Being slow doesn't bother me, it's the players holding the ball for five seconds, looking up, taking their time, and then accurately passing the ball straight at an opposition player, that one bothers me.
Static, slow motion zombie passing
- Thread starter noodlehair
- Start date
Was a thoroughly disturbing performance today. Cracking end to the game, but feck me that was really bad! 
I think even Fergie looked a bit shaken up during his interview with Sky. It's annoying reading over the match day thread constantly seeing "Welbeck is shite", "Carrick is shite", etc, mind. The players are clearly good enough and have demonstrated this already - there just seems to be some sort of huge collective mental situation at the moment.
Fergie would not aim to build a team to play this. He's not going to go and say to the players, "right lads, some slow motion zombie passing today please. Don't move towards the players, don't ask for the ball and, whatever you do, don't run with the ball."
I think even Fergie looked a bit shaken up during his interview with Sky. It's annoying reading over the match day thread constantly seeing "Welbeck is shite", "Carrick is shite", etc, mind. The players are clearly good enough and have demonstrated this already - there just seems to be some sort of huge collective mental situation at the moment.
Fergie would not aim to build a team to play this. He's not going to go and say to the players, "right lads, some slow motion zombie passing today please. Don't move towards the players, don't ask for the ball and, whatever you do, don't run with the ball."
This is getting really annoying now. We have an embarrassing amount of attacking options, yet they all just seem to stand there and expect stuff to just happen. RVP apart, no one makes any runs.
This attack could potentially be breathtaking, Fergie needs to get them to click, and soon.
This attack could potentially be breathtaking, Fergie needs to get them to click, and soon.
RVP must be wondering why he left Arsenal. What a player though, and we are lucky to have him. Would be nice to have a midfielder, other than Scholes, who can pass to him.
Steady on, let's not have too big of an over-reaction.
Very pedestrian performance today but it will get better.... I hope
I thought the movement off the ball was awful today. Van Persie was basically the only one making any decent runs.
And Carrick is definitely having his annual "look pedestrian/shite for two months at the start of the season"-act.
He took 4 or 5 touches every single time he got on the ball. Bad movement, and dallying on the ball, in turn makes for a horrible passing performance. No wonder our accuracy was off.
Some positives: At least this time we had some urgency to our game when we really needed it. As opposed to just pretending we're not going to lose and going out on a whimper. We notched up the tempo a bit when Scholes came on, and it paid dividends due to Southampton really being a bit shit.
And Carrick is definitely having his annual "look pedestrian/shite for two months at the start of the season"-act.
He took 4 or 5 touches every single time he got on the ball. Bad movement, and dallying on the ball, in turn makes for a horrible passing performance. No wonder our accuracy was off.
Some positives: At least this time we had some urgency to our game when we really needed it. As opposed to just pretending we're not going to lose and going out on a whimper. We notched up the tempo a bit when Scholes came on, and it paid dividends due to Southampton really being a bit shit.
Southampton were not a bit shit. Tired at the end when Scholes came on, but not shit.
The sad thing is that we only started playing when Scholes came on.
The defending in their box for all of our goals were fecking wank, as it was for their pen, for the chance that RvP sidefooted wide and as it was for Evra's header in the first half.
If we had played with a bit of tempo, and gotten more balls into their box through Valencia/the non existant left winger they would have crumbled early enough.
Urgency and their ineptitude inside their own box won us that match. Basically every time we got Valencia in a decent position we had a goalscoring opportunity.
So yeah, they werew quite shit at the back. Yeah, they pressed us a bit in midfield, and no, we didn't cope well with it, but this was as much to do with every one of our midfielders using 6 touches on average as it was with them being any good - which they weren't.
I think one of the main problems was that there seemed to be no real understanding in the build up. With Welbeck looking to come inside all the time it meant we needed width from Evra, however because Clev also pushed up so high it just meant that there were too many gaps. If you compare to say City, then they have two players in Toure and Barry/rodwell who keep things ticking and give the basis for the likes of silva, nasri, Clichy, Richards etc to get forward.
Today as I said we had Kagawa, Clev and Welbeck who all ended up in the same areas of the pitch more or less in each others way. Clev's lack of discipline left Carrick covering the whole midfield at times and meant that when Evra did go forward we had some big gaps to exploit. There was little movement behind their defence outside of RVP, with Valencia holding his width and Welbeck being both narrow and relatively deep. It just seemed a mesh of a number of attacking approaches.
When the changes were made the attack was a lot more coherent. You had two wingers, two forwards and two midfielders. People stuck to their roles and we benefited as a result. There's nothing wrong with trying to add extra dimensions to the attack but it has to be balanced. Last season I think we fell down at times due to lack of balance and today was a similar problem.
