To be fair, extending the contracts of all your key players is quite an achievement even if you don't sign anyone new.
Spurs 2018/19
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Literally all of your positives are finance based. Investment in to stadium, facilities, expensive squad, not getting in to debt, boosted income. Are you a fan of a football team or a business? (Aside from being an established top 4 side ... which is purely because of Pochettino).
It's not 'doom and gloom', it's frustration based on the fact that our world class manager, responsible for our ON THE PITCH success, is being ignored. I can applaud the off the pitch improvements by the board whilst also criticising them for not backing our manager in attempting to build a team which can actually compete for trophies. This is my priority, as a football fan. The new facilities are all lovely, but quite honestly I'm not going to be cheering the new facilities on every week... 'We've got the best toilets in the leagueeeeee' !!!
The transfer window is a mess, sorry. We've waited till the absolute last minute after our manager came out in the press and told everyone (like..3-4 times) that we shouldn't be doing that. Now we're going to be facing the challenge of getting the likes of Zaha away from their clubs when they don't have any replacements, so they will demand extortionate fees. They know we'll be desperate because with zero signings we're absolutely fecked, so they are still going to demand crazy fees, so.. what was the point in waiting this long exactly? Even if we sign players it makes no sense to be doing it this late, unless they were involved in the world cup. Even then Liverpool managed to secure Alisson pretty sharpish, and United got Fred.
I'm delighted we haven't lost players, now let's add to them maybe so we actually stand a chance of winning something, so they'll want to stay for the forseeable future.
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I believe it was Pochettino himself who said be brave and take risks. You've interpreted this as "spend lots of money on new players", but see my post #244.
He literally said we needed to strengthen by signing players this window, and stressed it needed to be done early. If you think 'take risks' means blindly promote youth players and place unfair expectations on them, then fair play you're really a glass half full kind of guy.
(It obviously didn't mean that)
It's very good. If we don't make top four this season though (Likely, with the improvement of several teams and our lack of movement despite not finishing that far ahead of an in-crisis Chelsea last season) it won't mean much other than we'll get bigger fees for them. The likes of Eriksen won't hang around if we're not playing CL football.
Given the fact that Spurs require new blood to not only improve the overall ability of the squad in general but also to keep current personnel suitably challenged and on their toes, I think it's a fairly safe assumption to interpret the meaning behind Poch's statement thusly; I need new players and I need them yesterday.
You would be only fooling yourself to interpret the meaning any other way.
It's the exact opposite for us. We voted against it and our manager is in support of it!
It was his dream job and he acted like an idiot, but we made top four and he should have been given a chance to make up for it. Failing that, probably don't hire a manager already proven as a charlatan to replace him (John Terry in a high line? How did the club not realize this guy was not the second coming of Mourinho).
I do appreciate what he's done for the club, financially he was a god send and he's clearly very good at keeping a tight ship and making us profitable. He's probably the best chairman in the league for it but that doesn't mean that the fans can't be frustrated when it seems like he's happy for us to rest on our laurels, when we have a fantastic opportunity to build on an excellent squad and manager and win trophies. How can you criticize 'typical football fan thinking' ? We're fans of sport, we're not businessmen, of course we look at what is happening on the pitch and of course that is our priority.
Nobody wants us to go around blowing hundreds of millions every window, but I do want our managers requests honoured after he signed a new contract on that basis, and I do want us to try and compete for a trophy. Otherwise all of this progress is for nothing, because the point of all of it is surely to turn Spurs in to a football team that can win trophies?
My positives included becoming an established top 4 team, having created one of the most valuable (which means talented) squads in the Prem, and having kept our best players all together … these things directly relate to on-the-pitch football.
The stadium relates to having more income, which means more money to spend, a subject you are busy screaming about because, you say, we haven't spent enough in backing the manager … so perhaps money is somewhat important after all, even in your eyes.
As for transfers this summer, you're all doom re. Spurs. But what have our rivals, Liverpool aside, actually done so far? Not much is the answer.
United have an unhappy camp, with some players wanting out, and they've signed Fred (who?), some unknown fullback and a 3rd-string GK. Meanwhile Dourinho is busy throwing his younger players under the bus and complaining that the club is not backing him with money.
Chelsea are at risk of losing anywhere between 1 and 3 of their best players, have recently sacked their manager of last season and have the EL burden to face.
City? Well, it doesn't really matter, unless you've been expecting us to close a 23 point gap from last season.
Arsenal - some 'meh' signings and also the Europea league to contend with.
