I said this too, and maybe having the good guys reluctantly have to side with Kylo to stop Rey.
At least something a little different you know.
Film Star Wars Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker [Theories]
- Thread starter vidic blood & sand
- Start date
At least something a little different you know.
Clusterfeck of a film. The story & pacing was all over the place, but I still managed to enjoy it. Much better than TLJ, but the trilogy as a whole feels pointless & adds very little to what came before.
Kind of makes Anakin’s prophecy a bit pointless brining Palpatine back.
Kind of makes Anakin’s prophecy a bit pointless brining Palpatine back.
Is that not the same for any film that’s been re visited in the last 10/15 years? Especially for people that are massive fans of an original version, nothing will ever stand up to it.
I think it's hilarious that SW directors have to speak like politicians urging calm in the aftermath of some terrible event. "Those with opposing views are not the enemy".
Is this still a theories thread or are we discussing the movie here?
I...actually liked it?
I'd still look back fondly at rogue one.
Nothing tops the original because of what it was, and how big it changes everything back then. The first starwars was almost 40 years ago but it doesnt age too badly.
You can remake a movie but you really cant remake the myth, the expectations, the era, and many other things of the past.
Watching all the visuals which is 100x better than the original seems hollow in 2020.
I enjoyed but agreed that it pandered to fan service.
They should have continued the last Jedi route. Made Rey evil. Ben the hero at the end. Or something.
I always hate when a movie isn’t brave enough. Just like Frozen 2, the movie should have let the lead die.
They should have continued the last Jedi route. Made Rey evil. Ben the hero at the end. Or something.
I always hate when a movie isn’t brave enough. Just like Frozen 2, the movie should have let the lead die.
Female jedi lead character, first time in the Star Wars films...there was absolutely no chance of making her evil.
The more I think about this the worse it gets, and I think a lot of it has to do with bringing back the Emperor. Doing so creates problems that manage not only to undermine the previous films in the sequel trilogy, but also the original trilogy as well. The only trilogy it doesn't undermine is the prequels, which, um.
The idea that resonates the most from the original trilogy (and even more so from the first two films of this sequel trilogy) is that your destiny isn't preordained. If your father is evil and his boss is planning everything so that you turn to the dark side, that doesn't matter if you know right from wrong. It's a simple message to take home but George Lucas never claimed it was anything deeper than that. In this trilogy, the idea that Rey was a nobody (and that Kylo turned evil despite his parentage) meant that being the offspring of junk traders (or having a Skywalker for a mother) wouldn't stop you from achieving big things and making a difference (or turning evil). You don't have to be "special" or have significant lineage to be powerful or talented or whatever - instead of learning to use the Force, the Force will find you. It's not the most original message to send everyone home with but it at least finds a new angle to make the story of this trilogy feel worth it.
Making Rey a Palpatine who dismisses the Sith way and instead chooses to be a Skywalker just communicates the exact same message as the end of Return of the Jedi. Nothing new has been learned from this entire trilogy when the framework was right there for Abrams to give it to us. The Force Awakens established these new characters and The Last Jedi told us explicitly that they weren't beholden to the myths of the past.The Rise of Skywalker has backtracked on all of that to repeat the exact same morals and messages as a film that already exists in the same universe. Instead of making Rey her own person and something of an individual in this universe, they've just made her Luke... again.
It's not going back on the previous films that's really the problem, though. It's the fact that it spends so much time pressing the reset button that it takes on the appearance of a cowardly cut and paste job. It treats the previous two films like inconvenient red herrings for so long, and it wastes so much time trying to reverse everything they introduced, that it has zero time left to establish any kind of emotional conflict in the final act when it actually has to start telling a story. And that's the biggest problem of all - as a standalone film, this is loaded with plot but barely tells an actual story. The first 75 minutes is just an endless series of side quests and fake-outs, and the last hour is just a series of moments calculated precisely to make you feel something, as opposed to an actual emotional culmination of everything we've watched up to this point. And when everything eventually calms the feck down, all we're left with is the exact same message that was given to us by a film released more than thirty years ago (only with a new YELLOW lightsaber because hey, Disney).
Sigh. I dropped my expectations for this because I just wanted to be entertained. And, like, making films is really fecking hard. Harder than any of us could ever imagine, unless any of us have done it ourselves. But making films is a lot easier when you decide what you want to do and stick to that vision, not just making a film based on what you think everyone else wants you to do. They juggled too much for this and they didn't organise themselves properly, so this is what we're left with! Yay!
