Spurs 2018/19

[SquishyMcSquish]

Yeah that's true, but it's a big if as teams on the whole have a tendancy to go backwards as often as they improve. Especially in the PL in the last 5 years or so.

I mean, City improved last year, but before that they were leaping backwards and forwards from one year to the next...they might even do the same again for all anyone knows yet. Liverpool until last year have not significantly improved for me, and even last year if you take the CL run out, they didn't really. United I think have improved in the last few years, but the majority on here would argue otherwise. Chelsea cetainly haven't...they've been all over the place. Arsenal have gotten progressively worse from one year to the next.

I think the bigger problem is that if you keep the team the same too long it tends to go a bit stale, or the hunger starts to disappear...but that usually happens as a result of success. If they are serious about winning trophies I think they need to sign better players. If Pochettino wants to be taken seriously as a top manager he needs to start winning things...or at least stop claiming he is happy not to. If the idea is to just be in amongst the top four though, I don't thnk they'll go too far wrong.

He has nowhere near the resources of managers that win things. He's a top manager because he rebuilt a completely failing team in to one which can compete for the top four in a highly competitive league, on an extremely small budget. When he took over we were a complete joke (Mentioned it already but the 5-0 home loss against Liverpool remains a particular highlight) and he has completely changed that, again whilst being hamstrung by a lack of ability to spend big on transfers, and the fact we aren't able to sign top quality talent due to wage constraits.

He's done an incredible job here, one I think very few managers in the world could have replicated. Any club who got him would be extremely fortunate and if they fully backed him in the transfer market and gave him time to establish his philosophy, they would soon start winning trophies.

 

[africanspur]

It’s a £400m facility which to me means they can take £400m from it for stadium costs. They did have a £200m facility from which they’ve already taken £100m. Which has been replaced. To me that means if they use all that new facility then they’ve borrowed £500m. Of course they might not need the whole £400m. The statement says £340m has already been spent so if the stadium costs are as high as you’re saying then it seems to me that they will be using it all. In which case they’ve borrowed over £500m.

That isn't what that means to me in the slightest. If someone tells me that something has replaced something else, then to me that is what it has done. It has not added to the loan, especially as it is coming from the same bank.

The £340 million includes the £100million drawn so includes £240 million the club has spent of its own money.

 

[acnumber9]

That isn't what that means to me in the slightest. If someone tells me that something has replaced something else, then to me that is what it has done. It has not added to the loan, especially as it is coming from the same bank.

The £340 million includes the £100million drawn so includes £240 million the club has spent of its own money.

It’s not really a traditional bank loan though. It’s a facility to borrow money. The first one they’ve borrowed £100m from and the second is a £400m facility from which we don’t know for sure what has been borrowed. If the stadium cost is what you have estimated then borrowing an extra £300m on top of what has been spent is leaving a £200m shortfall.

 

[africanspur]

It’s not really a traditional bank loan though. It’s a facility to borrow money. The first one they’ve borrowed £100m from and the second is a £400m facility from which we don’t know for sure what has been borrowed. If the stadium cost is what you have estimated then borrowing an extra £300m on top of what has been spent is leaving a £200m shortfall.

Nobody is saying it is a traditional bank loan, I'm talking solely about the wording used, rather than about whether its a high street loan.

There would be a shortfall even if what you say is true. A shortfall that I'm sure would be made up with other ways.

It isn't like we have to drop £850 million on someone's desk tomorrow to pay for the stadium.

 

[acnumber9]

Nobody is saying it is a traditional bank loan, I'm talking solely about the wording used, rather than about whether its a high street loan.

There would be a shortfall even if what you say is true. A shortfall that I'm sure would be made up with other ways.

It isn't like we have to drop £850 million on someone's desk tomorrow to pay for the stadium.

Maybe you’re right. I really don’t know enough about it to be sure in fairness. Just my summation based on the figures bandied about.

Yes there is a shortfall which is the point being made regarding how much of it has to be borrowed. If the stadium costs are what you estimate and you’re right about there only being £400m borrowed to date it still leaves over £200m that’s needs to be borrowed or owed. Unless Spurs have £200m sitting about that we don’t know about. Which ridicules the notion of what has been ‘diverted’ and that Spurs have much more money to spend when they move to this new eutopia.

 

[noodlehair]

He has nowhere near the resources of managers that win things. He's a top manager because he rebuilt a completely failing team in to one which can compete for the top four in a highly competitive league, on an extremely small budget. When he took over we were a complete joke (Mentioned it already but the 5-0 home loss against Liverpool remains a particular highlight) and he has completely changed that, again whilst being hamstrung by a lack of ability to spend big on transfers, and the fact we aren't able to sign top quality talent due to wage constraits.

He's done an incredible job here, one I think very few managers in the world could have replicated. Any club who got him would be extremely fortunate and if they fully backed him in the transfer market and gave him time to establish his philosophy, they would soon start winning trophies.

I'm not denying he's done a very good job, not just at Spurs but Southampton too, but you just can't put him in the top bracket when his biggest achievement is the same thing that people mock or criticise the likes of Wenger for.

The resources thing is an excuse. It might have some validity to it but it's still an excuse. He reportedly could have taken the Real Madrid job...or he could tell Levy he wants to win things and needs more resources to do it. He could just ome oout and say he wants to win the league or the CL. Make that the levell he measures success by. Being happy with 2nd, 3rd or 4th and not winning a trophy just leaves a question mark about whether he's actually capable or willing to do any better.

At the moment his idea of a succesful season is one that the likes of Mourinho, Guirdiola, Klopp etc. would consider an unuccesful one. It's all well and good saying "if he had better resources" or "if he was at a bigger club"...that's no different to Jose repeatedly pointing out that if United had spent the same money City have, he might have been able to finish above them.

