Just watched this. Struggling to understand what this film adds...overall just a pile of meh. Barely even entertaining which should be the basic prerequisite for it.
Film Star Wars: Episode VIII
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They've managed to make every character introduced in TFA less likeable, which is a feat in itself.
I like how divisive this seems to be. Actually really looking forward to it now.
+1
It's bad. Around the same level as TFA. McDonalds happy meal level of storytelling.
Exactly. It's mentioned multiple times how Luke is a good pilot prior to the final Death Star battle (three times, to be exact) This shit in a screenplay isn't by accident. It's to preserve suspension of disbelief so that by the time he takes part in the final battle, even though you don't explicitly remember, your brain remembers and hence doesn't question his being there. Without these three setups, you go WTF why is he flying with these professional fighter pilots!? and are absolutely right in doing so, as so many people are doing in regards to Rey.
I'm glad Rey isn't a lost Skywalker… it would be far too much of one family. However her background being a plot point is heavily teased in TFA. The question of why she is on Jakku/who does she think she is waiting for. The force vision where you see her being abandoned. Lor San Tekka also being on Jakku, etc. It's a massive fake out (and not I suspect what Abrams/Kasdan planned) for it to just be — oh yeah she's nobody.
I think the treatment of Snoke is much worse though. TFA set-up a super-villain who is behind the rise of the First Order, and crucial to the conflict present in the trilogy. Yeah that might have been cliche, but for Johnson to just discard him without at all exploring who he is, what he wants, how the First Order arose, etc is another huge fake out, and hugely unsatisfying
I think the treatment of Snoke is much worse though. TFA set-up a super-villain who is behind the rise of the First Order, and crucial to the conflict present in the trilogy. Yeah that might have been cliche, but for Johnson to just discard him without at all exploring who he is, what he wants, how the First Order arose, etc is another huge fake out, and hugely unsatisfying
There was maybe a fraction more set up with Luke in the original than with Rey in TFA but it was still like someone passing his driving at the first attempt and then winning an F1 championship the next month. They’re fairytales.
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No, it's much more than a fraction. TBH I can't be bothered trying to go into detail. It's a strict set of story points and very technical. Most people are not only surprised by how technical 'good storytelling' is, but they are incapable of grasping it.
When it works they can tell, but if you try to explain why to them, it's bupkes. Same as a plumber trying to explain his job. Thanks for fixing the toilet.
Are you saying some people aren't intellectual enough for Star Wars??
Rey using the Jedi mind trick in TFA was beyond a joke - the fact that got into the movie without someone saying anything is ridiculous.
Both Luke and Anakin had unrealistic 'fated interventions' because they were 'strong in the force'- Luke with the Death Star run, and Anakin with the Pod race- but to influence another person's mind was meant to be an advanced technique requiring skill - Luke struggled to direct the force in Dagobah, and Anakin was trained off screen so we missed his struggles. To hand it freely to a character is piss poor story telling, but whatever..
Both Luke and Anakin had unrealistic 'fated interventions' because they were 'strong in the force'- Luke with the Death Star run, and Anakin with the Pod race- but to influence another person's mind was meant to be an advanced technique requiring skill - Luke struggled to direct the force in Dagobah, and Anakin was trained off screen so we missed his struggles. To hand it freely to a character is piss poor story telling, but whatever..
I'm definitely not saying TFA was perfectly formed but neither were the originals.
Almost the whole chain of events only happens because the Imperial troops decide that it isn't worth worrying about a pod with no life forms aboard. In a galaxy filled with robots and electronic information.
I haven't seen TLJ yet.
Almost the whole chain of events only happens because the Imperial troops decide that it isn't worth worrying about a pod with no life forms aboard. In a galaxy filled with robots and electronic information.
I haven't seen TLJ yet.
I only just watched The Force Awakens yesterday and have just come back from the cinema after seeing The Last Jedi. T'was alright; nothing more.
