When we were top of the league this time last season he said we weren't in the title race and that trophies are just to massage the ego. Its no surprise we tanked soon after.
Solskjaer's legacy and his future
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He was shit scared of having the bar of expectations raised. Most reasonable people already weren't going to raise the bar midseason or crucify him for not winning it but he was such a weak willed manager he just had to come out and let everyone know. Even if we all knew as much nothing good was going to come from the manager rushing to declare it.
Sometimes I feel sorry for what he must have gone through seeing the fans boo him the way they did after watford then I remember things like these and how criminally unsuited he was to have gotten anywhere close to 3 years at the job.
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Same here. Never rated him as one the "legends" even though I did watch him growing up, not on the same level as Keane Scholes etc. At least not for me. Scored a legendary goal yes but I mostly remember him as squad player or a sub, not one the main cogs of the team.
Those effort figures this season compared with Rangnicks Leipzig side 3 years ago, juxtaposed with him saying we’re going to be the hardest working team in the league during the first summer he was here, isn’t a good look for him 
Talked the talk but couldn’t even take the first few steps of the walk. We played some really bland, dated football that most fans would murder Jose Mourinho for if he was in charge, but since it’s lovely, smiley face Solskjaer a blind eye is turned.
Solskjaer as a player for me is a solid dependable player who played the supporting role a lot of the time and was never the lead role. He just happened to toepoke a pretty significant goal against Bayern Munich once but it wasnt some worldie solo run. Is Juliano Belletti seen as this massive significant Barcelona legend because he scored the winning goal to win their clubs 2nd European Cup?
Solskjaer is a legend for length of tenure for me, rather than legend for being an awesome player (which most people including me deem legend to be). He wouldn’t be in the first 10 names if I was to reel off United legends for whatever reason.
He was happy to be supporting role. I don’t think a characteristic like that meshs well with being a manager though… to just settle for the bare minimum and not want to rock the boat, which we have seen in his managerial tenure here.
Talked the talk but couldn’t even take the first few steps of the walk. We played some really bland, dated football that most fans would murder Jose Mourinho for if he was in charge, but since it’s lovely, smiley face Solskjaer a blind eye is turned.
Solskjaer as a player for me is a solid dependable player who played the supporting role a lot of the time and was never the lead role. He just happened to toepoke a pretty significant goal against Bayern Munich once but it wasnt some worldie solo run. Is Juliano Belletti seen as this massive significant Barcelona legend because he scored the winning goal to win their clubs 2nd European Cup?
Solskjaer is a legend for length of tenure for me, rather than legend for being an awesome player (which most people including me deem legend to be). He wouldn’t be in the first 10 names if I was to reel off United legends for whatever reason.
He was happy to be supporting role. I don’t think a characteristic like that meshs well with being a manager though… to just settle for the bare minimum and not want to rock the boat, which we have seen in his managerial tenure here.
He was a good player who scored one of our most famous goals and come across as a nice person. As a manager, the less said the better. One of his first goals that he said was to get the team running more and fitter, and that stat from the other day shows how miserably he failed at even that. I wanted him to succeed badly because it would have been an incredible story but he did ultimately what you should never do as United manager IMO- he turned into a coward at the end of his reign and so often in big games last year too.
Also side note, can Carrick shut up about Ole in his press conferences? “The lows of Ole leaving” today is what he said; like the man is gone, he lost his job because he was bad at it- happens to people all the time- stop mourning over it like someone has died or some great injustice was done. Do your job and shut up about the previous manager.
Also side note, can Carrick shut up about Ole in his press conferences? “The lows of Ole leaving” today is what he said; like the man is gone, he lost his job because he was bad at it- happens to people all the time- stop mourning over it like someone has died or some great injustice was done. Do your job and shut up about the previous manager.
This loser mentality of him really grind my gears. Anyone who said that is a big loser in my eyes. Every top manager has the obsession to win every single thing in front of them including mickey mouse cup. Furthermore this is coming from someone who played under a serial winner. Ben Foster told a story that Fergie went ballistic on him because he fecked up and lost a PRE SEASON game. For me, as a manager he is as bad as Moyes. The less said about his unneccesary smiling the better.
A tribute for what? He's not dead ffs..
For the sake of his career he should be be looking to distance himself to make everyone forget he was a part of the machinery that led that mediocrity but he'd rather act like a kid that lost a parent. He definitely didn't deserve to stay longer than Ole and I personally now hope they're all gone latest 2023. They'd probably all be gone if some genius didn't bury his head in sand to renew all their contracts during our freefall. Must have thought they were smarter than everyone and the only ones to see the big picture.