Making Rey a Palpatine who dismisses the Sith way and instead chooses to be a Skywalker just communicates the exact same message as the end of Return of the Jedi. Nothing new has been learned from this entire trilogy when the framework was right there for Abrams to give it to us. The Force Awakens established these new characters and The Last Jedi told us explicitly that they weren't beholden to the myths of the past.The Rise of Skywalker has backtracked on all of that to repeat the exact same morals and messages as a film that already exists in the same universe. Instead of making Rey her own person and something of an individual in this universe, they've just made her Luke... again.
It's not going back on the previous films that's really the problem, though. It's the fact that it spends so much time pressing the reset button that it takes on the appearance of a cowardly cut and paste job. It treats the previous two films like inconvenient red herrings for so long, and it wastes so much time trying to reverse everything they introduced, that it has zero time left to establish any kind of emotional conflict in the final act when it actually has to start telling a story. And that's the biggest problem of all - as a standalone film, this is loaded with plot but barely tells an actual story. The first 75 minutes is just an endless series of side quests and fake-outs, and the last hour is just a series of moments calculated precisely to make you feel something, as opposed to an actual emotional culmination of everything we've watched up to this point. And when everything eventually calms the feck down, all we're left with is the exact same message that was given to us by a film released more than thirty years ago (only with a new YELLOW lightsaber because hey, Disney).
Sigh. I dropped my expectations for this because I just wanted to be entertained. And, like, making films is really fecking hard. Harder than any of us could ever imagine, unless any of us have done it ourselves. But making films is a lot easier when you decide what you want to do and stick to that vision, not just making a film based on what you think everyone else wants you to do. They juggled too much for this and they didn't organise themselves properly, so this is what we're left with! Yay!
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Just saw it. It's a mess of a movie pacing is all over the place and the story beats are ridiculous. Rey is op af and the jokes are terrible.
Yet somehow I had a good time with it.
Yet somehow I had a good time with it.
That was a shit fest and never really felt like anything was on the line. Ever. Where the feck did this Sith planet get all the resources to build these ships without the rebels or the first order knowing?
The Last Jedi did out a spanner in the works, but any writer worth their salt could have made a decent sequel from it. Kylo turns completely to the dark side and must be redeemed by Rey, or Rey's training isn't complete and she slowly falls to the dark side and Kylo must redeem her, or they both vie for power and ultimately destroy one another, or help each other turn to the Light side. Chewbacca is secretly an Ancient Sith Lord and Darth Palagius' great grandmother. Anything other than "oh, Established Nostalgia Character #407 has come back because of reasons".
Kind of does undermine the prequels because that's where the whole "chosen one" stuff comes from, with Anakin destroying the sith (aka himself and old Palpy), which this now undoes. Although I'm not overly bothered about that, because the prophecy stuff is boring lorewankery.
Also
the lightsaber stuff was dumb. Just give her the new one from the start rather than continually burying her in the past. Even when she's supposedly moving out on her own, she still takes Luke's name ffs.
FFS
Anyone else notice the saber they kept saying was Luke's was actually Vader's and the saber they said was Leia's was actually Luke's?
FFS
Even when they bother doing something with the original characters that doesn't involve bending to Rey they then leave it out. Brilliant.It's a Sunday. I've had nothing else to do.
Ranking:
The Last Jedi
The Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
The Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
Revenge of the Sith
Solo
The Rise of Skywalker
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
This honestly gets worse the more I think about it. I want to put myself through Cats as soon as possible just to have something else to analyse and pick apart. I've seen The Rise of Skywalker twice now but I don't think I want to put myself through it again, even to analyse it. The first time I saw it (on Dec 20), I had some small issues with the plot and big problems with the execution. During my second viewing (on Dec 21) I had small problems with the execution and big problems with the plot. Having sat and fully digested it now, it turns out I have big problems with the execution and even bigger issues with the plot.
Simply put, thinking about this film for even a day or two has only revealed to me that it's a cowardly retcon of everything that made this sequel trilogy feel so refreshing until about three months ago. Not just in the context of Star Wars but in the current arena of blockbuster filmmaking. After the first two films, I heard the message loud and clear: the past doesn't matter, you don't have to be "special" (or connected to the previous trilogies by blood) to become a Jedi. It was optimistic, progressive, and inclusive filmmaking. To call The Rise of Skywalker a regression would be generous, and it should have been clear the moment we heard Palpatine's laugh in the teaser.
