Film Star Wars Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker [Theories]

Saw it this afternoon, thought it was pretty dire.
Felt like they tried to stitch a plot into 2 hours worth of random bits of cgi a week before release using nothing but references to the original trilogy, Carrie Fisher reaction shots, lots and lots of cocaine and the phrase 'just go with me for a min' every 2nd sentence.
Just a total mess of a film. Was very, very bored by the end.
 
Thought it was atrocious, genuinely impressed with how much crap they jammed into the allotted time.
 
I went in with low expectations and enjoyed it. If I was expecting it to be like or as good as the original Star Wars trilogy then I’d of course be left massively disappointed.

Overall it’s not a masterclass but it’s better than the 4 previous Star Wars films that have been released in this decade - Force Awakens, Rogue One, Last Jedi & Solo.
 
Isn't something to do with jedis that weren't fully trained that adopted yellow sabres?

Saw it the other day, it's saving grace is that I don't remember much of it. It was awful.
 
buckooo1978 said:
if you go into this movie with the attitude that it is a kids movie...which in reality it is it's much more enjoyable

in spite of plot holes, predictability I still enjoyed it. The characters are very forgettable though and it wont have the same nostalgia factor as the original 3
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I swear that the median of the audience in the cinema I watched was over 40 years old, with many people being in their fifties or even their sixties, with close to no kids, and with some teens.

I am not claiming that there is anything particular about Star Wars, but the main audience are not kids, not even close. It isn't even a case of a kid going with his parents, there was next to no kids at all. In other Disney Star Wars movies it was similar, though this time it was more extreme.
 
Redlambs said:
Apparently it's "big and grandiose" too...


I mean, it was same old SW just even more boring than usual. It's up there with Phantom Menace in terms of not really saying anything or going anywhere.
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Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones at least had a plot which kind of made sense. Just that it was executed poorly, the dialogues were laughable, the CGI was overused and the acting was wooden (bar Sidious, Qui-Gon Jin and Kenobi in the second movie). It also had Natalie Portman who was :drool:

The new trilogy kind of doesn't even have a plot, and they have gone full Marvel with the space magic and not caring about the established rules or the plotholes. I mean a lightsaber gets destroyed in the previous movie, but suddenly it is in the new movie. The main villain comes back (which essentially makes the sage The Palpatine saga instead of Skywalker saga) in like 3 seconds. JJ said himself that Snoke had been there for thousands of years lurking in background and is immensely powerful, but apparently he was essentially a robot controlled by Palpatine, somehow D & D (from Game of Thrones) just being a bit related to Star Wars meant that now there is tele-transportation in the universe.

Objectively speaking and if you consider them in isolation as popcorn fun, all the three movies are better than the first two prequels, but as part of a bigger story they are far worse. Mostly cause there was no bigger story here and it seemed that they made decisions without even thinking. What could be more dangerous than a planet killer? Well, let's make a starkiller. Wait no, let's make thousands of ships each of which can destroy a planet. Let's hit them with all we have, all the 7 small aircrafts we have. I thought that you won the war dude, why suddenly you are weaker than in the original trilogy, while the Empire who lost is infinitely stronger. Kenobi was cool advising Luke as a Force ghost. Let's make Luke as a force ghost and make him use the force to telekinesis a ship. Wait, let's make Force insensitive Han a Force Ghost too, cause why not. Leia decided to not become a Jedi. Hah, the joke on you, she was a Jedi after all. I mean even within the individual movies there is an infinite number of inconsistencies, but if you look about stuff between the movies, feck, Donald Trump would have written a more consistent plot.

It is just a giant mess of illogical decisions that totally fail to get linked with each other and tell a larger story. Cause there is no larger story, and they even gave up pretending about it.
 
If you go into this film with your expectations lowered and that it's for kids so the only thing that matters is the excitement of the spectacle, and the best you can say is you enjoyed it or its not bad, then how fecking terrible did you actually think it was before you started making excuses for it?!
 
Revan said:
I swear that the median of the audience in the cinema I watched was over 40 years old, with many people being in their fifties or even their sixties, with close to no kids, and with some teens.