There are too many of them from that failed regime who are still here. It's a regime with no tactical acumen or redeeming coaching quality worth retaining. I actually liked the idea of them staying to hep bed in the new staff but that game against Chelsea was a huge reminder they did nothing to help Ole's weakness when he was here. They were just friendly faces.
Give Rangnick the guided tour and get the hell out. I'm sure he can figure out the rest by himself. No more unqualified appointments. I doubt they did anything more tasking than arranging cones and coming up with new P.E exercises for training.
The good he did for the club was gone as soon as he signed on to become permanent boss.
He was a mood lightener, a palette cleanser, after Jose. He signed on and that’s when the terrible coaching and lack of direction started to affect the club and the players. It helped lower standards across the board.
The complete unpredictability of the team was a massive sign that something wasn’t right. The “more exciting play” came from the chaos of his coaching.
His legacy is as someone who should have left after 5 months, but instead was in charge of a team of world class players and has wasted years in those players development.
Ole the player was a fantastic servant to the club, Ole the manager was a negligent choice that may have set the club back years.
He was a mood lightener, a palette cleanser, after Jose. He signed on and that’s when the terrible coaching and lack of direction started to affect the club and the players. It helped lower standards across the board.
The complete unpredictability of the team was a massive sign that something wasn’t right. The “more exciting play” came from the chaos of his coaching.
His legacy is as someone who should have left after 5 months, but instead was in charge of a team of world class players and has wasted years in those players development.
Ole the player was a fantastic servant to the club, Ole the manager was a negligent choice that may have set the club back years.
Who gives a shit really.
Thats not really his legacy, more like of those that keep doing that stupid shit.
Thats not really his legacy, more like of those that keep doing that stupid shit.
Absolutely. And it pretty much echoes what I feel as well and tried to state in my reply to nimble but I couldn't express it as succinctly. He did a lot of very good things and his first two seasons were an undoubted success for me. The issue was that he had to deal with the shit show above him who consistently failed him until this summer, ironically enough (though they still couldn't resist that Ronaldo signing which ultimately sabotaged him).
I sincerely hope that Rangnick can be that disrupter that our board desperately needs, but the fact he's here shows that Ole did a good job. Cast your mind back to 2018 and the club was a toxic mess. Managers were actively avoiding the job because it objectively was seen as a poisoned chalice. Ole upended all of that to the extent that Poch was willing to quit his current job to come here. The back office systems that were nonexistent are here now, because of him driving that process. He had the balls to do a clearout when none of his predecessors bothered.
All of this was done, before we even talk about the league finishes which allowed us to get the genuine world class players we got this summer, but if you read this thread, you'd think we were having consecutive 8th placed finishes and going nowhere as a club.
I'm glad that 90% of the posters here are unlikely to ever see Old Trafford let alone go to a game. The supporters, who you know, support the club, know and appreciate the job he did and as far as I'm concerned, that's fine by me. I'll be taking my usual seat later today and I'll be belting out the Ole songs loud and proud, just as I did when I was at Stamford Bridge on Sunday.
The naysayers who seem incapable of grasping that concept of support will never get what it means to be supporter rather than a consumer, but I suppose that's the way it's trending for most big clubs...
This is what I thought too. Whilst I'm not sure, it's Ole to me that got things like a new DOF in place and helping to give a role to Fletcher so he can kind of always be there as raised technical director (no idea what that is but still).
It wasn't just the players, the club felt a bit more sturdy with some football people making a bit more football decisions.
Whilst it's dissapointing he failed long term - I have nothing but love for the guy because he did things out of love for United and whilst it didn't show to everyone, it did show to some like me.
I really wouldn't call any of his seasons a succes at all. Fair play for making top 4 in consecutive years.
The first half season he bottled top 4 by an absolutely terrible run after a great initial run, huge managerial bounce but still he deserves credit for that initial run. PSG was huge, but ultimately reasonably meaningless other than showing character. The football was horrid and embarassing if we are being real.
2nd season was quite awful until Bruno came, he could have easily been sacked after Burnley. Covid seems to have suited us more than any other side for some reason, I don't think Rashford, Mason, Martial, Bruno have been as good ever since but that was a strong 2nd half of the season after the "restart" as well but losing to Sevilla over 2 matches was again really not good enough and an embarassment for the difference in star quality but did a good job to make 3rd, a Leicester total collapse was necessary too. We were still a team miles from City and Liverpool mind.
