The “Ole In” Brigade

Nothing to get excited about beating Tranmere, but lots of positives on an awful pitch with lots of goals.

Always nice to see United play like this with a lot of kids on the pitch, it’s one of the things Ole has been great at.
 


It's easy to get caught up in the euphoria of an epic win. A large percentage of the fanbase felt as strongly as Rio that night, practically demanding Ole's position be made permanent off the back of that showing and the 10 games winning streak that preceded it.

No one could have predicted Ole would be sitting on a 33% win rate.
 
It's easy to get caught up in the euphoria of an epic win. A large percentage of the fanbase felt as strongly as Rio that night, practically demanding Ole's position be made permanent off the back of that showing and the 10 games winning streak that preceded it.

No one could have predicted Ole would be sitting on a 33% win rate.

I find it a bit rich from those fans that now defend Ole and ask for patience for him to rebuild the team over the next 4 or 5 windows but showed nothing but a lack of patience and short sightedness in wanting Solskjear appointed full time manager off the back of a short spell of good results rather than being rational and patient and waiting to see how he was fairing at the end of the season before saying that Ole should be appointed our permanent manager.
 
It's easy to get caught up in the euphoria of an epic win. A large percentage of the fanbase felt as strongly as Rio that night, practically demanding Ole's position be made permanent off the back of that showing and the 10 games winning streak that preceded it.

No one could have predicted Ole would be sitting on a 33% win rate.
Yep, the old adage is true: don’t make long term decisions on the back of short term emotion.
 
I don’t know how the Ole in brigade can back Ole at this point and see what Wilder is doing with Sheffield.

Their argument that no manager can do anything with this squad should be disproven after seeing what Wilder is doing with a team much worse than ours. Ole is out of his depth and I hope we are already in talks with Pochettino to take over in the summer.
 
I don’t know how the Ole in brigade can back Ole at this point and see what Wilder is doing with Sheffield.

Their argument that no manager can do anything with this squad should be disproven after seeing what Wilder is doing with a team much worse than ours. Ole is out of his depth and I hope we are already in talks with Pochettino to take over in the summer.
Interesting.

However it could also be argued that Wilder is doing better with a worse squad than Pochettino had when sacked for being 14th and, Champions League aside, having a poorer end to last season than Ole post December.
Also Wilder had the luxury of building his team relatively out of the public eye in the Championship and his credentials are in fact no better than Moyes at Everton at this point.
Sheffield United's squad has better balance than ours at the moment but our strategy has a long term objective and that is not necessarily to be 4th now, but to build a squad to be 1st in a couple of years or so.
 
I don’t know how the Ole in brigade can back Ole at this point and see what Wilder is doing with Sheffield.

Their argument that no manager can do anything with this squad should be disproven after seeing what Wilder is doing with a team much worse than ours. Ole is out of his depth and I hope we are already in talks with Pochettino to take over in the summer.

Maybe we should hire Wilder since he has achieved more silverware than Poch, who flatters to deceive.
 
Ole never should have been given the permanent job on anything but a yearly contact with a club option to renew. He's not like SAF, someone in the lower leagues that earned a chance at a top club. He was only ever supposed to be a caretaker manager. The amazing run lead to a snap decision that wasn't necessary to make.

I suspect the club didn't like the idea of Ole being on a short contract, to show confidence they have him a longer one, considering the cost is negligible for the income of the club. If they find the top class manager they're looking for they'll thank Ole for his service and happily buy out the remainder of his contact.
 
When the manager is himself a grandmaster in stealing a living from the club, let's not further bash players like Lingard or Jones.
 
our strategy has a long term objective and that is not necessarily to be 4th now, but to build a squad to be 1st in a couple of years or so

I don’t understand this point. How can our objective be to be first in a few years, but not involve being 4th along the way? Surely there should be markers of progress along the way to the end point, no? A team isn’t going to magically jump from being 8th to winning the league, Leicester aside. A long term goal is achieved by attaining a series of shorter term goals that lead in the direction of that long term goal, you can’t say that our goal is to be good in a few years, but that doesn’t mean we need to show any signs of improvement right now.
 
Interesting.

