Film Star Wars Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker [Theories]
- Thread starter vidic blood & sand
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Opinions, I guess. I thought Rogue One was fecking boring. I actually remember falling asleep midway through the film when watching it on a flight to Dubai last year.
I’ve not seen the Mandalorian yet as don’t have that Disney subscription service here in the UK just yet. Heard good things about it.
At the end when she said who she was...ffs. Absolute shite.
We went to see it last night.
Do we have any conclusive proof that it was not, in fact, written by a four year old?
Do we have any conclusive proof that it was not, in fact, written by a four year old?
I feel like she twats everyone. I mean she defeated Luke, Palpatine and death itself by the end of it all. By the end of TLJ, she's pulled off advanced maneuvers in a space ship from out of nowhere, rescued Finn, rescued herself with advanced Force powers, fought Kylo Ren to a standstill, defeated multiple elite guards, defeated Luke Skywalker, rescued the rebels and somehow inherited the Falcon. All with barely even taking a scratch. Even when Han dies it's not Chewie getting consoled or hugged, it's Rey. Her very character has twatted every Jedi that's come before her. There's no way to bring her back down to being an actual character from that without it being a giant mess.
How do you spend so much money on something and then give so little care for the writing? I'm still baffled by the whole mess.
She’s a character no one will particularly remember.. pretty sad when the most memorable new character from this trilogy is Poe and that’s mostly for his character in the first movie, a character that got slowly diluted with each sequel.
I disagreed with it, but I think the people who thought Rey was OP in TFA had a ghost of a point.
However, anyone who makes that point after the last two, especially TROS, is talking nonsense.
However, anyone who makes that point after the last two, especially TROS, is talking nonsense.
Both Rey and Kylo will definitely be remembered more than Poe. Rey in particular will be a hero for the little girls who grew up watching these films. Sometimes I think some people forget those particular fans exist and that they have no reason to pine for the days of yore.
I forgot about the Luke thing actually, I think that Disney actually retconned that in the aftermath of the movie to Luke slipping. Was a shocking scene of her being overpowered in the movie though, one I completely forgot but given Johnsons attempt at Skywalker character assassination not surprising.
I don't think she defeated Palpatine as much as he defeated himself or the spirit of 1000 Sith beat themselves vs the spirit of 1000 Jedi or whatever the terrible scene was.
Lots of people pull off advanced flying maneuvers in SW with little formal training, Luke himself being an example.
The elite guards I'm fine with her beating, shes naturally very strong with the force and we know she could fight from pretty much her first scene. Guards and Stormtroopers have always been canon fodder in the series and unable to do anything right. Its probably retconning again but I think its made pretty clear only one person actually wants to win when she fights Kylo the second time in TLJ. Kylo never wanted to defeat or hurt her, he just wanted not to get killed.
The Han scene is terrible and an insult to Chewy. I agree on her being a terrible character, boring, bland and oddly with no real story of her own. She's just dragged along to victory with no achievements imho.
The entire trilogy is shockingly written and pretty much mirrors Rey. The main characters achieve nothing, Kylo is the only one with any sort of character arc (oh and admiral suicide in TLJ). Thats my issue my main issue, nobody does anything to move the story forward at any stage, it just kind of moves forward in spite of them as opposed to thanks to them.
That said in a similar way to Endgame I found it quite enjoyable, a fun if terribly written and patchwork end to a massive saga. No better nor worse than any of 1-3 or 7-9 (actually better than 8) and terrible in comparison to 4-6.
There have been lots of fun SW movies, but the truth is there hasn't been a well written one since Empire which is 40 years old next May.
"She beat Luke" is a good example of people remembering their own version of a film.
That's quite the spin. You can your opinions on the character without resorting to this shit. 'defeated Luke' is one way of completely missing the point of that fight. What about in TLJ when Kylo rescued her from Snoke? Or when she failed to turn Kylo to the light. And that's not even counting her failures in the latest movie.
And Kylo brings her back to life yet this is someone spun as Rey defeating death? Surely it's the other way around.
And I can't believe people think TROS is better than TLJ. TLJ is ten times the movie TROS is.