3rd season, awful start of the season. Had a very bad pre-season due to circumstances, but that start was horrible. United picked up and even came on top, and then came in free-fall again, showing the lack of bottle from the team and manager. Failed in Turkey, and couldnt make it out of the group which is a terrible feat. He got tactically outclassed vs Leipzig, with a far worse team which seemed as the evidence that Ole Gunnar Solskjær isnt good enough if the majority still didn't know it.
Did a decent job in the PL throughout from them to maintain 2nd, toothless against Villareal which was shameful again and worthy of sacking. Not being able to win the EL with that squad is just shameful.
This is without considering the awful cup runs, struggling to get to finals, getting beat by lesser sides whilst the club was desperate for trophies.
He could have lost his job in every season up until this season if he replicated this at Bayern Munich.
Sure some things were positive and there's no point to take away from that, but some were so deluded by this "progress" thing. There was progress in the league finishes yes, but ultimately it was ever far from good enough.
Even during all this time there were periods where we really overperformed our xG, made so much comebacks that was never going to be sustainable, didnt have a clear brand of football or individuals were bailing us out. These things are nice, but not the making of a top team that will challenge for the league or CL which includes teams like Liverpool, City, Bayern, Real, Chelsea (Tuchel).
Most like to act as if it is Ronaldo that has ruined his team and inbalanced everything. Horribly unfair. The signs were there and have been there for a very long time, it was never good enough from Ole, who I think has even done far better than his tactical acumen showing that being a coach is not just about your tactical ability. This season the luck ran out, the expectations were raised (even without raised expectations he should have been sacked this season), and it finally was clear for the strongest Ole-supporter that he just isn't good enough.
The first half season he bottled top 4 by an absolutely terrible run after a great initial run, huge managerial bounce but still he deserves credit for that initial run. PSG was huge, but ultimately reasonably meaningless other than showing character. The football was horrid and embarassing if we are being real.
2nd season was quite awful until Bruno came, he could have easily been sacked after Burnley. Covid seems to have suited us more than any other side for some reason, I don't think Rashford, Mason, Martial, Bruno have been as good ever since but that was a strong 2nd half of the season after the "restart" as well but losing to Sevilla over 2 matches was again really not good enough and an embarassment for the difference in star quality but did a good job to make 3rd, a Leicester total collapse was necessary too. We were still a team miles from City and Liverpool mind.
3rd season, awful start of the season. Had a very bad pre-season due to circumstances, but that start was horrible. United picked up and even came on top, and then came in free-fall again, showing the lack of bottle from the team and manager. Failed in Turkey, and couldnt make it out of the group which is a terrible feat. He got tactically outclassed vs Leipzig, with a far worse team which seemed as the evidence that Ole Gunnar Solskjær isnt good enough if the majority still didn't know it.
Did a decent job in the PL throughout from them to maintain 2nd, toothless against Villareal which was shameful again and worthy of sacking. Not being able to win the EL with that squad is just shameful.
This is without considering the awful cup runs, struggling to get to finals, getting beat by lesser sides whilst the club was desperate for trophies.
He could have lost his job in every season up until this season if he replicated this at Bayern Munich.
Sure some things were positive and there's no point to take away from that, but some were so deluded by this "progress" thing. There was progress in the league finishes yes, but ultimately it was ever far from good enough.
Even during all this time there were periods where we really overperformed our xG, made so much comebacks that was never going to be sustainable, didnt have a clear brand of football or individuals were bailing us out. These things are nice, but not the making of a top team that will challenge for the league or CL which includes teams like Liverpool, City, Bayern, Real, Chelsea (Tuchel).
Most like to act as if it is Ronaldo that has ruined his team and inbalanced everything. Horribly unfair. The signs were there and have been there for a very long time, it was never good enough from Ole, who I think has even done far better than his tactical acumen showing that being a coach is not just about your tactical ability. This season the luck ran out, the expectations were raised (even without raised expectations he should have been sacked this season), and it finally was clear for the strongest Ole-supporter that he just isn't good enough.
Some of you really take the biscuit. Now it is because of Ole that we got Rangnick? I would say it is because of Jose. Without Jose, there would be no Ole. The fact we are in 10th place is because of him. If we got the 2nd because of him then surely being 10th is also because of him.
It was only in the knowledge that one day Ole would come that inspired Alex Ferguson to take the managers job here in the first place
Those here who are blinded by their own hatred of a United legend, who can't see that tangible progress was made by the club in the two and a half years he was in charge, who refuses to see that during his tenure the club often played good, entertaining football= let them crawl back to their woodword. I have had enough of these irritating bugs.
