Sunderland bid £12m for O'Shea, Gibson & Brown
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
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Can't you see guys, we simply can't cope with just Rafael, Fabio, Vidic, Rio, Smalling, Evans, Evra, Jones, De Laet, Gill and; as if needed; Fletcher.
O'Shea and Brown are critical to our success, damn it!
O'Shea and Brown are critical to our success, damn it!
Last I read they didn't want to pay the price Newcastle set.
United will cope just fine without them. I can understand if they all want more playing time.
Against everyone in the league this year, our squad was well stocked with squad players... and yet... we reached the final of the Champions League, and won the Prem with 9 points and games to go.
If we replace Brown with Jones this year, we've done a great piece of business. I'll miss Brown, he's a fantastic servant, but it's best for his career if he goes.
However, we can't just lose players who slot in like this when we need them. They're great players who will accept bench time. O'Shea is great cover for the defence.
In the last few years, we've been absolutely shafted with defensive injuries. You say Fletcher and Giggs can play there how happy would you be with that?
Fabio,
Rafael
Ferdinand seem to be particularly injury prone. If all three of those were out, we'd struggle to play three games a week.
Exactly.
You're forgetting Valencia, and who's to say we'll not buy another full back?
Fergie won't let those guys go without a plan. He has more signings in mind or there is some youth team player he really believes in.
In terms of the PL homegrown rule, we still have Carrick, Ferdinand, Rooney, Owen, Smalling, Fletcher, Giggs, Evans and Cleverley for next season (plus any potential signings like Young for example).
Only four of those, Fletcher, Giggs, Evans and Cleverley, would count as ''club-trained'' homegrown players for the Champions League regulations. You need four of them in order to name a full 25 man squad as well as a further four homegrown players, which can be either ''club-trained'' or ''locally-trained'' homegrown players. We currently have six ''locally-trained'' players: Carrick, Ferdinand, Rooney, Smalling, Owen and Jones. Worth noting that O'Shea doesn't actually qualify as a homegrown player for the Champions League.
Phil Jones will be registered outside the PL squad for the next three seasons but he'll have to be registered in the CL 25 man squad for the next two, then in his third season he'll be registered on the B list.
Rafael, Fabio and Welbeck (+ Amos too) all now qualfiy as ''club-trained'' homegrown players and will have to registered in the 25 man squads from the 2012/13 season onwards. So if, for example, Giggs and Owen left next season, we'd have 3/4 players to potentially replace them.
We look absolutely fine in terms of the homegrown rule. The only slight concern is that we're a bit short of ''club-trained'' homegrown players for the Champions League next season. If Cleverley wasn't with us next season then we'd be one short and so could only name a 24 man squad. It's not really a big deal though and like I said, O'Shea leaving wouldn't actually have an effect on that anyway.
Only four of those, Fletcher, Giggs, Evans and Cleverley, would count as ''club-trained'' homegrown players for the Champions League regulations. You need four of them in order to name a full 25 man squad as well as a further four homegrown players, which can be either ''club-trained'' or ''locally-trained'' homegrown players. We currently have six ''locally-trained'' players: Carrick, Ferdinand, Rooney, Smalling, Owen and Jones. Worth noting that O'Shea doesn't actually qualify as a homegrown player for the Champions League.
Phil Jones will be registered outside the PL squad for the next three seasons but he'll have to be registered in the CL 25 man squad for the next two, then in his third season he'll be registered on the B list.
Rafael, Fabio and Welbeck (+ Amos too) all now qualfiy as ''club-trained'' homegrown players and will have to registered in the 25 man squads from the 2012/13 season onwards. So if, for example, Giggs and Owen left next season, we'd have 3/4 players to potentially replace them.
We look absolutely fine in terms of the homegrown rule. The only slight concern is that we're a bit short of ''club-trained'' homegrown players for the Champions League next season. If Cleverley wasn't with us next season then we'd be one short and so could only name a 24 man squad. It's not really a big deal though and like I said, O'Shea leaving wouldn't actually have an effect on that anyway.
If O'Shea wants to go, then let him go I say - with twins and Jones we will have enough cover in positions he's supposed to play in. £12m for the trio seems like not that much though, I'd ask them to improve their bid.
We might, and if somehow all those players are injured at the same time we've got Reece Brown and Scott Wooton on the payroll and playing regularly for the reserves!
Bit of upward movement on the price and I'd say we'd take it. Not a bad deal for either party - Sunderland would be getting two excellent defenders with loads of experience, and Darron Gibson, we'd be getting some handsome cash. We'd probably look to bring in one or two young defenders though. Or maybe O'Shea will end up staying as I can imagine SAF being reluctant to part with him.
EDIT: Looks like we might have signed one of the new defenders already.
EDIT: Looks like we might have signed one of the new defenders already.
Course they are.
If you think Da Laet and Gill are anywhere near as good you're in for a shock.
It's a shame if all three leave, and will massively effect our chances next season. Good luck to them all.
It won't affect our chances at all next season though. Brown doesn't play anyway, twins and Jones will cover for O'Shea and Cleverley is probably as good as Gibson anyway.