As is always the case with Levy; irrespective of new signings he's already screwed up the start of the new campaign. Time will tell how much he's screwed it up... Whether to the degree of not allowing new signings any time to integrate with the new squad or have a successful pre-season... Or whether to the degree of not actually signing the 3-4 players required required full stop.
As per your rhetoric a few months ago... Are you still as sure as you were then that you'll spend £100m net this Summer? Or do you now accept that fundamentally that money isn't available?
@balaks How do you feel about the Summer so far given your comment?
I re-addressed the fact you said top four ... this is all Pochettino's work. He's the one who developed these players, he's the one who turned the team around, not the board. Before him we were well off from being an 'established top four' side and were getting hammered by Liverpool at home. The players want to stay because they want to play under him, and have continually stressed that they believe in Pochettino, not Daniel Levy. The board made an excellent decision by hiring him (after a string of useless managerial appointments) so let's do our absolute best to keep the biggest asset at the club by not ignoring his requests? Because before him we were playing the likes of Soldado, Capoue, Paulinho, Naughton etc, all completed with Dawson in a high line. After mostly completely wasting the Bale money.
Having more income doesn't necessarily equate to more spending, look at Arsenal. Their new stadium was meant to make them 'compete financially' with the top teams, yet shock horror it didn't. Expecting it to be different with our board is sheer naivety, they are mostly money men who will be interested in keeping our net spend low, as long as we're making top four they are happy, they don't care about us winning trophies. If it doesn't increase our profits they aren't interested, but what they don't seem to realise is that we are teetering on the edge of exiting the top four and losing the man who makes us compete.
Liverpool massively improved, Arsenal significantly strengthed, United have struggled but even they brought in Fred and Dalot, and Chelsea brought in one of Serie A's best midfielders in Jorginho. None have massively strengthed, but they've all still done more than we have, having signed zero players thus far. Chelsea have been in chaos with their managerial situation and still managed to sign a fantastic player. Mourinho is reportedly furious with his board yet they still have done more than we have. My focus is on Spurs, not what other clubs have done. Also Fred (who?) is a bit silly considering he's rated very highly, made the Brazil squad ahead of the likes of Fabinho, and players like Willian and Fernandinho who came from Shakhtar previously have been a massive success.
Doesn't look like they will lose those players really though, does it? Sarri will probably ignore the Europa League as he did with Napoli, and that Chelsea team were title winners the season before last, and often follow a poor season with a title challenge. Underestimating them would be pure folly, especially since their new manager is one who had Napoli playing brilliantly.
No-one has said "blindly promote youth players and place unfair expectations on them". What Pochettino has said is this:
"We work in a different way. … For me, it's better to play with younger players who come through the academy so you can improve them and after that their motivation is always higher. We need quality, and players with the facility to fight with our number one and to try to help them push their level. That is the key."
So, we haven't signed players early. IMO it's not the huge deal you're making it out to be.
Has he? I thought the season had yet to kick off, but I bow to your superior knowledge.
The short answers to your two questions are "yes" and "no".
Absolutely - unless you have a flawless start to the season you'll know that you could have done better if key signings were made with enough time to have a successful pre-season integrating with the squad. This is from a United fan who thinks the signings of Sanchez, Dalot and Fred since the start of last season don't quite give us enough.
I guess we'll wait 10 days!
It’s worrying for Poch and Spurs fans if no new players come in. Levy should stop being so stubborn over Alderweireld’s asking price, take the money and invest in the team.
This is the problem. We shouldn't need to sell Alderweireld to be able to invest in the team, that isn't what we were promised. It's understandable if we do sell him because he's demanding wages which go against our structure, but our spending shouldn't depend on whether or not he goes this window.
I am sure they talk. Doesn't mean they are on the same page.
Bad start to a bad post. This is a disingenuous claim really. The market is basically the same as it was last year where Gylfi went for 50m.
I am not making anything up. I am citing quotes and making what I think are entirely reasonable assumptions based on them.
Your main counter argument is that Pochettino would in all cases go to the press and say "I am unhappy with X" before it could be true that he was unhappy. "because southampton" apparently.
I would argue that would be altogether unprofessional from him. He is doing the appropriate thing, which is stating his expectations and using subtle pressure in the media, such as today when he says there may be no transfers. Presumably because telling Levy to his face isn't working.
Any man and his dog should know that signing Jack Grealish on deadline day isn't what he had in mind when he said “If we want to be real contenders for big trophies, we need to review...."
Which brings us to the no 1 boardroom apologist:
You can not be serious. The context for his comments is:
“If we want to be real contenders for big trophies" ... you need to be brave. Being brave is the most important thing and take risks. I think it’s a moment that the club needs to take risks and tries to work, if possible, harder than the previous season to be competitive again, because every season will be more difficult."
