Film Star Wars: Episode VIII

I would classify myself as bit of a star wars freak. I really didn't get this movie.

I haven't read anyone elses opinion or reviews.

But it defo wasnt great. Where is the story development?
 
UnitedBoy said:
I would classify myself as bit of a star wars freak. I really didn't get this movie.

I haven't read anyone elses opinion or reviews.

But it defo wasnt great. Where is the story development?
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Would someone who has no clue about star wars or it's lore and has not seen any of the movies be able to enjoy the this movie as a stand alone one?
 
UnitedBoy said:
I would classify myself as bit of a star wars freak. I really didn't get this movie.

I haven't read anyone elses opinion or reviews.

But it defo wasnt great. Where is the story development?
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The story was supposed to be Luke training Rey while reluctant to do so while the First Order move in on a defenseless republic. I haven't seen it yet, but does that not happen?
 
Hoof The Ball said:
Rey is a Mary Sue. Snoke doesn't have a backstory. Humour kills tension. Jedi actions contradict original trilogy. Skywalker character inconsistent with OT. Akbar should have sacrificed his life with hyperdrive into Snoke's ship, not Holdo. Star Wars fans won't like this movie. Read IMdb reviews and you'll get that. Casual action fans will like it. Technical movie fans will pick apart logical inconsistencies.
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Not quite sure how I feel about the film yet. I felt very similar about TFA after the midnight screening two years ago. This will need a second viewing or two as absolutely crazy. Don't totally disagree with all your points, though I think they're relatively minor, but sorry, the Mary Sue thing is just sexist nonsense, mostly coming from fans who think Star Wars is a poorly written novel from the expanded universe or a cut scene from a 90s PC game. They were absolutely right to abort those timelines and the incredibly uneven quality of their content, these films follow the spirit of the cinematic universe, whether this one gets it right or not yet, I'm not quite sure.
 
Anyone who mentions the Mary Sue thing renders the rest of their comment completely irrelevant. Luke Skywalker is a massive Mary Sue in both the films and all of the canon i.e books etc who kicked off the entire franchise and nobody cares about that. He's a fecking farmer who blew up the death star with the power of his mind and an X-wing despite having no experience as a fighter pilot. He went hand to hand in a lightsaber duel with one of the best duelists in the galaxy who had personally hunted down and killed nearly all of the remaining Jedi - after doing some upside down hand stands with Yoda on his back, and then later bested him. I mean come on ffs the entire franchise is built on a Mary Sue.
 
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beedoubleyou said:
Not quite sure how I feel about the film yet. I felt very similar about TFA after the midnight screening two years ago. This will need a second viewing or two as absolutely crazy. Don't totally disagree with all your points, though I think they're relatively minor, but sorry, the Mary Sue thing is just sexist nonsense, mostly coming from fans who think Star Wars is a poorly written novel from the expanded universe or a cut scene from a 90s PC game. They were absolutely right to abort those timelines and the incredibly uneven quality of their content, these films follow the spirit of the cinematic universe, whether this one gets it right or not yet, I'm not quite sure.
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Not it's not at all. Mary Sue is to a female what Marty Stu is to a male. The cinematic reference/term refers to a character type, not a character gender.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
Not it's not at all. Mary Sue is to a female what Marty Stu is to a male. The cinematic reference/term refers to a character type, not a character gender.
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He's referring to the fact that when male characters are Mary Sue's nobody cares, but as soon as a female lead does it everybody is up in arms. It's either sexism, or just outright hypocrisy.
 