 

[B20]

The quote you give from Pochettino (and then claim that Levy "obviously doesn't" agree with the sentiments expressed) precedes Pochettino signing a new contract. This tells me - and ought to tell anyone sensible - that Pochettino and Levy are on the same page and that your wishful-thinking interpretation is wide of the mark.

It tells us that is that pochettino believed so when he signed the contract.

Nor is it obvious, despite your claim otherwise, that Pochettino's comments were a call for lots of money to be spent on new players, especially since, as I've already said, it's much more likely that his first concern was for our existing better players to be kept at the club via new contracts: you know the old saying … a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

This must be dismissed as nonsense. No manager talks about contract renewals in terms of taking risks in order to start winning titles.

You sound like a republican trying to defend trump's latest tweet.

Your "wishful thinking" comment only confirms that, as you imagine my arguments are somehow derogatory towards spurs when I am in fact only asking the questions any fan who wants to see his teams to win trophies more than balance sheets would.

If I saw a liverpool fan making this kind of argument I would denounce him as a misguided shill.

But in any case, as I keep saying, you speak as if the window is closed for transfers. It isn't. So even if you want to believe your interpretation of what constitutes the risk-taking that Pochettino cites, your conclusions are premature.

My comments are made in the light of his recent comments about possibly no incoming transfers.

 

[Kag]

He has nowhere near the resources of managers that win things. He's a top manager because he rebuilt a completely failing team in to one which can compete for the top four in a highly competitive league, on an extremely small budget. When he took over we were a complete joke (Mentioned it already but the 5-0 home loss against Liverpool remains a particular highlight) and he has completely changed that, again whilst being hamstrung by a lack of ability to spend big on transfers, and the fact we aren't able to sign top quality talent due to wage constraits.

He's done an incredible job here, one I think very few managers in the world could have replicated. Any club who got him would be extremely fortunate and if they fully backed him in the transfer market and gave him time to establish his philosophy, they would soon start winning trophies.

This is somewhat true. Apparently admitting as such is some sort of thorn in the side of the club you support.

If United sold some of their best players to Madrid and City, developed Rashford into the best striker in world football, bought a kid from MK Dons for pennies who turned into one of most productive midfielders in the country, played against top European sides with a degree of purpose and consistently finished in the top four then supporters on here would be all over it.

Spurs should be outside the top four. That Pochettino is criticised by some - in my opinion - quite bitter folk only serves to demonstrate the good job he's done there. He gets stick for not being something more. For not being an Alex Ferguson, essentially.

Yet again, Levy (an imbecile who is bizarrely adored) will contribute towards more points lost for Spurs, and Pochettino will more than likely keep them afloat through his team being greater than the sum of its parts. That he gets criticism (on the whole) is just staggering. Meanwhile, I'll go support Spurs... or something like that.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I'm not denying he's done a very good job, not just at Spurs but Southampton too, but you just can't put him in the top bracket when his biggest achievement is the same thing that people mock or criticise the likes of Wenger for.

The resources thing is an excuse. It might have some validity to it but it's still an excuse. He reportedly could have taken the Real Madrid job...or he could tell Levy he wants to win things and needs more resources to do it. He could just ome oout and say he wants to win the league or the CL. Make that the levell he measures success by. Being happy with 2nd, 3rd or 4th and not winning a trophy just leaves a question mark about whether he's actually capable or willing to do any better.

At the moment his idea of a succesful season is one that the likes of Mourinho, Guirdiola, Klopp etc. would consider an unuccesful one. It's all well and good saying "if he had better resources" or "if he was at a bigger club"...that's no different to Jose repeatedly pointing out that if United had spent the same money City have, he might have been able to finish above them.

He didn't take the Madrid job because he had just signed a new contract. He did tell Levy he wants to win things, he came out in the press and said we needed to 'be brave', that he needed signings early, etc etc. He didn't get that backing and potentially he will make the move you think he should next season because of that. It's very hard for any manager to win things when they aren't being backed by their chairman.

Mourinho and Guardiola's clubs have spent in the 600m+ range on players in the last five years or so. That is why they are winning things. Guardiola didn't win a single thing in his first season, he started winning when his massive spending bore fruit. Klopp has not won a single thing at Liverpool and has seemed very happy with the progress Liverpool has made, understanding that with the team he has available it is incredibly difficult to go ahead and just win trophies. Now he has spent big money he will be expected to win, that's the difference.

It is completely different to that. United and City have both spent colossal amounts of money, United aren't that far off in terms of spending. Complaining about an extra 50m or so is absolutely not the same as pointing out that when you spend hundreds and hundreds of millions less, it's very difficult to compete. Mourinho has a right to point it out if he feels he hasn't been backed enough, but it's nowhere near the same as somebody saying that it's hard to Pochettino to win stuff when he has a fraction of the resources available.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

This is somewhat true. Apparently admitting as such is some sort of thorn in the side of the club you support.

If United sold some of their best players to Madrid and City, developed Rashford into the best striker in world football, bought a kid from MK Dons for pennies who turned into one of most productive midfielders in the country, played against top European sides with a degree of purpose and consistently finished in the top four then supporters on here would be all over it.

Spurs should be outside the top four. That Pochettino is criticised by some - in my opinion - quite bitter folk only serves to demonstrate the good job he's done there. He gets stick for not being something more. For not being an Alex Ferguson, essentially.

Yet again, Levy (an imbecile who is bizarrely adored) will contribute towards more points lost for Spurs, and Pochettino will more than likely keep them afloat through his team being greater than the sum of its parts. That he gets criticism (on the whole) is just staggering. Meanwhile, I'll go support Spurs... or something like that.