I am not claiming that there is anything particular about Star Wars, but the main audience are not kids, not even close. It isn't even a case of a kid going with his parents, there was next to no kids at all. In other Disney Star Wars movies it was similar, though this time it was more extreme.
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Yeah you are probably right but when Disney have the rights it probably doesn't matter about audience demographics - it's going to be a middle of the road, exciting movie with lots of characters in different scenarios, different ships etc

You are probably looking at factors like merchandise and the Toy Market being as important a factor as storytelling.

My kids are quite young (5, 3 and 2) and the older ones loved Marvel first and foremost but they are really getting into Star Wars.
 
RedSky said:
I'm staggered someone thinks this film is better than Rogue One, honestly staggered.
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I don't find Rogue One that great but yeah, this one can claim to be a bit better than Revenge of the Sith but not much more than that.
 
evil_geko said:
Why do people act that The Last Jedi is hated just because it was "daring" and "different" ? It was a mess full of plot holes, it fails as a standalone movie as well as a Star Wars movie.

Easily the worst SW movie out of all 9.
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Easily is a very big word to use in the context of those fecking prequels.
 
Ubik said:
I don't find Rogue One that great but yeah, this one can claim to be a bit better than Revenge of the Sith but not much more than that.
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I didn't like Rogue One, I don't see why it gets so much love. For me, Solo is the best since ROTS.
 
Revan said:
I swear that the median of the audience in the cinema I watched was over 40 years old, with many people being in their fifties or even their sixties, with close to no kids, and with some teens.

I am not claiming that there is anything particular about Star Wars, but the main audience are not kids, not even close. It isn't even a case of a kid going with his parents, there was next to no kids at all. In other Disney Star Wars movies it was similar, though this time it was more extreme.
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I was finding the same before Disney killed any enthusiasm I had to see them in the cinema. There were barely any kids at all, it seemed to be mostly people 25+.
 
OK I think I enjoyed it, helps having rock bottom expectations. I could spend all day nitpicking at it but TLJ already destroyed any idea that anything has to make sense in this trilogy, its all nonsense, there's no point.

I still spent half the film rolling my eyes but there were enough good moments toward the end that I left feeling pretty satisfied.

One question, what was that third lightsaber Rey had at the end? That supposed to be Palpatine's?
 
It isn't unusual for kids' films to attract a fairly large audience of adults, even those that are more strictly child orientated:

https://www.mic.com/articles/76207/why-children-s-movie-audiences-are-filled-with-24-year-olds

Obviously that will be even more so with films that pitched at slightly older kid/teen/family audiences like Star Wars, yet more so when it's a legacy film and yet more so again depending on the time of the screening you go to. Ultimately though that doesn't change what the make-up of the film needs to be in order to appeal to that youngest cohort, so they remain kid/family films.

That shouldn't come with drastically lowered expectations though. The Pixar and Ghibli films are also for kids, it doesn't stop many of them from being extremely well made. And there are plenty of films for adults that are stupid/terrible as shit.

If you want lowered expectations then go in with the attitude that it's only meant to be a big, silly, shiny popcorn flick. It's slightly insulting to kids to think they wouldn't spot basic storytelling problems.
 
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Most disappointing thing btw was that leia's saber wasn't pink.
 
It’s not really a trilogy. Like others have pointed out, they made one movie and then based the other two on the audience response. What we have are basically three separate movies.

It really should have been Ren turning good and Ray becoming bad, discovering her bloodline might have been the final trigger. Palpatine appearing as only ghost force, or recorded message he left for Rey to discover.
 
Simbo said:
OK I think I enjoyed it, helps having rock bottom expectations. I could spend all day nitpicking at it but TLJ already destroyed any idea that anything has to make sense in this trilogy, its all nonsense, there's no point.

I still spent half the film rolling my eyes but there were enough good moments toward the end that I left feeling pretty satisfied.

One question, what was that third lightsaber Rey had at the end? That supposed to be Palpatine's?
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It's her own one, the hilt was part of her old staff thing that she insisted on carrying everywhere.
 
momo83 said:
It’s not really a trilogy. Like others have pointed out, they made one movie and then based the other two on the audience response. What we have are basically three separate movies.