Today as I said we had Kagawa, Clev and Welbeck who all ended up in the same areas of the pitch more or less in each others way. Clev's lack of discipline left Carrick covering the whole midfield at times and meant that when Evra did go forward we had some big gaps to exploit. There was little movement behind their defence outside of RVP, with Valencia holding his width and Welbeck being both narrow and relatively deep. It just seemed a mesh of a number of attacking approaches.
When the changes were made the attack was a lot more coherent. You had two wingers, two forwards and two midfielders. People stuck to their roles and we benefited as a result. There's nothing wrong with trying to add extra dimensions to the attack but it has to be balanced. Last season I think we fell down at times due to lack of balance and today was a similar problem.
I'm not sure you should have started this thread noodle.
I mean, Carrick is basically degenerating even more by the day. His hair is starting to turn grey, his face has become about three inches longer than last season, and he now uses 7 touches on average as opposed to his patented 5-for-the-start-of-the-season approach. Zombification indeed.
Next he's going to eat a chunk out of Anderson - not sure that would be a bad thing mind you.
I mean, Carrick is basically degenerating even more by the day. His hair is starting to turn grey, his face has become about three inches longer than last season, and he now uses 7 touches on average as opposed to his patented 5-for-the-start-of-the-season approach. Zombification indeed.
Next he's going to eat a chunk out of Anderson - not sure that would be a bad thing mind you.
Carrick on form plays a lot of first-time passes. When he thinks too much he fecks it up. I suspect he's very intelligent as a footballer, but a somewhat thickheaded dopey Geordie spanner in other respects. When he has time to think, he thinks, "Why aye, right, pass it, like, Mike, and let's see if we can't just scoor a guwal, oh feck I've been tackled by Jeruam Thomas like."
I bet he struggles an awful lot while delivering letters in his full time job. He probably chooses the wrong route while delivering them, and stops at about 5 different spots before getting close enough to the mailbox for him to put the letters in.
Thinking about it, his work as a postman during the summer is probably the reason he manages not to keep himself fit for the start of the season, and subsequently using the first two months of every single one applying for a role as an extra in Walking Dead.
The problem is not the passing so much, I think the bigger problem is the complete lack of movement when we have the ball. I mean, there are no forward runs, no sideways movement, outside the penalty box. This means that the build-up are slow, and 'zombie-like'.
It's easy to blame Carrick, I do, and have criticised him. The greater problem is the lack of movement for players around him, who seemingly are never making themselves available, with any effort or speed. This results, in Carrick, being an intelligent footballer to pass sideways or backwards because there is no option. Sadly Carrick, and none of our players except for Anderson like the run at the opposition.
It's easy to blame Carrick, I do, and have criticised him. The greater problem is the lack of movement for players around him, who seemingly are never making themselves available, with any effort or speed. This results, in Carrick, being an intelligent footballer to pass sideways or backwards because there is no option. Sadly Carrick, and none of our players except for Anderson like the run at the opposition.
It's both.
No movement plus 7 touches per player=zombiemania.
Stop it guys. Just fecking stop it.
Isn't that why we signed Kagawa?
i don't think he'll ever have that thought. scholes came on at the perfect time when southampton had tired (or were instructed to sit back) and had pretty much stopped pressing. the lads had time to string passes together without being harassed much.
Yeah I bet he's distraught about being above Arsenal in the league and at only having scored four goals in 2 a bit games for his new team.
He's really must be crying into his cornflakes every morning.
To be fair in the last match a lot of the problem was our 'tactics' - Welbeck wasn't taking up good positions at all on the left side of the pitch, mostly cause he's not a player that should be out there. That made us predictable and S'Hampton did well to move the midfield to focus on Valencia and Rafael.
I just don't understand why our coaching staff are so desperate to make things difficult. First match with a first choice defence, Rooney out so, um, why not play two wide players wide, Kagawa through the middle, Carrick/Clev as the two. Easy. Balanced.
Before the match the morons on Fox Soccer Channel were saying how Southampton will be looking to play long diagonals to Lambert at the back post. What do we do within 15 minutes? Leave Rafael on a one-on-one against Lambert at the back post. With Rio and Vidic marking...no one because only Lambert was up front.
Perhaps it's more for the 'what does Mike Phelan do' thread - but I do wonder who in the back room is watching footage from the past 12 months and working out how to fix our issues. Cause they're pretty much the same every match.
What I personally (and I assume most fans) find most infuriating is how basic a lot of our issues are. We knew what Southampton would try to do, yet we didn't look to have a strategy to try and counter it.
I just don't understand why our coaching staff are so desperate to make things difficult. First match with a first choice defence, Rooney out so, um, why not play two wide players wide, Kagawa through the middle, Carrick/Clev as the two. Easy. Balanced.
Before the match the morons on Fox Soccer Channel were saying how Southampton will be looking to play long diagonals to Lambert at the back post. What do we do within 15 minutes? Leave Rafael on a one-on-one against Lambert at the back post. With Rio and Vidic marking...no one because only Lambert was up front.