We should. Absolutely we have no right whatsoever to be in there with our spending and wage structure. Where we were before Pochettino is around what we should be, a club hovering inside the top six and occasionally getting Europa League when a team has a poor season. Maybe the odd top four campaign, but certainly not consistently up there. Pochettino came in, and within 2 seasons had us in the top four, and has now kept us there for three straight years comfortably, once finishing runners up. Before he arrived we were sixth, behind Everton, yet people are surprised when people have massive praise for Pochettino? Makes no sense to me. It might do if he had spent significant money to get us where we are, but he hasn't. We're consistently a lower spender both on wages and transfers, not destitute but nowhere near enough to transform a team from 6th to second or third.

Look at the kind of money it took for United to go from sixth to second. Pochettino completed a similar transformation with a fraction of the spending, turning the likes of Rose, Kane, Walker, Dembele etc in to crucial players. He's mostly had to work with what he was given, and he's done it fantastically. He's not perfect and has signed a number of duds and can often be frustrating tactically, but I don't see how anybody could have anything but admiration for the work he has done under very testing circumstances. He's also brought in the likes of Alderweireld, Wanyama, Son, Trippier and Alli for extremely reasonable transfer fees and they have all massively improved the side, if they were to be sold it would be for fees far exceeding their purchasing price.

He's done a fantastic job. Yeah, it would be fantastic if we had won a trophy or two along the way, that's the main point of any sport after all, but you can't ignore the incredible work he has done just because of that shortcoming. Like I've said, other managers may be better at winning trophies, but there are very few out there that could have completed Pochettino's rebuild job.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

We should. Absolutely we have no right whatsoever to be in there with our spending and wage structure. Where we were before Pochettino is around what we should be, a club hovering inside the top six and occasionally getting Europa League when a team has a poor season. Maybe the odd top four campaign, but certainly not consistently up there. Pochettino came in, and within 2 seasons had us in the top four, and has now kept us there for three straight years comfortably, once finishing runners up. Before he arrived we were sixth, behind Everton, yet people are surprised when people have massive praise for Pochettino? Makes no sense to me. It might do if he had spent significant money to get us where we are, but he hasn't. We're consistently a lower spender both on wages and transfers, not destitute but nowhere near enough to transform a team from 6th to second or third.

Look at the kind of money it took for United to go from sixth to second. Pochettino completed a similar transformation with a fraction of the spending, turning the likes of Rose, Kane, Walker, Dembele etc in to crucial players. He's mostly had to work with what he was given, and he's done it fantastically. He's not perfect and has signed a number of duds and can often be frustrating tactically, but I don't see how anybody could have anything but admiration for the work he has done under very testing circumstances. He's also brought in the likes of Alderweireld, Wanyama, Son, Trippier and Alli for extremely reasonable transfer fees and they have all massively improved the side, if they were to be sold it would be for fees far exceeding their purchasing price.

He's done a fantastic job. Yeah, it would be fantastic if we had won a trophy or two along the way, that's the main point of any sport after all, but you can't ignore the incredible work he has done just because of that shortcoming. Like I've said, other managers may be better at winning trophies, but there are very few out there that could have completed Pochettino's rebuild job.

Spurs have no right to be in the top 4 - what a load of rubbish. Of course there is a correlation with spending and league finish, but it’s not the be all and end all. Spurs were hardly a mid table side when Poch took over. He’s done a great job, you shouldn’t need to be so defensive about it.

Spurs have the best striker in the league, that will take you a long way towards success. He’s had good money to spend and he’s done well. Will be in the mix for trophies this season.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Spurs have no right to be in the top 4 - what a load of rubbish. Of course there is a correlation with spending and league finish, but it’s not the be all and end all. Spurs were hardly a mid table side when Poch took over. He’s done a great job, you shouldn’t need to be so defensive about it.

Spurs have the best striker in the league, that will take you a long way towards success. He’s had good money to spend and he’s done well. Will be in the mix for trophies this season.

Uh, we don't? Not understanding what is defensive or rubbish about that statement. From our spending on both transfers and wages we should be in the top six, but clearly not inside the top four. There's a very, very clear correlation between spending and league finish aside from outliers. That doesn't mean we should never, ever be making the top four, but certainly for Pochettino to have us there is an achievement, because quite clearly it's overachieving based on the resources at his disposal. How is that remotely controversial? He took over us when we were sixth in the league.

Pochettino has done a great deal of work helping make Kane the best striker in the league, as he's said himself. His record with developing players is exceptional. Regardless, having a goalscorer in the team does not guarantee success and we have finished outside the top four whilst having him. Other sides have the likes of Hazard, Sanchez, Pogba, De Bruyne, Aguero, Salah .. etc. He's had good money to spend? We've spent pitiful amounts of money under Pochettino compared to the other teams competing for top four.

'Done well' is an underexaggeration. Other teams like Everton have spent more than we have, sides like United who finish in similar positions to us have spent vastly more and can afford to attract the likes of Pogba and Sanchez with the wages you can offer. Pochettino is doing an extraordinary job under exceptional circumstances and deserves plaudits for that. The way you describe it, you'd think we were par for the course ffs.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Uh, we don't? Not understanding what is defensive or rubbish about that statement. From our spending on both transfers and wages we should be in the top six, but clearly not inside the top four. There's a very, very clear correlation between spending and league finish aside from outliers. That doesn't mean we should never, ever be making the top four, but certainly for Pochettino to have us there is an achievement, because quite clearly it's overachieving based on the resources at his disposal. How is that remotely controversial? He took over us when we were sixth in the league.

Pochettino has done a great deal of work helping make Kane the best striker in the league, as he's said himself. His record with developing players is exceptional. Regardless, having a goalscorer in the team does not guarantee success and we have finished outside the top four whilst having him. Other sides have the likes of Hazard, Sanchez, Pogba, De Bruyne, Aguero, Salah .. etc. He's had good money to spend? We've spent pitiful amounts of money under Pochettino compared to the other teams competing for top four.