Zarlak said:
Anyone who mentions the Mary Sue thing renders the rest of their comment completely irrelevant. Luke Skywalker is a massive Mary Sue in both the films and all of the canon i.e books etc who kicked off the entire franchise and nobody cares about that. He's a fecking farmer who blew up the death star with the power of his mind and an X-wing despite having no experience as a fighter pilot. He went hand to hand in a lightsaber duel with one of the best duelists in the galaxy who had personally hunted down and killed nearly all of the remaining Jedi - after doing some upside down hand stands with Yoda on his back, and then later bested him. I mean come on ffs the entire franchise is built on a Mary Sue.
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You mean the same Luke who struggled for months with Yoda on a planet to do even the slightest thing as far as force control is concerned, yet, Rey with zero training as a Jedi can perform force functions because the plot requires it to move the story forward? It's a deus ex machina at best.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
You mean the same Luke who struggled for months with Yoda on a planet to do even the slightest thing as far as force control is concerned, yet, Rey with zero training as a Jedi can perform force functions because the plot requires it to move the story forward? It's a deus ex machina at best.
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Firstly, no, I mean the same Luke who with zero training as a fighter pilot, flew an X-Wing evading Anakin who had extensive experience flying, then blew up the death star in near impossible shot with the power of his mind despite having no experience or training whatsoever in doing that and who then went one on one with a lightsaber vs one of the best duelists in the galaxy single handedly responsible for wiping out most of the other jedi and fully fledged in his training - with pretty much no combat training at all vs Rey who didn't do anything in TFA remotely close to what Luke did in the original trilogy and pretty much only managed to tie/almost lose a duel with a petulant child who still had his training to complete, who was holding back and was severely wounded and clutching his chest the whole time. The jedi mind trick I'll grant you, though there may well come out a plausible reason for that too. The TFA books and parts of the TFA film hint at prior training for Rey and so we'll have to see how that fleshes out.

And secondly, your one example of something doesn't negate the other miracles he performed in those movies which put him in a Mary Sue role. And I think you know that.
 
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Zarlak said:
Firstly, no, I mean the same Luke who with zero training as a fighter pilot, flew an X-Wing evading Anakin who had extensive experience flying, then blew up the death star in near impossible shot with the power of his mind despite having no experience or training whatsoever in doing that and who then went one on one with a lightsaber vs one of the best duelists in the galaxy single handedly responsible for wiping out most of the other jedi and fully fledged in his training - with pretty much no combat training at all vs Rey who didn't do anything in TFA remotely close to what Luke did in the original trilogy and pretty much only managed to tie/almost lose a duel with a petulant child who still had his training to complete, who was holding back and was severely wounded and clutching his chest the whole time.

And secondly, your one example of something doesn't negate the other miracles he performed in those movies which put him in a Mary Sue role. And I think you know that.
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It's a long time since I watched it but doesn't Luke get saved by Solo just before he gets zapped by a Vader he'd ultimately failed to evade? I also recall him getting tonked in his first duel with Vader and losing a hand, saved by Obi wan from Tuscan whatsits, saved again by him in a bar, saved by R2D2 in a crusher. He constantly gets saved by his mates. IIRC (I've only seen it once) my beef with Rey was that she was perpetually doing the saving and everything seemed to come to her without much struggle at all. If Rey had had an arc like Jen's (Jyn?) I'd have been a lot happier.
 
Luke was also the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim, who had and flew on a ship with similar controls to X-Wing.

And quite a while passed between Star Wars and Empire, of course he had combat training. Well, guess not with a Jedi as a training buddy, but surely there are other ways.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
It's a long time since I watched it but doesn't Luke get saved by Solo just before he gets zapped by a Vader he'd ultimately failed to evade? I also recall him getting tonked in his first duel with Vader and losing a hand, saved by Obi wan from Tuscan whatsits, saved again by him in a bar, saved by R2D2 in a crusher. He constantly gets saved by his mates. IIRC (I've only seen it once) my beef with Rey was that she was perpetually doing the saving and everything seemed to come to her without much struggle at all. If Rey had had an arc like Jen's (Jyn?) I'd have been a lot happier.
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He holds his own the entire way until he gets his arm chopped off when in reality he should had his hand cut off in less than 5 seconds and shouldn't have been able to do anything vs quite literally the most dominant and unstoppable force in the galaxy at that particular time. The second time he goes into a rage and beats him down effortlessly after spending a few months doing handstands with Yoda. The sheer gulf between him and Vader at that time should have been over a hundred times larger than between Rey and Kylo. He was literally a farm boy vs one of the most powerful Sith lords alive in the galaxy. Everybody overlooks how stupid that is, also that a farm boy can pilot an X wing like he's Poe Dameron's instructor and pull off a near impossible shot with no training whatsoever.