For years on the Internet we've hypothetically joked that closing chapters of stories would be complete chaos if they were written by the entitled amateur screenwriters we see in comments sections every now and then. That hypothetical scenario no longer exists. It is here. It's been swallowed whole by J.J. Abrams & Chris Terrio and spat out in the form of this pandering, algorithmic final story in the world's most famous saga. The conclusions this film reaches generally make sense within the Star Wars universe, but the implications and end results of those conclusions are concerning - to the point where I now wonder what the point of this new trilogy was.
Because this film ends with Rey rejecting the Sith and choosing the Skywalker way instead, the emotional message we get to take home from The Rise of Skywalker is a direct retread of Return of the Jedi. To put this another way, the "Skywalker saga" has ended up in exactly the same place it was in 2014. Those new ideas introduced by The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, which reinvigorated a tired series that was in need of some outsider perspective, are continually undermined and erased as Abrams returns to the kind of exclusive, insular, lore-heavy storytelling that made the prequels so self-indulgent and tiresome.
With that being said, I think I could forgive most of the feeble, unimaginative plot conclusions if this film ever felt like it was telling a story, but it doesn't. Ever. Instead what you get are a series of incidents and moments which are simply lined up next to one another as the script indiscriminately races through them. It piles on the crowbarred exposition to get from A to B as quickly as possible, there are numerous pathetic fake deaths and hilariously convenient resolutions at every fork in the road, and the endless stream of directionless side-missions never seems to stop.
You think that beloved character is dead? They're not. You think that other beloved character is going to have to sacrifice his memory? Well, he doesn't. You think Rey is going to be given space to comprehend (or even question) the news that she's the granddaughter of the saga's main villain? Well, she isn't. You think it's a problem that one of the many MacGuffins this film introduces has been lost? Don't worry, there's always another. That character you all hated from The Last Jedi? She's sidelined completely. This all means that there's almost no conflict, no drama, no stakes, no suspense, no tension, nothing to worry about, no speculation, no doubt, no questioning, no reflection, no space to breathe, no character building, no grand plan, no consequences. Just, nothing.
One thing Abrams has nailed is his cast. Daisy Ridley is the beating heart of this franchise and her performance here is no different. Kylo Ren has precisely one line of dialogue in the final act ("Ow!") but Adam Driver still manages to communicate every single step of his emotional journey during entirely wordless sequences. Oscar Isaac and John Boyega have terrific chemistry together and their interactions are always electric. The four of them have given this generation new characters to really love and really root for. Even when the script is forcing them to do things that don't track, they're giving every inch of themselves to be convincing in their final appearances in these roles. They carry certain scenes brilliantly and their energy in front of the camera is what prevents this from ever being boring.
Another success of this film is that, regardless of the story losing confidence and lacking perception, the Star Wars universe still feels wonderful to be inside of. The environments and planets are never around for long enough as we carelessly careen around the galaxy in the first hour, but the worlds are evocative and immersive. The colourful Festival of the Ancestors on Pasaana, the steep and snowy towns of Kijimi, the storm-ridden and pastoral landscapes of Endor. Abrams might have given up on trying to tell a story with this, but at the very least he hasn't lost his appetite and enthusiasm for worldbuilding. The world and the characters who inhabit it remain as fun as ever, which puts this miles above the prequels in terms of technical expertise.
The use of C-3PO in the first act was was far better than I expected, too.
But when it all adds up to a repeated conclusion that's 36 years old now, you're left wondering what the last five years of Star Wars were all for. The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi weren't perfect films by any means but they both had clear, defined purposes from the outset and largely delivered on those purposes: to establish a new trilogy with fresh ideas, then to take those fresh ideas and untie the weight-bags of the past. Clear, direct, sorted. The Rise of Skywalker, on the other hand, retreats into itself and offers up a cut and paste resolution that's taken almost verbatim from the original trilogy, significantly decreasing the size of this universe in the process. It's begging for forgiveness.
As this film approaches its final stages, Luke Skywalker's force ghost sits Rey down and tells her not to give in to fear. The film surrounding him, however, bows out by admitting that its creators weren't big enough or brave enough to stand up to anonymous voices on the Internet expressing their discontent. Regardless of the reasons why, or the behind-the-scenes problems experienced along the way, it will always be remembered as the trilogy that surrendered its creative vision to corporate safety and wilted in the face of criticism. Considering how confidently this trilogy opened, and given how boldly it continued on, it's just a massive shame to see it end like this.
This feels like a crucial moment in the three-way war between corporate ownership, creative direction, and fan entitlement. It doesn't feel like a good moment.