'Done well' is an underexaggeration. Other teams like Everton have spent more than we have, sides like United who finish in similar positions to us have spent vastly more and can afford to attract the likes of Pogba and Sanchez with the wages you can offer. Pochettino is doing an extraordinary job under exceptional circumstances and deserves plaudits for that. The way you describe it, you'd think we were par for the course ffs.

There’s no difference anymore between the top 4 and the top 6.

I’m really not sure what these exceptional circumstances are? Spurs spent £42m on a CB last season, and have spent decent money, no longer need to sell their best players, there is money there to spend and in terms of revenue Spurs are probably top 10 in the world.

Stop complaining, enjoy that Spurs are a good side, they are where they should be, I really don’t get why you are playing this overachiever/ underdog card. You said he took over when you were 6th, you would expect a new manager to move a side up the table - otherwise he’s going to be sacked. He’s done well, I don’t think it’s exceptional by any means, but he’s probably in the top 3-4 longest serving managers in the league and that says it’s own story.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

There’s no difference anymore between the top 4 and the top 6.

I’m really not sure what these exceptional circumstances are? Spurs spent £42m on a CB last season, and have spent decent money, no longer need to sell their best players, there is money there to spend and in terms of revenue Spurs are probably top 10 in the world.

Stop complaining, enjoy that Spurs are a good side, they are where they should be, I really don’t get why you are playing this overachiever/ underdog card. You said he took over when you were 6th, you would expect a new manager to move a side up the table - otherwise he’s going to be sacked. He’s done well, I don’t think it’s exceptional by any means, but he’s probably in the top 3-4 longest serving managers in the league and that says it’s own story.

We've finished 3rd, 2nd and 3rd three seasons in a row, whilst spending less than anybody else within the top six of the table, and also having a strict wage structure which means Pochettino can't bring in top class players. What exceptional circumstances aren't you seeing here, exactly? The fact Pochettino can't go out and sign a Pogba or a Sanchez in a million years? Or even an Alisson or a Keita. Wow, we spent 42 million on a CB for the future, you've got me there it's very clear we absolutely have been spending the same as other teams. He's our record transfer by the way, and that 'decent money' sees us below the likes of Stoke, WBA and Palace in terms of net spending. Our revenue is great but irrelevant because the board have a strict spending structure.

If you think we're 'exactly where we should be' then there's no point in further argument. You're objectively incorrect. By every measure we aren't where we should be and are overachieving, and you have provided absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise. That's your opinion and you're entitled it but you can't expect others to feel the same way when you have nothing to back it up other than the fact we paid a lot for a young CB once. He's moved us up from sixth to second/third whilst spending less than other managers, yet you're trying to act as if this is entirely normal and to be accepted. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Pochettino has absolutely overachieved with the resources at his disposal. I genuinely don't see how anybody could make a convincing counter-argument to that. You seem to have a problem with me (and other Spurs fans) praising the guy who brought us from abject mediocrity to genuinely competing. I'm not 'complaining', it's a discussion forum and you're making claims I disagree with. I think Pochettino has been exceptional for us, you don't feel the same way, fine, but don't talk nonsense about how we're exactly where we should be and then back it up with absolutely nothing. I am enjoying that Spurs are a good side, I want us to be even better and I think our manager could achieve that if our board gave him what he needs. How exactly am I not enjoying being a fan because I have a high opinion of our clubs manager?

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

We've finished 3rd, 2nd and 3rd three seasons in a row, whilst spending less than anybody else within the top six of the table, and also having a strict wage structure which means Pochettino can't bring in top class players. What exceptional circumstances aren't you seeing here, exactly? The fact Pochettino can't go out and sign a Pogba or a Sanchez in a million years? Or even an Alisson or a Keita. Wow, we spent 42 million on a CB for the future, you've got me there it's very clear we absolutely have been spending the same as other teams. He's our record transfer by the way, and that 'decent money' sees us below the likes of Stoke, WBA and Palace in terms of net spending. Our revenue is great but irrelevant because the board have a strict spending structure.

If you think we're 'exactly where we should be' then there's no point in further argument. You're objectively incorrect. By every measure we aren't where we should be and are overachieving, and you have provided absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise. That's your opinion and you're entitled it but you can't expect others to feel the same way when you have nothing to back it up other than the fact we paid a lot for a young CB once. He's moved us up from sixth to second/third whilst spending less than other managers, yet you're trying to act as if this is entirely normal and to be accepted. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Pochettino has absolutely overachieved with the resources at his disposal. I genuinely don't see how anybody could make a convincing counter-argument to that. You seem to have a problem with me (and other Spurs fans) praising the guy who brought us from abject mediocrity to genuinely competing. I'm not 'complaining', it's a discussion forum and you're making claims I disagree with. I think Pochettino has been exceptional for us, you don't feel the same way, fine, but don't talk nonsense about how we're exactly where we should be and then back it up with absolutely nothing. I am enjoying that Spurs are a good side, I want us to be even better and I think our manager could achieve that if our board gave him what he needs. How exactly am I not enjoying being a fan because I have a high opinion of our clubs manager?

To be honest, I think you need to chill out.

Perhaps our perspectives of what is good and what is exceptional are somewhat different. There have a number of good managers who have done what Poch has done at Spurs with other clubs - note, that most of the managers in the PL fail - therefore good, is you know... good. He’s taken a team and improved them.

Exceptional it is not - I’m really not trying to bash Spurs as lots of people do on this forum, but he’s not exceptional as he’s not actually won anything. He’s inheriated a team with lots of potential, Erikson, Lloris, Vertonghen, Kane, Walker Etc and he’s done well, he’s a good manager - and he’s helped get the best out of Erikson and Kane who are two of the best players in the league.

You are right, it’s my opinion that the Spurs manager is not exceptional.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

To be honest, I think you need to chill out.

Perhaps our perspectives of what is good and what is exceptional are somewhat different. There have a number of good managers who have done what Poch has done at Spurs with other clubs - note, that most of the managers in the PL fail - therefore good, is you know... good. He’s taken a team and improved them.

