Film Star Wars Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker [Theories]
- Thread starter vidic blood & sand
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When you put it like that, it makes a lot more sense.
I kinda wonder if it would've worked better and pleased the fans more (aka the very online ones who really hated Snoke getting the chop) if they'd just gone and made Plagueis the big bad after all, if that's the route they really wanted to take. Would've at least avoided a complete retread of both previous trilogy finales at once. I guess they thought they needed the pre-release chatter about "how did he survive/come back?" to get bums on seats?
It's weird that this is now more accurately the "Palpatine saga" rather than the "Skywalker saga".
brilliant, really emphasises just how stupid the whole thing is.Also, did anyone find Palpatine a bit cartoony in this? It’s bad enough they brought him back, but there was something off about him.
Well, he was half dead!
Also, did anyone find Palpatine a bit cartoony in this? It’s bad enough they brought him back, but there was something off about him.
I suspect they wanted to invoke the spirit of the OG trilogy. Which was sort of made in a hodgepodge way
I agree with this. The SW fandom in particular seem to have been at each others throats for 20 years. I'm kinda over it, tbh.I'm calling a truce, guys. @Redlambs + @Art Vandelay.
I know the footage in this will have been selected to make the movie look good, but in the positive reactions we do see there's still a beautiful innocence to all of them that's made me think about things. Why don't we react to movies like that anymore? Nowadays, I feel like these people would be ripped to shreds on social media for daring to be so openly elated about a dumb movie. Either that or they'd go home and feel compelled to argue like crazy with people on the Internet about whether it was a good or bad idea to redeem Vader before he died. Maybe we're all just too invested in things now, or too aware of other peoples' reactions, or too post-modern and aware of our own imaginations, or just less impressed and harder to please? Going into The Rise of Skywalker (or Endgame even, or the Game of Thrones finale) it felt like the world was waiting with baited breath to see whether they'd fail or succeed just so they could then rip into the other team. In this video there are kids saying they hope Vader kills Luke and such, but I doubt there's anywhere for them to go for that to become properly invested in that opinion and turn it into part of their identity. This is something I'm absolutely guilty of so I apologise. I'm backing away from the argument!
Also, did anyone find Palpatine a bit cartoony in this? It’s bad enough they brought him back, but there was something off about him.
He looked a bit like Davros to me.
Yes! I knew he looked like someone, but couldn't put my finger on it. Especially
during his death where his hood comes down.
I'm calling a truce, guys. @Redlambs + @Art Vandelay.
I know the footage in this will have been selected to make the movie look good, but in the positive reactions we do see there's still a beautiful innocence to all of them that's made me think about things. Why don't we react to movies like that anymore? Nowadays, I feel like these people would be ripped to shreds on social media for daring to be so openly elated about a dumb movie. Either that or they'd go home and feel compelled to argue like crazy with people on the Internet about whether it was a good or bad idea to redeem Vader before he died. Maybe we're all just too invested in things now, or too aware of other peoples' reactions, or too post-modern and aware of our own imaginations, or just less impressed and harder to please? Going into The Rise of Skywalker (or Endgame even, or the Game of Thrones finale) it felt like the world was waiting with baited breath to see whether they'd fail or succeed just so they could then rip into the other team. In this video there are kids saying they hope Vader kills Luke and such, but I doubt there's anywhere for them to go for that to become properly invested in that opinion and turn it into part of their identity. This is something I'm absolutely guilty of so I apologise. I'm backing away from the argument!
These are reactions to the sequel of one of the most groundbreaking works of cinema; a film that captured the imagination of a generation of film goers. The Last Jedi is 8 films deep of a ever increasingly cynical franchise that has battered its fanbase. Endgame is the 50th movie off a consumer-junk movie production line. The Game of Thrones finale was the culmination of years of script neglect and cheapening of the source material.
So it seems that if you want Return reactions, or Avatar reactions, or Lord of The Rings reactions, then look early, and don't expect them by the end when the product has been farmed to within an inch of its life by cynical marketing teams and lazy producers happy to sette for cheap spectacle at the expense of creativity.