Simply put, thinking about this film for even a day or two has only revealed to me that it's a cowardly retcon of everything that made this sequel trilogy feel so refreshing until about three months ago. Not just in the context of Star Wars but in the current arena of blockbuster filmmaking. After the first two films, I heard the message loud and clear: the past doesn't matter, you don't have to be "special" (or connected to the previous trilogies by blood) to become a Jedi. It was optimistic, progressive, and inclusive filmmaking. To call The Rise of Skywalker a regression would be generous, and it should have been clear the moment we heard Palpatine's laugh in the teaser.
For years on the Internet we've hypothetically joked that closing chapters of stories would be complete chaos if they were written by the entitled amateur screenwriters we see in comments sections every now and then. That hypothetical scenario no longer exists. It is here. It's been swallowed whole by J.J. Abrams & Chris Terrio and spat out in the form of this pandering, algorithmic final story in the world's most famous saga. The conclusions this film reaches generally make sense within the Star Wars universe, but the implications and end results of those conclusions are concerning - to the point where I now wonder what the point of this new trilogy was.
Because this film ends with Rey rejecting the Sith and choosing the Skywalker way instead, the emotional message we get to take home from The Rise of Skywalker is a direct retread of Return of the Jedi. To put this another way, the "Skywalker saga" has ended up in exactly the same place it was in 2014. Those new ideas introduced by The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, which reinvigorated a tired series that was in need of some outsider perspective, are continually undermined and erased as Abrams returns to the kind of exclusive, insular, lore-heavy storytelling that made the prequels so self-indulgent and tiresome.
With that being said, I think I could forgive most of the feeble, unimaginative plot conclusions if this film ever felt like it was telling a story, but it doesn't. Ever. Instead what you get are a series of incidents and moments which are simply lined up next to one another as the script indiscriminately races through them. It piles on the crowbarred exposition to get from A to B as quickly as possible, there are numerous pathetic fake deaths and hilariously convenient resolutions at every fork in the road, and the endless stream of directionless side-missions never seems to stop.
You think that beloved character is dead? They're not. You think that other beloved character is going to have to sacrifice his memory? Well, he doesn't. You think Rey is going to be given space to comprehend (or even question) the news that she's the granddaughter of the saga's main villain? Well, she isn't. You think it's a problem that one of the many MacGuffins this film introduces has been lost? Don't worry, there's always another. That character you all hated from The Last Jedi? She's sidelined completely. This all means that there's almost no conflict, no drama, no stakes, no suspense, no tension, nothing to worry about, no speculation, no doubt, no questioning, no reflection, no space to breathe, no character building, no grand plan, no consequences. Just, nothing.
One thing Abrams has nailed is his cast. Daisy Ridley is the beating heart of this franchise and her performance here is no different. Kylo Ren has precisely one line of dialogue in the final act ("Ow!") but Adam Driver still manages to communicate every single step of his emotional journey during entirely wordless sequences. Oscar Isaac and John Boyega have terrific chemistry together and their interactions are always electric. The four of them have given this generation new characters to really love and really root for. Even when the script is forcing them to do things that don't track, they're giving every inch of themselves to be convincing in their final appearances in these roles. They carry certain scenes brilliantly and their energy in front of the camera is what prevents this from ever being boring.
Another success of this film is that, regardless of the story losing confidence and lacking perception, the Star Wars universe still feels wonderful to be inside of. The environments and planets are never around for long enough as we carelessly careen around the galaxy in the first hour, but the worlds are evocative and immersive. The colourful Festival of the Ancestors on Pasaana, the steep and snowy towns of Kijimi, the storm-ridden and pastoral landscapes of Endor. Abrams might have given up on trying to tell a story with this, but at the very least he hasn't lost his appetite and enthusiasm for worldbuilding. The world and the characters who inhabit it remain as fun as ever, which puts this miles above the prequels in terms of technical expertise.
The use of C-3PO in the first act was was far better than I expected, too.
But when it all adds up to a repeated conclusion that's 36 years old now, you're left wondering what the last five years of Star Wars were all for. The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi weren't perfect films by any means but they both had clear, defined purposes from the outset and largely delivered on those purposes: to establish a new trilogy with fresh ideas, then to take those fresh ideas and untie the weight-bags of the past. Clear, direct, sorted. The Rise of Skywalker, on the other hand, retreats into itself and offers up a cut and paste resolution that's taken almost verbatim from the original trilogy, significantly decreasing the size of this universe in the process. It's begging for forgiveness.
