[romufc]

Okay, £150m worth of new players. It's still an absolutely abysmal return to be on our worst points haul given the games played.

It is a terrible return but you and I both know the players signed were not for instant success, we knew all along we are building something for 2-3 years down the line.

 

[Sky1981]

It never ceases to amaze me what people consider 'giving time' to a manager means. Every fan trots out that soundbite....'we need to give manager X time'....and then 6 months later they are calling for their head citing 'no signs of progress'.

I would say 'time' is three seasons. After three seasons, the manager has had the chance to implement new coaches, new coaching and training methods, new rules and standards and turn over as many players in the squad as they deemed necessary

'Time' is not 14-months. Regardless of whether you think Ole is a good manager, or whether Jose, LvG or Moyes where good managers.....'time' should constitute three years minimum.

Which manager needs 3 years to show his tactics?

I'm not talking about result or trophies. Just 3 years to show his phylosophy.

Why should we give ole 3 years when brendan can do it in 3 months, shouldnt he gets the job then? Ancelotti can do it in 3 weeks.

 

[romufc]

Why should we give ole 3 years when brendan can do it in 3 months, shouldnt he gets the job then? Ancelotti can do it in 3 weeks.

Not being funny but there is a thing called new manager bounce.

Even we saw that.

 

[sunama]

I never expected 4th place. Quite a large proportion predicted a lower place finish.

Actually, a lot of fans expected top 3, with top 4 at a minimum.
The general rhetoric was that after Ole has a full pre-season with the players, we'll be unstoppable.
As it happens, that pre-season is what finished our season off, before it even started.

It’s called a realistic outlook. Not lowering of standards, just a realisation of where we are as a club and what is required for us to get back.

The fact that you are quite happy for us to finish outside the top 4, tells me that standards have fallen.
When Moyes got 7th, were you against him being fired?

The Swap, sell, buy, repeat policy of managers and players is more detrimental right now than if we had a feckin Monkey managing the team.

I partly agree with this.
Jose did win us 2 trophies and got us 2nd place, using the philosophy you mentioned above.

Money is drying up lads, feck league position.

In other words: we need to lower our standards.

We need a balanced side with quality,

Agreed.

Ole buys pretty well, I’m more concerned with that than anything else.

He bought so well that we are currently in 7th place.
In terms of results (and let's accept that results are what count), this is the worst we have been in about 30 years.

PS. It looks like I am picking on you, which is not my intention.
It just so happened that your single post summarised exactly what Ole-inners are saying, though you have tried to use logic to back up your argument (which is a good thing).

 

[SAFMUTD]

Embarassing that we won trophies... Never heard that one before.

United winning a European trophy was brilliant under Mourinho because for a club our stature we always bottle it in Europe. FA Cups are never to be sniffed at either, they all count.

“European trophy” the fact that we went so low that we play that tournament says it all.

Just imagine the world class clubs competing and celebrating winning the europa league.

Top clubs when rarely end up playing the europa league its because the fail in UCL group stage, and most use their second squad from that point on or lower their guns because theyre not interested on that second tier trophy, lets be real the only reason why we wanted to win it was to get to the UCL because we weren’t able to get there by getting top 4, the same as today.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Not being funny but there is a thing called new manager bounce.

Even we saw that.

I dont think what Brendan is doing can be qualify as new bounce, Leicester has been consistent for many months now.

 

[romufc]

I dont think what Brendan is doing can be qualify as new bounce, Leicester has been consistent for many months now.

Yes but you would appreciate that he has had the luxury of the same players to chose from until recently where Ndidi is injured and you see a few results not going their way.

Schmeichel 25, Ricardo 24, Soyuncu 24, Evans 25, Chilwell 20, Madison 24, Ndidi 21, Tielemans 24, Vardy 23, Barnes 23, Perez 22

11 of their players have played 22 games or more and 10 of them are considered first choice.

Manutd have had 6 players to play 22 or more games.

 

[el3mel]

“European trophy” the fact that we went so low that we play that tournament says it all.

Just imagine the world class clubs competing and celebrating winning the europa league.

Top clubs when rarely end up playing the europa league its because the fail in UCL group stage, and most use their second squad from that point on or lower their guns because theyre not interested on that second tier trophy, lets be real the only reason why we wanted to win it was to get to the UCL because we weren’t able to get there by getting top 4, the same as today.