About TFA, it was fine, but there were two things I didn't like. The first being the final battle - Rey's been a jedi for, what, an hour and beats Kylo. Not to mention that after having no training at all, she could use that mind control ability. The other being Han being killed off (which I knew had happened) just because I was hoping to see a scene with Luke, Leia, Han, Chewy, R2, C3P0 all together again. Also sad that there's no chance of a Kyle Katarn appearance now, too.
At the end, when Rey met up with Luke, I would've preferred them to have waited to unveil Luke at the beginning of this one but as the scene went on, and the camera panned around the area with Rey holding the lightsaber out, I changed my mind. It was a good ending.
On the plus side, the hotdog I had at the cinema was delicious.
About TFA, it was fine, but there were two things I didn't like. The first being the final battle - Rey's been a jedi for, what, an hour and beats Kylo. Not to mention that after having no training at all, she could use that mind control ability. The other being Han being killed off (which I knew had happened) just because I was hoping to see a scene with Luke, Leia, Han, Chewy, R2, C3P0 all together again. Also sad that there's no chance of a Kyle Katarn appearance now, too.
At the end, when Rey met up with Luke, I would've preferred them to have waited to unveil Luke at the beginning of this one but as the scene went on, and the camera panned around the area with Rey holding the lightsaber out, I changed my mind. It was a good ending.
I enjoyed it as much a TFA I think. My favourite parts were pretty much all of Luke's scenes (especially the ones with Yoda and Leia) and all of Leia's scenes. Everything else was pretty "meh". I really don't care that much about Rey or Kylo, Finn's alright, I liked how the woman sacrificed herself by flying into the baddies, BB8 is a funny little character, and Rose seemed like a nice new character.
I'm going into "fanboy mode" right now but I was a bit gutted that when Luke finally used the lightsaber in his confrontation with Kylo it was blue and not green. I've always associated the green one with Luke, but it's no big deal. The scenes between Kylo and Rey did nothing for me as I don't find either of them interesting. Well, I didn't here - in TFA I at least liked Rey a bit more than I did here. I also thought Snoke was probably the worst villain in a Star Wars movie. Not only did I find his look so devoid of originality, his character was as bland as you could get as well. He wasn't funny, wasn't intimidating or scary - just bland. Still, I felt a bit underwhelmed with his death scene. I mean, he's supposed to be this big powerful supreme leader and his death just fell flat for me.
I thought for sure that Luke was going to die like Obi-Wan at the end and was so glad the he didn't. Then having gone from fearful to joyous, I went to sadness when he passed on. The scene with him sitting on the rock looking into the sunrise was glorious, but I wanted him to stay alive! I also stayed to read the credits for Carrie Fisher (I can't believe it's been nearly a year since she passed!) and I thought the message was lovely. "Our princess"
I'm going into "fanboy mode" right now but I was a bit gutted that when Luke finally used the lightsaber in his confrontation with Kylo it was blue and not green. I've always associated the green one with Luke, but it's no big deal. The scenes between Kylo and Rey did nothing for me as I don't find either of them interesting. Well, I didn't here - in TFA I at least liked Rey a bit more than I did here. I also thought Snoke was probably the worst villain in a Star Wars movie. Not only did I find his look so devoid of originality, his character was as bland as you could get as well. He wasn't funny, wasn't intimidating or scary - just bland. Still, I felt a bit underwhelmed with his death scene. I mean, he's supposed to be this big powerful supreme leader and his death just fell flat for me.
I thought for sure that Luke was going to die like Obi-Wan at the end and was so glad the he didn't. Then having gone from fearful to joyous, I went to sadness when he passed on. The scene with him sitting on the rock looking into the sunrise was glorious, but I wanted him to stay alive! I also stayed to read the credits for Carrie Fisher (I can't believe it's been nearly a year since she passed!) and I thought the message was lovely. "Our princess"
It wasn't so much that they were less likeable for me; it was more boring. I felt that Luke and Leia really carried the movie and everyone else, more or less, just weren't that interesting to me whereas in TFA, Rey and Finn really carry the movie with the support of Han and Leia.
On the plus side, the hotdog I had at the cinema was delicious.