As this film approaches its final stages, Luke Skywalker's force ghost sits Rey down and tells her not to give in to fear. The film surrounding him, however, bows out by admitting that its creators weren't big enough or brave enough to stand up to anonymous voices on the Internet expressing their discontent. Regardless of the reasons why, or the behind-the-scenes problems experienced along the way, it will always be remembered as the trilogy that surrendered its creative vision to corporate safety and wilted in the face of criticism. Considering how confidently this trilogy opened, and given how boldly it continued on, it's just a massive shame to see it end like this.
This feels like a crucial moment in the three-way war between corporate ownership, creative direction, and fan entitlement. It doesn't feel like a good moment.
The Last Jedi
The Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
The Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
Revenge of the Sith
Solo
The Rise of Skywalker
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
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@robinamicrowave I think if you keep going, you can talk yourself into liking it.
Someone ranks The Last Jedi as the best Star Wars movie. Holy feck.
I went to see it today, really enjoyed it. All the hate just seems a bit too cool for school really. What do people want? It's a Star Wars film for feck sake.
One thing I will say is though they should leave it alone now. Another trilogy would just be overkill and there's no need for it.
One thing I will say is though they should leave it alone now. Another trilogy would just be overkill and there's no need for it.
There’s money to be made. Disney didn’t buy it to make one trilogy.
I mean, come on. It's one thing to try and act all "it's so different" even though it really wasn't, but feck me was it dull and just as same as all the others. Some people have taken want Johson did waaaay too far, all he did was piss off some fans, the film itself doesn't stray from the formula at all
I totally get that and of course they're not going to. Some things are best just left alone though.
Not gonna happen. They'll be pumping out films for as long as there's money in it for them.
At best you'll get films that aren't part of the Skywalker story but even then, if we've learned anything from these more recent films it's that Star Wars fans love fan service. How long until they decide it would be a great idea to make a character in a new film related to someone from these films?
Kylo Ren definitely had some bastard kids, I have no doubt they’ll pop out in the future.
There is a 3-year gap to the next one. With how the reception to this one is looking. I can pretty much guarantee it will not a 'fan service' movie. Have no idea what it will be, just know it won't be EP 10. I think that will come on the 50th anniversary.
To be fair TLJ tops a chart. The chart of the most boring segment in a star wars movie where Fin and the other character whose name I don't even remember, chase something on some (casino?) planet for what seemed to me like an hour.
When you ignore that, and the plot, it's actually a decent film.
The only intriguing parts for me were Rey's and the connection with Kylo Ren which at the time gave me some hope this whole thing could turn into something.
When you ignore that, and the plot, it's actually a decent film.
The only intriguing parts for me were Rey's and the connection with Kylo Ren which at the time gave me some hope this whole thing could turn into something.
They've got MCU guy now, so it's a-coming.
All things considered, this is actually what I like so much about it. It would be easy for a film with The Last Jedi's reflective intentions to feel slightly off, or for it to take a dismissive view of how Star Wars makes people feel. But it never once disrespects the atmosphere of the universe and actually retains quite a lot of the intangible aesthetics and warmth of how these films usually feel. As I've stressed multiple times, I don't think the film is without its flaws. When I first saw it in the cinema I thought it was pretty good and I liked the angle it took to tell its story, but I thought it was ever so slightly underwhelming and I didn't bother going to see it again. Then one day I had an idea to take my girlfriend through the entire saga (with some friends of mine who are Star Wars obsessives) and make a podcast show about it, just as a hobby. We watched the films in release order (roughly) so it meant that The Last Jedi was the final film we covered, and after taking in everything the saga had to offer I saw The Last Jedi with completely new eyes. As a Star Wars experience it was really refreshing, almost everything I'd come to expect, and it gave me more than I asked for. It doesn't stray from the formula, you're right - it stays within the formula while mining it for its own investigations. Beyond saying that I think it's greater than the sum of its parts, I can't really offer up much more of a defence.
I mean, come on. It's one thing to try and act all "it's so different" even though it really wasn't, but feck me was it dull and just as same as all the others. Some people have taken want Johson did waaaay too far, all he did was piss off some fans, the film itself doesn't stray from the formula at all
The key thing to remember when ranking Star Wars films is that they're mostly not all that good. Empire is a good film, the first one has a shonky charm but beyond that....
TLJ isn't Citizen Kane but it would probably be in my top three regardless.
TLJ isn't Citizen Kane but it would probably be in my top three regardless.
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I enjoyed it.