They do exist.
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I enjoyed it. It's not the best Star Wars film ever, but it's not the worst either. I loved Babu Frick
I thoroughly enjoyed this movie. Best of the 7-9 by far and for me a far, far better movie than that Marvel crap
I enjoyed it. It's not the best Star Wars film ever, but it's not the worst either. I loved Babu Frick
Babu Frick.
Agreed on that - most of the Marvel movies have been pish.
''It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” - Rich Evans
via Shakespeare
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I can think of none as bad as at least 4 of these 9 films, pish though several of them are.
Some alternative film titles:
Fast and Furious in Space
Identity Thief 2: Space Identity Thief
OK Boomer the Movie
Fast and Furious in Space
Identity Thief 2: Space Identity Thief
OK Boomer the Movie
I thought the film was good in itself for the most part, but as a trilogy it’s all over the place.
It’s a bad mixture of cliche and trying to be too different at the same time. Basically like they just didn’t know what the hell they wanted this new series to be, and had no real overarching plan whatsoever.
The fact they had to randomly resurrect the emperor, as they had no other antagonist (or storyline for that matter) in the final film says it all really.
It’s a bad mixture of cliche and trying to be too different at the same time. Basically like they just didn’t know what the hell they wanted this new series to be, and had no real overarching plan whatsoever.
The fact they had to randomly resurrect the emperor, as they had no other antagonist (or storyline for that matter) in the final film says it all really.
Disney only have themselves to blame for allowing Johnson such free reign, his film added nothing but took away the chance to really develop the story further, which left the 3rd film to have to speed up the process. Whilst I enjoyed them all individual as a trilogy the story telling his meh.
"Any time you wanna undo what's been before you need a montage....
....ooh montage......
.... Never start a film with a montage"
....ooh montage......
.... Never start a film with a montage"
Agreed. As a trilogy the second one was really the biggest failure and has been the worst of the Disney movies. It didn't set up any sort of third movie so really was just a waste. This one well considering the mess Johnson left.
People often say you couldn't go anywhere after TLJ but Johnson wrote and made it knowing there would have to be a third movie. Kinda wonder what he would have done.
I'm certain that would have been a better movie, mainly because it would have been planned properly.
Blaming TLJ is an easy pass being given to JJ. I feel like it's very naive to think that a giant movie studio with unlimited resources to hire the best in the business couldn't figure out where to take the story after TLJ. No one forced them to hire JJ and the writer of Batman vs Superman to write this thing. The more likely explanation is the backlash to TLJ spooked them so they sacked Trevorrow and they decided to play it safe with some good old fashioned JJ inspired nostalgia.
Come on, we all know it was an entirely natural progression when Empire moved seamlessly into the Ewok uprising, a second Death Star and an entirely new Emperor. R*an Johnson can only dream of such storytelling potential.
When the decisions actually made include resurrecting the emperor out of thin air, unveiling the largest armada ever seen in the whole of the galaxy and a love interest between Rey and Ren, I don't think the argument of having nowhere to go really holds water. They certainly proved that they were willing to go literally anywhere
At least they mostly left Vader alone.
It still would’ve had nothing to really carry forward. The middle film was utterly pointless as part of a trilogy and did little as a stand-alone film. For me anyway.
Saw the film yesterday, and it's close to what I expected - a visually spectacular whistle stop tour of Star Wars nostalgia, without any real attempt to explain the inconsistencies of the new films beyond "it was the force all along".
What I hate is that if you're not a Skywalker or a Palpatine then basically feck you because you're not one with the force, which kinda sticks two fingers up to the lore in exchange for a cringey fanboy wank fest.
Tbh, this is what I loved the most about The Last Jedi. A character didn't need to be "special" to have access to the Force and great power. Sure, having royal blood helped, but if a "nobody" could be a Jedi then anybody could be (hence Broom Boy). But then again, having said that, making Rey a Palpatine (despite all the questions raised by the Emperor's return) does kinda reframe Star Wars as a multi-generational Romeo & Juliet story? Two warring families eventually spawn two special children who fall in love but end up being ripped apart because their ancestors can't stop squabbling. I doubt that was Abrams' intention but it's interesting to think about. It also makes Rey and Kylo the inverse of each other, which is something the franchise has tried to put across even if it didn't quite stick the landing? I much prefer Johnson's vision (and JJ's for TFA) because it's less exclusive and more about moving the story on from the originals/prequels, but at least they tried.
