I think Shiv also would have turned knowing Tom was going to be CEO therefore keeping her within power whereas with Kendall, she will get feck all.
Also Greg getting $200k as an assistant
Also Greg getting $200k as an assistant
Television Succession
- Thread starter cyberman
- Start date
The money isn't an issue. She definitely didn't make that decision to cash in and be done with it. The payout is almost irrelevant. Now Roman, for example, makes perfect sense. He doesn't want the job, he doesn't want the family feuding, and he doesn't want all the bullshit that comes with it. He's done. He's completely broken and checked out. So if we were talking about Roman here, then it would make much more sense. I actually think how it all ended with Roman was perfect.
In fact, you could make the argument that he was the "winner" here. Certainly more than the other two. He's out. His father is gone, and while that fecked him up, he doesn't have to be forever dealing with that toxic relationship. He's dropped his facade, he never wanted the job but couldn't admit it. So now he doesn't need to deal with that bullshit anymore. He's free. He's still a mess, but he's in a better place than the other two. I have no problem with how that arc ended. I think they did an incredible job there.
We are dealing with very capricious people here, no doubt. Shiv making that decision at the end is not completely out of character. We're not talking about a tonal handbrake turn here, but I just couldn't help but feel that it was slightly forced when it happened. I liked the episode a lot, but this was the one nagging thing that kept playing on my mind.
Veep, Silicon Valley....
I meant it’s an intentional reference. I don’t think they are suggesting that Kendall is like Michael Corleone.
First show in ages where I'm sad it's finished.
Feel like pure shit, just want them back x
Is there an AI beauty filter on their faces or something? Shiv looks like a Tekken 8 character.
Maybe it's from the first season? She's aged quite a bit since then. I was shocked to find out that she was only 34 years old during the filming of the last season.
I agree that money was essentially a non-factory. The difference between multi-billionaire and millionaire (hey, it could happen) is something to keep in mind though.
I agree on Roman. He will probably still deal with trauma going forward, but he clearly came out as the winner compared to Kendall and Shiv.
Fair enough. I think it's perfectly within Shiv's character, but I can understand that it felt abrupt too.
I never got the Michael Corleone thing people were going on about with Kendall.
He was as far away from the character as you can possibly get.
As you say he is far more closer to Fredo in how he continually screwed up and how annoyed Fredo was about always being ignored when it came to the running things.
Shiv has come out of this all horribly. In the space of 24 hours she's gone from thinking she'd manipulated her way into the big job to being relegated to wife of the CEO, and she's lost all of the high ground that she loved to weild over Tom.
Funnily enough I think she's come out of it the best of the siblings. She wanted to get back with Tom for the baby, and she didn't want Kendell or Roman as CEO. Tom is basically a puppet she can manipulate as she wants, now. Obviously not getting CEO was a kick in the teeth but overall she did pretty well.
No way she came out better than Roman. He was the only one smiling at the end. It all turned out perfectly for him. He did not want the CEO job nor the inevitable family feuds that were to follow with Kendall in charge. He just didn't have the guts to actually say it out loud. Shiv did the dirty work for him and now he can proceed as a multi-billionaire playboy minus Logan's looming presence, just like he was always meant to.
Kendall clearly came out on bottom, though.
Disagree with this. Used and thrown away by Mattson and outplayed by Tom for another time. Even Tom when asked did he want to have another go with her said he didn't know. Points to me that Tom is now in the power position in that couple and not Shiv. Also didn't she drink champagne when pregnant, clearly doesn't give a feck.
Cool detail from Reddit that I completely forgot about:
I think that Kendall's biggest mistake was to appoint Roman rather then Shiv as COO. Roman never wanted power, after his dad's death he was a train wreck and he had messed up more times then he could count. Yet Kendall chose him over Shiv. Why should the latter believe in him when he refused to believe in her?
Going to offer a different view
a bit underwhelming that final season for me. Great moments - the death episode was superb, the Shiv/Tom moments were raw and fantastic....The show really missed Logan after his exit.
.. he was a gargantuan figure in the show tjough.
Just thought the whole takeover back and forth never really got that contentious or exciting, there was no major backstabbing or foul play between the siblings, just their horrible characters laid bare.
