Just saw a wonderful post match discussion that the broadcasters had with Fed. He said that, after he lost the break, even he thought for a little bit that it might not happen for him tonight. He built up the worst case scenario kind of things, but then the work he has been doing on the mental side made a difference. Also, he mentioned that it helped that he was playing Rafa after a good 5-6 months, and not after Rafa had beaten him 4-5 times in the last 4 months in the run up to the tournament.
Tennis 2017
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Just saw a wonderful post match discussion that the broadcasters had with Fed. He said that, after he lost the break, even he thought for a little bit that it might not happen for him tonight. He built up the worst case scenario kind of things, but then the work he has been doing on the mental side made a difference. Also, he mentioned that it helped that he was playing Rafa after a good 5-6 months, and not after Rafa had beaten him 4-5 times in the last 4 months in the run up to the tournament.
Yeah, I think that Fed won every match he served quite easily bar the first one which he lost, and the final one which went to deuce. Those three in between he won easily.
Rafa had breaks against him in every game, if I am not mistaken.
Good to see these two slog it out again. Nadal for Roland Garros.
Ecstatic about the win. Excellent performance for the maestro and also Nadal deserves a lot of credit for todays inspiring performance and reaching the finals.
Both at this age playing like that and eliminating the top players of today like Nishikori, Monfils, Raonic, Dimitrov, Wawrinka is truly amazing achievement considering the time both took off the tour the last year.
Grueling match could've gone either way, but Federer came on top this time in tight fashion.
As for Federer - it's amazing how talented this guy is. 14 years ago he won his first slam, played with 3 generations of tennis players and he's still winning the big titles. It's something very unnatural for Federer to be chasing the pack and be against the odds as in his prime he was pummeling all his opponents on the tour, so this is something he can add to his legacy which is lucrative of course. Couldn't happen on a better occasion with a better opponent.
Both at this age playing like that and eliminating the top players of today like Nishikori, Monfils, Raonic, Dimitrov, Wawrinka is truly amazing achievement considering the time both took off the tour the last year.
Grueling match could've gone either way, but Federer came on top this time in tight fashion.
As for Federer - it's amazing how talented this guy is. 14 years ago he won his first slam, played with 3 generations of tennis players and he's still winning the big titles. It's something very unnatural for Federer to be chasing the pack and be against the odds as in his prime he was pummeling all his opponents on the tour, so this is something he can add to his legacy which is lucrative of course. Couldn't happen on a better occasion with a better opponent.
You're joking, right? Jordan is almost universally detested.
One of the biggest cnuts the sports world's ever produced.
Never really been into basketball that much, any chance of a quick overview as to why he's such a cnut?
C'mon... Space Jam wasn't that bad.
Best basketball film with looney tunes in it of all time
Even watching United win isn't giving me any joy at all after that match. Can't think of a lower tennis moment since that Djokovic final here. The backhand DTL against Dkojo haunted me for ages and I think the net cord at 3-2 here might. Maybe he'd have held and still lost but it just feels so cruel. Really hope he somehow wins one slam from somewhere but I really can't see him get lucky with Djoko and Murray going out again.
Lots and lots of incidents like this.
The article touches on a bit more about his increasing need to dominate everything around him: dictating how his team-mates played, and if they didn't play submissively in his presence they'd be off the team. He was a bully on and off the field.
Re-watched, you were right. It was oscillating between deuce and advantage on all of Rafa's serves. The championship game itself was insane.
I see, cheers.
As for the tennis it's ridiculous that these 2 are still serving up games of this quality a decade on from the Federer - Nadal heyday. Didn't think Federer had it in him after the last final defeat to Novak, to come back and do it and against Nadal of all people. What a story!
Anybody but murray
He was widely known to have been a dick to his teammates, and is still a jackass today, from all accounts.
The speech he delivered at the basketball hall of fame, the one during which he cried and that turned him into the meme to end all memes, was essentially one big FU to everyone he felt disrespected him at any point in his life and/or didn't believe in him.
He is about as ungracious a human being as you could ever possibly find-the exact opposite of a Nadal or a Federer.
Damn Australian Open. Always on at the oddest times.
And MJ was a titanic asshole. Legendarily huge one.
And MJ was a titanic asshole. Legendarily huge one.
You don't know much about Basketball if think everyones a Tim Duncan or Steve Nash. Both ultra rarities, but it's odd comparing a gentlemans sport at heart to a sport that still breeds most of it's talent from the lower class.
His cuntinesh is a bit exaggerated to be fair. He is widely recognized as the most competitive sportsman ever, and in NBA, trash talk is very common, everyone does it. Jordan did it too, and hurt some people's feelings, but other players do it all the time too.
