Unless I’m missing something it seems they always had the votes to veto the deal as a trio? It seems as if they unnecessarily went through plots to win back the company when all they had to do was vote together.
Television Succession
- Thread starter cyberman
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I think they we’re hoping to block the deal before it got to the vote which is why they sided with Mencken?
I don't think it was that badly written. At the summer house she's clearly not very fond of the idea, but logic and her anger over Mattsons betrayal get her over the line. Then they are relieved, push all the business concerns aside and just goof around, but then they get to the office, back to reality, and she realizes talking about it at the beach and seeing Ken sit in her father's chair are two fairly different things after all and then at the vote maybe she didn't like Ken's assertiveness and Roman's pause breaks the momentum and then the tally is six to six, it's all up to her and she can't do it. So there was a bit of setup leading up to this and her being jealous and spiteful wasn't just a random reaction, it has been her character all show long. And having their character flaws stand in the way of their own (and other's) success and happiness has been the central theme of the show.
Those seem to me like pretty weak reasons to give up the company your father built.
This is not really true, though. There are at least two instances of serious damage we've seen: Kendall betraying Logan in that press conference, which Logan never really got over. The second is Logan betraying the siblings to sell the company, which led to a six-month estrangement from Shiv and never resolved since he died.
The brothers were willing to sell out their country to stick it to Shiv. She then threw her all her moral principles regarding Mencken over board in an instance when she assumed it would get her the CEO job. So I don't think it's out of character to rather sell the company than see Ken run it, especially with Shiv probably thinking she's twice as smart as him and thus seething at the thought of him winning. I mean that's what the show was about in the end: for Tom everything was just business, that's why he won. For the siblings everything was personal and emotional and none of them really had the ability to reflect, so they all lost.
I don't think it's out of character. I just don't like the way it was written.
Like I said earlier: it's built as a twist. A character makes a sudden, last-minute switch so that we can all be shocked and the bottom can fall out of the lead's life in dramatic fashion. And then two minutes later the show ends.
They didn't have to do that. They could have had Shiv find out Tom will be the CEO immediately after finding out she wasn't, and then resolve everything at Caroline's. No twists. They all air it out, they can't convince Shiv.
Instead, we got Game of Thrones: Boardroom Edition, even though many have insisted that's not what the show ever was.
Enjoyed it. The three siblings finally started working together with genuine intentions for the first time ever but it lasted about half a day. Shiv is somehow the most selfish and entitled one of them and she couldn’t handle anointing Ken. She knows she’ll still get something out of it with Tom anyway. Roman just sways like the wind.
Loved the scene with them at their mum’s in the kitchen. I get that they’ve done a board vote scene before but I guess that kind of had to happen. They also revealed Tom would be CEO for that side quite early in the episode so it wouldn’t really call it a twist. It was just one of two possible outcomes.
Going to miss this show overall though. Nothing quite like it. It was never going to wrap up every plot line or character arc but it doesn’t need to.
Loved the scene with them at their mum’s in the kitchen. I get that they’ve done a board vote scene before but I guess that kind of had to happen. They also revealed Tom would be CEO for that side quite early in the episode so it wouldn’t really call it a twist. It was just one of two possible outcomes.
Going to miss this show overall though. Nothing quite like it. It was never going to wrap up every plot line or character arc but it doesn’t need to.
I think pregnancy with Tom's child was a factor but not the key reason. Of course the reading of why behind her decision is open to interoperation and hence why makes it a very good hinge to pivot a series ending on. I think her main reason was what she said out loud - she loves Kendall but can not stomach him. The whole sequence when they get back to the office required repeated viewings. Shiv's body language (Roman's too) changes as soon as Kendall takes the chair and starts acting like the big man. Part of her probably feels, with justification, she will be cut out again like last time once Kendall gets the vote. Part of her probably is just unable to accept Kendall getting what she wanted when she had him beat just a day ago. Then of course, the fact that it is her baby's father who gets to be CEO by default if Kendall does not get in, also helps.
I don't think all shows need to have death of a character as a definite ending for it. In any case, Succession is probably the prestige TV show in recent era to have a most definitive ending. Kendall pretty much said it himself that he might as well die if he did not get to follow in Logan's footsteps as he has always dreamt about. The final sequence need not be him about taking his own life but it showed an emotional death of sorts for him. He lost close to everything in this final quest to get what he wanted and still came up short, right at the end. From here on, he can try a lot of things but it is unlikely if not impossible that he would ever get similar positional as Waystar CEO again and probably equally unlikely to ever have a close relationship with his sibling again.
Don't think it is just about the President. Show kinda established that Matsson will need a puppet American CEO no matter what. Tom as yes man fills the role.
Shiv was right that Tom sucks the biggest dick in the room. That man has swallowed his pride (and his own jizz) more than anyone else.
Loved the finale myself. Thought it made a lot of sense and was fantastic television, one of the better series finales from top shows that I can remember. Easily better than the final episode of GoT and Breaking Bad for me. I think it's probably the best logical action from all the important characters, the three siblings to Tom, Greg, Mattson.
Exactly. This was foreshadowed when Logan said none of them are serious people. I would have thought it was more out of character if Shiv actually voted to block the deal and let Ken win.
Shiv and Roman accusing Kendall(who himself is suicidal) of being a murderer was the most disgusting moment of the show, but nothing you wouldn't expect from the kids. I didn't feel sorry for them, except Kendall in that situation, but then he's proved to be equally bad as those two so many times.
Roman turned into a completely sensitive baby in season 4, but he was the only one who was realistic("we are not real!").
I thought it was very good finale, in what was not so special season, IMO.
"You are not serious people" is my highlight sentence of the show.