But when Rey has a fight against an apprentice who isn't a sith let alone a sith lord, severely wounded and holding his side the entire fight who still beat her down and tried to convince her to join him, it's bullshit, she should have been defeated effortlessly and she's a Mary Sue. Which if the definition of it 'somebody who can repeatedly do things they shouldn't be able to do as they have no experience of it' is applied to Luke, fits him perfectly. They don't have to be good at every single thing they do to be a Mary Sue and so it doesn't matter that Luke was saved by R2D2 etc. He still does Mary sue things, like Rey was captured, she wasn't good at that, she nearly lost to Kylo who had her beat when he tried his gambit to turn her etc, she wasn't good at that. It doesn't mean you have to be amazing at everything. Just some things that you have no right to be amazing at. I.e destroying a titanic structure with an impossible shot in an aircraft when you have no experience as a fighter pilot, or going toe to toe with one of the most dominant sith lords in the galaxy when you're a farmer who has at best a few months training.
 
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Zarlak said:
He holds his own the entire way until he gets his arm chopped off when in reality he should had his hand cut off in less than 5 seconds and shouldn't have been able to do anything vs quite literally the most dominant and unstoppable force in the galaxy at that particular time. The second time he goes into a rage and beats him down effortlessly after spending a few months doing handstands with Yoda. The sheer gulf between him and Vader at that time should have been over a hundred times larger than between Rey and Kylo. He was literally a farm boy vs one of the most powerful Sith lords alive in the galaxy. Everybody overlooks how stupid that is, also that a farm boy can pilot an X wing like he's Poe Dameron's instructor and pull off a near impossible shot with no training whatsoever.

But when Rey has a fight against an apprentice who isn't a sith let alone a sith lord, severely wounded and holding his side the entire fight who still beat her down and tried to convince her to join him, it's bullshit, she should have been defeated effortlessly and she's a Mary Sue.
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I think you've got some of the narrative backwards. I think Luke gets instructed by Yoda before he gets his arm chopped off, not after. I also recall the idea that in the first encounter Vader wasn't so much looking to give him a good hiding as looking to test him and attempt to convert him to evil.

For me though the thing that saves Luke from being a shite character in quite the same way as I think Rey is is the fact that he had multiple failings and often screwed up (I don't think he was amazing character, just a better one). His impulsiveness and stubbornness gets him into trouble, he gets tongue tied when he fancies people, doubts himself a lot, he whinges and moans, folk get the better of him. His mates genuinely help him out of difficulty on numerous pivotal occasions and there is no way he could succeed without them. His faults and their consequences are demonstrated to him as the films progress and through them he develops as a character. He does unbelievable hero stuff, that's true, but it's not his whole story.

I genuinely didn't get that sort of impression from Force Awakens. It just seemed to be a fait accompli that Rey would be better than everyone at everything all the time. If she'd occasionally got bailed out at an important moment or two, demonstrated a weakness and had her character improved by another person I'd have been happier with her but I can't remember an instance where she was. I don't mind a couple of acts of unbelievable heroism, I just prefer to witness examples of fallibility in other areas in order to compensate. In reality all I can remember were demonstrations of the ineptitude of others and those characters being improved by Rey.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
I think you've got some of the narrative backwards. I think Luke gets instructed by Yoda before he gets his arm chopped off, not after. I also recall the idea that in the first encounter Vader wasn't so much looking to give him a good hiding as looking to test him and attempt to convert him to evil.

For me though the thing that saves Luke from being a shite character in quite the same way as I think Rey is is the fact that he had multiple failings and often screwed up (I don't think he was amazing character, just a better one). His impulsiveness and stubbornness gets him into trouble, he gets tongue tied when he fancies people, doubts himself a lot, he whinges and moans, folk get the better of him. His mates genuinely help him out of difficulty on numerous pivotal occasions and there is no way he could succeed without them. His faults and their consequences are demonstrated to him as the films progress and through them he develops as a character. He does unbelievable hero stuff, that's true, but it's not his whole story.

I genuinely didn't get that sort of impression from Force Awakens. It just seemed to be a fait accompli that Rey would be better than everyone at everything all the time. If she'd occasionally got bailed out at an important moment or two, demonstrated a weakness and had her character improved by another person I'd have been happier with her but I can't remember an instance where she was. I don't mind a couple of acts of unbelievable heroism, I just prefer to witness examples of fallibility in other areas in order to compensate. In reality all I can remember were demonstrations of the ineptitude of others and those characters being improved by Rey.
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I really don't see her being better than everyone at everything all the time. It's been a while since I saw the film I'll admit, but she literally got captured when she went off on her own, getting bested by Kylo who froze her and then captured her and took her away and then got bested by Kylo in a lightsaber duel despite him clutching his side the whole time in great pain after she put up a tiny bit of a fight, and despite him holding back and trying to convert her to the dark side. The only thing that people complained about that I can remember are the force trick which ok fair play, and them somehow thinking she dominated Kylo in the lightsaber battle which never happened. That completely pales in comparison to Luke's death star feat, and him holding his own and beating Vader (someone who was infinitely better at everything than Kylo) after a few months training.