TLJ is just abhorrent, worst Star Wars creation to date. In preparation of watching TROS I wanted to watch both TFA and TLJ, I couldn't even finish TLJ, it is just that bad, TROS for all its faults and plot holes, at least it's much more entertaining.
TLJ, aside from some misplaced humor is a fantastic movie. It's also the most beautiful Star Wars film of all time.
What about it is fantastic? The characters aren’t developed at all, and they don’t have an arc. They somehow managed to spend 2 and a half hours with no-one accomplishing anything.
The two films either side of it are bad for different reasons, but I can at least name something that happened in them. In TLJ the films ends with everyone in the same place as where they started it. Seriously, what’s changed by the end of the film?
The characters don't have an arc? I know you don't like it, but are you sure you didn't fall asleep? Luke went from someone devastated by his failure with Ben, to overcoming said failure and ultimately reconnecting to the force. And in doing so he resurrected his legend.
It’s a possibility tbf.
I mean, he sort of did. He realised he was wrong to have hidden away on an island, but not enough to actually leave the island and try and redeem Kylo himself. Just enough to feck with him for a bit while the bad guys blow up the Rebel base anyway. Again, it accomplished nothing.
But to have that as the major arc of the movie is very thin, you have to agree. The other characters are just decoration, and sending Finn and Rose away on some bullshit mission just to give them something to do? Again, that whole side plot accomplished nothing and added nothing to the movie. Why they felt the need to even add Rose is beyond me. They don’t have enough for the characters to do as it is, so they introduce a new one...
If TLH doesn't have character arcs, then TROS doesn't have star destroyers with death star lasers.
It accomplished two things. First, it was enough of a distraction to allow the resistance to have the time to escape. But most importantly it inspired a galaxy and was a call to arms for action. Kids like broom boy at the end of the movie were inspired by Luke. It's a legend that should only grow over time.
Sadly, for some bizarre reason, the call to arms message was not followed up in TROS. The fleet should have arrived to help because of Luke's actions. But that movies failure in no way reflects on TLJ.
Rey's alive, Kylo's not. Ergo Rey got past death. Her and Luke had a fight, who was left standing at the end of it? You don't need any context to that. She's completely untrained and defeated the most powerful Jedi that's ever lived. You're acting like there was some sort of thought out plan to this trilogy when there very clearly wasn't. You even implied Palpatine coming back could have been an idea from the start a couple of pages ago.
Kylo rescued her from Snoke when again absolutely nothing happened to her, she hung there in the air while the one thing that might have been a threat to her was removed as an obstacle for her. She's a terribly written character that's been powered up to the detriment of the characters that came before her.
There is no argument with people who can argue the last two movies are any good. Entertaining for them? Sure, I can accept that, but objectively good and coherent? Not even close. So many inconsistencies and plot holes, boring and useless characters that go nowhere, destroying previously already good established characters etc
A bloody mess.
A bloody mess.
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Yes, Rey got past death by being brought back to life by a man. Girl power just shoved down our throats!
The luke thing is clutching at straws and you know it. He was cut off from the force and was not even trying to beat her. Oh, and Luke is not the most powerful Jedi ever, but he is miles ahead of were Rey was. I didn't see her force project, did you?
As for whether or not there was a plan for this trilogy. I know that the 'Art of' books show artwork dating back years relating to what we saw in 7&8. However, I simply don't know the answer as to how much of this plan was used and how much was written on the fly. I don't know, and I suspect we won't know until a tell-all book is eventually released in a few years time. As, for Palpatine, after seeing TROS I suspect he was brought back on the fly. The reason I suggested it might have been the plan from the start is because KK gave an interview a few months ago saying as much. As I said, I'm inclined not to believe that now.
Either way, I don't care if there was or was not a plan in place. I just want good stories told. The plan obsession is misguided. George Lucas made shit up all time and it did the OT no harm. He then planned the prequels out and they were largely crap.
TROS bad. Last Jedi will always be dam good. It's in a different class to any other 'Disney era' film and it's a real shame that Rian Johnson's movies are no longer going to happen.
I am just glad opinion like yours is in massive minority (not counting the payed "critics").
Who had an arc then? You could take the entire movie out of the trilogy and it wouldn’t be any different.
