So you're still singing the song that UTD will not qualify for CL next season.
Strikers we could buy?
- Thread starter Walters_19_MuFc
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So you're still singing the song that UTD will not qualify for CL next season.
That's not what I said.
I hope Ibra signing taking the second year won't see us ignore the striker position in the market this summer, after a Carrick replacement it's our most important buy.
Benzema would be perfect for us. Phenomenal movement and positional awareness, able both to score and assist.
He's 28 and I doubt that Real will sell
I think that will happen which I agree completely with Mou upon. We've got Rashford and Martial in the role. Lets give them a chance.
We've got other issues to take care off which include a quality CB (Smalling is a bit of the hodor of football, big, tough but dumb), some quality on the flanks and Carrick's replacement.
Best years, he's in his peak. Think they would consider selling him especially since Moratta is knocking at the door and he's their academy player. Their transfer ban is an issue tho.
No point in going in the same circles dev, Martial isn't going to be used as a striker and Rashford doesn't have the attributes Jose likes in a #9, it's why he uses them wide, and we are playing inside forwards with the FB's providing width, we wont be getting some touchline hugger like it's 1995. We have Mata, Mkhi, Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Rooney and the returning Pereira for the 3 interchangeable forward roles behind the #9, we need to get a #9 that can hold the ball up and link play but who's a lot quicker and more mobile than Ibra, otherwise we'll just repeat this season.
Maybe Mou is changing. If he doesn't he will end up being found out pretty soon. Tactics change and managers have to change with them.
The demise in popularity of the typical touchline hugger has made the big dumb goal poacher less needed. Ok there's still a gap between a RVN and a Martial/Rashford but you have to admit they both have an eye to goal.
In my opinion, I think the striker role as we know it is becoming obsolete. The next generation of strikers are more like Griezmann, Rashford, Dybala, Berardi, Morata and Martial ie players who consistently drop deep and switch roles. Lets say we play in a 4-2-3-1 system with Martial, Rashford, Mkhitaryan and Griezmann upfront. At one point Griezmann will be striker with the rest playing at his back. After 20 minutes Martial ends up striker with Griezmann on the left. Then Mkhitaryan switch on the right, Martial moves back on the left, Rashford becomes a striker and Griezmann switch as no 10. That would be an absolute nightmare for defenders to defend against.
The typical striker who holds the ball and score goals is dying out. In my opinion we should go for someone like Berardi whose perfectly comfortable as RW and as a striker and wouldn't cost us an arm and a leg. That is the future mate
That's basically false number 9 tactics put inside 4-2-3-1 with number 10.
In my opinion that is the future. We've already have most of the players in place. Mata (RW, AMC), Pogba (freak of nature), Mkhitaryan (RW, LW, AMC), Martial (AML, STK), Rashford (AMR, STK).
Id say we need to strengthen the backbone.
A top quality CB (Gimenez?)
A top quality DM (Weigl?)
A top quality winger/striker (Berardi?)
and we're done.
the rest will be building the quality strength in depth and for the future (Valencia replacement for example~)
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Gotta admit it would be frightening especially with number 10 like Griezmann who can play pretty much any position up front. There would be no need for striker dropping down for hold up and link up game.
Big problem IMO is how to fit Pogba in a MF duo and free roaming front 4 with number 10 included. I'm afraid we would be wasting him. Because we know he loves to roam around as well.
I don't rate Gimenez that high TBH. In that system i would rader have the likes of Laporte or Varane. MF Wiegl but only if he gains some muscle, Bender brothers seem to have been forgotten. Striker gotta be Benzema especially since in Madrid he's always switching sides, he plays any position when Bale and mostly Ronaldo go in the middle.
I must admit that concept really looks good.
I think the idea that anything truly dies out is wide of the mark, for instance Atleti and Leicester used a 4-4-2 recently to great effect, and I don't see coaches like Jose and Simeone ditching their focal point striker. There's also a huge gap between big dumb goal poacher and a powerful, technically good, athletic #9 that can hold up and link play, players like Ibra, Lewandowski and Benzema, or even young talents coming through like Dolberg and Andre Silva show the continued refining of that traditional role, evolution rather than extinction.
Jose is allowing the 4 in the 4-1-4-1 we've started using to rotate with each other, for instance we saw all 4 central and wide on both flanks last night, same with Herrera when he was in the line-up against Arsneal, in fact our goal came from him making a channel run and Mata coming inside switching positions. However he still likes the reference point up top, same reason Simeone still uses Torres for Griezmann and Carrasco to play off.