Not having fleshed out her backstory doesn't make her a Mary Sue, it just means her character wasn't written very well and she wasn't as endearing to us as Luke was. The whole Mary Sue thing is about performing miracle feats that you had no right performing and in this instance, Luke whoops Rey all over the place. It is inferred in both the book and the films that Rey has prior training that Luke did not, so there is at least the possibility of an out there to explain some of Rey's abilities. That simply wasn't there for Luke who then went on to perform bullshit feats he had no right performing. Yes he was a more likeable character due to his quirks, but that doesn't alter the Mary Sue aspect. The whole franchise started with a Mary Sue.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
I think you've got some of the narrative backwards. I think Luke gets instructed by Yoda before he gets his arm chopped off, not after. I also recall the idea that in the first encounter Vader wasn't so much looking to give him a good hiding as looking to test him and attempt to convert him to evil.
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Yeah, wasn't the plan to capture him in that freezing chamber, not kill him?
 
Luke wasn't as much of a Mary Sue as Rey is. As mentioned above, he got bailed out by his mates constantly in IV. Han, R2 D2 and Obi-Wan all saved his life numerous times in the space of 2 hours. Han even ensured he had an open goal when blowing up the death star, without which he'd have died.

Then he fecked up constantly in V. Firstly by going out in the snow like a chump after the base was closed, then by leaving the sheltered cave and running out into the snow after chopping off that things arm with a lightsaber. Just murder the thing and stay indoors ffs. Then he disappoints yoda for an hour before leaving his training against the advice of people who know better to walk into a trap.

To those saying he held his own against Vader, I disagree. He fought Vader, but not really. Vader was toying with him, and could have ended the thing in 5 seconds if he wanted to kill him, but he didn't. He wanted to test him out, see how powerful he was and try and turn him. Luke was never even in danger. In fact as soon as he landed a lucky hit on Vader's shoulder, he cut his hand off about a second later. The fight was about him and the emperor checking out this "new enemy", nothing else.

Only in VI, where the purpose of the movie's opening act is literally designed to show us how far Luke had come, do we see significant development in Luke as a Jedi. He swoops in, saves his friends and murders the bad guys and looks confident doing so. Then at the end of the film he makes decisions based on things we've actually seen him learn from Yoda. He resists temptation and follows the advice given to him in V to save the day.

The final movie ties the three together nicely, and everything we'd seen Luke learn in IV and V actually affects the story. In TFA, Rey didn't even have a mentor yet and she was pulling off all sorts of shit. Mind control, flying ships and not only duelling with but actually beating a bad guy who while nowhere near as skilled as Vader, did actually want to harm her. Ren gave it his all, and Rey kicked his ass. That's where I think a lot of the Mary Sue comments come from, and the fact it took Rey one movie to do what took Luke 3.
 
Zarlak said:
I really don't see her being better than everyone at everything all the time. It's been a while since I saw the film I'll admit, but she literally got captured when she went off on her own, getting bested by Kylo who froze her and then captured her and took her away and then got bested by Kylo in a lightsaber duel despite him clutching his side the whole time in great pain after she put up a tiny bit of a fight, and despite him holding back and trying to convert her to the dark side. The only thing that people complained about that I can remember are the force trick which ok fair play, and them somehow thinking she dominated Kylo in the lightsaber battle which never happened. That completely pales in comparison to Luke's death star feat, and him holding his own and beating Vader (someone who was infinitely better at everything than Kylo) after a few months training.