However it could also be argued that Wilder is doing better with a worse squad than Pochettino had when sacked for being 14th and, Champions League aside, having a poorer end to last season than Ole post December.
Also Wilder had the luxury of building his team relatively out of the public eye in the Championship and his credentials are in fact no better than Moyes at Everton at this point.
Sheffield United's squad has better balance than ours at the moment but our strategy has a long term objective and that is not necessarily to be 4th now, but to build a squad to be 1st in a couple of years or so.
Wilder can only dream of accomplishing what Pochettino has done :lol:. Even though Wilder is doing great this season, his season can be described as an anomaly because he has not shown the consistency yet to do it over multiple seasons. Next season Sheffield could relegated, so I will wait until he has another season under his belt before he can even be mentioned in the same sentence as one of the top two managers in football. Pochettino side was in a transitional period, where poor performances were natural due to the amazing cycle that just ended where he took a team with nothing spent to top four and a champion league final. I can say that Wilder in his career will never accomplish that :).

Wilder squad doesn’t have a better balance. They are just better coached.I have never heard of a long term objective where we forgo short term plan and play terrible football. It is another excuse Ole in brigade use to cover for his incompetency. I don’t see Klopp or Pep do that in their path to glory. Pochettino had a long term objective at Spurs but his team were playing much better than Ole united and we could see something building there.it is easy to blood in youth and say that I have a long term objective, but if you don’thave a proper philosophy behind that plan, the result will be what we are currently seeing at United.


Maybe we should hire Wilder since he has achieved more silverware than Poch, who flatters to deceive.

:lol:. Maybe we should hire Ranieri or Di Matteo as well :lol:
 
I get you but you didn't really answer the question or maybe your answer was too indirect or my question wasn't phrased well.

Everybody knows a DOF can fix this mess but what if we don't get one and we're stuck with Ed and the Glazers. So what do you think we should do regarding Ole if Ed and the Glazers stay? Stick with him? Sack him and bring in someone else?

Replace DOF with :
1. A world class manager
2. A young modern Manager
3. A RW
4. A ball playing CB
5. A Transfer Window
6. A new Owner
7. Etc
 
In the interview on Sky this week, he says he went to Ole :

" I think I had to rediscover myself. Last year was difficult for me on the professional side, because stuff was not going how I wanted and I was not performing as well.

So I had to find it within myself what was lacking and came to the conclusion that it was time for me to change environment.

I made my decision around March, and I went to the manager's office and told him it was time for me to find something else.

I wasn't performing and I wasn't playing. I think it was better for both sides to go separate ways. I think I made the right decision. "

To me that sounds an awful lot like a player asking to leave, no? He wasn't performing so Ole wasn't playing him...

You do understand he was pushed out. Players get treated in a way where the professional pride makes them realise they are not wanted.

He was suddenly dropped when Ole came and it was done in the way that made it obvious he wasn’t part of Ole’s plans. It was last year people remember. In March when Ole became permanent manager is when he went to ask for it. Also fact that Ole so easily accepted it shows Ole wanted him out. Don’t give me that “not keeping players who don’t want to be here“ crap cos Pogba proves that theory wrong.

Only one player I know who was content to stay as a sub and even when his manager accepted an offer for him still stayed. That says a lot about that players lack of pride and integrity...when you consider reds like Phil Neville and Nicky Butt moved on once offers were accepted for them.
 
You do understand he was pushed out. Players get treated in a way where the professional pride makes them realise they are not wanted.

He was suddenly dropped when Ole came and it was done in the way that made it obvious he wasn’t part of Ole’s plans. It was last year people remember. In March when Ole became permanent manager is when he went to ask for it. Also fact that Ole so easily accepted it shows Ole wanted him out. Don’t give me that “not keeping players who don’t want to be here“ crap cos Pogba proves that theory wrong.

Only one player I know who was content to stay as a sub and even when his manager accepted an offer for him still stayed. That says a lot about that players lack of pride and integrity...when you consider reds like Phil Neville and Nicky Butt moved on once offers were accepted for them.

I think we fighting a losing battle trying to open peoples eyes. Lukaku for all his flaws is a 20 plus a season striker. It is the simple case of mismanagement. I watched Lukaku and Alexis last night they were terrific. He decided to start the new campaign with 2 attackers less, who does that? i just want Poch in to show our fan base what real coaching is.
 