He was a bit of a dick to his teammates but it was all about making them better and perform better. His fight with Steve Kerr is quite famous when Jordan apparently punched him, but at the same time it seems that Jordan started respecting him from that moment and days later passed the ball for the final shoot to him (something that Jordan rarely did, he always got the final shoot himself) for Bulls to win the match, and it seemed that they have always been in good terms.
Jordan sounds like Cristiano
Haven't heard a single guy who played with Ronaldo complain about anything, quite the opposite. I think Ronaldo is super hard on himself in order to be the best while Jordan was hard to himself and all the others to facilitate his greatness.
Did the stuff about Jordan come out a lot during his peak or once he retired.
Sorry for continuing the OT, but Jordan is far worse than Cristiano Ronaldo.
I am a Bulls fan and a massive Jordan fan too, but there's no denying he was a complete dick of a man. Probably helped him win as much as he did and be as dominant as he was.
I am a Bulls fan and a massive Jordan fan too, but there's no denying he was a complete dick of a man. Probably helped him win as much as he did and be as dominant as he was.
Finished watching this match earlier, but so happy Federer won. He's just one of a kind. To bounce back after his injury and to beat Nadal, his toughest opponent while down 3-2 and facing a 4-2 hole is just incredible in a Grand Slam final. He may just win Wimbledon if he keeps it up.
Nadal should be the favorite for the French Open. Age is still on his side relatively.
Nadal should be the favorite for the French Open. Age is still on his side relatively.
Do he think it is possible that Nadal will ever catch Federer grand slam record? it would be the perfect way for them to end there careers tied as the two greatest of all time.
With Roger's victory today there is a difference of 4. Nadal might win a couple of Roland Garros and could fight in another surface but Djokovic and Murray will be back.He won't get it so "easy" as in this occasion.Besides Zverev and perhaps Dimitrov will continue improving.
I can see Nadal fighting until he is 32 or 33 but not with 35 like Federer.
Just seen this. You are missing footwork - an area in which Fed excels.
From players I've seen(either live or highlights):
First serve Sampras / Ivanisevic
Second serve Sampras
Return of serve Connors
Defensive coverage (speed) Djokovic/Chang
Volleying Edberg
Overhead smash Federer/Sampras
Forehand DTL Federer
Forehand CC Federer
Backhand DTL Guga
Backhand CC Guga
Slice Federer / Sampras
Drop shot Federer
Lob Murray
Power Delpo(both wings)
Endurance Djokovic/ Nadal / Lendl
Mental strength Djokovic / Borg
Adapatability (surface) Federer / Borg
Tactical ability (reading opponent) Federer
Flair Federer
Footwork Federer
Second serve Sampras
Return of serve Connors
Defensive coverage (speed) Djokovic/Chang
Volleying Edberg
Overhead smash Federer/Sampras
Forehand DTL Federer
Forehand CC Federer
Backhand DTL Guga
Backhand CC Guga
Slice Federer / Sampras
Drop shot Federer
Lob Murray
Power Delpo(both wings)
Endurance Djokovic/ Nadal / Lendl
Mental strength Djokovic / Borg
Adapatability (surface) Federer / Borg
Tactical ability (reading opponent) Federer
Flair Federer
Footwork Federer
Agree with most of that but Sampras also wins the forehand category for me. His running forehand is legendary and he hits them just as precise as Federer but harder.l and consistently deeper... it's a heavier shot than Federer's which immediately troubled the opponent because of its power... even when it wasn't hit close to the lines it would cause havoc and the moment his opponents failed to direct their shot towards his backhand the point would be decided in usually max two forehand shots. I don't feel that is the case with Federer and I feel his forehand is also a little bit less reliable.
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Yes, Sampras had a great forehand but Federer wins it for me. Probably the best single shot in the game. Compared to Sampras - he has more variety and generally is the better shot out of the two. There is a reason why the tour played always on his backhand(same goes for Sampras but his black hand was always seem to be a weakness for him, apart from slices). He could rip them apart from anywhere around the baseline. Whe he started declining his forehand transformed a bit and sometimes get forgotten how good it was. It became more loopy and put a lot more spin and rar
USO final against Hewitt - simply outrageous.
Disagree, variety doesn't matter (apart from the aestatic (sp) sides of things) when you hit them like sampras. Monster shot. His backhand was weaker than federer's but Federer still has that problem like Sampras had and lots of onehanded backhands have aside from Wawrinka and Muster on form: high topspin balls trouble its accuracy (failure rate is high especially when you decide your strategy is take them on the rise) and depth and hard shots are harder to deal with. Federer won this match because I've not seen him hit his backhand cleaner vs Nadal during pressure points in the fifth set.
