The “Ole In” Brigade

Why would people class lvg and jose as a failure?

They're not the holy grail, but definitely far from failure. If ole wins what they won we'd want him manager for life.

If you argue pep and klopp cant win with this squad under this regime shouldn't mourinho second be classed as a good season?
 
ravi2 said:
I believe Poch is coming next season after Ole fails to quality for top 4 so talking about Ole in/Ole out doesn't matter at this point.
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If we are really looking into a "rebuild" then its in our best interest that we miss out on top 4 if thats the only way we´ll actually get a good manager. Of course no fan of ManUtd will wish that but I fear if by some miracle we managed to get top 4 the board would turn a blind eye on all the evidence that suggest Ole is a terrible mistake and will insist with him which will inevitably make us drown even more.
 
Sky1981 said:
Why would people class lvg and jose as a failure?

They're not the holy grail, but definitely far from failure. If ole wins what they won we'd want him manager for life.

If you argue pep and klopp cant win with this squad under this regime shouldn't mourinho second be classed as a good season?
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We claim them as failures because we used to have that high standard, if a manager didnt win IMPORTANT trophies such as the premier league or UCL then it was a failure, that used to be our standard. What we are seeing with Ole is beyond ridiculous but to argue that LVG and Mourinho werent failures because they won small time trophies such as the FA Cup or the Europa League is embarrasing.
 
ravi2 said:
With Rashford injured I dont think we have to worry about top 4. Ole is gone in the summer as have almost every other manager we have had post SAF.
My only concern is Woodward playing DOF and fecking Poch over but I guess we shall cross that bridge when we get to it.
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That depends. People are generally happy with Oles signings and hes got Woodward doing exactly the same for him.
 
Our previous managers were bad appointments, not just because they were old glories or not good enough (Moyes), but also because they were very different between them. If you're signing LVG to develop his positional play, signing Mourinho as his replacement means that you're binning two years of time, of work in a concrete direction and thousands of millions to start from zero again. It means making it more difficult for everyone because they have to dismantle the previous basis before building their own one.

So yes, the managers haven't been good enough, but the lack of structure and football knowledge at the club have made them look worse than they are. And we're yet to improve in that regard despite the permanent failures time after time, expecting that the next manager will sort it out by himself. I mean, the current board must be Liverpool fans or something, there's no other explanation at this point.
 
I also find it funny how the notions of Ole as our manager and long-term planning suddenly seem synonymous, when in reality he was hired off the back of a 3-month new manager bounce, a lucky win over PSG, and a catchy song about his being at the wheel. None of that really smacks of meticulous planning, in my opinion.
 
Reynoldo said:
I think we suffered not solely from appointing the wrong managers but from appointing the wrong managers at the wrong time. Moyes was a huge gamble (on Fergies part) in thinking that he could just slide in and keep the juggernaut just rolling along. Once that failed its been wrong decision after wrong decision while trying to play catch up and losing.

I still think had Mou come in straight after Fergie he would have handled the pressure and got us a title in his first 2/3 years before his meltdown. (We would have got him right after madrid with a point to prove). As it happened we got him after another massive blow following Chelsea and he just hasn't been the same since.

Ideal situation would have been Mou to steady the ship and deliver a post Fergie title, then he has his 3 year meltdown and leaves (as is custom) and then we could have built for the future with a progressive coach like Poch but hey hindsight is 20 20
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Agree with this. Jose was very much the right manager at the wrong time. LVG though i feel was just wrong full stop, brought in when tyhe club were in absolute panic mode post-Moyes, throwing money at the problem.
 
Mr Smith said:
Agree with this. Jose was very much the right manager at the wrong time. LVG though i feel was just wrong full stop, brought in when tyhe club were in absolute panic mode post-Moyes, throwing money at the problem.
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We never fully backed Jose though, there's always some parts of our fans that finds fault in everything that he does.

Even when he's the first manager post SAF that actually tries to push our players harder, any sort of critics he has on players is deemed as Toxic, throwing them under the bus. Now we have the smiling pat on the back Ole, do we see our player improve? Pogba's still unhappy, Martials' still shit, Shaw is still useless, at least with Mourinho he tries to get something out of them. Ole just resigned to losing Pogba without a fight.
 
InspiRED said:
I’m more or less convinced at this point that the fervent Ole ins are either on a wum, or have genuine mental stability issues. I’m fairly confident there’s a plan in place and he’ll be gone in the summer. They’re best off ignored until then.
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No, we're just capable of remembering the past and taking a long term view.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Our results and style of play are honestly, the worst they’ve been post Fergie which is an absolutely damming indictment on Ole’s ability as a manager.
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Our style of play was worse under all 3 previous managers.