It really should have been Ren turning good and Ray becoming bad, discovering her bloodline might have been the final trigger. Palpatine appearing as only ghost force, or recorded message he left for Rey to discover.
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Which could have resulted in everyone trying to get through to her and only Fin is able too, not out of some shitty love story but from friendship. Someone willing to sacrifice themselves (like Han did) to try and get through to their friend/son. Only this time it works on Rey when it failed on Ben.
 
momo83 said:
It’s not really a trilogy. Like others have pointed out, they made one movie and then based the other two on the audience response. What we have are basically three separate movies.

It really should have been Ren turning good and Ray becoming bad, discovering her bloodline might have been the final trigger. Palpatine appearing as only ghost force, or recorded message he left for Rey to discover.
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They couldn't do that because it would have involved Rey failing at something. For some reason they decided she could have no equals, no conflict and no journey. She won at everything and came through the whole thing with barely a scratch. Luke had to be rescued twice within the first hour of the first film, again at the start of the second and ended up scarred, missing a limb only surviving the whole thing because Vader saved him at the end. Rey had none of this because they refused to write her as an actual character. She was just arbitrarily given the power to twat everything in her path without ever having to earn it. She was written so badly that they had to make her special to explain it. It was a clusterfeck from the first film.

For all the plot holes and random nonsense at the core of it all they didn't write any characters. Which is why they had to keep pulling people from the other trilogies in as there was no one else there to care about.
 
Art Vandelay said:
They couldn't do that because it would have involved Rey failing at something. For some reason they decided she could have no equals, no conflict and no journey. She won at everything and came through the whole thing with barely a scratch. Luke had to be rescued twice within the first hour of the first film, again at the start of the second and ended up scarred, missing a limb only surviving the whole thing because Vader saved him at the end. Rey had none of this because they refused to write her as an actual character. She was just arbitrarily given the power to twat everything in her path without ever having to earn it. She was written so badly that they had to make her special to explain it. It was a clusterfeck from the first film.

For all the plot holes and random nonsense at the core of it all they didn't write any characters. Which is why they had to keep pulling people from the other trilogies in as there was no one else there to care about.
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To be fair, Ren beat her fair and square this time, and some hesitation of it followed by Leia sacrificing her life to reach him saved Rey.
 
Art Vandelay said:
They couldn't do that because it would have involved Rey failing at something. For some reason they decided she could have no equals, no conflict and no journey. She won at everything and came through the whole thing with barely a scratch. Luke had to be rescued twice within the first hour of the first film, again at the start of the second and ended up scarred, missing a limb only surviving the whole thing because Vader saved him at the end. Rey had none of this because they refused to write her as an actual character. She was just arbitrarily given the power to twat everything in her path without ever having to earn it. She was written so badly that they had to make her special to explain it. It was a clusterfeck from the first film.

For all the plot holes and random nonsense at the core of it all they didn't write any characters. Which is why they had to keep pulling people from the other trilogies in as there was no one else there to care about.
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Yeah, she only died in this film to be brought back to life by a man. Oh, and did you not notice that Kylo Ren had her beat before Leia saved her? Still not good enough, for you?
 
DixieDean said:
Yeah, she only died in this film to be brought back to life by a man. Oh, and did you not notice that Kylo Ren had her beat before Leia saved her? Still not good enough, for you?
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No it's not. They had two films to make her an actual character I'd pay to see in a third film, they failed at that. They had to bring Palpatine back because they spent two films with her walking through everything else. Too little, too late. They had to kill her in order to bring her back down a notch which renders previous films pointless given Anakin's entire turn to the dark side was based on his inability to save people from death. Even death isn't enough to stop her in the end. Anakin couldn't bring people back from the dead, Luke couldn't, Yoda couldn't. Yet Rey and Kylo can overcome even that. How can you not see that there's a huge problem there?
 
DixieDean said:
Yeah, she only died in this film to be brought back to life by a man. Oh, and did you not notice that Kylo Ren had her beat before Leia saved her? Still not good enough, for you?
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Did she die or she was just really injured?
 