No one hates Ole, don't be delusional.
There was progress in league finishes but ultimately never good enough. The points totals were nowhere near good enough which shows as it didnt even beat Mourinho's best, and league finishes are always also quite conditioned on other teams.
People on the caf were convinced we were a better team than Liverpool because we finished higher. As is proving, it was just because Liverpool had a freak year and are now going back to their best. Chelsea had a failing manager and are now a top side with Tuchel. So yes, there was progress but absolutely nothing to hide behind, especially when the poor European campagnes, and poor cup runs are considered as well.
United have had plenty of entertaining matches and good matches during his tenure, but it wasnt sustained. It was ranging from 5-0 to Leipzig to horrible football the next week, the result of the poor coached team that we have been throughout with quality players.
What a load of nonsense. Its the idea that he was a genius thats irrational.
He was a lovely guy, steeped in United history who came in and did a good job for a while but should never have got the job full time. We he not still regarded as a United legend he would never have got the job in the first place and certainly wouldnt have lasted as long as he did.
He brought some good things to the table but there were always major question marks about his abilities as a coach and they were crystallised.
Progress? Im not so sure. yeah he got rid of some players that we needed rid of and I like a number of his signings but what progress really? Took over a club on its arse and left it on its arse with absolutely no defined way of playing and a collection of players that dont really fit together. £400m spent to take us from a high of two trophies and a second place under the previous manager to a high of second place under him. Progress?
Also his signings.
Harry Maguire £80m - hammered constantly for not being good enough and a waste of money
Wan Bissaka £50m - Second only to the above for the same treatment
VDB £35m - Never played
Amad - £20m - Never played, promising when he arrived
Dan James £15m - Not good enough but sold for a profit
Alex Telles £18m(?) - Never really played
Pellistri - £10m(?) - Loaned out
Sancho £75m - Poor start and played out of position
Ronaldo £25m - Excellent in terms of goals but you get the feeling bought with no clue what to do with him
Varane £40m - Obviously an excellent player but hasn't affected the changes we expected and injured
Bruno £50m - Obviously the stand out
Its not a great list really. Some decent players players but its not chock full of successes in Oles tenure. Maybe another manager will have more success with them.
I agree with everything you say here. Good post.
Nothing about hatred I love Ole as a guy he’s great as a person and ambassador for the club.
Please tell me where this progress is though? Apart from spending a lot of cash anyone can do that with our income. Mou won things and built a better side with less I would argue
We won nothing, competed for nothing. Finished with poor points tally’s each season. Spent a tonne of cash/wages only to find out our side had no backbone when it mattered.
If you are talking about the culture of the club I would argue it split the fan base more than any other manager arguably so wasn’t smart.
In-fighting has become more prevelant and we have not seen enough youngsters take a true step up apart from Greenwood who would have regardless. I struggle to see who has improved that much. Shaw & Fred maybe?
Rashford I would argue has done more for our club on a PR level than Ole has last few years.
People here do some really bizarre mental gymnastics to support their theory that Ole is a good manager.
At this point it's not even worth having this conversation with them.
At this point it's not even worth having this conversation with them.
Who was?
I haven't seen anyone say he's a good manager, just some are obviously more forgiving of his managerial shortcomings for what he gave as a player than others. Who is saying he was a good manager?
I had discussions on our 2nd place over summer and at the end of last season. That sure, 2nd is nice and to be expected, especially given the season.
City and Liverpool are in general better, an awful lot better. Liverpool had a freak season and Chelsea had a big part of the season under Lampard.
So finishing 2nd, especially with that point tally, though decent, it is nothing to celebrate. Ole didnt overperform or anything and there was barely any progress. United's 19/20 from when Bruno joined was better than our 20/21 campaign goalscoring wise and point wise, there was barely any progress if we put things into context.
The regular culprits obviously argued against it and were convinces we were better than Liverpool and Chelsea as proven by our 2nd place, PROGRESS and it will prove with a proper league challenge in 2021/2022. We have all seen how that turned out.
Even Ole said the season was not a good barometer of United's progress, given Liverpool's injuries and Chelsea changing manager. Yet apparently loads of unnamed posters thought we'd turned some corner? It's just not true is it?
It wasnt too long ago that many fans argued that Ole was in the top echelon of PL managers, and that his inclusion in the top 10 managers of the world (UEFA men's coach of the year) was justified. Numerous posters have had him as one of the best managers out there during his tenure.