Exceptional it is not - I’m really not trying to bash Spurs as lots of people do on this forum, but he’s not exceptional as he’s not actually won anything. He’s inheriated a team with lots of potential, Erikson, Lloris, Vertonghen, Kane, Walker Etc and he’s done well, he’s a good manager - and he’s helped get the best out of Erikson and Kane who are two of the best players in the league.

You are right, it’s my opinion that the Spurs manager is not exceptional.

I'm perfectly chill, I just disagree with you. It doesn't really bother me what you think of Pochettino, I just find some of your claims odd.

Give me a list of managers who have had their team comfortably in the top four for a number of seasons in a row, whilst having the spending power, attraction and wage structure similar to say an Everton. He took a sixth placed team and whilst not spending much has had them play far better football, developed a number of young players, got them consistently significantly higher in the league, all whilst boasting an extremely low net spend coupled with a pretty restrictive wage structure. Good, indeed. Most managers get nowhere near this.

Lloris is a decent keeper, he's definitely not better than the likes of Courtois and De Gea. Eriksen was a very good attacking mid when Poch arrived but very inconsistent, Pochettino has changed this. Vertonghen looked to be on a downward slide after a fantastic first season .. again Pochettino took a terrible defence and made it one of the best in the league. Walker was one of the most frustrating players around and constantly making errors, just like Rose, but Pochettino turned them in to two of the best fullbacks in the league. He's also very much responsible for the way Kane has developed. Most of the players you have mentioned were considered inconsistent talents when he took over, and the perception has entirely changed under his management.

That's fair, I disagree. I think your standards are far too high (i.e good = far exceeding everybody's expectations) so that doesn't really worry me. If you had asked 10 Spurs fans before Pochettino's appointment if they thought he'd be able to get us playing the way we have, I imagine all of them would have said absolutely not. So to me, the fact he's done far better than fans of the club expected makes his achievements exceptional. He's not won anything and that is the only mark against him, but it doesn't take away from all the fantastic work he's done at the club.

Anyway, this argument has been had a thousand times on this forum, I'm sure. I don't want to go round in circles so I'll leave it there, we obviously just have a different criteria and that's fine. I think a manager can leave a lasting impact on a club and do some fantastic work without winning trophies, you obviously disagree. That's fair.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Yep, I’m out too. Cheers.

 

[Paul Martin]

Finally, it's not possible to sensibly say we've had a bad window, when the window is still open.

No, but you can say a club has had a good window, Liverpool, West Ham, etc. Spurs have certainly not had a good window with just one week left to go.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

No, but you can say a club has had a good window, Liverpool, West Ham, etc. Spurs have certainly not had a good window with just one week left to go.

Bad idea to reignite this mate

 

[balaks]

Personally I'm absolutely crapping myself that with about a week to go we have not signed a single player. I can't imagine Poch being too happy. Still time to turn it around of course but I am extremely concerned.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Personally I'm absolutely crapping myself that with about a week to go we have not signed a single player. I can't imagine Poch being too happy. Still time to turn it around of course but I am extremely concerned.

Especially considering we have a number of injury concerns (particularly in midfield) and a bunch of players who have not had a pre-season due to the world cup. Quite frankly it's an absolute mess, but don't try and point this out or criticize this summer's dealings or you will be told to 'get a grip'.

 

[RedSky]

Especially considering we have a number of injury concerns (particularly in midfield) and a bunch of players who have not had a pre-season due to the world cup. Quite frankly it's an absolute mess, but don't try and point this out or criticize this summer's dealings or you will be told to 'get a grip'.

Think it's fair criticism tbh. You've stood still this Summer and given that your club had the most players at the World Cup Semis thats going to have an impact on your start to the season. In an ideal world you'd have bought players not at the world cup and had them prepping themselves during pre season.

I guess this Season will be another write off to a degree in that you haven't done anything to narrow the gap between yourselves and City. You'll have the issue with stadium change as well and getting used to another new stadium. Might be a Season where you focus on a Top 4 and go heavy for the cups.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Personally I'm absolutely crapping myself that with about a week to go we have not signed a single player. I can't imagine Poch being too happy. Still time to turn it around of course but I am extremely concerned.

I completely agree with the sentiment shared by a few that Spurs are in danger of missing a beat if they continue to be frugal, and to an extent, it does reek of a lack of ambition. It's all well and good to finish top 4 consistently and that's a good achievement for the players, club and manager. However given that you've found yourself/worked your way into a position of strength, where you've got a seemingly excellent manager, the best striker in the league and a generally very strong (and cohesive) first team 14/15 players, I reckon you'll end up regretting not making some big moves and striking while the iron is hot. Momentum is a big part of football and all the little things going well together can fall apart or taper off fairly quickly if you don't take advantage of it fully.

My advise would be - look at Liverpool (as horrible as that sounds). Unlike Arsenal they've loosened the purse strings and are clearly trying to have a real go at the major trophies. They know they've got a good thing going with Klopp, Salah, Mane, Firmino etc. I mean the goal has to be to win things always. And if you're 80% you have to lean that extra bit IMO.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

The closer we get to the end of the window, the more and more likely it is that we'll enter panic mode when clubs realise what a desperate situation we've put ourselves in. I mean come on, imagine negotiating with us now, you know we badly need players with only a week (probably less by the time we actually try and sign anybody) left to go, you're hardly going to offer cheap. Selling clubs now hold all the cards because they're absolutely aware of the fact we are facing a crisis going in to the season if we aren't able to plug a couple of gaps.