We love to criticise films and TV shows, especially the last ones of a saga/series because they don't match how we want them to end and we also don't really want them to end either so it's really easy to be hyper critical throughout the film but if you just watched it as a fan of the series and took in what was on show then it was entertaining and the characters are great.
It's the same shit as GoT S8. Hate everything in part because you don't want it to end. Hate everything in part because you'd have ended it differently. Hate everything in part because it's cool to hate and criticise and appear like you're a film/TV savant who can highlight every little detail and find a problem. Bring on the adenoidal nerding.
We love to criticise films and TV shows, especially the last ones of a saga/series because they don't match how we want them to end and we also don't really want them to end either so it's really easy to be hyper critical throughout the film but if you just watched it as a fan of the series and took in what was on show then it was entertaining and the characters are great.
It's the same shit as GoT S8. Hate everything in part because you don't want it to end. Hate everything in part because you'd have ended it differently. Hate everything in part because it's cool to hate and criticise and appear like you're a film/TV savant who can highlight every little detail and find a problem. Bring on the adenoidal nerding.
Exactly.
so basically shut up and swallow the tripe is your advice
Yeah. Basically.
It's not like a single Star Wars film has been anywhere near Oscar-worthy is it?
We love the franchise because we do, we don't love them because they're generally good films. Only Empire is half decent if you look at it objectively with the fan goggles off.
Either enjoy it for what it is or don't bother watching. Those are your two options.
So there's no "hate it in part because you just think it's crap"?
The opposite end to the nerd argument is just as hilarious to me. It's fun watching you all go at it, forgetting that despite the twitter extremes, some of us still like watching films, listening to music, playing games and just have opinions about them.
But don't mind me, carry on!
So there's no "hate it in part because you just think it's crap"?
The opposite end to the nerd argument is just as hilarious to me. It's fun watching you all go at it, forgetting that despite the twitter extremes, some of us still like watching films, listening to music, playing games and just have opinions about them.
But don't mind me, carry on!
There is the 'hate it in part because you just think it's crap' but it then depends on what you're judging it against, at least for me.
Other Star Wars films because you're a fan?
Other Star Wars films because you're not a fan?
Other films of the same type because you're a fan?
Other films of the same type because you're not a fan?
This film on it's own merits regardless inclusive of the series?
This film on it's own merits full stop, forgetting the series?
It was an enjoyable few hours. It's not a great film but it's not crap. None of the latest three have been anywhere near as awful as the prequels and even then, production-wise they're miles ahead of both the prequels and the originals too so there's lots to enjoy from that side of film nerding too. Star Wars has always been an enjoyable few hours for nerds. None of them are actually great films.
But then, that's just my opinion and you are entirely able to hate it because you think it's crap.
That's a lot of words, but you do realise you haven't actually said what it does that makes it "refreshing" or what it actually "mines"? You've told the podcast story before, you've said it's bigger than it's sum before, but through it all your wordy posts you have failed to actually say how. D- at best mate
Anyway I've asked numerous times in SW threads why people think it's actually done anything different, but there's never an answer. It honestly looks like people like it more simply because it's not a nostalgia throwback quite as much as the others (despite still obviously being one) and because Johnson went on and on about changing things (which he actually didn't). I mean I love laughing at manchildren as much as the next guy, but I obviously don't see how it stands out either as a well made film or story.
It's not that it's crap, it's that you are trying to be clever about opinions. You are at the extreme other end of the raging nerds, not that that's necessarily a bad thing, I just find both ends amusing is all.
Even this thing of "none of them are great!" has been said how many times on this page alone? I mean that's great and true and all, but why does that mean others should be treated exactly the same? In any case I don't consider this a "crap" film, just fails as an ending to this big space saga. But it's as watchable as any of the others and as a spectacle still very much a mindless watch.
Opinions.
When I make long posts explaining how I feel as best I can, they get the "tl;dr" treatment and end up ignored. When I try to summarise my feelings and keep them as brief as possible, I get told I haven't explained myself well enough. I can't win.That's a lot of words, but you do realise you haven't actually said what it does that makes it "refreshing" or what it actually "mines"? You've told the podcast story before, you've said it's bigger than it's sum before, but through it all your wordy posts you have failed to actually say how. D- at best mate
Anyway I've asked numerous times in SW threads why people think it's actually done anything different, but there's never an answer. It honestly looks like people like it more simply because it's not a nostalgia throwback quite as much as the others (despite still obviously being one) and because Johnson went on and on about changing things (which he actually didn't). I mean I love laughing at manchildren as much as the next guy, but I obviously don't see how it stands out either as a well made film or story.