Static, slow motion zombie passing

some of the attacking play against everton in the 4-4 was pretty good, and that was this year. we played pretty well against arsenal too,but i see your point in as in we just tried to control the game when we were ahead, and then only started to attack once they equalized.

there was a time when we just never stopped trying to score, like the 6-2 against newcastle in 2002-03 season or the 3-0 against Everton where it 0-0 till the 86th minute and the we had a Scholes hatrick.
 
Villa at home only ended up being easy because Young dived to win a penalty early on, if I recall?

Everton at home was an awful performance and we definitely did the zombie passing/slow ball out to the winger thing away to Arsenal. That game was one of the prime examples of it...we only won because Valencia got bored with it and detonated himself (see also, Blackburn away).

Seriously, I can't think of a single game where we played with a proper attacking flow or tempo, in the entire calendar year, which is extremely frustrating when we have one of the best sets of attacking players in the world.

Come on, Everton home was a dreadful defensive performance but our attacking play in the second half was brilliant. I thought we did pretty well in attack at the Emirates, too, but maybe you have higher expectations.
 
Actualy, just watching a bit of the Villa game back and yeah, we were a lot better in that one...though there's still an awful lot of players standing still. All the movement is coming via one player (Welbeck), who for some reason it seems no one on the Villa team bothered to pick up.
 
Come on, Everton home was a dreadful defensive performance but our attacking play in the second half was brilliant. I thought we did pretty well in attack at the Emirates, too, but maybe you have higher expectations.

The first half against Everton was pathetic. We actually literally just stood still, then we played well for patches of the second. Less than half a game doesn't constitute a good performance.

The Arsenal game was one of the main games in which this annoyed me. They were a non entity in that game. We should have trounced them and instead turned it into a trudge. If they'd played how they did at home to Spurs or City I can't see how they wouldn't have just rolled us over.

And again, in both games, Welbeck crops up as the one and only player providing the movement and alternative.
 
You're doing your usual massive exaggeration shtick that you do a lot.

We had some very good spells, first and second half, against Everton. Once they scored it all got massively congested in the final third and their back four played really well, so we created very little. Apart from that, we played decent, fluid attacking football whenever we weren't getting beasted by Fellaini.
 
You mean the game on Monday? They were the better team in both halves. We were mostly one dimensional and boring, apart from Kagawa, and looked like we weren't ready for the season to start. We had that one good spell about five minutes after they scored. Other than that the whole game looked a struggle.


I'd just like to also point out that in the 35th minute against Villa, Antonio Valencia has quite possibly the worst shot on goal in the history of football. It somehow diappears up off the top of the screen, and in a direction completely adjacent to the goal. Also on this evidence, he needs to be put back on the wing.
 
I think the zombicity was particularly bad in contrast to just how amazing we looked for the first five games. We looked like we'd stepped up to something really special.

In its own terms, our football last season wasn't as bad as you're making out. It was certainly no classic United side, and yes sometimes a bit dull, and we got lucky quite a lot, and overall City played the better football. But we were still pretty effective, impressively so given the injuries.
 
I'd also add that our football last season was still a lot better than in 2008/09 or 2010/11. Which sorts of supports noodle's point though: we just don't play really good football these days, at least not consistently.
 
I think the zombicity was particularly bad in contrast to just how amazing we looked for the first five games. We looked like we'd stepped up to something really special.

In its own terms, our football last season wasn't as bad as you're making out. It was certainly no classic United side, and yes sometimes a bit dull, and we got lucky quite a lot, and overall City played the better football. But we were still pretty effective, impressively so given the injuries.

The injuries did force our hand last season to an extent, but then that's kind of our fault for going into the season with only two midfielders who aren't injury prone...one of whom we already knew was suffering from a potentially (in fact likely) season ending medical condition.

It's never as bad as I make out, but also, the way we started last season is exactly the point. Every player involved in that is still at the club. That's the level we should be aiming for consistently, even if it means easing out someone like Scholes or leaving ourselves more vulnerable defensively. We shouldn't just settle into some zombified comfort zone which is less than what we're capable of...that comfort zone didn't even end up being good enough last season.
 
I'd also add that our football last season was still a lot better than in 2008/09 or 2010/11. Which sorts of supports noodle's point though: we just don't play really good football these days, at least not consistently.

Not sure about that. We weren't as good that season as we were the preceding two, but we were pretty fecking efficient and hard to beat.
 
Not sure about that. We weren't as good that season as we were the preceding two, but we were pretty fecking efficient and hard to beat.

But we were painful to watch, that's my point. All those 1-0-s were lessons in defending but good, exciting football it wasn't.
 
The problem is, I have to go all the way back to Fulham away in december last seasn to remember the last time we played with any real attacking tempo or invention.

.