Robbie Boy said:
With a better manager, we would have made a-lot more progress than Ole has made, I don’t see how that’s even debatable.
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It's debatable because it's speculation. If we'd have kept hold of Lukaku and Sanchez we might be a bit further up the league, but we'd be further away from the squad we need in order to regain our position at the summit of English football.
 
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SAFMUTD said:
We claim them as failures because we used to have that high standard, if a manager didnt win IMPORTANT trophies such as the premier league or UCL then it was a failure, that used to be our standard. What we are seeing with Ole is beyond ridiculous but to argue that LVG and Mourinho werent failures because they won small time trophies such as the FA Cup or the Europa League is embarrasing.
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Embarassing that we won trophies... Never heard that one before.

United winning a European trophy was brilliant under Mourinho because for a club our stature we always bottle it in Europe. FA Cups are never to be sniffed at either, they all count.
 
Son said:
Embarassing that we won trophies... Never heard that one before.

United winning a European trophy was brilliant under Mourinho because for a club our stature we always bottle it in Europe. FA Cups are never to be sniffed at either, they all count.
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You must be new here, dig back a year 2nd is loser, EL is a tin mickey mouse cup.
 
Sky1981 said:
This.

Proper manager would assess, coy, fool lukaku thinking he has a future, only sell him when he's ready.

Same with smailing. Proper manager would identify that smailing would do the job and that 80m would benefit the whole sum more if invested on a midfielder and a winger. Instead of stupidly blaming the board for not giving him 500m for a new xi.

Proper manager would hire a better coach, who he not only trusted but worthy of the job instead of some feel good appointment that offers no fresh idea.

Proper manager should know exactly his own weakness and strengt. Saf knew exactly what his swot are. He hires the right man, not the yes man.

Proper manager would correctly assess the team isnt fit enough to sustain a high intensity football for 50 games. He should then instill a different approach tactically to cover for his team. Mourinho plays defensive football with less runs, less injury. Pep utilizes a collective approach to make his players run less. I dont watch too many liverpool but you bet klopp have a few secret in his sleeves.

Proper manager would ask how much they can spend, and optimized it to the best result.

Proper manager can afford a rebuild without having to tear up the whole place, court relegation and naively thinks it's gonna be alright year 3.

Proper manager stands on the technical area. Barking orders, cheering his players at the very least, esprit d''corp management 101, ole and his 2 stooges just sit slumped on the duggout. It shows that he has no new instructions even when chasing a goal, it means that he fixes nothing. Its ok if you're winning but for the love of god even if it's only for show get up there and crack some whip.
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How do you know what is proper manager or not?

Amazing post.
 
Sky1981 said:
We're 8th? Our deadwoods are banging goals across the isle, the other deadwoods is going to be Serie A defender of the year contender. 25 in 35. 0 goals in the last 4 League games. worst start in 30 years. Should I go on?
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I know that, but how do you know how a proper manager act on and off the field though?

Just because of the results?
 
NWRed said:
No, we're just capable of remembering the past and taking a long term view.
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The past, that's it?

What in the past exactly?

If you're relying on the past for your long term view then that's dumb, because you'd have to go back as far as Sir Alex to find a manager who has managed to turn things around from a similar position to Ole, and we all know Ole isn't Sir Alex, nobody is, he was one of a kind.

The "past" since then suggests that no PL manager, or big club manager in Europe in general, has ever turned it around from a position like this. The evidence is overwhelmingly there from your "past" that shows Ole is done for. You can't even use the past as an feasible excuse, you're living in some fecking fantasy land where apparently giving a failing manager loads of time means they'll turn things around and become a success despite there being absolutely no evidence, past or present, to suggest that's the case!
 
Sky1981 said:
You tell me, you come here shitting on everyone's opinion, why dont you share us your wisdom?
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Well I'm no professional manager I can't comment what Ole should do.

One thing is for sure, different manager, different style, off and on the pitch. What matters is the results.
 
meamth said:
Of course it is.

I'm just questioning your detailed 8 - proper manager guidelines. The formula which, is so easy to understand, any manager should follow.
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Off course they should follow, it's pretty fecking obvious, not paying 80M for a sideways upgrade, not shipping your main striker without a backup, not going in the season with bare bones midfielder.

Since you're so smart, you share your wisdom. If you're not, then stop barging in here pretending to be a wise man, while offering nothing but 1 liner.
 