This kind of strategy leads to signing Sissoko in the last minute. I mean, what do people think? That Villa, with a week to go and no replacement, are going to sell Grealish for cheaper than they would have at the start of the window? That Palace, having had time to think on it, have suddenly decided that Zaha is now worth half his asking price? There is absolutely no logic to that thinking. That is without accepting the very obvious fact that even if we sign players now, we probably won't see them for a little while and it'll take them a decent amount of time to acclimatise. Still leaving us with our barebones for the start of the season, when a bad start could make all the difference come the end of the season.

 

[Nick7]

Was chatting to a Spurs fan and he was saying the same. He's scared over the lack of investment. But I suppose it's the same as last year where ye didn't spend a penny until the last week, then spent €60m.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Think it's fair criticism tbh. You've stood still this Summer and given that your club had the most players at the World Cup Semis thats going to have an impact on your start to the season. In an ideal world you'd have bought players not at the world cup and had them prepping themselves during pre season.

I guess this Season will be another write off to a degree in that you haven't done anything to narrow the gap between yourselves and City. You'll have the issue with stadium change as well and getting used to another new stadium. Might be a Season where you focus on a Top 4 and go heavy for the cups.

The problem is even top four is going to look a big challenge this season, when really after a few seasons of making it we should be attempting to make the next step up. Reality is we're facing a tooth and nail battle to even make champions league football next season with City, Liverpool, United and Chelsea all likely to strongly compete for it, and Arsenal as a dark horse. Our lack of any movement whatsoever could have very damaging consequences come the end of the season.

At the start of the window I was very optimistic. Pochettino signed a new contract after publically asking for us to 'be brave' and to move decisively in the transfer market, so most Spurs fans assumed that the board had agreed to his requests and that we would see a statement of intent. I was never expecting a title challenge with the presence of City in the league, but comfortably making the top four and a genuine attempt at a trophy seemed a realistic aim.

 

[RedSky]

The problem is even top four is going to look a big challenge this season, when really after a few seasons of making it we should be attempting to make the next step up. Reality is we're facing a tooth and nail battle to even make champions league football next season with City, Liverpool, United and Chelsea all likely to strongly compete for it, and Arsenal as a dark horse. Our lack of any movement whatsoever could have very damaging consequences come the end of the season.

At the start of the window I was very optimistic. Pochettino signed a new contract after publically asking for us to 'be brave' and to move decisively in the transfer market, so most Spurs fans assumed that the board had agreed to his requests and that we would see a statement of intent. I was never expecting a title challenge with the presence of City in the league, but comfortably making the top four and a genuine attempt at a trophy seemed a realistic aim.

I honestly don't expect much from Arsenal or Chelsea.

Chelsea have got a new Manager and signed Jorginho. They've got Hazard and Courtois making noises about wanting to leave and they've not addressed their striker issue which was the real problem last year.
Arsenal are in the same boat as we were when Sir Alex left. Lots of players at Arsenal have only ever known Wengers way, it's a huge change for the club and although they have signed players, Torreira is imo the only one of real quality. Leno is an experienced goalkeeper but he was prone to errors at Leverkusen. Sokratis can't comment on as I haven't seen him play much.

Tottenham should get stronger and stronger as their inexperienced players get more experience and get better. The problem I see happening is that you'll start very slow and face the same issues as last season with the Champions League and not having the depth to cope when a few injuries hit and games start to wrack up. You'll have a result dip around November.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I honestly don't expect much from Arsenal or Chelsea.

Chelsea have got a new Manager and signed Jorginho. They've got Hazard and Courtois making noises about wanting to leave and they've not addressed their striker issue which was the real problem last year.
Arsenal are in the same boat as we were when Sir Alex left. Lots of players at Arsenal have only ever known Wengers way, it's a huge change for the club and although they have signed players, Torreira is imo the only one of real quality. Leno is an experienced goalkeeper but he was prone to errors at Leverkusen. Sokratis can't comment on as I haven't seen him play much.

Tottenham should get stronger and stronger as their inexperienced players get more experience and get better. The problem I see happening is that you'll start very slow and face the same issues as last season with the Champions League and not having the depth to cope when a few injuries hit and games start to wrack up. You'll have a result dip around November.

This is a risky outlook, IMO.

Sarri is a really good manager. He had Napoli playing fantastic football and putting up the first decent challenge to Juventus in a long while, and Jorginho was key to that. Having both Kante and Jorginho in midfield is impressive, if the latter can replicate his Serie A performances you're looking at easily one of the best midfields in the league. I expect Hazard and Courtois to stay and potentially a new manager can get the best out of Morata, but yes striker is a weak point for them. At Napoli though, Sarri had his forward players playing pretty fluidly, transformed Mertens in to a striker too, so I wouldn't be surprised if he attempted something similar with Chelsea. We know the Chelsea squad is capable, before last season they won the league comfortably then had their standard poor season following a title win. Despite being in 'crisis' for much of the last season they still won an FA Cup and finished 5th, so if they're revitalized I would be wary of dismissing their capabilities.

I mostly agree with you regarding Arsenal, but you never know, hence why I have them down as a dark horse. How quickly Emery can establish his philosophy isn't clear, but if a couple of their signings really click in to place and they can have the likes of Ozil and Aubameyang on song, they could put up a fight for top four. Other teams are also strengthing due to experience, but they're also adding key players to their squads and don't face an extremely difficult start to the season due to the issues layed out earlier. We could find ourselves chasing the pack, which is an extremely dangerous position to put yourself in.

Our depth is a massive issue, particularly in midfield where we have a number of players who are injury prone and Dembele is clearly on the wane. Losing him entirely will be huge, he was crucial to a number of our best performances last season and we have nobody in midfield capable of playing his role, so if we go in to the next season without trying to bring someone in who can cover for him .. we're in trouble. A lot of Spurs fans would tell you prior to last season that he's our best and most important player, so it's absolutely crucial we don't just ignore the fact he's no longer at the peak of his powers.

 

[balaks]

This is a risky outlook, IMO.

