Yes, not fair. Although the fact that he was sacked when we were 8th, worse than we were under Jose when he was in full meltdown and lost the dressing room (6th and more points) is really damning.
Solskjaer's legacy and his future
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When I went to OT this season at the Stretford end pretty much everyone was ole out and couldn't believe we've wasted so much time on him.
Then there are other posters on here who regularly go to games and have him as our worst coach since SAF.
Also, I'm glad it's a minority of match going supporters who have this ridiculous belief that they are the only ones supporting the team. United is a global club and I assure you the worldwide fans matter way more in context then locals.
What position were we when ole was sacked and what position were we when Jose was sacked ?
And what progress we literally won trophies with Jose. We have a bloated squad full of talent where not all can fit in. This was a 3 year disaster.
Where was the cronyism in the appointments of LVG and Mourinho, or the idea that Giggs would be groomed to take over from LVG then dumped? Sure we can look back and say Ole was a mistake but I think everyone got a bit caught up in how he turned things around at the time.
you’re persistent I’ll give you that…
I’m curious though, was the 140 million net spend in the 2019/2020 season not good enough? How much money do you expect us to spend man?
Out of curiosity, who were these managers actively avoiding the job? I don’t really get it. Mourinho got given a new contract the summer he left indicating there were no plans to replace him. We immediately installed Ole as interim. We then gave him the new long term deal after PSG because of his good start. So where along those lines where we trying to and interviewing a string of managers who were rejecting us? Doesn’t add up to me.
I go to games…. I’ll say that before I say the rest. But those who go to games don’t necessarily have a better grasp of football than those who don’t. And there’s numerous match goers on here who prove that.
This has been drummed on here a lot but a lot of fans are ‘United above all else’ what is best for United is their number one aim. Not things like ‘backing the manager no matter what’ or ‘I go to games you dont’ point scoring.
The division was largely caused because so many people knew Ole was never going to be a successful United manager and they based this on their knowledge of football.
How can you expect people to be fully behind something they don’t believe and have no faith in?
I think this is what you and a lot of others have completely failed to grasp over the last three years. It’s the same concept as fans never believing McFred will be a highly successful midfield partnership. It doesn’t mean you don’t support the team it just means you put your football knowledge first before tribalism.
I get Ole was a United legend (I own two Solskjaer jerseys) but that doesn’t mean he should have been backed blindly. He was never going to be good enough. I agree that there is now some exaggerating going on about how he did. He didn’t do terribly or bad but bottom line is he didn’t do enough. He got a big opportunity and he didn’t take it.
Measuring how well Ole did in terms of rebuilding is not something that can be done now, despite your attempts to. If we become a successful club again in two to three years then fine but at the moment it’s all conjecture.
The banner will be cringe but oh well it is what it is. At least he's gone now.
I think Ole wanted the best for the club. I think he did his best and it wasn't good enough. I dont think you blame the person when they do their best therefore I dont think his overall legacy is hugely affected for him trying his best. If there is a banner saying "we still love you" or whatever then yeah a bit twee and not necessary but probably true so fair enough.
Its difficult to hate nice guys and he's undoubtedly a nice guy who came up short. We move on and his legacy will always be the CL final in 99.
Its difficult to hate nice guys and he's undoubtedly a nice guy who came up short. We move on and his legacy will always be the CL final in 99.
A bit like the "Chosen One" eh?
I don't disagree with you, he's a legend by most metrics, and was a wonderful player for us. It would be great to have a player like him in this current squad.
Also as a manager he did a lot of good things during his tenure, but clearly he wasnt good enough.
When I think of this thread, I am mainly looking at what he left behind and not his legendary status. That status would only change for me if it became more than obvious that he was only in it for a final payday (which would be his right), and not had the club's best interest at heart. I think he and the board mutually agreed that the time was up, and he has left in some grace.
When it comes to what he left behind, he has left a team behind that is very poor tactically with no clear brand of football that fails at most of the basics and doesnt get the maximum out of the individuals.
Sure, AWB, Maguire, Sancho, Telles, Donny etc are improvements ability-wise, which is a good thing. But it isnt good enough, they aren't well enough-coached or used or some of them might never be good enough for a new manager. That isn't good at all.
He's left behind no trophies, other than PSG Away x2, Leipzig Home basically no European succes (are individual matches even succes one might argue).