Not long after that Fulham game we had a spell of league games. 12 in total unbeaten, 11 wins and 1 draw. It was a terrific run of results and some super performances.
 
But we were painful to watch, that's my point. All those 1-0-s were lessons in defending but good, exciting football it wasn't.

I loved our run of not conceding that season. I took as much pleasure in watching clean sheet after clean sheet as I did with other spells of non stop attacking.

Again I have never found us painful to watch.

I often ask, what would some of you do if you grew up supporting Blackburn or Bolton?
 
Jesus, a league winning season was "painful to watch"? Just as well United fans aren't spoilt, eh?

Way to miss the point, congratulations. Spectacular even from you.

So title winners can't play boring football now. A winners medal automatically makes the football played in the previous months exciting and brilliant?
 
I loved our run of not conceding that season. I took as much pleasure in watching clean sheet after clean sheet as I did with other spells of non stop attacking.

Again I have never found us painful to watch.

I often ask, what would some of you do if you grew up supporting Blackburn or Bolton?

Fallacious argument. I grew up supporting a modest little club in my home town and I obviously have different expectations when it comes to them. Well, I used to have: now I live like 150 miles away and I can't attend the games anymore.

By the way, why do these kind of threads have to descend into "who's the Bestest Top Red" every time? I know Pogue does literally nothing else but belittles everyone in an arrogant and condescending manner every time they dare to utter any sort of criticism about United but why does he have so many followers? Makes any sort of discussion quite difficult on here.
 
By the way, why do these kind of threads have to descend into "who's the Bestest Top Red" every time? I know Pogue does literally nothing else but belittles everyone in an arrogant and condescending manner every time they dare to utter any sort of criticism about United but why does he have so many followers? Makes any sort of discussion quite difficult on here.

I have no idea what a top red is. But it certainly is not me.

A Pogue follower? I disagree with him a lot more than I agree with him on many topics on Utd.

But I agree with him, on this. I dont understand how it can ever be painful to watch Utd.
 
Ok, forget painful, it's an over-the-top expression. Let's just say we played mediocre or downright poor football far too often in the last few years. Which is the thread is about.

A Top Red is Pogue, he's the absolute embodiment of it, the apotheosis of the entire concept: someone who ignores logic, points other people make, everything and just attacks others to make himself look like a better fan.
 
Of course it can be, I have nightmares of Basel last season.

Fortunately the good far outweighs the bad.
 
I have no idea what a top red is. But it certainly is not me.

A Pogue follower? I disagree with him a lot more than I agree with him on many topics on Utd.

But I agree with him, on this. I dont understand how it can ever be painful to watch Utd.

I'm sure there will be a lot of people who disagree with this. Sometimes, luckily a lot less than most sides, we are fecking shite. And usually it comes down to us being complacent and almost unarsed, taking things for granted.
 
Err yeah I found it fecking painful watching both our games against City last season. Clueless in one, toothless in the other.
 
I have no idea what a top red is. But it certainly is not me.

A Pogue follower? I disagree with him a lot more than I agree with him on many topics on Utd.

But I agree with him, on this. I dont understand how it can ever be painful to watch Utd.

I'd have to agree with you here. I usually end up disagreeing with Pogue but United are never really painful to watch. Every team has plenty of bad games, but if they think watching United is painful then they should have a look at some Scottish football.

Siorac does make some fair points on Pogue though.
 
Err yeah I found it fecking painful watching both our games against City last season. Clueless in one, toothless in the other.

I meant I never find us painfully boring or hard to watch.

Of course a defeat is painful, as in it hurts.
 
I meant I never find us painfully boring or hard to watch.

Of course a defeat is painful, as in it hurts.

I never found United "hard to watch" either: whenever they play I can't tear my eyes off the pitch. Doesn't mean the football is always enjoyable. The tension is always there - well, no. I have a confession to make: I don't really watch pre-season friendlies anymore, they are cynical money-making tours, totally worthless and boring, they are a substitute for football as much as non-alcoholic beer is a substitute for actual drinks.

Still, in case of actual competitive games I never turn off the TV or leave the stadium early. I don't fall asleep during United games and I don't have to force myself to watch them. But I do wish sometimes that we played better football and these occasions have been quite frequent in the seasons I mentioned above.
 
Hehe. What a girly little strop. You done yet? Or is there more flouncing still to come?

On the "painful to watch" thing. There will always be games which are a tough watch. Especially when we lose. Anyone who sums up an entire league-winning season with those words needs to have a word with themself. Or get a new hobby.
 
I don't think it's a stretch to say we were boring for the second half of last season. We were as boring as I can remember us being in a long time. 03/04 was probably the only season in the last 15 years to rival it, and at least then we had the excuse of just being a bit shite (comparatively, before anyone starts).