:lol:. Maybe we should hire Ranieri or Di Matteo as well :lol:

Precisely. We have had two of the best managers in world football and they had both failed.

What makes you think Poch will be successful when he has not proven zilch? Its just the grass is greener, kneejerk mentality thats awash in this forum.
 
Precisely. We have had two of the best managers in world football and they had both failed.

What makes you think Poch will be successful when he has not proven zilch? Its just the grass is greener, kneejerk mentality thats awash in this forum.
If they failed. Then what Ole is doing is murdering the club
 
Precisely. We have had two of the best managers in world football and they had both failed.

What makes you think Poch will be successful when he has not proven zilch? Its just the grass is greener, kneejerk mentality thats awash in this forum.

I see you do not look at context, Which clubs has Poch coached and what has he instilled in his teams. What trophies do you expect him to win with Espanyol, Southampton and Spurs? He consistently improved all his teams and took spurs to depths they could only dream of. You say its knee jerk i see it as logic.

He worked under even worse conditions at Spurs with Levy. Going through a whole season and watching all his rivals strengthen their teams because he didnt have money. All his players improved and what happened with him being sacked was always going to happen because you can only go so far with limited resources.

If you think its knee jerk take a look at all his suitors who would like to acquire his services even though it went pear shaped towards the end at Spurs.
 
Precisely. We have had two of the best managers in world football and they had both failed.

What makes you think Poch will be successful when he has not proven zilch? Its just the grass is greener, kneejerk mentality thats awash in this forum.

Do they failed though?

Or was it our expectations wasn't realistic?

A 2nd place and a few cups isn't failed in my eyes. Especially we're up agains 100 pts city.
 
Precisely. We have had two of the best managers in world football and they had both failed.

What makes you think Poch will be successful when he has not proven zilch? Its just the grass is greener, kneejerk mentality thats awash in this forum.

What would you call what Ole is doing if those managers failed?
 
Wilder can only dream of accomplishing what Pochettino has done :lol:. Even though Wilder is doing great this season, his season can be described as an anomaly because he has not shown the consistency yet to do it over multiple seasons. Next season Sheffield could relegated, so I will wait until he has another season under his belt before he can even be mentioned in the same sentence as one of the top two managers in football. Pochettino side was in a transitional period, where poor performances were natural due to the amazing cycle that just ended where he took a team with nothing spent to top four and a champion league final. I can say that Wilder in his career will never accomplish that :).
I get you admire Poch however the myth that spurs were a nothing side before him has to stop. Spurs had been improving year on year under Jol and Redknapp. In fact Rednapp took them to a CL semi final with the supposedly inferior squad. I’m sure our resident Spurs supporters would agree with me?
Also, outside of raising a top 6 team to a top 4 team what has he done to be considered one of the Top 2 managers in the world? As much as I hate to admit it that is definitely Klopp and Guardiola, in fact I would say that If anything Poch may or may not even be top 10.
 
Do they failed though?

Or was it our expectations wasn't realistic?

A 2nd place and a few cups isn't failed in my eyes. Especially we're up agains 100 pts city.
Exactly. Think it’s just the Ole in new spin , to say top managers already failed. But if 2nd place and winning cups is failing then what do we call the catastrophe that Ole is doing.
 
I've always questioned if Sanchez was actually Jose's signing, Fred too, but Mhiki aside, were the rest really flops? Ibra was stellar, Lukaku scored plenty, Lindelof is first choice CB, Matic was fine for a short time, Dalot is just a kid, Bailly has been injured most of the time, and Pogba is a top player, that is not in question, it's just not working out for him here.

We all knew this with Jose, so why start the job if you're not going to finish it, it's like him asking for older established players and then getting grumpy when it didn't happen was a surprise, did Woodward actually know what he was hiring?

And who's to say if he had got a CB what we might have achieved, but the team has been ripped up once again now, maybe with hindsight just getting Maguire a season earlier might have been a better and cheaper idea.

Things are infinitely worse now that much is clear.
Bailly = Flop, but can turn it around.
Mkhitaryan = Flop.
Ibrahimovic = Great signing, even if it was only for the short-term.
Pogba = Great signing, though hopefully there's still more to come from him.