Perhaps it's more for the 'what does Mike Phelan do' thread - but I do wonder who in the back room is watching footage from the past 12 months and working out how to fix our issues. Cause they're pretty much the same every match.
What I personally (and I assume most fans) find most infuriating is how basic a lot of our issues are. We knew what Southampton would try to do, yet we didn't look to have a strategy to try and counter it.
Second week of the season with an injury crisis in defense and new players in the first team not to mention a host of young players in important roles. Things will only get better and our opponents will get worn down as injuries and matches pile up.
Time and coaching will heal our defensive problems, and crispness of passing and speed of play take time as well.
It's not as if this is the first slow start to a season or our first time to see United explode into form over Christmas and New Year.
Time and coaching will heal our defensive problems, and crispness of passing and speed of play take time as well.
It's not as if this is the first slow start to a season or our first time to see United explode into form over Christmas and New Year.
2 wins out 3 is still a good start I think
Agree we have no pattern of play whatsoever in a 433 it's obvious when we go back to a 442 it's get the ball out wide and let the full backs overlap and our passing speeds up as players don't have to think about what to do and everybody is in position. It's been an obvious ploy by Fergie to play more through the middle with Kagawa but I can't see why when ironed out we can't blend our biggest strengths (wings) with playing through the middle
I think the 433 or 4231 however you view it can work but against Southampton it just failed and I think it was misty due to individual players. It performing as they should. Welbeck isn't particularly comfortable in wide areas but you know he can do better then that and should have had the intelligence to make runs across the defence. Nani or young are better fits there though. In the middle though was the real problem where I really don't know what clev was thinking. He vacated centre mid to go play attacking mid pretty much, kagawa was having to do a lot of dropping back in that first half which he didn't look comfortably with and didn't really make sense. I'm hoping it was just a blip.
Is everyone at the club completely and utterly thick or something? Why are we STILL doing this?
Doing what? Wong sloppy on the ball at times, mostly due to individual errors?
Oh common we started quite well in this game but slacked off towards the end, but we weren't really bad.
They're pressing us in possession and our players are just standing still passing it backwards and forwards to each other until they just take the ball away or there's no one not marked left to pass to. I've never seen anything so fecking stupid.
"Oh look, they're trying to close down the space, I'd better stand perfectly still so they can't catch up with me"
"Oh look, they're trying to close down the space, I'd better stand perfectly still so they can't catch up with me"
This was happening exactly the same in the first half against Wigan too. We've got a team of complete fecking morons...even by footballer standards.
I think our passing and movement's been quite slick. The problems have come off the ball, where they've sliced through us, due to Fergie being racist against centre midfielders.
Scholes has given the ball away three times, which is bizarre, and Nani and Tony have been shite. But I'm not seeing what you're seeing here noods.
Scholes has given the ball away three times, which is bizarre, and Nani and Tony have been shite. But I'm not seeing what you're seeing here noods.
There was one moment when Gala had a counter attack and instead of covering the space, Scholes ran up the pitch instead, utterly bizarre.
Maybe he's gone blind again. Never mind, he's still our best player when he can't see.
There were about ten seperate periods of play where we literally all stood still passing the ball to each other...and then gave it away because their players all just moved and stood in front of ours...and then they just ran forwards with it each time.
In fact, they keep getting in behind our midfield and fullbacks by just watching us spazz around for a bit and then kicking the ball along the ground towards our goal.
Any decent team with half a clue would be wiping us all over the fecking floor.
The Carrick to Scholes to Carrick to Scholes to Evans to Carrick to Scholes to Evans to Carrick passing route was infuriating.
We played a lot of really good stuff between Nani, Kagawa, and Rafael, Evra. Welbeck too when he came on.
We played a lot of really good stuff between Nani, Kagawa, and Rafael, Evra. Welbeck too when he came on.
The warning signs are there.
We play Scholes and Carrick against any half way decent team that will press in midfield and we'll end up getting fecked.
Scholes is a great player, but his days of playing 2 games in a week and against champions league opposition is over. I'm not sure SAF knows this yet though...
We play Scholes and Carrick against any half way decent team that will press in midfield and we'll end up getting fecked.
Scholes is a great player, but his days of playing 2 games in a week and against champions league opposition is over. I'm not sure SAF knows this yet though...
I find arguments like that funny, as there are plenty of teams with smart managers who can't seem to wipe the floor with us. I saw plenty of good passing play out there. No team in the world is always switched "on" all game. When we attacked, we looked very good. I'd complain about the finishing rather than the passing today.
You make it sound like it's intentional, as if Fergie tells everyone just before going out "alright lads, play some zombie football."
It's not as simple as turning on a switch in our heads and we'll start playing great, incisive football. We're not as good as you want us to be at this moment, i.e. play great, entertaining, high tempo football every game.
If I turn this thread into one about actual zombies will it get locked or will I be banned instead?
Eh? No Zombie passing tonight.
Our linkup play was pretty good in the attacking third.