These star wars movie always come out to good reviews but always seem to spilt the audience online. Not sure if that's unique to stars wars or just blockbusters in general.
Which crashed onto a planet where the secret child of the second most evil man in the universe was being hidden (by a known relative of the second most evil man in the universe!)... using his real name. I suppose this is alright because he was being watched over by Obi-Wan Kenobi, in DEEP COVER AS... Ben Kenobi. That'll shake them off! PhDs in storytelling win again.
I'm no fanboy so it was probably easier for me to enjoy it than others, but even from my perspective there were quite a few things that didn't stack up on review.
It was too long as well. I found myself getting slightly bored at times.
Having said that it was an enjoyable ride. Some interesting ideas and the cast were mostly very good. Loved Mark Hamill and also Del Toros character was interesting.
It was too long as well. I found myself getting slightly bored at times.
Having said that it was an enjoyable ride. Some interesting ideas and the cast were mostly very good. Loved Mark Hamill and also Del Toros character was interesting.
Indeed.
Touche. Although you have to admit they did a pretty good job of retconning it, as Leia's adoptive dad did presumably know where Obi-wan (and Luke) was and he sent Leia there.
???
Edit - Ffs, it really was him. And there I was thinking that the actor looked extremely familiar. How is he looking younger??
Benicio Del Toro's character.
It's the same with Star Trek to be honest. I like them both but am by far a "trekkie" or "star warsy". The latest Star Trek series discovery is getting mixed reviews as some more serious trekkies are going about "we know **** drive didn't work" (or whatever it is called) as the series is based in the past so they're all up in a huff about it.
I tend to just enjoy the series or movie. Don't get me wrong, in Star Wars 1 -2 & 3 I didn't like that the space ships seemed more advanced than the ones in the original movies and thought they could have done something about that, but not losing sleep on it and just enjoyed the movie - bar Yaya Binks
He's a person and his name is Anak... I mean Dj.I don't think calling him by his character name would have helped Donaldo at all, tbf.
Although Benicio Del Toro as a reincarnated Anakin would be better than what we got. Now that you mention it though, someone on some SW message board had the idea that he's related to his character in the Marvel movies.
Although Benicio Del Toro as a reincarnated Anakin would be better than what we got. Now that you mention it though, someone on some SW message board had the idea that he's related to his character in the Marvel movies.
Feck me I dont know how I feel about this.. Some great stuff, some really bad and some really childish..
Good
Luke
Leia
Kylo
Medium
Some interesting story ideas
Rey
Finn
New heroine
Bad
Ideas regarding the "force"
Snoke
Rey's past
All in all good.. My 10 year old loved it and that is maybe what they are aiming for.
Some of the things with Luke were hillarious..
But the story element for me was missing and some great opportunities to further the character development was missed.. But some of the scenes were amazing..
Not sure what I fully think but will see it again..
3,5/5
Good
Luke
Leia
Kylo
Medium
Some interesting story ideas
Rey
Finn
New heroine
Bad
Ideas regarding the "force"
Snoke
Rey's past
All in all good.. My 10 year old loved it and that is maybe what they are aiming for.
Some of the things with Luke were hillarious..
But the story element for me was missing and some great opportunities to further the character development was missed.. But some of the scenes were amazing..
Not sure what I fully think but will see it again..
3,5/5
That would make Disney even more easy profits, let's hope they won't read that.
Yep, pretty much all of that.
I think this is the curse of Disney.
Didn't enjoy it as much as force awakens.
It is feck all like the empire strikes back except for the opening crawl.
I really don't think Disney are the ones to be annoyed with if you don't like it. If they're going to be interfering, they wouldn't be allowing a 2.5 hour running time for a start. Johnson said he had a free reign and I believe him on that.
Though on that note, and thinking about @Untied's point before, I do wonder how much stuff was given to him by Abrams and Kasdan that he had to include as to the answers for the questions TFA asked, or whether he was just given the previous film and a vague outline for the future and told to come up with whatever he wants.