Sarri is a really good manager. He had Napoli playing fantastic football and putting up the first decent challenge to Juventus in a long while, and Jorginho was key to that. Having both Kante and Jorginho in midfield is impressive, if the latter can replicate his Serie A performances you're looking at easily one of the best midfields in the league. I expect Hazard and Courtois to stay and potentially a new manager can get the best out of Morata, but yes striker is a weak point for them. At Napoli though, Sarri had his forward players playing pretty fluidly, transformed Mertens in to a striker too, so I wouldn't be surprised if he attempted something similar with Chelsea. We know the Chelsea squad is capable, before last season they won the league comfortably then had their standard poor season following a title win. Despite being in 'crisis' for much of the last season they still won an FA Cup and finished 5th, so if they're revitalized I would be wary of dismissing their capabilities.

I mostly agree with you regarding Arsenal, but you never know, hence why I have them down as a dark horse. How quickly Emery can establish his philosophy isn't clear, but if a couple of their signings really click in to place and they can have the likes of Ozil and Aubameyang on song, they could put up a fight for top four. Other teams are also strengthing due to experience, but they're also adding key players to their squads and don't face an extremely difficult start to the season due to the issues layed out earlier. We could find ourselves chasing the pack, which is an extremely dangerous position to put yourself in.

Our depth is a massive issue, particularly in midfield where we have a number of players who are injury prone and Dembele is clearly on the wane. Losing him entirely will be huge, he was crucial to a number of our best performances last season and we have nobody in midfield capable of playing his role, so if we go in to the next season without trying to bring someone in who can cover for him .. we're in trouble. A lot of Spurs fans would tell you prior to last season that he's our best and most important player, so it's absolutely crucial we don't just ignore the fact he's no longer at the peak of his powers.

We 100% need a new central midfielder and for me it is probably our main priority for the window - I rate Dembele but his powers are on the wane and we can't rely on him even if he does stay. Winks is a talent but question marks now against his fitness - Wanyama also appears to have a dodgy Knee so that leaves us with Dier and ermm... potentially nobody.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

We 100% need a new central midfielder and for me it is probably our main priority for the window - I rate Dembele but his powers are on the wane and we can't rely on him even if he does stay. Winks is a talent but question marks now against his fitness - Wanyama also appears to have a dodgy Knee so that leaves us with Dier and ermm... potentially nobody.

Yeah, it's shocking. Just Grealish (I'm getting bored of seeing we're 'close' to signing him) wouldn't even be enough, we clearly need another midfielder in there who can step in when Dembele is injured or needing a rest. I guess we'll end up signing one and promoting from the youth ranks.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The closer we get to the end of the window, the more and more likely it is that we'll enter panic mode when clubs realise what a desperate situation we've put ourselves in. I mean come on, imagine negotiating with us now, you know we badly need players with only a week (probably less by the time we actually try and sign anybody) left to go, you're hardly going to offer cheap. Selling clubs now hold all the cards because they're absolutely aware of the fact we are facing a crisis going in to the season if we aren't able to plug a couple of gaps.

This kind of strategy leads to signing Sissoko in the last minute. I mean, what do people think? That Villa, with a week to go and no replacement, are going to sell Grealish for cheaper than they would have at the start of the window? That Palace, having had time to think on it, have suddenly decided that Zaha is now worth half his asking price? There is absolutely no logic to that thinking. That is without accepting the very obvious fact that even if we sign players now, we probably won't see them for a little while and it'll take them a decent amount of time to acclimatise. Still leaving us with our barebones for the start of the season, when a bad start could make all the difference come the end of the season.

And if you have, like, one target for the summer it really shouldn't be Grealish should it? I mean it shouldn't be one. You should look to bring in 3-4 names to genuinely strengthen the team. But if it's one it should be a special player who is hugely influencial.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

And if you have, like, one target for the summer it really shouldn't be Grealish should it? I mean it shouldn't be one. You should look to bring in 3-4 names to genuinely strengthen the team. But if it's one it should be a special player who is hugely influencial.

Yeah, it's a total mess. Grealish will come in and need time to develop, he's been playing in the championship and would very much be a project for Poch rather than a player who can come in and be a reliable replacement for Dembele. Would be a huge risk. I'm really not sure who else we would be in for, though. There's been a few media links to the likes of Kondogbia, but that's likely just tabloid nonsense rather than anything solid. We haven't really had any consistent links to anybody but Grealish this window, a few to Zaha and Martial but nothing to suggest it's likely we would get them.

We'll see how the end of the window goes, it would take something pretty miraculous to make it a good summer for us.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

This is a risky outlook, IMO.

Sarri is a really good manager. He had Napoli playing fantastic football and putting up the first decent challenge to Juventus in a long while, and Jorginho was key to that. Having both Kante and Jorginho in midfield is impressive, if the latter can replicate his Serie A performances you're looking at easily one of the best midfields in the league. I expect Hazard and Courtois to stay and potentially a new manager can get the best out of Morata, but yes striker is a weak point for them. At Napoli though, Sarri had his forward players playing pretty fluidly, transformed Mertens in to a striker too, so I wouldn't be surprised if he attempted something similar with Chelsea. We know the Chelsea squad is capable, before last season they won the league comfortably then had their standard poor season following a title win. Despite being in 'crisis' for much of the last season they still won an FA Cup and finished 5th, so if they're revitalized I would be wary of dismissing their capabilities.

I mostly agree with you regarding Arsenal, but you never know, hence why I have them down as a dark horse. How quickly Emery can establish his philosophy isn't clear, but if a couple of their signings really click in to place and they can have the likes of Ozil and Aubameyang on song, they could put up a fight for top four. Other teams are also strengthing due to experience, but they're also adding key players to their squads and don't face an extremely difficult start to the season due to the issues layed out earlier. We could find ourselves chasing the pack, which is an extremely dangerous position to put yourself in.