The avoiding the forehand thing is as you hinted, a good tactic especially vs one handed backhands. Most top players on the tour will go to the weaker side of the opponent, people do not just avoid Federer's forehand but also that of lesser players.
Tbh I have several players' forehands as more impressive than Federer's. He is all about creativity, footwork, flair and great point building with a very good forehand to finish it off. Wawrinka on top form is probably the better striker of the ball on both wings. Nadal or Djokovic's tactics can not hurt either side against him, he just hits through them with amazing consistency like a beast when he is on.
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For me variety is pretty important, otherwise guys like Gonzo, Blake, Delpo would have the best forehands in the game. Federer has better placement, better angles in his forehand and generally is a shot he based his game around and structures his points. Sure Sampras has one of the top ones in the game and those running fh's were thing of beauty but still all things considered Federer is just better as a whole.
He hardly could've got overpowered by those forehands
always some excellent angles when playing with Nalby.
and of course when playing against counter punchers his fh always dominated the rallies.
Federer's backhand was not a weakness. It was seen as such because of his monstrous forehand and due to Nadal's encounters and the spin and weight Nadal put on his shots. Sampras would have a lot of problems himself against Nadal and compared to Federer I can't see him doing well against Nadal on slower surfaces - on either wing from the baseline. Federer on the other hand always went toe to toe with Nadal from the baseline and even on clay he overpowered him sometimes(like at Hamburg where he snapped his CC run).
I think recent version of Federer clouds a bit the judgement on his fh as I said it is not what it used to be. He rarely goes flat like the old days.
I disagree with alot in that post (forehand, backhand, sampras' backhand, federer matching nadal from the baseline) and thought about posting youtube vids of sampras on here in my previous posts but failed to see the point as players of this stature (and that of federer's) are bound to have had amazing moments of all kinds and I am currently working as well
My disagreement is not clouded because of federer's recent form because I have watched tennis for 25 years and played at a decent national level myself in the youth which doesn't mean my opinion counts more than anyone's btw. Just felt the need to brag.
Could get back to this discussion after work but it's pointless as we know our beliefs and are not likely to change eachother's minds.
I disagree with alot in that post (forehand, backhand, sampras' backhand, federer matching nadal from the baseline) and thought about posting youtube vids of sampras on here in my previous posts but failed to see the point as players of this stature (and that of federer's) are bound to have had amazing moments of all kinds and I am currently working as well
My disagreement is not clouded because of federer's recent form because I have watched tennis for 25 years and played at a decent national level myself in the youth which doesn't mean my opinion counts more than anyone's btw. Just felt the need to brag.
Could get back to this discussion after work but it's pointless as we know our beliefs and are not likely to change eachother's minds.
No worries mate. I play amateurish tennis myself (used a lot more back in the days). I'm off to do some work as well, so we can discuss it later. Both Sampras and Federer are my favorite players so I appreciate both. To me Federer matched Nadal in Rome 05 was it I think where he was the better player on court but failed to convert the important points. Same in MC I think a year later where he had 1BP converted out of 17.
I'd appreciate your input as well on the matter when you have more time.
@Enigma_87 Have to disagree with you on mental strength and the choice of Borg and Djokovic. Nadal is tougher than them mentally.
The other two when on form, yes very mentally tough to beat but when things don't go their way.. quit or lose form. Nadal is a fighter to the death.
Also important to include Inside out forehand/inside in forehands, as they're very important shots.. which Federer and Nadal excel, but Djokovic's inside out is actually the best I think, he can flatten it out ridiculously.
The other two when on form, yes very mentally tough to beat but when things don't go their way.. quit or lose form. Nadal is a fighter to the death.
Also important to include Inside out forehand/inside in forehands, as they're very important shots.. which Federer and Nadal excel, but Djokovic's inside out is actually the best I think, he can flatten it out ridiculously.
Djokovic edges it for me to be honest - those 2 forehands at the USO against Federer. Matches at the USO and AO against Nadal. 7 in a row twice against Nadal. I think this is his best outlet and what differentiates him from the rest.
As for forehands Djokovic is excellent (inside out) but I wouldn't rank it among the best. I'd take Gonzo's inside out for example over his.
I think we were discussing after it that it would be better to rank players quantitatively i.e. 7/10 for Federer at volleying etc. That way we would be able to get an aggregate total for each player and we could then compare them. Unfortunately, we would have to agree on the weights for each category.
Djokovic at his best yes, but for me mental strength is about how you handle moments when you're almost down and out and it needs to be consistent mental strength. Djoko when he first broke onto the scene, his mental strength wasn't where it should be and he worked on it to get where he did.. now it has become flaky again. Nothing wrong with that but Nadal is pretty much always on it (injury permitting).