Not having fleshed out her backstory doesn't make her a Mary Sue, it just means her character wasn't written very well and she wasn't as endearing to us as Luke was. The whole Mary Sue thing is about performing miracle feats that you had no right performing and in this instance, Luke whoops Rey all over the place. It is inferred in both the book and the films that Rey has prior training that Luke did not, so there is at least the possibility of an out there to explain some of Rey's abilities. That simply wasn't there for Luke who then went on to perform bullshit feats he had no right performing. Yes he was a more likeable character due to his quirks, but that doesn't alter the Mary Sue aspect. The whole franchise started with a Mary Sue.
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A Mary Sue (A crap phrase) is a character defined by an unbelievable level of perfection - not simply the ability to perform miraculous feats. It's not the ability for people to accomplish an unreasonable thing I have a problem with (the thing you're focusing on), my personal issue is with a character never needing help and never demonstrating a weakness they require help in overcoming. Even when Rey is captured she requires no help in the escape that I can remember. She works out how to do the jedi mind trick, then climbs out of her place of captivity - She basically saves herself.

I've just watched back the opening 40 minutes or so of Force Awakens and New Hope. As you said Luke starts out as a whiny farm boy with prosaic concerns and some dreams. By about 40 minutes he's lost a droid, been bested by the sand people , saved by Obi Wan, had his surrugate family murdered and his home destroyed. When we first meet Rey she's a rapelling, sand surfing, multi-lingual, self sufficient scavenger successfully surviving all alone in a cruel and brutal world. By minute 40 she's also proved to be an excellent fighter, bested her co-star by smacking him to the earth and rescuing him. She then becomes an ace pilot (admittedly after a 30 second learning curve) and spacecraft engineer. She's not screwed up once and demonstrated spectacular competence in about six different areas of expertise. Luke's shown himself to be a whiny dreamer under the yoke of his uncle and who's impulsiveness lands him in trouble. One has demonstrated no weakness at all, the other nothing but weakness.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
A Mary Sue (A crap phrase) is a character defined by an unbelievable level of perfection - not simply the ability to perform miraculous feats. It's not the ability for people to accomplish an unreasonable thing I have a problem with (the thing you're focusing on), my personal issue is with a character never needing help and never demonstrating a weakness they require help in overcoming. Even when Rey is captured she requires no help in the escape that I can remember. She works out how to do the jedi mind trick, then climbs out of her place of captivity - She basically saves herself.

I've just watched back the opening 40 minutes or so of Force Awakens and New Hope. As you said Luke starts out as a whiny farm boy with prosaic concerns and some dreams. By about 40 minutes he's lost a droid, been bested by the sand people , saved by Obi Wan, had his surrugate family murdered and his home destroyed. When we first meet Rey she's a rapelling, sand surfing, multi-lingual, self sufficient scavenger successfully surviving all alone in a cruel and brutal world. By minute 40 she's also proved to be an excellent fighter, bested her co-star by smacking him to the earth and rescuing him. She then becomes an ace pilot (admittedly after a 30 second learning curve) and spacecraft engineer. She's not screwed up once and demonstrated spectacular competence in about eight different areas of expertise. Luke's shown himself to be a whiny dreamer under the yoke of his uncle and who's impulsiveness lands him in trouble. One has demonstrated no weakness at all, the other nothing but weakness.
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I think that's easily explained by Luke being a farmer, and Rey being a scavenger who scavenges every day to earn a living. Those traits are not unusual. If I remember rightly (I might be wrong) she already says she has experience of flying when they steal the Falcon. It's also a bit unfair to focus on the first 40 minutes - at the end of the film Rey has been captured, and struggles to hold her own against Kylo who is busy trying to stop his insides from falling out where as Luke who was a farmer, frees princess Leia from a highly guarded Imperial facility and then despite having no experience whatsoever, pilots an x wing to the Death Star without any issue at all, handles it without a problem and pulls off an impossible shot by using the force, something he barely has any experience in whatsoever to direct a missile through a tiny hole to blow it up. I feel like of the two outcomes there, Luke has displayed way way way more of a leap in ability than Rey who built on some kind of base experience.

Not to mention, it is inferred repeatedly in the films that Rey and Kylo know each other and that there is more to Rey than there seems - something which was never the case with Luke, he literally plucked that ability out of thin air.
 
Been a while since I saw TFA but I don't remember KR giving his all but still getting his ass kicked. As I remember it he was basically toying with her despite being wounded and only really using one hand. It was only once she was backed up against the cliff face and they paused for him to offer to train her (or something like that?) that she pulled off a quick flurry to beat him. Unless I'm really misremembering it.
 
sullydnl said:
Been a while since I saw TFA but I don't remember KR giving his all but still getting his ass kicked. As I remember it he was basically toying with her despite being wounded and only really using one hand. It was only once she was backed up against the cliff face and they paused for him to offer to train her (or something like that?) that she pulled off a quick flurry to beat him. Unless I'm really misremembering it.
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This. He toyed with both of them with one hand all while trying to hold his insides in place with one hand until he got slashed. He then immediately put Finn down and then bested Rey in seconds until he said 'join me' and she had a second of clarity and knocked him back. Then the ground opened up. He didn't lose or get his ass kicked or anything like that. It's just an exaggeration by people who have the Mary Sue issue with Rey.
 