Though on that note, and thinking about @Untied's point before, I do wonder how much stuff was given to him by Abrams and Kasdan that he had to include as to the answers for the questions TFA asked, or whether he was just given the previous film and a vague outline for the future and told to come up with whatever he wants.
Parts of the movie had me wondering if the script was written by one of disneys animated movie script writers (Frozen maybe) and some of the scenes had me wondering whether the director had been drafted in from Hannah Montana.
The general plot of the movie isnt bad, but when its mixed with that disney magic (marketing) it becomes a bit tedious.
Im sure Im not the only one that cringed at the attempts at comic humour, especially beteween Kylo Ren and the general. Just not what you expect.
Its Star Wars.. Not Guardians of the Galaxy!
The general plot of the movie isnt bad, but when its mixed with that disney magic (marketing) it becomes a bit tedious.
Im sure Im not the only one that cringed at the attempts at comic humour, especially beteween Kylo Ren and the general. Just not what you expect.
Its Star Wars.. Not Guardians of the Galaxy!
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Something that should be addressed :-
From Empire Strikes Back, as Luke is leaving Dagobah to save Leia and Han, Obi-Wan as a force ghost says to Luke, "If you choose to face Vader, you will do it alone. I cannot interfere."
From TLJ, Yoda, also as a force ghost, like Obi-Wan, manages to interfere in the physical world by causing lightning to strike the Jedi tree.
I've checked the lore, novels, Reddit, everywhere and can't find any mythology or history that documents the possibility of material interference in ghost form. That Yoda does this is jarring in as far as original trilogy faithfulness is concerned.
From TLJ, Yoda, also as a force ghost, like Obi-Wan, manages to interfere in the physical world by causing lightning to strike the Jedi tree.
I've checked the lore, novels, Reddit, everywhere and can't find any mythology or history that documents the possibility of material interference in ghost form. That Yoda does this is jarring in as far as original trilogy faithfulness is concerned.
Of all things that irked me, that didn't one bit.
I felt it was a let down by pacing, it seemed to have 3 or 4 endings. Jumped from heavy action set piece, to 5 minute calm discussion, back to set piece. Too many battles. Too many "shoot at the sweet spot" to blow up the bad ship. Too many peripheral characters. Not enough adventure.
Managed to make the galaxy seem very small.
Managed to make the galaxy seem very small.
I’m seeing this on Monday thanks to a really obsessive mate who booked 11 tickets in a plush cinema before even asking anyone, but I’m already amused by the record turn around from “amazing early noises” to “actually lots of things wrong” which, whilst always inevitable, seems to have come and gone and come around again all within the first couple days of release. Which is quite something.
I’ve got higher hopes for this than most other Star Wars tbf, due to Johnson’s track record, but people really need to stop putting faith in the early press hype for these types of movies. 90% of it (for Star Wars especially) comes from giggling New Media dickheads with a vested interest, a hugely unobjective bent, and a slobbering gratitude for being given early access. I personally wouldn’t trust any vlogger, blogger or YouTube channel that got an advanced media screening of this. They might as well have “Hype Man” pinned to their masthead.
If you must look to online reviews as a source of info, if it isn’t Red Letter Media, or to a lesser extent MovieBob, you’re basically being sold a Disney sanctioned log line, with a trendy haircut and the heart eyes emoji.
I’ve got higher hopes for this than most other Star Wars tbf, due to Johnson’s track record, but people really need to stop putting faith in the early press hype for these types of movies. 90% of it (for Star Wars especially) comes from giggling New Media dickheads with a vested interest, a hugely unobjective bent, and a slobbering gratitude for being given early access. I personally wouldn’t trust any vlogger, blogger or YouTube channel that got an advanced media screening of this. They might as well have “Hype Man” pinned to their masthead.
If you must look to online reviews as a source of info, if it isn’t Red Letter Media, or to a lesser extent MovieBob, you’re basically being sold a Disney sanctioned log line, with a trendy haircut and the heart eyes emoji.