Many of my non United supporting mates who I talk to about football remark that we've become a boring and passive side over the past couple of years, and the zombie fotball is a big reason for that...along with the horrendously negative away performances from the season before last. I kind of agree in regards to 08/09 aswell, although we were still capable of playing some spectacular stuff that season. It just didn't happen all that often when compared to the previous two years.
 
08/09 was largely a case of Berbatov struggling to get going and Ronaldo not really giving a shit. By his standards he was fecking woeful in the league that season, and with the team being built around him it's hardly surprising we only managed to score a pitiful 68 goals. That and we became absolutely obsessed with clean sheets for half the season.
 
We were exceptionally slow today. I've seen Seria A teams moving around the pitch at higher pace.

What the feck is going on?
 
You have to give some credit to Southampton, they played well, got in our faces, took chances. They've already pushed City at their own ground this season, so they deserve a bit more respect then they're getting.

I think there was just a lot of miscommunication today. Cleverley didn't click with Kagawa and was just way too eager to push forward and did so too early. He went almost as soon as one of our players got the ball which inhibited our build up play as Southampton pushed up high. Carrick can't cover every player and because Clev went forward so quickly, they could mark Carrick and force the defenders to make a riskier pass, or simply close down Carrick who had no one nearby to pass too as his partner was gone.

To be fair though we're playing a brand new midfield combination, had to attackers who have only played with each other once and are new to the team. It's going to take some time to click in to gear, it's not like we've just added 1 player or anything and the rest of the team is the same. It's not helped by a lack of a solid defence atm. Rio and Vidic were both shaky, putting pressure on the team and not being able to help the fullbacks who were targetted aerially. Additionally I thought they were slow on the ball.

But like I said it was a tough game and players are still getting to know each other. Some of the reaction is ott when you put thinkgs into context such as the defenders still coming back from injuries, new players. We still dominated the ball and when we calmed down, had clev and carrick actually in the midle together we looked pretty comfortable on the ball. We really lacked a leader if anything today, someone to tell Cleverley to hold back a bit and calm the players down.

There was still some decent stuff here and there, it's just going to take a bit more time for players to gel with each other.
 
until the last 20 minutes or so there were southampton defenders at both ends of every pass we attempted. United doesn't handle defensive pressure very well. in fact we usually lose these types of matches.
 
Give it time. We're still bedding in a few players and trying to get a stable back four. Once we figure out our best midfield combo, we'll get some consistency going and start playing some great stuff.
 
Carrick was taking too long with the ball every fecking time he got it. Cleverley and Kagawa were running off him, and then he was playing the ball after Southampton had reacted to the run
 
Yeah again it happened. We look like a bunch of 60 year olds out there.

Short side ways pass
Short side ways pass
Forward pass which comes straight back
Short side ways pass
Launch it forward in frustration.
Possession lost.

I don't understand why we keep looking so scared of the ball. Everyone seems to need 5 touches of the ball before doing something equally non progressive. And Southampton looked great on the ball, stroking it about comfortably and instinctively, which was also aided by us watching them rather than pressing them.

Van Persie bailed us out today but I am worried about what sort of philosophy we're building at United. One thing that impresses me about City, whether they win or lose is their fluidity. We seem far less fluid in our football than them.
 
Carrick was taking too long with the ball every fecking time he got it. Cleverley and Kagawa were running off him, and then he was playing the ball after Southampton had reacted to the run

Carrick was sloppy at times but he was in general trying to do the right think which was a measured approach. We were so much better when we built the attack. Cleverley after about ten mins decided he was going to go play as a number ten or something and left a big gap in the middle meaning that Carrick never had a quick pass he could make other than to a defender or as a risky longer pass to an attacker. Plus when our defenders got the ball because Clev was nowhere in sight Southampton could mark Carrick and leave the defenders little option on what they could do with the ball. If you're going to blame someone blame the guy who was meant to play centre mid and decided he was going to be an attacking midfielder.
 
Yeah again it happened. We look like a bunch of 60 year olds out there.

Short side ways pass
Short side ways pass
Forward pass which comes straight back
Short side ways pass
Launch it forward in frustration.
Possession lost.

I don't understand why we keep looking so scared of the ball. Everyone seems to need 5 touches of the ball before doing something equally non progressive. And Southampton looked great on the ball, stroking it about comfortably and instinctively, which was also aided by us watching them rather than pressing them.

Van Persie bailed us out today but I am worried about what sort of philosophy we're building at United. One thing that impresses me about City, whether they win or lose is their fluidity. We seem far less fluid in our football than them.

that's because we play 3-4 yards off the ball when defending. it's maddening.
 
that's because we play 3-4 yards off the ball when defending. it's maddening.

Very true. I'm been banging on about for awhile. Not only have we started this unique and revolutionary zombie passing but we also don't really press with any real intensity. Sit off teams far too much.

I'm not sure which of the two irritates me more.