Art Vandelay said:
No it's not. They had two films to make her an actual character I'd pay to see in a third film, they failed at that. They had to bring Palpatine back because they spent two films with her walking through everything else. Too little, too late. They had to kill her in order to bring her back down a notch which renders previous films pointless given Anakin's entire turn to the dark side was based on his inability to save people from death. Even death isn't enough to stop her in the end. Anakin couldn't bring people back from the dead, Luke couldn't, Yoda couldn't. Yet Rey and Kylo can overcome even that. How can you not see that there's a huge problem there?
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I never liked TROS, but I'll say this in its favour, Anakin turned to the darkside and he couldn't save Padme, Kylo turned to the light and he could save Rey. As he said in TFA he finished what Vader started. It's pretty obvious what they going for with that.

Rey and Kylo apparently have some sort of rarely seen force connection which explains some of their powers seen in this film. Palpatine mentions it at the end of the movie.

I have no idea when the idea Palpatine bring back was made. It might have been 5 years ago or I might well have been when this movie started production. I suspect the reason for his return when so they could link all 9 films and market this as the end of the 'Skywalker saga'. So, the answer is probably marketing, rather than storytelling. I wish it was the latter.
 
Just seen it. Watchable but pretty poor really which sums up a lot of star wars for me in that they're all the same
 
Art Vandelay said:
They couldn't do that because it would have involved Rey failing at something. For some reason they decided she could have no equals, no conflict and no journey. She won at everything and came through the whole thing with barely a scratch. Luke had to be rescued twice within the first hour of the first film, again at the start of the second and ended up scarred, missing a limb only surviving the whole thing because Vader saved him at the end. Rey had none of this because they refused to write her as an actual character. She was just arbitrarily given the power to twat everything in her path without ever having to earn it. She was written so badly that they had to make her special to explain it. It was a clusterfeck from the first film.

For all the plot holes and random nonsense at the core of it all they didn't write any characters. Which is why they had to keep pulling people from the other trilogies in as there was no one else there to care about.
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Exactly.
 
Art Vandelay said:
They couldn't do that because it would have involved Rey failing at something. For some reason they decided she could have no equals, no conflict and no journey. She won at everything and came through the whole thing with barely a scratch. Luke had to be rescued twice within the first hour of the first film, again at the start of the second and ended up scarred, missing a limb only surviving the whole thing because Vader saved him at the end. Rey had none of this because they refused to write her as an actual character. She was just arbitrarily given the power to twat everything in her path without ever having to earn it. She was written so badly that they had to make her special to explain it. It was a clusterfeck from the first film.

For all the plot holes and random nonsense at the core of it all they didn't write any characters. Which is why they had to keep pulling people from the other trilogies in as there was no one else there to care about.
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Didn't Kylo beat the shit out of her twice in the newest movie? Once on the death star and once when she was on his ship and he was on the ground. He also made a fool out of her in getting her to destroy the ship she thought was carrying Chewy. It looked pretty clear he eased off when she was getting angry. I think the third movie made it pretty clear than Ben was far superior to her (particularly with a light saber) and she barely beat him while he was injured in the first. He didn't want to kill her and was easily a match for her.
She was probably more powerful than him with the force but all she really did with the force is the first two movies was be stubborn about him trying to read her mind and move some rocks at the end of the last jedi.

For all the issues I have with those movies, I genuinely don't think Rey was able to twat anyone of any decent level at any stage. Though I agree she was a horribly written character who didn't really have to suffer to be victorious but neither did she really achieve anything. Well... other than hold a reflector at Palpatine who was written too stupid to actually stop shooting lightning when it was clear it was damaging him and not her. She was just a meh character who had no great losses or great victories. She won because Palpatine was senile...

The major issue with the entire series, was that Rey and Finn did feck all while characters around them made stupid decision after stupid decision just so they got to the end in one piece.
 
padr81 said:
Didn't Kylo beat the shit out of her twice in the newest movie? Once on the death star and once when she was on his ship and he was on the ground. He also made a fool out of her in getting her to destroy the ship she thought was carrying Chewy. It looked pretty clear he eased off when she was getting angry. I think the third movie made it pretty clear than Ben was far superior to her (particularly with a light saber) and she barely beat him while he was injured in the first. He didn't want to kill her and was easily a match for her.
She was probably more powerful than him with the force but all she really did with the force is the first two movies was be stubborn about him trying to read her mind and move some rocks at the end of the last jedi.