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Watched him today and loved him, what an amazing movie. I liked Episode 7 but you can't deny that it was a pretty safe movie, so I hoped they would be more brave with 8 and they absolutely delivered on that front. A lot of unpredictable moves which might piss off some fans who had already a lot of theories lined up, but I loved them.
The battle scenes were the best in the series, brilliant work by Rian Johnson. The humour was great and even better than Episode 7, but it still wasn't too much and pretty dark sometimes. Some weird scenes in it too, but they don't destroy the movie for me.
Can't wait to see where Episode 9 goes from here
Teasing Rey's parentage all the time and then making her a nobody was great and unpredictable for me. And they still left room for speculation. Snoke said he was responsible for the connection between Kylo and Rey, but in the end they can see each other again. Killing Snoke off without a great reveal was kind of cool too. Luke's end was brilliant.
The battle scenes were the best in the series, brilliant work by Rian Johnson. The humour was great and even better than Episode 7, but it still wasn't too much and pretty dark sometimes. Some weird scenes in it too, but they don't destroy the movie for me.
Leia's scene in space or Yoda's appearance
Can't wait to see where Episode 9 goes from here
I liked Luke in the film but after seeing the quotes from Mark Hamill himself on his characters portrayal I'm inclined to agree. It's not a big problem at all but I can see where he was coming from.
I'm also glad I'm not the only who found Snoke a terrible character. I'm glad he was killed off.
He was. It's why I liked Kyle Katarn so much - he followed his own path.
In The Empire Strikes Back, when Obi-Wan said that, I always took it as him entrusting Luke as the hero. Like, he could've if he wanted, but he didn't want to because if he had to then all of Luke's training would've meant less. He's the hero now so it's up to him. Or am I way off on that one?
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Well to be fair he did that himself with the prequels. I liked it and the other 2 so for me Disney are 3/3 so far. Decent Star Wars films, nothing spectacular but nothing that will ruin the legacy.
I'll agree on the Kylo Ren/General scene, it fell flat for me. Your not the only one to notice this, I didn't notice watching and never took me out of the film. I was tired though, might need to see it again.
Just seen it. It's a terrible film, terrible in almost every way. Generic by-the-numbers comic book movie making with a Star Wars badge on it.
Way worse than the prequels.
Way worse than the prequels.
feck me... I don't really know how to rate this movie. Some interesting new ideas which worked for me personally but equally some very weird things which didn't.
Like
Luke
Rey's further development. She is a very interesting character.
Poe
Dialogue & motive explanations. (The force, good vs evil, why are we doing this? Etc)
Overall the movie is emotionally a lot more interesting than the previous Star Wars movies.
Dislike
Finn's storyline in this movie was a bit boring and reminded me too much of that Star Wars spin off movie ( felt like an entire different movie)
Snoke - meant to be this incredibly powerful bad guy who was taken out quite easily by Kylo Ren. I like Kylo and his weird teenage character, however I never saw him as the prime evil character. For me he is simply too childish to be the main villain in this trilogy.
a serious lack of badass lightsaber fights.
What the feck was the point in Snoke? What was he, why did he do the things he did, etc?
Leia flying in space? Director was taking the piss there, genuinely laughed out loud.
I think I prefer TFA over this one.
Like
Luke
Rey's further development. She is a very interesting character.
Poe
Dialogue & motive explanations. (The force, good vs evil, why are we doing this? Etc)
Overall the movie is emotionally a lot more interesting than the previous Star Wars movies.
Dislike
Finn's storyline in this movie was a bit boring and reminded me too much of that Star Wars spin off movie ( felt like an entire different movie)
Snoke - meant to be this incredibly powerful bad guy who was taken out quite easily by Kylo Ren. I like Kylo and his weird teenage character, however I never saw him as the prime evil character. For me he is simply too childish to be the main villain in this trilogy.
a serious lack of badass lightsaber fights.
What the feck was the point in Snoke? What was he, why did he do the things he did, etc?
Leia flying in space? Director was taking the piss there, genuinely laughed out loud.