Can't believe people argue with newbie posters on here. There will always be an Ole in guy. Just resist it until the sacking. I would have said lean back and enjoy the ride, but there isn't much to enjoy really, it is miserable.
 
Someone with Ole's CV managing Manchester fecking United is stupidest decision made by a football club ever. Even Moyse made more sense than this decision. He was proven in the PL and relegated a team despite signing 7 players. Why the feck would I give the guy who signed 7 players and relegated a team a job at the biggest football club in the world?
 
Sky1981 said:
Off course they should follow, it's pretty fecking obvious, not paying 80M for a sideways upgrade, not shipping your main striker without a backup, not going in the season with bare bones midfielder.

Since you're so smart, you share your wisdom. If you're not, then stop barging in here pretending to be a wise man, while offering nothing but 1 liner.
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Maguire is not a sideways step to Smalling. Go watch 90 mins of Roma and you will see that Smalling makes more mistakes than you think he does.

From memory he was at fault for the goal last weekend, at fault for misjudging a header V Juve.

Lukaku was always going to score goals, it is your opinion that he is our main striker, go back to last year's threads to see what people felt about Lukaku.
 
Not gonna happen, but say off chance we beat Chelsea. What is going to be the verdict than? We are back? We are going to be in top 4? Ole in?
 
ColvaleGoa said:
Not gonna happen, but say off chance we beat Chelsea. What is going to be the verdict than? We are back? We are going to be in top 4? Ole in?
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If you're still flip flopping off of one result, you don't deserve to have your opinion respected really. At this point I think the majority have made their mind up.
 
Sky1981 said:
Off course they should follow, it's pretty fecking obvious, not paying 80M for a sideways upgrade, not shipping your main striker without a backup, not going in the season with bare bones midfielder.

Since you're so smart, you share your wisdom. If you're not, then stop barging in here pretending to be a wise man, while offering nothing but 1 liner.
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It's pretty obvious because we're in this state.

Remember the days when the caf demanded massive clear outs of the squad. Here we are, we got that wish.

I'm not smarter than anyone posting here, but I would avoid posting guidelines like an expert on how to be a good manager.
 
Massive Spanner said:
The past, that's it?

What in the past exactly?

If you're relying on the past for your long term view then that's dumb, because you'd have to go back as far as Sir Alex to find a manager who has managed to turn things around from a similar position to Ole, and we all know Ole isn't Sir Alex, nobody is, he was one of a kind.

The "past" since then suggests that no PL manager, or big club manager in Europe in general, has ever turned it around from a position like this. The evidence is overwhelmingly there from your "past" that shows Ole is done for. You can't even use the past as an feasible excuse, you're living in some fecking fantasy land where apparently giving a failing manager loads of time means they'll turn things around and become a success despite there being absolutely no evidence, past or present, to suggest that's the case!
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The past meaning

1) The recent past of our club. Hiring managers with great track records but who don't understand the club didn't work and chopping and changing managers is always detrimental to long term aims.

2) The more distant past, the problems with the club are not new and the resolution is obvious, we need to completely revamp the squad, getting rid of the older highly paid underachieving players who are too comfortable with losing regularly and replacing them with young, hungry, talented players with the right mentality who can be moulded into a team. That is precisely what Ole is trying to do and currently being 8th with a thin and injury hit squad has no bearing on whether he's the right man for the long term.
 
meamth said:
Remember the days when the caf demanded massive clear outs of the squad. Here we are, we got that wish.
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Yes, thank you. We have a clear out and now the caf wants the players back. Young, Fellaini, Lukaku, Smalling, Herrera, Sanchez.

You need to clear out before you can build something. We are going into a summer where we do not need to shift players before bringing any in, that is so important.

If you look in the PL, not all clubs can say the same.

City - need to get rid of one winger / ST if they want another
Pool - Will need to get rid of one if they want a big name signing in the forward line.

We are in a unique position at the moment where whether it is Ole or a new man, it feels like a blank canvas.
 
izec said:
Can't believe people argue with newbie posters on here. There will always be an Ole in guy. Just resist it until the sacking. I would have said lean back and enjoy the ride, but there isn't much to enjoy really, it is miserable.
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Lean back and withstand the ride :lol:
 
romufc said:
Yes, thank you. We have a clear out and now the caf wants the players back. Young, Fellaini, Lukaku, Smalling, Herrera, Sanchez.

You need to clear out before you can build something. We are going into a summer where we do not need to shift players before bringing any in, that is so important.

If you look in the PL, not all clubs can say the same.

City - need to get rid of one winger / ST if they want another
Pool - Will need to get rid of one if they want a big name signing in the forward line.