Matic = Good signing, but a pretty short-term one tbh.
Lukaku = Was so poor last season that he left United therefore he can only be considered a flop. At least we recouped most of the money for him (I think).
Lindelof = Good signing, hasn't quite been great yet but hopefully there's more to come from him.

Sanchez = Diabolical signing, worst signing United has ever made in their premier league era.

Fred = Has been great since the start of December, starting to look like a successful signing.
Dalot = Has been injured too much so far but has shown glimpses of unreal quality for a right back (going forward), wait and see for Dalot.
Grant = I don't even really count him as a signing tbh. Nothing more to say about him.

Overall, 2/4 success rate first summer (but one of the two successes is no longer at the club), 2/3 success rate second summer, Sanchez was a disaster of a signing, 1/2 in the final summer window (Dalot has unfortunately been injured a lot so far and I don't really count Grant, no disrespect to him).

Our signings under Jose had a 50% success rate. Not quite good enough tbh, you want at least 2/3 of them to work out, 80% of them.
 
Precisely. We have had two of the best managers in world football and they had both failed.

What makes you think Poch will be successful when he has not proven zilch? Its just the grass is greener, kneejerk mentality thats awash in this forum.

Where they really? LVG got sacked at every big club he was in, twice. We got him from Holland's national team whose basically the place to go for managers prior to retirement. Mou got sacked at his 2 previous jobs. He's got the record of losing the dressing room three times at a row.

Don't get me wrong United's problems are way bigger then the manager. Everything at this club is rotten. Our owners care only about money, our CEO and fitness team are clueless, the scouting team seem unable to bring up names that aren't what a 12 year old football fan would suggest by playing football manager, our recruitment team take ages to sign players, they over pay players and they struggle to get rid of players let alone making some profit out of them, the coaching team are in top jobs most because of their previous United links rather then what they had produced in football and even the youth academy seem struggling to get results (our U23 got relegated last season and our U18 sits 7th place). However let's be honest here. Both LVG and Mou were in decline prior to joining us. No wonder why the former has since retired while the latter is at Spurs, not Real or Bayern.

I think you'll struggle to find a supporter that thinks that the manager is the only problem United have at Manchester United. However, just because we've got this multitude of problems that doesn't mean we should add an incompetent manager to that endless list of problems as well.
 
Precisely. We have had two of the best managers in world football and they had both failed.

What makes you think Poch will be successful when he has not proven zilch? Its just the grass is greener, kneejerk mentality thats awash in this forum.

Oh my god with that argument what on earth makes you believe that Ole will be succesfull here? We are 8th atm you know.
 
I get you admire Poch however the myth that spurs were a nothing side before him has to stop. Spurs had been improving year on year under Jol and Redknapp. In fact Rednapp took them to a CL semi final with the supposedly inferior squad. I’m sure our resident Spurs supporters would agree with me?
Also, outside of raising a top 6 team to a top 4 team what has he done to be considered one of the Top 2 managers in the world? As much as I hate to admit it that is definitely Klopp and Guardiola, in fact I would say that If anything Poch may or may not even be top 10.

He's not a top 2 manager in a world, but he's on average had Spurs around 3rd place troughout his tenure bar his final season, while having almost non-existent netspend, he's had spurs in their highest points and places in the PL, took them further in the CL than they have ever been, and also took Southampon to their best ever PL season. He is so to speak a PL proven manager and he is not old either.
 
Precisely. We have had two of the best managers in world football and they had both failed.

What makes you think Poch will be successful when he has not proven zilch? Its just the grass is greener, kneejerk mentality thats awash in this forum.


Do you really believe in this logic, or do you desperately want to spin things in Ole’s favour? What happens if Ole fails? Going by your logic we should hire a manager from Australia, right? If he fails aswell, we could say “we had 5 managers, and they all failed”, so the next logical step is to appoint an amateur, because we already tried professional managers. Maybe give it to Rashford as player manager.

Poch has proven a lot more, you just don’t want to see it.
 
Precisely. We have had two of the best managers in world football and they had both failed.

What makes you think Poch will be successful when he has not proven zilch? Its just the grass is greener, kneejerk mentality thats awash in this forum.

Wow. Just the illogical nonsense from Ole supporters is quite frightening.