I think I prefer TFA over this one.
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Wow it's being eloquently eviscerated by disappointed fans there. Some of them are seriously pouring their hearts out and not in a cringey fanboy way but in a truly heartbroken way.
But for the most part they're all pointing out the same problems: misplaced humor, ridiculous 'money shots' that don't actually lead anywhere etc.
The director isn't exactly the sharpest tack in the bunch, so the deck was stacked against getting a good movie. Sigh...
Definitely feels a lot like a fan-fiction with a big budget.
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Naaaah, the Mr Sunday Movies one from a page or two back was pretty much bang on. At least in terms of chiming with my opinion, which I promise isn't sanctioned by Disney in any way (though would welcome any cash/access they want to give me if reading...).
This movie was a bit of a train wreck, that almost entirely derailed the positive foundations that The Force Awakens laid. It was a bit like LVG’s second season, really.
I very nearly included him actually, but nah. He's funny, and will rip into a film once it's notably bad, but I still think he's a bit of a shill. On the low end of the shill scale, admittedly, but still a very fanboiy, Collider/Screen Junkie collabing reviewer. Mitigating every criticism with a cheeky "or maybe not, who knows?" gives him a clever illusion of dissent, but he's still overwhelmingly on hype. I do like him (and his indistinguishable mate) though.
The problem is a lot of these channels operate entirely within the geeky pop culture zeitgeist, and are set up specifically too cater to it, so there's not even a pretence of objectivity. That's why RLM can skewer them so well. Them & MovieBob review other movies, from other genres, which MrSM doesn't. That's why he doesn't make the cut.
I mean we’ve already reached the point where people are cheering a cinema damaging monopolising corporate take over because it means their favourite fictional children’s characters can punch each other in a film. It’s not cute anymore. And these peeps are the lube that’s let that feckery go down smooth.
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So I just got back from watching it a second time, and I think its a very good movie. First time I came out I wasn't sure, and I recommend seeing it twice to anyone else who felt the same. It doesn't get everything right, it certainly has problems, but the highly compelling core characters carry it through.
I disagree fundamentally with everyone who argues they don't do Luke justice in this movie, but I acknowledge that I may see Luke differently to others. I also think Rey and Kylo Ren (particularly Kylo Ren) are the best things about this movie. I loved where they took the Force and how this movie subverted what we think we know about it. I also loved the interrogation of what heroism truly means.
I certainly have issues. The "against all odds ragtag rebellion" trope is played out for me, but you could argue the Force Awakens forces this movie to play that up. I'm also a little frustrated with the underutilisation of secondary characters, and especially one or two fakeouts that I felt were cheap thrills. Ultimately though, they're minor nitpicks.
I get why some hardcore fans will struggle with this, but as a hardcore fan myself, I'm a fan of what this movie brought, and I think it sets up episode 9 for a movie even fresher than this one was. I think this movie has great depth, and I really like the character work. Ultimately, people want different things from movies, and I understand how people could go into this movie with particular expectations and be left very frustrated.
I disagree fundamentally with everyone who argues they don't do Luke justice in this movie, but I acknowledge that I may see Luke differently to others. I also think Rey and Kylo Ren (particularly Kylo Ren) are the best things about this movie. I loved where they took the Force and how this movie subverted what we think we know about it. I also loved the interrogation of what heroism truly means.
I certainly have issues. The "against all odds ragtag rebellion" trope is played out for me, but you could argue the Force Awakens forces this movie to play that up. I'm also a little frustrated with the underutilisation of secondary characters, and especially one or two fakeouts that I felt were cheap thrills. Ultimately though, they're minor nitpicks.
I get why some hardcore fans will struggle with this, but as a hardcore fan myself, I'm a fan of what this movie brought, and I think it sets up episode 9 for a movie even fresher than this one was. I think this movie has great depth, and I really like the character work. Ultimately, people want different things from movies, and I understand how people could go into this movie with particular expectations and be left very frustrated.
Yea I know, Im just over whinging. Its not a bad movie really, just some bits are too disney imo.