How different is it from the force awakens? I liked that movie, but would not mind things being changed up somewhat.
 
Oh god, the Mary Sue thing again.

First half had me conflicted, second was immense.

And yeah, anyone saying this was an Empire clone is telling porkies.
 
Zarlak said:
I think that's easily explained by Luke being a farmer, and Rey being a scavenger who scavenges every day to earn a living. Those traits are not unusual. If I remember rightly (I might be wrong) she already says she has experience of flying when they steal the Falcon. It's also a bit unfair to focus on the first 40 minutes - at the end of the film Rey has been captured, and struggles to hold her own against Kylo who is busy trying to stop his insides from falling out where as Luke who was a farmer, frees princess Leia from a highly guarded Imperial facility and then despite having no experience whatsoever, pilots an x wing to the Death Star without any issue at all, handles it without a problem and pulls off an impossible shot by using the force, something he barely has any experience in whatsoever to direct a missile through a tiny hole to blow it up. I feel like of the two outcomes there, Luke has displayed way way way more of a leap in ability than Rey who built on some kind of base experience.

Not to mention, it is inferred repeatedly in the films that Rey and Kylo know each other and that there is more to Rey than there seems - something which was never the case with Luke, he literally plucked that ability out of thin air.
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She say's she's no idea how she managed the feat - she just does it (she alludes to flying some simple thing but discounts it). I couldn't be bothered going further than 40 minutes TBH. I do think that the first 40 is enough to get the tone of each movie though. All Rey's capabilities are to some extent explainable by her situation, sure. The problem for me is that she's demonstrated nothing but extreme competence at everything and has required next to no help whatsoever - other characters in her orbit have so far been reduced to vehicles by which Rey can demonstrate this competence. She's rapelled through a starship, surfed a dune, comunicated in whateverish and droidango, beaten up two dudes, floored her co-star, rescued him, flown a spaceship, outrun an imperial fighter and fixed said spaceship. Her co-star's fallen over twice, been knocked to the ground, set up for a turkey shot and passed her some tape.
 
I just came back from seeing it and thought it was fantastic and I’m looking forward to the next one.

People bickering about Rays handling of the force really?
she doesn’t do anything all that groundbreaking. All we know so far that she is raw untapped power. She has no control over her abilities as such and is finding them out as she goes along. No where in the movie do you get an impression that she has mastered her abilities, actually the scene with Smoak shows how untrained she really is. Powerful yes, skilled, no. Star Wars and the force is about balance she is the opposite of kylo, equally matched in power hence the scene with the light saber splitting yet he has been trained to use his abilities. The film visually shows how much more skilled he is in the fight scene due to her struggiling with 1 or 2 and him taking on 4-5. Smoak also says she is his equal

Really people it’s that simple.
 
Witchking said:
Would someone who has no clue about star wars or it's lore and has not seen any of the movies be able to enjoy the this movie as a stand alone one?
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Yes id say the film is trying to appeal to those
 
DixieDean said:
How different is it from TFA? Hope Rian Johnson mixed things up a bit.
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He definitely did. Didn't all pay off, it's a bit too long and some bits will have you scratching your head but when it works, it really works.

Where TFA was very safe, this definitely isn't.
 
5/10, though I should probably wait until it has settled in my mind before putting a solid rating to it. Was not impressed with TFA either just to provide context.

Maybe I am just getting too old(38) for SW, enjoyed Rogue One despite all its issues but this new trilogy is doing very little for me.

Quite a lot of people leaving during it btw.
 
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Despite familar flaws with recycling ideas this movie expanded lore a little bit more. The part of funding two sides of war and generally some Canto Bight stuff was interesting to watch. Way better than TFA, more of emotional attachment to characters and interactions between... but seriously, it was a silly & enjoyable mess at the same time.