Most questioning that anyone could have done better than him.
I missed Ole saying that, and will try and find that thread/discussions for you (which is quite tedious). I have no reason to make that up.
I dont get the point you are making though, so many posters have held unto it as progress till this very day, even if Ole said otherwise. Just as the poster right above.
It is what they used as justification for his new contract and seeing what he could do with a "real squad" this season, see whether we could "progress" again to be real challengers.
The club were looking for a DOF already it’s something that happened with or without him. He was just the first manager that didn’t have the authority to oppose it.
Ole tried but all he really has was being a nice guy and knowing what culture of club should be even if he couldn’t implement it. He kept us treading water which short term was ok but long term has and will be damaging.
Whilst a lot thought the previous two seasons were progress for me we were just taking a long time to get back to where we’d been in Jose’s last full season. Alarm bells were ringing from very early on and I’m just shocked it didn’t unravel sooner. As painful as results have been and as sad as I am to see Ole look so lost it was better it ended sooner rather than later as Ole was never going to be able to compete.
"Progress" would have been justified had we further kicked on to a title challenge this season and built on that second place last season. The problem is the wheels fell off so you look back on a second place attained in unique circumstances and wonder if it actually was progress at all. How this season went would always define how Ole was viewed as a coach and we got the answer sadly.
Think I agree with the sentiments but even already last season it was clear that that second place had several asterisks. Pointwise and goalwise it was no better than Bruno's United in 19/20, Liverpool had a freak crisis, Chelsea had Lampard for a big part, and the ultimate point tally wasnt great. 2nd is still good nonetheless, but we should all learn to put things in context and not just stare at one number or stat.
Many? Without knowing, I'd imagine you're being generous there. If there were fans claiming that he's in the top echelons of PL managers, I would assume they're few and far between.
I genuinely don't recall anyone ever claiming Ole was a top 10 manager in the world
My beef, such as it is, is that I see a lot of people saying this stuff but when challenged can show no evidence of it. Sure people got behind Ole as the manager of the club, why wouldn't you as a fan, even if you know his lack of credentials for the job, but I just don't buy people were putting him up there with Pep or Klopp. A lot of it is just revisionism which some posters use to try and score internet points by saying they wanted him out from the off.
I havent done so much, but I find it very tedious to find back old threads and where you were discussing what. When I am on Redcafe on a laptop, I will go and look for you.I genuinely don't recall anyone ever claiming Ole was a top 10 manager in the world
My beef, such as it is, is that I see a lot of people saying this stuff but when challenged can show no evidence of it. Sure people got behind Ole as the manager of the club, why wouldn't you as a fan, even if you know his lack of credentials for the job, but I just don't buy people were putting him up there with Pep or Klopp.
No one ever put Ole next to Pep/Klopp I hope, some found his inclusion in coach of the year laughable and were criticised. There was also a thread not too long ago, and maybe even multiple times of where Ole ranks as PL manager, some would have him top 5, others bottom 5.
When on redcafe on my laptop I'll do well to find some of the threads. I don't think any had him on Pep's or Klopp's level, but certainly higher than many of the mid-table / relegation side managers.
agree with your post, but some of the fees are inaccurate
Telles = £13.5M
Varane = £34M
Ronaldo = £12M +add-ons (max is £19M)
Bruno = £55
There will always be people who stay with the ship after it went down, they'll spout their nonsense till the end.
Sorry I didn't have time to look them up, Im sure you are correct. The point still stands though. He bought a lot of players that are individually good as players when you look at a list but when you look at what they are doing on the pitch you struggle to see it. Its like buying a pile of designer clothes that piece by piece look nice but wear them all together you look like a shambles.
Alex Telles is probably a very good "full back" in a team where the full backs job is to bomb forward at every opportunity
Wan Bissaka is probably a very good full back in a system where the job of a full back is to defend first and foremost and then just give the ball to a winger
He bought both
Cavani is great as a pressing striker who has an incredible work rate and works the line constantly
Ronaldo explodes into life when the ball comes near him and has one of the best scoring records in the world
He bought both and rotates them.
You get the idea....
Spot on.
Yes all the change in structure in the club was part of Ole’s master plan and not something the club have been banging on about doing for years now.
As a manager?
no trophies
and we are tenth
Possibly can even be overtaken by Brentford if results go negatively tonight
so that’s his legacy
no trophies
and we are tenth
Possibly can even be overtaken by Brentford if results go negatively tonight
so that’s his legacy