Succession esentially is a comedy as much as it is a drama at times and the focus for me would have been better served if it had a more serious tone for the end of the season episodes.
Honestly at the end I didnt really care what happened. Maybe because the characters are such horrible humam beings. Maybe Im missing the point of the writing where you like a character then reminded how much of a shit they are....
a decent finale to a great series. I just missed the tension and anticipation you felt at the end of a show like Sopranos, Breaking Bad or Ozark.
.. he was a gargantuan figure in the show tjough.
Just thought the whole takeover back and forth never really got that contentious or exciting, there was no major backstabbing or foul play between the siblings, just their horrible characters laid bare.
Succession esentially is a comedy as much as it is a drama at times and the focus for me would have been better served if it had a more serious tone for the end of the season episodes.
Honestly at the end I didnt really care what happened. Maybe because the characters are such horrible humam beings. Maybe Im missing the point of the writing where you like a character then reminded how much of a shit they are....
a decent finale to a great series. I just missed the tension and anticipation you felt at the end of a show like Sopranos, Breaking Bad or Ozark.
Shiv is screwed. A baby she doesn't seem to want by a husband she doesn't seem to like very much. Their relationship for her was built on Tom being her bitch and her holding all of the cards. Hard to see any kind of future where someone as cruel and cold as she is will be happy.
Even Kendal, as devastated as he is right now, has better prospects of future happiness IMO. He's been the most tortured soul throughout so this isn't new ground for him. It might even be the best thing for him. He would never have filled Logans shoes
So now that’s it finished, for those of us who still haven’t started watching… is it one of the absolute best shows of the past 20 years, a must watch?
Yes
Yes.
Yes.
Yes
Yeah, the finale and final season sealed it as one of the all-time great shows.
I think Tom becoming the CEO and Shiv getting backstabbed weren't huge surprises, and was quite realistic in their universe.
However, wasn't a fan of Shiv having a change of heart at the last moment. Would have preferred had they shown some conversation between Tom and Shiv around how she benefits by voting against Ken, at the end
However, wasn't a fan of Shiv having a change of heart at the last moment. Would have preferred had they shown some conversation between Tom and Shiv around how she benefits by voting against Ken, at the end
Yes.
But why though? It wasn’t a mutual decision between Tom and Shiv.
Tom made his move and had all the power. Shiv realised late what her only option was and Kendall’s behaviour leading up to the vote played a big part in her realising that. She could probably have been persuaded but Ken didn’t have the ability to be persuasive with her, he’s too arrogant and entitled and he had nothing to offer her other than it being his destiny and she needs to understand what it means to him. That’s not how you cut through to a fellow narcissist.
Yes. Best show since Mad Men for me. Only problem is it's so good it makes almost all other shows seem like pure cringe in comparison.
You’re joking right?
Breaking Bad was better; but then it’s better than every show ever made.
I think it makes a lot of sense that Shiv just can’t stomach her brother being the boss.
12 hours earlier she’d just had the rug pulled from under her. One minute she’s bragging about being the next boss, the next she’s kicked to the side without an explanation. It’s only in that moment with no cards to play that she reluctantly accepts backing Ken as the only alternative, aside from murdering him.
After she stews on it a little while and imagines what the future holds with megalomaniac Ken lording it over them, those thoughts creep back in. That becomes a bit more real as Ken steps into that insufferable role in the room.
Every bone in her body is saying she needs to payback Mattson and rule out the possibility of her being inferior to Tom, but she’s there looking at Ken with a pit in her stomach. She can’t be the one to crown him, even if the alternative is sitting in Tom’s shadow while he sucks up to the man who just stabbed her in the back.
There’s a lot about it that would be visceral emotion overcoming rational decision making in the moment. It did feel less satisfying, but totally plausible.
No, but the top 25 is pretty fluid, so it might even make... I don't know 15th? It's not going to be higher than that, but I might change my mind on a rewatch.
It’s easily top 3 for me.
Yep.
I'd go top 10.
Whoa nelly.
Always thought making a top 10 was too hard. Better off doing it by genres.