For all the issues I have with those movies, I genuinely don't think Rey was able to twat anyone of any decent level at any stage. Though I agree she was a horribly written character who didn't really have to suffer to be victorious but neither did she really achieve anything. Well... other than hold a reflector at Palpatine who was written too stupid to actually stop shooting lightning when it was clear it was damaging him and not her. She was just a meh character who had no great losses or great victories. She won because Palpatine was senile...

The major issue with the entire series, was that Rey and Finn did feck all while characters around them made stupid decision after stupid decision just so they got to the end in one piece.
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He was also beating her ass in the first movie when he was a rookie who hadn't finished his training, though that's been done to death. Let's not forget that Luke went from a farmer to an X-Wing fighter pilot managing to pull off an impossible shot with the force in no time at all and then in later films was able to hold his own against literally the 2nd most powerful Sith in the entire galaxy who had many years of Jedi training and who regularly traveled the galaxy slaying fully fledged Jedi Knights because he had a 5 minute Rocky montage on Dagobah but selective memory is a thing.
 
Zarlak said:
He was also beating her ass in the first movie when he was a rookie who hadn't finished his training, though that's been done to death. Let's not forget that Luke went from a farmer to an X-Wing fighter pilot managing to pull off an impossible shot with the force in no time at all and then in later films was able to hold his own against literally the 2nd most powerful Sith in the entire galaxy who had many years of Jedi training and who regularly traveled the galaxy slaying fully fledged Jedi Knights because he had a 5 minute Rocky montage on Dagobah but selective memory is a thing.
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Hol' up, Luke is a guy so its ok.
 
Zarlak said:
He was also beating her ass in the first movie when he was a rookie who hadn't finished his training, though that's been done to death. Let's not forget that Luke went from a farmer to being able to hold his own against literally the 2nd most powerful Sith in the entire galaxy who had many years of Jedi training and then go on to pull off an impossible shot with the force after a 5 minute Rocky montage on Dagobah.
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There are 3 years between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, followed by a few weeks with Yoda, followed by losing to Vader, followed by a year between The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. By the time, Luke defeated Vader, he had been experimenting with the Force for 4-5 years, and had been trained by two of the most legendary and powerful Jedi of all time.

Rey defeated (an injured) Ren, a few hours after she started using the Force.
 
RedDevilRoshi said:
I went in with low expectations and enjoyed it. If I was expecting it to be like or as good as the original Star Wars trilogy then I’d of course be left massively disappointed.

Overall it’s not a masterclass but it’s better than the 4 previous Star Wars films that have been released in this decade - Force Awakens, Rogue One, Last Jedi & Solo.
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Nah, Rogue One is the best that Disney put out regarding Star Wars(replaced now by Mandalorian), this was atrocious.
 
Revan said:
There are 3 years between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, followed by a few weeks with Yoda, followed by losing to Vader, followed by a year between The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. By the time, Luke defeated Vader, he had been experimenting with the Force for 4-5 years, and had been trained by two of the most legendary and powerful Jedi of all time.

Rey defeated (an injured) Ren, a few hours after she started using the Force.
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She didn't defeat an injured Ren at all, she was getting her ass handed to her by an injured Ren until she had a moment of clarity and escaped. Which in itself is nothing compared to Luke's turning from farm hand into expert X-Wing pilot who can avoid Darth Vader's own fighter for long enough that Han comes to the rescue and then he just blows up the death star because he heard Obi Wan tell him to just use the force.

There's also not much he can 'experiment' with without a master in that time compared to Darth Vader who is routinely engaging and slaying multiple Jedi round the galaxy. Also it's not even remotely comparable. Darth Vader is at this point the second most feared Sith in the galaxy who has taken part in the Clone Wars as a Jedi, who has bested people like Dooku in 1 on 1 combat (who was Yodas apprentice for 3 years) and who continues to be under the tutelage of the emperor himself. One could very easily make the argument that Luke would need a hell of a lot more direct training under a Jedi master over longer than 4-5 years rather than spending most of that time on his own just 'figuring it out' to even come close to defeating a non injured Vader than Rey would need to defeat a heavily injured angsty non Sith who hasn't yet finished any training and who we already saw earlier in the film is capable of immobilizing her and overpowering her incredibly easily when he isn't trying to hold his intestines in place.
 
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