Yeah, I hate it because it limits the possibilities within the universe. Any time there's a character with an unknown past we'll just say "they're a Skywalker..." and it'll probably be true.
Went to see TROS and then spent last two days re-watching TFA and TLJ, and there was some interesting fore-shadowing of Finn having force-powers, repeatedly, for example the lightsabre duel which he did surprisingly well at, but many others too--so his secret in the 3rd movie was planned all along. But similarly, as many had noticed, Rey's lightsabre fighting style was the same as Palpatine, and that was in TFA, and so actually, I think her identity as a Palpatine was planned all along, and would think Johnson knew this, but created a red herring to setup a surprise/twist in the last movie, but also strengthen the main theme of self-determination over bloodline, which she ultimately manifests by calling herself a Skywalker. Since her identity as a Palpatine was always the case, I think it's possible that Palpatine was always planned to come back. This latter trilogy in many ways is just a rehash of the original trilogy, and so the last of the trilogy would always be more about Palpatine, just as TFA was about Kylo Ren (new Darth Vader).
But one thing that strikes me watching all 3, is that the best, in terms of direction, pacing, and enjoyment, as a good film, was for me The Last Jedi. A very well-made film in and of itself. TFA was just too closely a remake of Episode 4, while TROS was garbage in terms of pacing and film-making.
But one thing that strikes me watching all 3, is that the best, in terms of direction, pacing, and enjoyment, as a good film, was for me The Last Jedi. A very well-made film in and of itself. TFA was just too closely a remake of Episode 4, while TROS was garbage in terms of pacing and film-making.
For all the hate he gets for TLJ, and some of it is rightly so I guess, Rian Johnson is a better director than JJ - but there's nothing bad about that. JJ would make a better TV show than Johnson.
You've made a few interesting points, especially about Palpatine. Makes me wish that they did a better job of lining him up through the trilogy.
This film has absolutely no heart. There's no joy in there. It's a soulless visually stunning waste of two and a bit hours. Disney done Star Wars dirty here. Really, really dirty.
Thank f*ck for The Mandalorian.
Thank f*ck for The Mandalorian.
Here is my review (read rant)
Yeah, I didn't like it either. And I really really wanted to like it. The Rey and Kylo connection in TLJ really worked with me and Luke's sacrifice in the end really set up the last movie. I so desperately wanted this movie to start from there.
Instead, they bring Palpatine back to life - that too in between movies. Rey is a Palpatine. Finn is force sensitive. Poe was a drug smuggler. It's just too much for a single movie. They tried to weave the whole nine movies into a coherent story but instead ended up with an incoherent movie that rushes to the final climax which itself was underwhelming. How did he build all of those ships and why were they dormant all this while? Why were they lined up equidistant from each other like a matrix? Why were people riding horses on those ships? Why did ships that have planet ending weapons not have a GPS?
All I wanted was a simple story where the resistance overcomes insurmountable odds to win. Rey could have faced her demons and come up trumps. Or rather she could have fallen to the dark side temporarily and Kylo could have brought her back.
There is so much wrong with this movie that it has left a bad taste in my mouth. Even the very last scene was disappointing. All you needed to defeat Palpatine was one more lightsaber. The dude who plotted and executed the most effective conspiracy against the world dominating cult and obliterated them from the face of the Earth just couldn't stop electrocuting himself.
Instead, they bring Palpatine back to life - that too in between movies. Rey is a Palpatine. Finn is force sensitive. Poe was a drug smuggler. It's just too much for a single movie. They tried to weave the whole nine movies into a coherent story but instead ended up with an incoherent movie that rushes to the final climax which itself was underwhelming. How did he build all of those ships and why were they dormant all this while? Why were they lined up equidistant from each other like a matrix? Why were people riding horses on those ships? Why did ships that have planet ending weapons not have a GPS?