Yep, Logan created awful human beings.
Roman turned into a completely sensitive baby in season 4, but he was the only one who was realistic("we are not real!").
I thought it was very good finale, in what was not so special season, IMO.
"You are not serious people" is my highlight sentence of the show.
Yep, Logan created awful human beings.
Surely intentional
Except that Michael wasn't a blubbering mess when things didn't go his way like Kendall did in the end. For what it's worth I had thought that it will be a Godfather like ending with Kendall in the Michael role but turned out it was classic misdirection.
Were you watching the same show as everyone else?
Kendal spent the entire season going behind her back?
That was a good way to end it! The patriarchy of Logan Roy finally gets its send off with the sale. That is a good conclusion.
What happens to the kids after that is irrelevant now. Some questions, sure. But, this was really about the end of Logan Roy and what he built. The killing of the Waystar Royco in the sale is the real ending that I needed.
What happens to the kids after that is irrelevant now. Some questions, sure. But, this was really about the end of Logan Roy and what he built. The killing of the Waystar Royco in the sale is the real ending that I needed.
Well don't know what show you were watching but in the show I was watching Kendall was pushing Roman to follow his lead to feck over the Gojo deal because he wants to be CEO instead of selling Waystar and then starting over with Pierce which is what the three of them planned to do. Shiv has always been clear about wanting that deal to go through until she got wind that they were trying to pull some bullshit.
I don’t mean his character. The shots and the framing etc are definitely intentional references IMO
Feel like I’ve had to spend the whole day avoiding spoilers. Has it even aired properly in the UK? They started talking about it on BBC news in the afternoon, which is just plain rude.
The ending made sense. It felt a little underwhelming but I thought the previous couple of episodes were amongst some of the best television I’ve ever watched. Maybe it’s a little unsatisfying because it’s left so open, whereas if the deal was blocked, we would know exactly what everyone would be doing.
The ending made sense. It felt a little underwhelming but I thought the previous couple of episodes were amongst some of the best television I’ve ever watched. Maybe it’s a little unsatisfying because it’s left so open, whereas if the deal was blocked, we would know exactly what everyone would be doing.
I think funnily enough it was Shiv who ended up making Tom's case for him when she said "he'd suck the biggest dick in the room" and that he's a highly interchangeable modular part. Seemed like the sort of thing Mattson would love for the puppet role.
It was on live and I'm pretty sure it was on demand too straight after, so yeah. I don't know, I've known about US air times for like 20 years now, so have accustomed myself to either knowing I'm opening myself to spoilers if I'm online or whatever. But I've noticed there's been a lot of uproar over spoilers with Succession this year, especially episode 3.... which to be fair, is probably the most important episode in the history of any TV to actually not be spoilered for in my opinion... there's no way it can hit the same, or even close having even an inkling of what's about to happen.
Yes not the only factor at all, I just think it is the key one from the series POV. Certainly she thinks he would be unbearable and also not good. I just think the pregnancy is key to tip the balance. There is a part of her that wants her husband and baby together more than the company, and voting against Tom would kill the possibility. They do make that fairly clear I think with the earlier scene with Tom, and they also highlight her vulnerability at key stages, like when she trips in one of the earlier episodes.
Wouldn't surprise me if they did a movie length sequel in a couple of years.
Tom's surname was well rumored so that was expected as soon as he told her to be honest.
Also the shortened name "Shiv" always indicated a back stabbing at some point.
Tom's surname was well rumored so that was expected as soon as he told her to be honest.
Also the shortened name "Shiv" always indicated a back stabbing at some point.
Shiv is the first one of the siblings to feck around with the deal. She is the first one who is receptive to pushing for Stewy/Sandi's plan for more money. Kendall and Roman are initially against it and Kendall joins after speaking with Mattson. Shiv was also willing, along with Kendall, to tank their initial plan ("The 100") in order to do a new one ("buy Pierce"). The new plan is not really "starting over", it's explicitly an attempt to feck their dad, plus they'd be in charge of what is essentially ATN's rival.
I bet he did 
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I dunno, people calling Shiv a cnut (which she is), I mean, she was right, she was the only one who copped that none of them were really capable of the CEO role. Then Roman knew she was right too.
Ultimately the 3 of them bickering in the board room and then literally fighting like children showed that none of them are up to it. Tom is an arse licker but he's been shown to be a competent business man, too.
It was a mess of a season in all honesty, just a bit all over the shop. Great TV but when you put it all together it was very messy. For all the hype about the show, season two was the only truly great season.
Ultimately the 3 of them bickering in the board room and then literally fighting like children showed that none of them are up to it. Tom is an arse licker but he's been shown to be a competent business man, too.
It was a mess of a season in all honesty, just a bit all over the shop. Great TV but when you put it all together it was very messy. For all the hype about the show, season two was the only truly great season.
Can we take a moment to talk about Roman licking the cheese
******* Walter as their mum was absolutely outstanding in all the scenes she ever had in the show. Nailed down that exact type of cold, posh Brit. It wasn’t just Logan that messed them up.
Scene of the seriesCan we take a moment to talk about Roman licking the cheese
Yeah we said the same. She’s basically a 70 year old Kiera Knightley too.
I liked it. But I need time to process whether I think that it's a masterpiece or just below that.
The ending made perfect sense and I like how it played out.
The ending made perfect sense and I like how it played out.
Nailed the landing for me.
It seems like they showed it in the UK at 2am last night, with a repeat at 9pm tonight (normal time for US shows over here). Not sure if they done that for the whole season.
I still think it’s unnecessary to be talking about it on the news etc. most people aren’t going to be watching at 2am and can’t watch first thing in the morning.
That’s a great shout.
Not far off.