We are in a unique position at the moment where whether it is Ole or a new man, it feels like a blank canvas.
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Funny how bad results can change what they want.

Before this season: Get rid of deadwood! I don't care!
After we're in bad position: Ole is stupid, they should sign players first before the clear outs!

We all agreed at one point this is a slow process, and here we are now, aborting this mission.
 
meamth said:
Funny how bad results can change what they want.

Before this season: Get rid of deadwood! I don't care!
After we're in bad position: Ole is stupid, they should sign players first before the clear outs!

We all agreed at one point this is a slow process, and here we are now, aborting this mission.
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I am as frustrated as any other fan on the results.

The thing I would say is, I am happier to finish 6th-8h and have a thin squad, having got rid of most of the deadwood so that we can go into a summer with players we know we want at this club.

I understand this process could have been painful with the key injuries it is alot more painful that I imagined it but we are where we are, we need to keep going. I still wouldnt have Lukaku, Smalling and the like in my team knowing we need to get rid.
 
NWRed said:
The past meaning

1) The recent past of our club. Hiring managers with great track records but who don't understand the club didn't work and chopping and changing managers is always detrimental to long term aims.

2) The more distant past, the problems with the club are not new and the resolution is obvious, we need to completely revamp the squad, getting rid of the older highly paid underachieving players who are too comfortable with losing regularly and replacing them with young, hungry, talented players with the right mentality who can be moulded into a team. That is precisely what Ole is trying to do and currently being 8th with a thin and injury hit squad has no bearing on whether he's the right man for the long term.
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No, sorry, hang on, you said the past shows that we need to take a long term view. But the past, Man Utd or not, shows that taking a long term view with a failing manager is a very bad idea.

I'm asking you what in the past suggests that giving loads more time to a manager who has a horrible return in results, performances, and overall play is a good idea? Has it worked at all for any other club? Do you really think Man Utd are so unique that giving a really average manager loads more time than any other club in this position would do will somehow break that trend?

"currently being 8th with a thin and injury hit squad has no bearing on whether he's the right man for the long term."

For feck sake, 8th, 8th in the league, our worst points tally in the PL at this stage ever, behind Sheffield Utd and Everton, 10 wins in 30 games, and that should have no bearing on whether he's the right man? Not to mention that there's nothing Ole has done as a manager prior to being here that shows he's in any way cut out at a PL level, let alone at a club like Man Utd. It's just such an astonishing level of delusion that I can't actually get over it. When a manager like Poch is available who has proven himself capable of building really good sides, playing really good football, making betters much better and getting CL football and challenging for titles without much of a budget is available, and you are still clamming for a manager who got Cardiff relegated and had them 17th in the Championship, was in the Norweigan league because no other club would touch him, and now is performing arguably worse than any of our other post-SAF managers did, do you not start to think "hang on, maybe I'm being ridiculous because Ole's a club legend"?

If it wasn't Ole, and it was another manager without his ties to Utd performing like this, would you want to give them loads of time too?
 
romufc said:
I am as frustrated as any other fan on the results.

The thing I would say is, I am happier to finish 6th-8h and have a thin squad, having got rid of most of the deadwood so that we can go into a summer with players we know we want at this club.

I understand this process could have been painful with the key injuries it is alot more painful that I imagined it but we are where we are, we need to keep going. I still wouldnt have Lukaku, Smalling and the like in my team knowing we need to get rid.
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We're the same, mate.

Don't care if Ole in or out at this point, just want to see a fresh young team next season. Call us defeatist, or whatever, this rebuild has been a long time coming.
 
ColvaleGoa said:
Not gonna happen, but say off chance we beat Chelsea. What is going to be the verdict than? We are back? We are going to be in top 4? Ole in?
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It’s very possible we could beat Chelsea, they have a young team and their current form is not great. But beating Chelsea is not going to change much, perhaps just give Ole a little respite until the next dire performance which certainly won’t be far away. Too much damage has already been done.
 
meamth said:
We're the same, mate.

Don't care if Ole in or out at this point, just want to see a fresh young team next season. Call us defeatist, or whatever, this rebuild has been a long time coming.
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Agreed, finally we have go a deadwood. The fact is even if we had all the said players, we were in the same position last year outside the top 4 playing shit football.

I would rather give younger players a chance to see if they will be any better, we have seen the commitment from McTominay, Rash, Greenwood, Williams, Maguire, AWB and improvements to Fred which could form part of a base for the new manager to work with.

All the above players are able to play different styles of football.
 
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