I didn’t see any link between what Luke did and, well, anything really. Do we even know how much time has passed between 8 and 9? How can his actions inspire anything inside young kids when only about a week had passed?
The last Jedi is probably the worst movie I've seen at the cinema. Possibly ever.
Receipts? The only thing would point to that would be the RT viewer rating system that was flooded with trolls and was before RT even verified if people voting had seen the movie. They literally changed their system because of cases like this and Captain Marvel. What other evidence is there that liking the movie puts me in a massive minority? It was certainly a divisive film but I don't see me being in a massive minority. It has an 'A' cinemascore, so the people watching it seemed to enjoy it.
People thought the phantom menace was the best thing ever when it came out, before they could watch it again or use their brain after the hype died down.
I'm talking about the end of 8. You see kids playing with figures talking about it, and then broom boy. His legend grew and inspired a new generation to fight. At least that the was idea behind the movie. Will any of that be followed up on in the future movies? I have zero idea.
I don’t think that I got annoyed by any entertainment bar Mass Effect 3 as from The Last Jedi. It was shit from start to end.
The new movie was almost as bad, which is an achievement on itself.
I didn’t get that from it anyway. I understood them to be implying that anyone could have the force, but I don’t see how Luke could’ve inspired them. He went from being literally “a myth” to inspiring the next generation of jedi, just because he projected an apparition of himself doing basically nothing to an audience of about 12 people? How did word of that even reach the kids down on planet whatever? And in such a short space of time? Wouldn’t they just be like, who? I dunno, I just didn’t make that link at all.
Why are you making this about girl power? What has Rey being a woman got to do with it? It's the same shit they pulled when anyone questioned the writing of her character "You're a sexist white male and can't handle strong female characters." She's not a strong female character, she's not even a character. Kylo is the only one from the entire trilogy that's close to having a character.
Between that and the trolls comment I now assume you're taking the piss.
"That's how we're going to win. Not by fighting what we hate, but by saving what we love."
Luke didn't want to fight Kylo, he just wanted to save the Resistance.
EDIT: Original comment was snarky. Deleted it.
If it's not from a sexist place than I apologize. I do find your nitpicking of her character odd, though. And what was taking the piss about the troll comment? Do explain.
It was cringe as feck and god awful. He was about to save the rest when she fecked it up so many others were to continue being in danger.
Finn had finally grown to love the resistance so much that he wanted to sacrifice his life to save them. But nope.
How did it reach people? I don't know, some space radio? The survivors told the story? It's hardly unbelievable, is it? And you're underplaying projecting himself. I'm not a canon expert but as far as I know, no Jedi had ever performed such a feat.
But what would he have achieved by killing himself? Nothing. He might have given them maybe a few seconds to get away but they'd have lost a valuable soldier in the process. Big hero moments are often performed by dumb and stupid idiots who just happen to get lucky because of talent or fortune. See: every plan the Rebels come up with in the original trilogy, Jon Snow in the Battle of the Bastards, Aragorn and his band of men at the end of Return of the King, etc.
To nick an answer from Quora: "Because he is throwing his life away uselessly on a “heroic” gesture with almost no chance of succeeding, when it would better serve the Resistance and those he cares about if he lives to fight another day.
Remember, the *actual experienced combat pilot* in this situation ordered him to break off, and Rose is the mechanic who did the preflight checks on those skimmers. They both know the odds a lot better than Finn does."
He would have destroyed the weapon that would have destroyed the base. Giving them time to figure out a way to escape or fight back.
She fecking rammes into his flight, she could have killed both of them. It was stupid as feck.
You are arguing against yourself. He wouldn't have achieved anything bar giving them a few seconds but at the same time she saved him because he would live to fight another day?
Were they doomed or not?
Am I arguing against myself? Hell, to tie it into the final act of The Rise of Skywalker, if Finn kills himself in The Last Jedi then him and that lot from Endor can't go and disable the communications tower on the Star Destroyer. Rose saved his life and indirectly saved the galaxy in the process.
We're obviously never going to agree. You think the last Jedi is the best star wars movie. I think it's the worst movie I can remember having seen at the cinema.