To me we have the players for the 4 roles in behind the #9, we just lack the #9 outside of a player who will be 36 next season.
Mate but Leicester and Atletico spend most of their time laying back and waiting for a quick counter. Their positional attacks are non existent against tougher opposition. Imagine us playing that kind of ultra defensive football especially after the dull football we produced under LVG.
Well I'd imagine it would be similar to this
-----------------DDG------------
Valencia--Bailly--Gimenez-----Shaw
----------------Weigl--------------
---------Herrera--------------------
--------------------Pogba------------
Mkhitaryan--------------------Martial-
----------------Griezmann-------------
I still think we should go for Berardi. He's at Sassuolo and he shouldn't be costing us an arm and a foot (although Juventus and Inter are now circling around the boy like vultures).
Ibra is 35, Lewandowski, Benzema and Higuian are 28. The rest play in leagues were Rojo and Mangala were considered top CBs and Depay used to score bucket loads of goals.
The future are players like Dybala, Morata, Griezmann, Neymar, Martial etc. Players that constantly change roles rather then being a focal point. If the special one doesn't want to be remembered as the obsolete one then he'll better adapt
TBH i don't see this ever happening under Mourinho, he simply ain't that tactical genius offensive wise.
Juventus still has advantage over any other club on Berardi, right? They added that clause when they sold their half of his contract to Sassuolo.
There's always an option in getting some DMF that isn't as good on the ball as Carrick is and switching Herrera with a genuine playmaker like Veratti is.
I don't see us buying any strikers in Jan, we will buy one for next season but he'll stick with what he has this season. If we buy anything in Jan it will be a defender. He still doesn't trust certain defenders and I don't think we are as solid as he'd like. Even in yesterdays game, they had chances at nil each to score, better teams would.
That wasn't my point though, I am not saying we should adopt that style, I was just saying that nothing is obsolete if you set your team up the right way with the right personnel.
As FB says its complicated.
Berardi was once co-owned by Juventus. However the laws has changed and Juventus created a mess out of it.
http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2015/6/26/8850531/why-juventus-sold-domenico-berardi-to-sassuolo
This give an insight to what's happening. If we bid enough for Sassuolo to forget about their allegiance to Juventus then we'll sign him up
Yeah it's a hot mess. Remember that Inter wanted to buy him this summer but Juventus said no because of that clause even if they don't own his contract.
Andre Silva and Dolberg are to be dismissed because they play in Portugal and Holland? Serie A isn't so hot either outside of Juve and players who are good in that league struggle to travel well, I don't think it's a case of changing to follow the crowd like sheep, it's a case of getting the finest versions of what you want for your system.
4 in behind - Martial, Mata, Mkhitaryan, Pogba, Herrera, Rashford, Pereira, Rooney and Lingard.
That's 9 options for 4 positions and hopefully we'll sell Rooney and add a quality option in his palce, but it leaves us with one true #9 for the system, which is why we need to add one along with a DM and CB. We might also be looking at a more dynamic LB option as well since Jose wants the attacking width to come from the fullback positions.
Sure you can but it all depends of the style of football you wanna play. Leicester and Atletico style gives results and brings them new fans but only because everyone loves a good rags to riches story when a little guy sticks it to the big bullies. If we tried the same style we would get scrutinised for it.
Sure, I guess it depends on how the results went though. My point was just that there are ways to make all kinds of systems and play styles work. I like the fluid forward lines that Barca, Dortmund and Liverpool play, I just don't see Jose ever going for that, he likes that reference point up top and that needn't be seen as a negative.
I am not dismissing anyone really. I am just giving some perception to things. I guess even Rooney can score plenty of goals were Depay is star and the best CBs are the likes of Mangala and Rojo.
The Serie A golden age is long over. However it is still an incredibly tactical and defensive minded league which makes it very difficult for strikers to score goals. The likes of Manolas, Bonucci, Khoubaly and Chiellini would eat the likes of Hodo erm Smalling, the 50m something rated CB whose only good in passing the ball and co for breakfast.
I still insist that we're better off bringing in top quality wingers/forwards who would allow us to play Rashford/Martial in their role. However that's me.
The way Juventus are treating Berardi is frigging strange. Maybe Juventus feel that the boy might have a big personality, something Juventus had always hated in players. Some say that Berardi reminds them of good old Roby Baggio which Juventus have a love hate relationship with.
I see nothing wrong in tempting Sassuolo with a 30m fee and see what happens. Who knows maybe Juventus would give the go ahead.