If Jose & LVG failed then Ole definitely has & should be sacked ASAP according to your own argument right? Right...?

Or is it just making whatever excuses going to keep a failed, simple & useless manager at our great club
 
Bailly = Flop, but can turn it around.
Mkhitaryan = Flop.
Ibrahimovic = Great signing, even if it was only for the short-term.
Pogba = Great signing, though hopefully there's still more to come from him.

Matic = Good signing, but a pretty short-term one tbh.
Lukaku = Was so poor last season that he left United therefore he can only be considered a flop. At least we recouped most of the money for him (I think).
Lindelof = Good signing, hasn't quite been great yet but hopefully there's more to come from him.

Sanchez = Diabolical signing, worst signing United has ever made in their premier league era.

Fred = Has been great since the start of December, starting to look like a successful signing.
Dalot = Has been injured too much so far but has shown glimpses of unreal quality for a right back (going forward), wait and see for Dalot.
Grant = I don't even really count him as a signing tbh. Nothing more to say about him.

Overall, 2/4 success rate first summer (but one of the two successes is no longer at the club), 2/3 success rate second summer, Sanchez was a disaster of a signing, 1/2 in the final summer window (Dalot has unfortunately been injured a lot so far and I don't really count Grant, no disrespect to him).

Our signings under Jose had a 50% success rate. Not quite good enough tbh, you want at least 2/3 of them to work out, 80% of them.

Bailly = he had a fantastic first season with us then his injury prone problems took over his career. The guy had injury problems at his previous club as well. It makes you wonder why none at the club had picked that up
Mkhitaryan = I got some mates who support Dortmund and they all say the same about him. He's a decent players but he lacks the character to play at a top club. In fact he even struggled to settle down at Dortmund at first as well and they are a fable club to play for. Once again it makes you wonder why none at the club had picked that up
Ibra = Short term signing and a huge success
Pogba = Top top signing. However anyone who followed Juventus knew that Pogba can only play 1 position (ie left attacking side of a 3 men midfield). Both Allegri and Conte failed to change his role. It makes you wonder why none at the club had picked that up
Matic = he was already in decline at Chelsea.It makes you wonder why none of at the club had picked that up
Lukaku = he's a powerful goal poacher with the first touch of an elephant. He will score plenty of goals against small opposition but he would always struggle against top defenders. It makes you wonder why none at the club had picked that up
Lindelof = he's a decent defender but he's not particularly fast or particularly good in air. Which is a big problem in the fast paced EPL were crosses are still quite relevant. It makes you wonder why none at the club had picked that up
Sanchez = People at Arsenal knew that Sanchez was in decline. It makes you wonder why none at the club had picked that up
Fred = he came from Ukraine so he needed ample time to settle down in the EPL. It makes you wonder why none at the club had picked that up
Dalot = he came to United injured and has been injured ever since. Is he an injury prone player? It makes you wonder why none at the club had picked that up
Grant = irrelevant

Out of those players

Mkhitaryan, Ibra, Pogba and Lukaku are Mino's clients. Mou is quite close with Mino.
Matic, Lukaku and Ibra are Mou's ex players. We could have added Willian to that list. Thank god we didn't signed him.
Dalot and Lindelof came from the Portuguese league, a league Mou is quite close to.

That's not down to Mou as well. 1/2 of Moyes signings came from a club he had links to (ie Fellaini). During LVG period we've seen a huge amount of players coming from leagues he had close links to + players he had previously played for him and now things are looking that way with Ole as well (Haaland, Josh King, Ighalo, James who was suggested by his matey Giggsie, Longstaff who was suggested by his matey Carrick etc). I am pretty confident that if Pochs or any other manager is brought in then we'll see this same situation again.

Which makes you wonder, were they really signed for the club's best interests or was it down to their links with the manager?

So the issue here is pretty obvious. The system is inadequate to bring success. We need top football people at the club, whose got the club's best interest at heart and his job is to assess, suggest and facilitate the signings of players while stopping the managers from committing brain farts and giving jobs to his boys. TBF the managerial job had become far too big for the manager to also do the recruitment himself. He can't be expected to train the players while concurrently be in Spain to scout X player and negotiate with Y club and Z agent to try and signing this or that player. So seriously put this huge burden over the manager only for us to bash them for failing in it.
 