Yoda ghost laughing at Luke being a half senile old prick was mint. :lol:
 
Ubik said:
He definitely did. Didn't all pay off, it's a bit too long and some bits will have you scratching your head but when it works, it really works.

Where TFA was very safe, this definitely isn't.
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That's the type of thing I wanted to hear. Thanks.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
She say's she's no idea how she managed the feat - she just does it (she alludes to flying some simple thing but discounts it). I couldn't be bothered going further than 40 minutes TBH. I do think that the first 40 is enough to get the tone of each movie though. All Rey's capabilities are to some extent explainable by her situation, sure. The problem for me is that she's demonstrated nothing but extreme competence at everything and has required next to no help whatsoever - other characters in her orbit have so far been reduced to vehicles by which Rey can demonstrate this competence. She's rapelled through a starship, surfed a dune, comunicated in whateverish and droidango, beaten up two dudes, floored her co-star, rescued him, flown a spaceship, outrun an imperial fighter and fixed said spaceship. Her co-star's fallen over twice, been knocked to the ground, set up for a turkey shot and passed her some tape.
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Fair enough, I think where we disagree on the Mary Sue thing is that those things are not particularly spectacular and are grounded in logic. You would expect a scavenger to be able to rapel into a starship. Hell, I can rapel and I've done it once before. It's not that difficult. Speaking languages, Anakin Skywalker could do that as a 10 year old kid or whatever he was. For all we know it's normal when you're immersed on a world that speaks that many languages. People on Earth do that. With Luke, there is no logical reason at all how he can go from a farmer to piloting an x-wing and blowing up the death star from nowhere, or holding his own against Darth Vader who was at the height of his power. That just came from literally nowhere. That's much worse than anything Rey ever did.
 
When I first saw Adam driver in TFA I was praying he would put his mask on and keep it there. But he is really growing on me as ren. He puts in really emotive performances at times.
 
Zarlak said:
Fair enough, I think where we disagree on the Mary Sue thing is that those things are not particularly spectacular and are grounded in logic. You would expect a scavenger to be able to rapel into a starship. Hell, I can rapel and I've done it once before. It's not that difficult. Speaking languages, Anakin Skywalker could do that as a 10 year old kid or whatever he was. For all we know it's normal when you're immersed on a world that speaks that many languages. People on Earth do that. With Luke, there is no logical reason at all how he can go from a farmer to piloting an x-wing and blowing up the death star from nowhere, or holding his own against Darth Vader who was at the height of his power. That just came from literally nowhere. That's much worse than anything Rey ever did.
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Yeah, I thought 10 year old Anekin (and Anekin in general) was a worse character than Rey tbh. I agree that Luke did spectacular stuff, just think his demonstrable weaknesses compensated for it whereas Rey's more consistent brilliance irked me more. I'm not going to hijack this thread any further though, I'll agree to disagree.
 
What a pro.

Mark Hamill told Rian Johnson after reading the script for the film, "I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you've made for this character [Luke Skywalker]. Now, having said that, I have gotten it off my chest, and my job now is to take what you've created and do my best to realize your vision."
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DixieDean said:
How different is it from TFA? Hope Rian Johnson mixed things up a bit.
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I would say it is awkwardly different. Many of the mysteries set-up by Abrams and Kasdan in TFA have no meaningful payoff here because Johnson has gone off on his own path.

Given the planned production of this trilogy it is weird how poorly they fit together.

• Rey's parentage/ desire to stay on Jakku
• Snoke / The First Order
• Luke's decision to recluse
• The Knights of Ren
• Lor San Tekka
 
Untied said:
I would say it is awkwardly different. Many of the mysteries set-up by Abrams and Kasdan in TFA have no meaningful payoff here because Johnson has gone off on his own path.

Given the planned production of this trilogy it is weird how poorly they fit together.

• Rey's parentage/ desire to stay on Jakku
• Snoke / The First Order
• Luke's decision to recluse
• The Knights of Ren
• Lor San Tekka
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With Rey, been a while since I've seen TFA but that's never really talked about in that movie, just fans speculation who her parents were. Same with Snoke I like the fact they're both nobodies. I never liked the fact that she could be a Skywalker too convenient for me, she is just a random kid which is better imo. Same with Snoke speculation is he Darth Plagueis (although you could argue he still could be, Plagueis did come back from the dead before, don't know how you come back from being sliced in half).

With the last 2 points guess you could still see them in Ep 9
 
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