All I wanted was a simple story where the resistance overcomes insurmountable odds to win. Rey could have faced her demons and come up trumps. Or rather she could have fallen to the dark side temporarily and Kylo could have brought her back.
There is so much wrong with this movie that it has left a bad taste in my mouth. Even the very last scene was disappointing. All you needed to defeat Palpatine was one more lightsaber. The dude who plotted and executed the most effective conspiracy against the world dominating cult and obliterated them from the face of the Earth just couldn't stop electrocuting himself.
I liked it and I enjoyed the new trilogy. I say this as somone who has seen all the other movies a few times without being a mega fan. Found them enjoyable, without picking them apart.
Imagine two characters; one is incredibly powerful and the first person since Anakin that potentially could become to greatest Force user of all time, but they have to overcome mental barriers and the lure of the dark side. And the other character is the same except without any of those obstacles being anything other than a mere annoyance.
Which one is more interesting, and why did JJ choose the less interesting one? Rey had so much potential and she was just a cardboard cut out. I'm eagerly awaiting the Disney version of KOTOR where Revan and Bastila are just turned into a power couple...
Which one is more interesting, and why did JJ choose the less interesting one? Rey had so much potential and she was just a cardboard cut out. I'm eagerly awaiting the Disney version of KOTOR where Revan and Bastila are just turned into a power couple...
I don't even know which fanboys it was supposed to appease. It was never a good idea and again was something Disney did to themselves, they used a classic JJ mystery box where he presents a mystery which he doesn't actually have any solution to by making Rey's parents unknown then decided to pull something out of his arse as the big reveal. There was never any need to make them a mystery, she could have been no one from the start and it would have cut out several of the problems. They basically invited all the speculation and there was really nowhere to go with it, if she's going to be someone then it has to be Skywalker, Palpatine or Kenobi. Making her no one was the perfect solution and for some reason they retconned that too.
It's mental how they even managed to make a complete bollocks out of stuff they'd previously fixed. They were literally just putting stuff on screen and hoping for the best.
You'd hope they would know better than to put Revan on screen. Part of his appeal is the ownership people had over him, he was partially created by the player, his dialogue was their choice, his ending their choice and everything after KOTOR with him hasn't worked. I don't see how a film or series with him could work and even if it could Disney have proven that they cannot be trusted with it.
Yeah his death was so stupid. Everyone knew going into it that he was going to die at the hands of Mary Sue, and it was going to be terrible. And it was
They really fecked Palpatine over in my opinion. I guess being thrown down a pit in ROTJ wasn’t the most fitting death either, but he really did go out like a punk this time. After all he’d done in the 8 films previous...
They should’ve just adapted the thrawn books instead. The funny thing is, this is what Disney do, and it works! I’ve never seen the Marvel films but people love them, and they’re critically successful. Then Kathleen Kennedy moaned that there wasn’t any source material to adapt so they had to make it up as they went along. It’s like she wasn’t aware of all these other stories just sat there waiting. So much wasted potential
If they have any sense then their next trilogy of films (if they make them) will be:
A) Completely seperate to these films and featuring no characters who already exist (or are related to to anyone who already exists) in the SW universe.
B) Will not only be reluctant to ape previous films but will actively look to do something new both in terms of content an structure.
C) Will be directed by better director(s) than JJ Abrams, preferably just one.
D) Will have an over-arching plan and vision for all three films from the beginning.
A) Completely seperate to these films and featuring no characters who already exist (or are related to to anyone who already exists) in the SW universe.
B) Will not only be reluctant to ape previous films but will actively look to do something new both in terms of content an structure.
C) Will be directed by better director(s) than JJ Abrams, preferably just one.
D) Will have an over-arching plan and vision for all three films from the beginning.
Yeah, that would be the sensible route but it doesn't seem like they have that kind of sense. I think Kathleen Kennedy needs to go too, this is mostly her fault.
I think the next one is Obi Wan. If Solo is anything to go by then we might find out where he got his brown robe from ANH and at what point his hair went grey.