Our depth is a massive issue, particularly in midfield where we have a number of players who are injury prone and Dembele is clearly on the wane. Losing him entirely will be huge, he was crucial to a number of our best performances last season and we have nobody in midfield capable of playing his role, so if we go in to the next season without trying to bring someone in who can cover for him .. we're in trouble. A lot of Spurs fans would tell you prior to last season that he's our best and most important player, so it's absolutely crucial we don't just ignore the fact he's no longer at the peak of his powers.

So you think Sarri is a step up from Conte?

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

So you think Sarri is a step up from Conte?

A step up from the Conte of last season? Absolutely. He clearly wanted to leave, was constantly critical of the club he was managing, and it was pretty obvious he no longer had the dressing room. I don't think Sarri is a better manager but I expect Chelsea to do their usual routine of looking excellent in a new managers first season. I also think Hazard will thrive under Sarri, some of the one touch attacking football Napoli played was a joy to watch and he's a class above the likes of Mertens or Callejon.

 

[TheReligion]

Yeah, it's a total mess. Grealish will come in and need time to develop, he's been playing in the championship and would very much be a project for Poch rather than a player who can come in and be a reliable replacement for Dembele. Would be a huge risk. I'm really not sure who else we would be in for, though. There's been a few media links to the likes of Kondogbia, but that's likely just tabloid nonsense rather than anything solid. We haven't really had any consistent links to anybody but Grealish this window, a few to Zaha and Martial but nothing to suggest it's likely we would get them.

We'll see how the end of the window goes, it would take something pretty miraculous to make it a good summer for us.

What happened to the deal for Barrios?

I liked him in the world cup but it seemed he was spurs bound?

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

What happened to the deal for Barrios?

I liked him in the world cup but it seemed he was spurs bound?

No idea. Don't really want him based on his world cup performances, just looked like a Colombian Lee Cattermole. Admittedly was only a few games though. We've been linked to quite a few central midfielders this window but nothing really consistently aside from Grealish .. think we may have enquired for a few (like Kondogbia) but just been priced out.

 

[breakout67]

I actually have a more positive outlook than some for Spurs. Spurs missing a lot of key players and not having depth is not that big a problem due to them not having to challenge. They have consistently started the season slow and built up to title winning form when they are out of 2-3 cups so their fixture schedule is more kind.

They are also back to White Hart Lane, and I expect them to get top 4 again. They have a very good starting 11 but not the depth which is typical for a top 4 team.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I actually have a more positive outlook than some for Spurs. Spurs missing a lot of key players and not having depth is not that big a problem due to them not having to challenge. They have consistently started the season slow and built up to title winning form when they are out of 2-3 cups so their fixture schedule is more kind.

They are also back to White Hart Lane, and I expect them to get top 4 again. They have a very good starting 11 but not the depth which is typical for a top 4 team.

We still try to compete in both Europe and the league, and these days you have to be extremely consistent just to reach the top four. Starting the season slow hasn't been an issue before, but I think this year is a little different because the league looks more competitive than ever. We're not back to WHL but are instead facing adapting to another new stadium. Top 4 is certainly possible (I've said some negative things, but we do have a good team with some very good players) but it's far from a given, and our lack of movement worries me because it seems as if we're taking our current position for granted.

Our starting 11 isn't as strong as it may seem, if Dembele continues to decline we've lost by far our most talented central midfielder, and if Alderweireld leaves or continues being at odds with the club we're basically missing the presence of our best defender. Those are two crucial players who have been at the spine of the team the last few seasons, we did without them at times last season but they were definitely missed, and we could be losing Dembele to an even great extent going in to the next campaign.

We badly need to freshen up the squad with 2-3 players who can challenge for those positions, but we haven't done so. If we do in the last week of the window they are still going to be unavailable for the start of the campaign, which is a worry. Our central midfield situation is absolutely shocking right now and badly needs improving, especially when you consider what the likes of Chelsea, United, City and even Liverpool (with fabinho and keita) can now offer. Even Arsenal went out and brought in Torreira.

It's not the end of the world, but it is very worrying.

 

[James Peril]

Yeah, it's a total mess. Grealish will come in and need time to develop, he's been playing in the championship and would very much be a project for Poch rather than a player who can come in and be a reliable replacement for Dembele. Would be a huge risk. I'm really not sure who else we would be in for, though. There's been a few media links to the likes of Kondogbia, but that's likely just tabloid nonsense rather than anything solid. We haven't really had any consistent links to anybody but Grealish this window, a few to Zaha and Martial but nothing to suggest it's likely we would get them.

We'll see how the end of the window goes, it would take something pretty miraculous to make it a good summer for us.

Hold up, there’s no guarantee he will sign for Spurs is there. You messed up big-time when you had the chance to sign him on the cheap, now they have new owners and find themselves in a better position. Levy got greedy and it backfired, you can’t always have it both ways. Furthermore, he is not the player to replace Dembele, they are nothing alike and Grealish isn’t anywhere near good enough for Tottemham yet. By all means I hope he’s your only signing at a big expense, which would automatically rule Tottenham out of any trophy race this season.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Hold up, there’s no guarantee he will sign for Spurs is there. You messed up big-time when you had the chance to sign him on the cheap, now they have new owners and find themselves in a better position. Levy got greedy and it backfired, you can’t always have it both ways. Furthermore, he is not the player to replace Dembele, they are nothing alike and Grealish isn’t anywhere near good enough for Tottemham yet. By all means I hope he’s your only signing at a big expense, which would automatically rule Tottenham out of any trophy race this season.

I was more talking in a hypothetical sense, I'm perfectly aware we aren't guaranteed to get him, with the way we're doing business for him we're probably plotting to stretch it out to January. I agree with pretty much everything else you've said, he's not good enough to replace Dembele and we would need to bring somebody else alongside him. If he's our only signing this summer it would be an utter disgrace.