Oh of course, my initial list didn't include anyone out of the top 4. Gonzo had a stunner of a forehand.
I see, this is for the top four(Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray)? Would be interesting topic indeed. Probably 10 for whoever is the best in the category, like:
Volleys:
Federer - 10
Murray - 9
Nadal - 8
Djokovic 7.5
something like that?
I think we should consider mental strength when all were in their respective peaks. Every player has up and downs in their careers and it takes effect in that side of the game - struggling with injuries, off court matters, etc.
As for top four, I'd definitely take Federer's FH as a whole, then Nadal, then Djokovic then Murray. Breaking it into categories is interesting as some players like Federer/Murray have more variation in their game while Nadal for example is brute force most of the time.
Yeah, that's exactly what we had in mind. The problem is what players do we rank i.e. the Big Four of the modern era or the likes of Sampras or even the likes of Laver before him.
Interesting, must admit with all the other categories I did, I look at it in relation to their respective peaks but with mental strength I looked at it is a cohesive whole because their entire career tells you more about what makes them tick between the ears. Peak mental strength is a concept I've never looked at but okay, I will go with that and you're probably right Djoko is up there in that regard.
First serve - Federer 9.5 Nadal 8.5
Second serve - Federer 10 v Nadal 8.5
Return of serve - Tie (8)
Defensive coverage (speed) - Nadal 10 v Federer 8.5
Volleying (technique) - Nadal 8.5 v Federer 8
Volleying (decision/approach) - Federer 9 v Nadal 7
Overhead smash - Federer 9.5 v Nadal 9
Forehand DTL - Federer 10 v Nadal 9.5
Forehand CC - Nadal 10 v Federer 9
Forehand Inside out - Tie (9.5)
Forehand Inside in - Federer 10 v Nadal 9
Backhand DTL - Federer 9.5 v Nadal 9
Backhand CC - Nadal 9.5 v Federer 8.5
Passing Shots - Nadal 10 v Federer 9
Slice - Federer 9 v Nadal 8
Drop shot - Federer 9.5 v Nadal 9
Lob - Nadal 9 v Federer 7.5
Power - Federer 9.5 v Nadal 9
Endurance - Nadal 10 v Federer 9.5
Mental strength - Nadal 10 v Federer 9.5
Adapatability (surface) - Nadal 10 v Federer 9
Tactical ability (reading opponent) - Tie (9.5)
Flair - Federer 10 v Nadal 8.5
Footwork - Tie
@Enigma_87
That was my original list, we can do it as a table perhaps, once we are all in agreement and weight the categories, include Djoko into it and maybe a few other select greats.
I split volleying into two separate categories, knowing when to approach the net and volley execution. For me Federer is astute at knowing when to come to net, but his volley execution isn't all that spectacular. Nadal rarely comes to net so should be docked points for that but when he does, it is pretty damn good.
Someone like McEnroe would probably get 10's on both counts.
Second serve - Federer 10 v Nadal 8.5
Return of serve - Tie (8)
Defensive coverage (speed) - Nadal 10 v Federer 8.5
Volleying (technique) - Nadal 8.5 v Federer 8
Volleying (decision/approach) - Federer 9 v Nadal 7
Overhead smash - Federer 9.5 v Nadal 9
Forehand DTL - Federer 10 v Nadal 9.5
Forehand CC - Nadal 10 v Federer 9
Forehand Inside out - Tie (9.5)
Forehand Inside in - Federer 10 v Nadal 9
Backhand DTL - Federer 9.5 v Nadal 9
Backhand CC - Nadal 9.5 v Federer 8.5
Passing Shots - Nadal 10 v Federer 9
Slice - Federer 9 v Nadal 8
Drop shot - Federer 9.5 v Nadal 9
Lob - Nadal 9 v Federer 7.5
Power - Federer 9.5 v Nadal 9
Endurance - Nadal 10 v Federer 9.5
Mental strength - Nadal 10 v Federer 9.5
Adapatability (surface) - Nadal 10 v Federer 9
Tactical ability (reading opponent) - Tie (9.5)
Flair - Federer 10 v Nadal 8.5
Footwork - Tie
@Enigma_87
That was my original list, we can do it as a table perhaps, once we are all in agreement and weight the categories, include Djoko into it and maybe a few other select greats.
I split volleying into two separate categories, knowing when to approach the net and volley execution. For me Federer is astute at knowing when to come to net, but his volley execution isn't all that spectacular. Nadal rarely comes to net so should be docked points for that but when he does, it is pretty damn good.
Someone like McEnroe would probably get 10's on both counts.
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