Inferring that 'playing youngsters is a big risk' is just wilfully twisting the context here - He is talking about the need for the boardroom to work harder, take more risk and be brave in the context of winning titles and the difficulty of staying competitive.
He is even saying he is unsure if Levy will agree with what he wants - Because he obviously doesn't.
The inference is obvious to anyone who isn't an apologist for Levy - Pochettino wants bigger outlays to win titles and believes staying competitive without it will be increasingly difficult.
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I simply don't get this unerring urge to present the current state of affairs as if it were the best of possible worlds. You have a manager who has performed well above expectations given his budget for years who comes out flatly and says the board needs to be braver and take more risk for you to stay competitive. And a chairman who sees how his manager is doing well and believes he can get away with spending even less than otherwise to sustain a top 4 challenge.
But most of all, why would anyone be sympathetic to a fecking suit? Your man on the ground is telling the board they need to do better. They are doing the exact opposite so far and yet here are fans sticking up for the suit over the manager, jumping through mental hoops to convince themselves that Poch and Levy are holding hands and hugging it out every day about the transfer strategy.
@B20 Bravo
Early signings apart, you don't know what his requests have been, but seemingly like to think that these all coincide with what you personally think is needed. Ever thought that maybe they don't? Ever thought that maybe first of all he asked for money to be made available to secure our existing players on new contracts?
By all accounts Levy and Pochettino have an excellent relationship, which is probably partly why the latter signed a new contract. He talks with him frequently.
Do you imagine that after all this time Pochettino doesn't know Levy very well? Do you imagine he'd have stayed if he knew Levy to be just one of the "money men who … don't care about us winning trophies"?
And then we come onto your wild hysteria about us "... teetering on the edge of exiting the top four and losing the man who makes us compete".
Say what? The season hasn't yet started and Pochettino has just turned down Real Madrid to sign a new contract with Spurs!
Get a grip.
Think the reality for Spurs is that they have to sell before buying. Pochettino has said they might not sign anyone. But he sounds a bit miffed he wasn't consulted on the decision to back shutting the window earlier.
For a club notorious for leaving business late, it was a monumentally stupid decision.
For a club notorious for leaving business late, it was a monumentally stupid decision.
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Redknapp deserved to go. He got us 4th in his last season true (though because of Chelsea, we ended up in the Europa league the following season). However, we ended up in 4th when we should have had 3rd completely wrapped up because he completely let his focus slip off Spurs. He clearly thought he was the new England manager and started talking as if he was the England manager when he was still the Spurs manager (for example, saying he wanted Chelsea to win the CL because of the English lads. This is what an England manager would say. Not the manager of a rival London club, who may (and did!) end up being very negatively affected by that victory). Not to mention his court case because he was a dodgy motherfecker.
I appreciate everything he did for the club and contributed his bit to where we are now but it was ultimately the right decision to let him go. You can't hitch your skirt and then expect everything to stay the same when you didn't get what you thought you would.
I admire Pochettino'' attitude. Was promised serious investment when he signed the contract. Not much complaining when it doesn't happen and just gets on with it. No one would blame him if he was pissed.
No point in any of this. You will twist absolutely anything in to praise for Levy, and do anything to portray our situation this transfer window as rosy. We'll see at the end of next season whether this is hysteria, or maybe justified concerns at the lack of progress we've made in improving our playing staff.
It's like arguing with a conspiracy theorist. Every uncertain element gets interpreted according to the best of possible worlds (world according to Daniel Levy). Normal people recognise that such patterns of inference are fundamentally illusory. For the conspiracy theorist it is the total opposite - The vast number of inferences all slanted in one direction end up confirming each other. In glaston's world, spurs have been on a never-ending road to progress in the best of possible ways this can be done for decades - Some airbrushing of past events may take place to not look unhinged. But it is sad mostly because everyone knows what Glaston will write before he starts typing.
If it was inevitable, the board should still have handled his replacement better. AVB was a disaster of an appointment from the start, he was already proven a complete fraud in English football. Anybody could look at some of the decisions he made at Chelsea and seen that he was an insanely stubborn individual who was completely unsuited to inheriting Redknapp's side. Dawson in a high line? The man was a complete idiot. We went from playing excellent football under Redknapp to some of the dullest stuff I've ever seen as a football fan.
The board have made tons of incorrect decisions when it comes to the footballing side of things. I can appreciate what they've done for the club off the field, but my view is that they struck lucky with Pochettino who has made us compete on the pitch. They deserve credit for hiring him but it's time now to back our greatest asset, not ignore his demands.