Chelsea celebrated it last year so what ? The EL final day was the best day we have had in the post Fergie years.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Chelsea celebrated it last year so what ? The EL final day was the best day we have had in the post Fergie years.

By a country mile, too. Now that's what I would refer to as spoiled and entitled - in context, if Ole's 3yr Rebuild actually becomes A Thing - that was the best moment we are likely to see in 10yrs since SAF left.

 

[Gehrman]

I would still like ask the Ole in crowd, who was your favourite candidate to become Man Utds permanent manager when it was obvious that Mourinho was getting sacked?

 

[romufc]

I would still like ask the Ole in crowd, who was your favourite candidate to become Man Utds permanent manager when it was obvious that Mourinho was getting sacked?

What difference does that make? The club don't hire based on fans favourite manager.

 

[Gehrman]

What difference does that make? The club don't hire based on fans favourite manager.

I'm just interested in which mangagers did ole fans rate as the best fit for the united job? I certainly didn't see anyone suggesting Ole before he became interim manager, so I'm just curious which managers they actually rate as a fit for united that's available.

 

[romufc]

I'm just interested in which mangagers did ole fans rate as the best fit for the united job? I certainly didn't see anyone suggesting Ole before he became interim manager, so I'm just curious which managers they actually rate as a fit for united that's available.

I think Poch is perfect fit for Manutd. He fits with the young, british core, has the capability of playing good football as well.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I'm just interested in which mangagers did ole fans rate as the best fit for the united job? I certainly didn't see anyone suggesting Ole before he became interim manager, so I'm just curious which managers they actually rate as a fit for united that's available.

Literally no Man Utd supporter would have said Ole.

 

[Gehrman]

Literally no Man Utd supporter would have said Ole.

Which is why I'm curious. Generally they say, Poch is a loser has never won a trophy. Okay Allegri then? No shit defensive football, we don't want that. Conte? Same. Nagellsmann never heard of him.

Im geniuenly curious which managers apart from Ole they actually rate as fit for us.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Which is why I'm curious. Generally they say, Poch is a loser has never won a trophy. Okay Allegri then? No shit defensive football, we don't want that. Conte? Same. Nagellsmann never heard of him.

Im geniuenly curious which managers apart from Ole they actually rate as fit for us.

They will also tell you that Woodward is completely incompetent, yet at the same time pledge blind allegiance to the guy he entrusted to carry out this 'huge rebuild'. Despite his only experience at the highest level resulting in relegation. And heading for another one. Naturally it goes without saying that he has zero experience of carrying out any kind of successful rebuild.

It's actually kind of funny.

 

[Leftback99]

Okay, £150m worth of new players. It's still an absolutely abysmal return to be on our worst points haul given the games played.

We also sold Lukaku for £70m, got nothing for Herrera who was at least a £25m player, and next to nothing for Sanchez and Smalling for the season.

We could have sold Pogba for £80m last Summer and got the same contribution this season, giving us a negative net spend at the same time.

Results don't look so surprising when viewed on player values we've had available this season compared to last.

It's not as good a story as "we've spent £200m why are we miles better?!" though.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Chelsea celebrated it last year so what ? The EL final day was the best day we have had in the post Fergie years.

That just sad.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Yes but you would appreciate that he has had the luxury of the same players to chose from until recently where Ndidi is injured and you see a few results not going their way.

Schmeichel 25, Ricardo 24, Soyuncu 24, Evans 25, Chilwell 20, Madison 24, Ndidi 21, Tielemans 24, Vardy 23, Barnes 23, Perez 22

11 of their players have played 22 games or more and 10 of them are considered first choice.

Manutd have had 6 players to play 22 or more games.

Thats just making excuses, all the times Ole gets compared with other managers the main argument is that the other manager has a better squad, no matter which team.

 

[Stadjer]

I'd say
Moyes = Souness (terrible, set the club back years)

LVG = Houllier (not bad but not good enough, signed a load of shite players)

Mourinho = Benitez (did pretty well, won a european trophy, shit on a stick football, wheels fell off in his last season)

Ole = Hodgson (seems completely clueless & out of his depth)

The parallels are scary haha

Who will become our Klopp? Or do we need a Rodgers before that?