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In the interview on Sky this week, he says he went to Ole :

" I think I had to rediscover myself. Last year was difficult for me on the professional side, because stuff was not going how I wanted and I was not performing as well.

So I had to find it within myself what was lacking and came to the conclusion that it was time for me to change environment.

I made my decision around March, and I went to the manager's office and told him it was time for me to find something else.

I wasn't performing and I wasn't playing. I think it was better for both sides to go separate ways. I think I made the right decision. "

To me that sounds an awful lot like a player asking to leave, no? He wasn't performing so Ole wasn't playing him...
Never ending story with Lukaku and Ole. No matter how many times you repeat that, people still will believe what they want.
Ole didn't see Lukaku as a first option striker. Last year Ole had his "Rashford striker" project. Lukaku himself said that he knew it is finished when Ole put him on the wing. ("Once I learned that [Ole Gunnar] Solsjkaer planned to put me on the wing, then I knew my time at Manchester United was over."). Ole maybe wanted Lukaku to stay but as a cover option. Of course that Lukaku decided to go somewhere where he will play on his position in first 11.

So yes, Lukaku wanted to leave but he was forced to leave.
 
Never ending story with Lukaku and Ole. No matter how many times you repeat that, people still will believe what they want.
Ole didn't see Lukaku as a first option striker. Last year Ole had his "Rashford striker" project. Lukaku himself said that he knew it is finished when Ole put him on the wing. ("Once I learned that [Ole Gunnar] Solsjkaer planned to put me on the wing, then I knew my time at Manchester United was over."). Ole maybe wanted Lukaku to stay but as a cover option. Of course that Lukaku decided to go somewhere where he will play on his position in first 11.

So yes, Lukaku wanted to leave but he was forced to leave.

Only inconsistent story you hear is from Lukaku, who creates new story every time he talks about why he left. He also said he decided to leave after the second game itself and also it wasn't as if Lukaku played most games as RW. He played couple of times, one was against Arsenal which was tactical move to exploit space left by FBs.

Its not even surprising that Lukaku wanted to leave, only reason he signed for us was Jose. His dream was always to play in many leagues so he thought this was the best moment to change clubs. It was all good till that point, not signing any replacement when players like Ben Yedder was signed for just 30+ million was very poor move from the club.
 
Precisely. We have had two of the best managers in world football and they had both failed.

What makes you think Poch will be successful when he has not proven zilch? Its just the grass is greener, kneejerk mentality thats awash in this forum.

Two of the best managers in world football... when they were well past their sell-by dates.

Poch proven zilch, as opposed to Olé, who's proving week-in, week-out that him and his vast backroom staff are way, way out of their collective depths.
 
Interesting.

However it could also be argued that Wilder is doing better with a worse squad than Pochettino had when sacked for being 14th and, Champions League aside, having a poorer end to last season than Ole post December.
Also Wilder had the luxury of building his team relatively out of the public eye in the Championship and his credentials are in fact no better than Moyes at Everton at this point.
Sheffield United's squad has better balance than ours at the moment but our strategy has a long term objective and that is not necessarily to be 4th now, but to build a squad to be 1st in a couple of years or so.

:lol: Yeah, if you believe so..
 
I don’t understand this point. How can our objective be to be first in a few years, but not involve being 4th along the way? Surely there should be markers of progress along the way to the end point, no? A team isn’t going to magically jump from being 8th to winning the league, Leicester aside. A long term goal is achieved by attaining a series of shorter term goals that lead in the direction of that long term goal, you can’t say that our goal is to be good in a few years, but that doesn’t mean we need to show any signs of improvement right now.
It's quite simple really.
Is it possible to buy a better player now than one we may have in a certain postion? Of course.
But what happens when an elite level player becomes available in the next window and we've already signed someone inferior in that position (probably for an enhanced fee and wages)?
Also, we have to consider the emerging talent we have in the youth teams. Is Greenwood the complete player now at 18? No, obviously. Do we blow up his path to the 1st team by looking purely at the short term?
But for injuries we would most likely be in the top 4 now and while the squad would definitely benefit from strengthening you only have to look at the reactions on here when actual available names are mentioned.
Patience is required. This is the correct strategy.
 
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