From what the boardroom fans say, Levy doesn't fart without checking that Poch isn't downwind first, so not sure how this could have happened.
I'm asking a serious question here. And I ask this as someone who thinks Levy has overall done an amazing job at Spurs.
Do you think Levy has made any mistakes at Spurs? Do you think there is anything else he could be doing? And if so, what?
Signing no one doesn't suddenly make the players or manager you have worse, so it's confusing how people always seem to reach that conclusion.
The problem in Tottenham's case is that you can't be a nearly team, do nothing at all to improve, and then realistically expect to do any better the following year. It's not a young up and coming team any more. It's a good team with flaws. Either the flaws need to be addressed or something needs to be added so they have that little bit extra to make the difference when required.
If you're not top of the mountain or within sight of it, you don't get there without climbing.
I know people love Pochettino on here but he does at some point need to prove he can manage a winning team, and not just do a good job at being one of the also rans.
The problem in Tottenham's case is that you can't be a nearly team, do nothing at all to improve, and then realistically expect to do any better the following year. It's not a young up and coming team any more. It's a good team with flaws. Either the flaws need to be addressed or something needs to be added so they have that little bit extra to make the difference when required.
If you're not top of the mountain or within sight of it, you don't get there without climbing.
I know people love Pochettino on here but he does at some point need to prove he can manage a winning team, and not just do a good job at being one of the also rans.
The quote you give from Pochettino (and then claim that Levy "obviously doesn't" agree with the sentiments expressed) precedes Pochettino signing a new contract. This tells me - and ought to tell anyone sensible - that Pochettino and Levy are on the same page and that your wishful-thinking interpretation is wide of the mark.
Nor is it obvious, despite your claim otherwise, that Pochettino's comments were a call for lots of money to be spent on new players, especially since, as I've already said, it's much more likely that his first concern was for our existing better players to be kept at the club via new contracts: you know the old saying … a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
And breaking our old wages structure is a risk, as is continuing with a policy of bringing younger Spurs players into the squad … the latter being something that Pochettino has said he really likes to do.
But in any case, as I keep saying, you speak as if the window is closed for transfers. It isn't. So even if you want to believe your interpretation of what constitutes the risk-taking that Pochettino cites, your conclusions are premature.
So if Spurs sign Zaha and Grealish are the Spurs faithful happy with the window? Solves the home grown problems Poch had that was tlked about earlier in this thread, brings in a young player for the outgoing Dembele and Zaha certainly has that x factor.
I personally think Spurs need a CB, a big risk relying on the young kid Foyth given he has never played a PL game. I quite like Spurs' first choice CB's Vertonghen and Sanchez, thought for his first year Sanchez looked the goods and is only going to improve. And Vertonghen was one of my CB's of the season. It's just if either gets injured you have a utility player in Dier who can play in a pinch at CB and ???? Foyth? Maybe a cheeky bid for Lascelles, Maguire, insert other home gown young CB here?
I personally think Spurs need a CB, a big risk relying on the young kid Foyth given he has never played a PL game. I quite like Spurs' first choice CB's Vertonghen and Sanchez, thought for his first year Sanchez looked the goods and is only going to improve. And Vertonghen was one of my CB's of the season. It's just if either gets injured you have a utility player in Dier who can play in a pinch at CB and ???? Foyth? Maybe a cheeky bid for Lascelles, Maguire, insert other home gown young CB here?
He snubbed Real in order to sign a new contract? Wow. Amazing news for Spurs.
I was under the mistaken impression Pochettino had already signed his new contract when Zidane surprisingly stepped down.
For some reason I also thought he'd initially played coy with the press when he was linked to the Madrid job before publicly committing to Spurs with a comment that began “It would be disrespectful to Daniel for me to force a move. I’ve just renewed with Tottenham...*."
But it turns out I was completely wrong and actually Mauricio snubbed Madrid in order to sign up long term with Spurs!
(* - abbreviated for failed comedic effect. the rest of the statement makes clear he's perfectly happy staying at spurs)
Yes, he's clearly made mistakes with some previous managerial appointments (I'd exclude Redknapp and obviously Pochettino). But then at the time Spurs were not as an attractive a club as they are now, so his choices, albeit not always good ones, were more limited.
I honestly don't think Levy could now be doing anything more than he is … or not without saddling the club with crippling debts.
Transfers are complicated - especially this window with the World Cup and all. And too many fans are too ready to believe every bit of media guff they read.