You're right, truly bizarre. They can't use him but don't want anyone else to get him.
I am not dismissing anyone really. I am just giving some perception to things. I guess even Rooney can score plenty of goals were Depay is star and the best CBs are the likes of Mangala and Rojo.
The Serie A golden age is long over. However it is still an incredibly tactical and defensive minded league which makes it very difficult for strikers to score goals. The likes of Manolas, Bonucci, Khoubaly and Chiellini would eat the likes of Hodo erm Smalling, the 50m something rated CB whose only good in passing the ball and co for breakfast.
I still insist that we're better off bringing in top quality wingers/forwards who would allow us to play Rashford/Martial in their role. However that's me.
The example of Smalling and Stones just shows that you can't judge a league's players based off the league as a whole, I think we should keep an open mind and scout the individuals attributes rather than their stats. You keep talking about the flanks but there is zero indication that Jose wants to use those type of players, he wants the 3 in behind the #9 to be a blend of AM/#8/#10/IF. Martial and Rashford are well equipped to compete for a spot in that quartet behind the #9, better than they are to lead the line and provide the focal point.
It has to be Mauro Icardi for me. Pacy, strong, good movement and great technique. Always seems to score when I watch him play as well (4 or 5 times).
I cannot see past this guy and I believe he is very gettable. Heads up Woody!
I cannot see past this guy and I believe he is very gettable. Heads up Woody!
We have no idea what Mou has in mind apart from wanting Ibra to stay. Maybe he thinks that he's the ideal stopgap that will allow time for Rashford/Martial to grow in the role. I also think that the focal type of striker will soon be phased out. That's all
PS when was the last time Portugal had a quality striker? (Ronaldo started as a winger)
You can see the system we are building, the pieces used in it, Ibra and Carrick are essential either side of the attacking 4, their skill sets are not covered by anyone in the current squad, it's why we are still using them at 35.
Rashford and Martial are never gonna be able to do what Ibra does and while you might see the role of a proper #9 dfying out I doubt Jose sees it that way, and I don't think it's true either as there are several quality yoiung #9's in the mold coming through right now, one of which we should nab.
Ibra is unique tbf. There's very few players like him. In my opinion, Ibra was brought to paper the cracks and rally the troops. A bit like what Cantona did when the class of 92 took over.
Not really, Cantona was only 25 when he came here and gave us 5 prime seasons, Ibra is 35 and we are pushing it trying to get 2 passable seasons out of him. However think Drogba, Benzema and Costa, these are Jose #9's, not quite as refined as Ibra but with a lot to their game, not just target lumps. This is the type of #9 I see Jose always using and we don't have one to understudy Ibra, same as we don't have any proper cover/competition for Carrick, we don't need more floaty versatile forwards or Box to box CM's IMO, we need a proper #9 and a proper #6. to prepare under Carrick and Ibra, we are already taking a risk using those 2 for next season IMO
I agree and hence why it failed. However I don't believe we need a striker like Drogba or Benzema. What we need is to give space to Martial/Rashford upfront and maybe add a goalscoring winger/striker to add goals to the team.
PS there's not many Benzemas and Costas around.
Agree. We should be signing successors to both tbh. Or just let Martial and Rashford compete for the #9 spot, in which case we need to sign a great winger/wide forward instead.
The 2 you want to put up front can't hold the ball up or bring others into play, it negates the use of the 4 in behind and their rotation, the focal point is important as the attacking reference. As for whether there are Benzema's or Costa's around, I think Andre Silva is very similar to both in how he plays, much more suited to being the #9 than Rashford or Martial, who are better off playing behind the #9 and using their pace and running with the ball to stretch teams and run beyond.
I think Rashford and Martial will remain as wide attackers under Jose, they both just need to learn to make better runs like Mata and Mkhitaryan showed last night.
Andre Silva is rumoured to be rated 60m. Also he doesn't seem a very technical player. Its one thing scoring goals against Andorra and the Faroe Islands and its another thing scoring against teams who actually have defenders in them
He did scored a goal against Roma though........a penalty
You are again equating league and attributes, they aren't the same thing. If you've watched Andre Silva you'd know his technical level is good, he's not silky smooth like Dolberg but he is very similar to Costa in this regard and has tremendous strength and workrate.
How many goals against top sides had this 60m rated striker scored though? I know that Im being pedantic but 60m is quite a big lump of money
There's no way we'd actually pay the €60M for him, the deal would be structured the same way Martial, Dembele and Renato Sanches' deals were done, all players with one senior season under their belts when they were bought.