They can have Gibson and Brown. feck off if they think they're getting O'Shea. He's worth at at least £20m in terms of versatility, experience, willingness to sit on the bench, understanding of the club and he's our only tall full back and he's well liked by all accounts.
You're missing the point completely Sults.
If O'Shea wants to leave in search for first team football, then so be it. But for people who want to sell him off because he isn't good enough in their eyes, s what the problem is here.
Honestly, if you had the option, given everything that he has done for the club, continues doing and what he provides in terms of versatility, solidity and as an important personality who has grown with the club, would you just let him go?
EDIT: That too for 4-6 mn as some think he is worth?
How am I a WUM? fecking hell, I'm saying it's incredibly naive to think we can get rid of all these players and it won't make a difference.
Probably as good?! Probably?! Gibson isn't a good footballer by any stretch of the imagination.
Oh, and Brown started 4 league games last season ... didnt get a medal.
Poor Twigg failed to understand my "we survived Munich" comment.
What the feck have you been smoking?
I dont want O'shea to go and clearly regard him as an important member of the squad but 20M? Seriously? For O'shea?
What if O'Shea asked for more playing time? Phil Neville and Butt spent like a decade as squad players until they one day moved because they wanted more playing time.
Look at the amount of appearances O'Shea has made over the last few years.
Just because you don't like him doesn't make him an important member of our squad.
Now where's that thread about agenda driven posters.....
I've just read £12m? 
For all three?
Not in terms of footballing ability or accounting wise but in terms what he offers he's invaluable to our squad. Take Giggs, he'd only be "worth" a few million but would you accept a £3m bid for him even taking sentiment aside?
For all three?Not in terms of footballing ability or accounting wise but in terms what he offers he's invaluable to our squad. Take Giggs, he'd only be "worth" a few million but would you accept a £3m bid for him even taking sentiment aside?
I don't dislike him, I just don't see why we need him.
Incidentally, look at the amount of appearances Lucas has made for Liverpool in the last few seasons; I don't particularly rate him either.
So if they do go Fergie is naive and you know more?
Who says O'Shea wants a transfer? It's probably the club rebuilding, lowering wage bills, and more than likely recognised another player who will replace him.
Anyway, we're still in speculation mode.
Unless O' Shea's asked to leave, then I wouldn't want to see him go. He can fill in a multitude of positions and do a solid job, he knows what the club's about, never moans about being on the bench, is statistically the premiership's greatest ever goalkeeper, plus he nutmegged Figo and scored that winner at Anfield.
In conclusion, I love John O' Shea.
In conclusion, I love John O' Shea.
Again at the moment if these three go (which I doubt)
Gary Neville - 4 appearances
Wes Brown -15 appearances
Paul Scholes - 33 appearances
John O'Shea - 32 appearances
Darron Gibson - 20 appearances.
104 appearances they made last year between the 5 of them. Or 21 appearances each. That's an integral part of our Prem winning team. Just because every game wasn't in the premiership, doesn't mean they weren't important. If they're not playing the League Cup /FA Cup games then who is?
At points last season, we were missing Fabio, Valencia, Giggs, Anderson and Ferdinand for long periods. We went to Anfield with Vidic and Rio injured. Evra barely recovered in time.
Say Rio and Fabio both go down for a month next year. And then Evans gets a red.
We'd be left with
Rafael-Jones-Vidic-Evra
With Smalling on the bench. If we have anything like the injury crisis of 2 years ago, we'd crumble!
You don't rate Liverpools player of last season?
Half of this site knows better than Fergie. Where have you been?
It will make a difference. For the better.
I trust Ferguson in whatever he does. I just hope this
a) Isn't motivated by a cut in wages
b) means Ferguson has other targets.
It'd be a shame to let two great servants, and a really promising CM go.
It looks to be a good deal for all parties involved. United get younger, Sunderland get upgrades over what they have, and the players get a shot at cementing a first team place.
Yes, losing O'Shea could be a loss at some point but I doubt Fergie would let him go without a plan. The only worry I would have is for Homegrown Players for europe and GCHQ has already made the case that it is not an issue.
Yes, losing O'Shea could be a loss at some point but I doubt Fergie would let him go without a plan. The only worry I would have is for Homegrown Players for europe and GCHQ has already made the case that it is not an issue.
You say left with like its a bad thing. If we were "left" with that then we'd still have five better defenders than O'Shea in the squad.
not when you see andy carroll is worth 35million and henderson is worth 20million.
If carroll is worth 35million surely wes is worth 25mill.
It most certainly would be a bad thing. If we were left with that in December/January we'd really struggle with rotation.
Not quite sure what you're getting at. Lucas has made those appearances for a side that has finished outside the top 4 for 2 seasons in a row.
Also, FWIW, Lucas was probably Liverpool's POTS these last 2 seasons. He's no World beater but he's incredibly under rated.
A really promising CM? I thought we were talking about Darron Gibson here?
Clearly a WUM
This story isnt true, it's been taken off a message board and spiralled. Jonny Evans is actually the third player and the combined fee is over 15million.