Take Grealish for example, and the notion that we could have signed him early in the window if only Levy had stumped up £40m. This assumes that Grealish's importance to Spurs is worth £40m - but what if Pochettino told Levy he wasn't that important and only worth a punt at £20m? Moreover, what if Pochettino told Levy that he had a younger player or two in mind - Luke Amos or Oliver Skipp say - that he'd rather promote to the senior squad than see £40m spent on Grealish in the knowledge that this would reduce his budget for other potential new players? And what about Villa's transfer embargo (the news of which later became public), what effect did this had?
The point here being that there are lots of factors behind the scenes that we don't know about in any potential transfer. But all we hear is the simplistic clamour for "new signings" from folk who mostly don't know about - and don't want to hear about - the complexities involved.
I've cited the not-far-short of £1 billion that Spurs have invested/are investing in the new stadium complex and new training centre. One fecking billion pounds! What other Prem club could have diverted such sums away from player investment and still become an established top 4 club?
I don't care what anyone says: it's a very remarkable achievement and it's occurred with Levy at the helm. He's the longest standing club chair in the Prem and he deserves a lot of credit.
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Of course but when the other teams have improved, it does count as going backwards as a team.
That is fair, AVB in hindsight was a poor appointment. Did a great job at Porto but wasn't suited to the club and came in asking for Moutinho, Hulk etc knowing full well we couldn't afford those players. Was quite silly all in all.
That's pretty rich of you say given how you were smugly thought Sancho has signed for Spurs and Martial had visited the Spurs stadium due to some forum ITK.
All this has been done to death already. A contract with a manager doesn't stop them leaving if they want to, because no club can go forward with a manager who wants out. Ergo Pochettino preferred to stay.
But yet when it suited you it was obvious that Pochettino would’ve discussed more funds with Levy. You were quite bullish about how much Spurs would have to spend with your new stadium opening and were certain that Pochettino signing his contract was evidence of that. When it suited.
My post cited media click-bait, not ITK claims.
In any case, not all ITK can be 100% right all of the time because things can change quickly in the complex world of transfers .. and it also depends on which "ITK" is involved. Sancho was the exception, not the rule.
As for Martial, he has visited our training centre (not the stadium). Believe it or not … I care not.
Oh I see the fantastic 'oh fans who want transfers are so gullible and easily fooled by media reports' argument has returned. Apparently because you want your team to sign players, you therefore automatically believe every 'The Sun' article which emerges. Fantastic logic.
Might make the *slightest* bit of sense if people were in here demanding we bring in Bale, but nobody is so it's not relevant. Linking frustrations with a lack of ANY movement to being some naive idiot who hangs on every word the tabloid press print is completely unfair. Yes, the transfer window is complex, and yes we are limited as a club and can't sign top tier players. That doesn't mean we have to act like signing a player is rocket science and an impossibility (when nearly every other club manages it) or that we have the pull of Watford.
@GlastonSpur you're constantly bigging this club up and acting like every player under the sun wants to play for Pochettino, our new stadium will attract new sponsors etc, so why is it so hard for us to sign a single player in this window, when other clubs have managed it? Either Levy really has transformed us in to a club who can compete with the biggest clubs, or he hasn't and we're still very limited and unable to compete in the transfer market. Which is it? You can't on one hand say that Martial would love to come, then cry about how fans expect too much from Levy.
Make your fecking mind up. Because all it looks like to me is that you'll twist absolutely any argument to suit your idea that Levy is our ominpotent lord and can do no wrong.
Might make the *slightest* bit of sense if people were in here demanding we bring in Bale, but nobody is so it's not relevant. Linking frustrations with a lack of ANY movement to being some naive idiot who hangs on every word the tabloid press print is completely unfair. Yes, the transfer window is complex, and yes we are limited as a club and can't sign top tier players. That doesn't mean we have to act like signing a player is rocket science and an impossibility (when nearly every other club manages it) or that we have the pull of Watford.
@GlastonSpur you're constantly bigging this club up and acting like every player under the sun wants to play for Pochettino, our new stadium will attract new sponsors etc, so why is it so hard for us to sign a single player in this window, when other clubs have managed it? Either Levy really has transformed us in to a club who can compete with the biggest clubs, or he hasn't and we're still very limited and unable to compete in the transfer market. Which is it? You can't on one hand say that Martial would love to come, then cry about how fans expect too much from Levy.
Make your fecking mind up. Because all it looks like to me is that you'll twist absolutely any argument to suit your idea that Levy is our ominpotent lord and can do no wrong.
and you had the cheek to imply other Spurs fans are gullible