He has barely developed any youth bar Greenwood who might be our biggest youth talent since Giggs, he gets credit for it but does he really get credit for it..
He's also left behind a better squad abilitywise, a better atmosphere at the club, 2 consecutive top 4 finishes on the positive side. It isnt terrible, nor great.
'On its knees' suggests the club is struggling like Villa, not just floundering in Arsenal-esque also ran territory after successive (albeit very distant) top three finishes due to sustained mismanagement.
EDIT: I'd also argue general ineptitude is a bigger problem than cronyism, although the latter is an example the former.
There are levels though. To take it down to Aston Villa's level would be an achievement for even someone as incompetent as Solskjaer.
And Arsenal have their own Solskjaer
Maybe not the last couple of pages but there's been plenty of insults flung by both sides- I see all the reported posts.
We've had threads attacking matchgoing threads for cheering and posters calling anyone wanting a win a 'negligent fan'.
'Irritable bugs' is quite mild.
Well, what exactly does it mean to "think that a manager is not good enough"? How do you know? The simple fact is, you don't. You're not in the dressing room, you're not on the training field, you're not privy to how he thinks or what he does, and even if you were, you would not be well qualified to judge. All you have is reputation and the results that are observable on the pitch and in the standings. Reputation as we all know is not necessarily a reliable yardstick, especially not for someone who has not previously been on this level - people who have had great success in the past sometimes fail, new arrivals sometimes turn out well. And as for observable results, you're kidding yourself if you think that it was a widespread view among fans, experts and commentators alike prior to this season that those showed OGS wasn't good enough. On the contrary, the general view was that while there were still question marks that hadn't been answered, there was on the whole good progress and good, if not great, results. No one outside fans on social media were arguing that OGS should be sacked at the beginning of August, and there was a general mood of expectation and optimism.
So to me it frankly seems rather daft to sit in your coach and decide that you think a manager is not good enough, unless there are visible results to show that he isn't (at least in the context of this particular team at this particular time). But of course it's easy - if you take the view that a manager isn't good enough, you are almost invariably proven right sooner or later. Not many managers leave a top club in any other way than by getting sacked.
Again twisting facts here. I have never said Ole can;t be criticized. There are ample legit reasons why his football is open to criticism. But the way for a few months now some people (pricks not fans) want to turn even his genuine achievements into nothing, is shameful.
Give credit where it is due- that;s all I am saying.
Any links to those reports? Reliable ones, not click bait. All I’ve seen is praise. Putting out cones? What the feck do you guys believe professional football is?
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It was described in the Athletic article by Whitwell and Crafton.Any links to those reports? Reliable ones, not click bait. All I’ve seen is praise. Putting out cones? What the feck do you guys believe professional football is?
https://theathletic.com/2969517/202...ster-united-legend?source=user-shared-article
It is under paywal, but here the relevant excrept:
"In the dressing room following that chaotic defeat, where United got it back to 2-2 on 82 minutes only to promptly concede again before their hosts added a late fourth, Solskjaer asked his players: “What’s the problem?”. Their silence in response told a story.
Eventually, Eric Bailly stood up and questioned why fellow centre-back Harry Maguire, with one training session under his belt after missing three weeks with a calf strain, had been picked to play rather than him.
Solskjaer is said to have become defensive, insisting that, as manager, he made the decisions. This caused confusion, given his initial request for feedback. When the manager left the room, Fernandes spoke at length, encouraging his team-mates. Eventually, a couple of them suggested any pretence should end and the real issue addressed. A very senior player is said to have quietly replied to that: “We all know what the problem is.”
So that is what you base it on? Bailly not beeing happy? Why not balance your view with the support the players and staff have said? There are no doubt we didn’t preform, and why shouldn’t “as to why” being discussed? This thread is so embarrassing I don’t know if it hurts being a fellow fan or to laugh about it. You can’t be serious
This is the same paper saying Ole chose VDB over Grealish mate. We all know Ole didn’t chose VDB over anyone..
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When a manager comes in the natural thing to do is look at their resumé which is why I'm seeing plenty of people already knocking Rangnick or at least doubting his qualities even though in his case it's the bigger picture that should be looked at when his tenure of interim is finished. With Ole I don’t think many people had a problem when he was made interim even if it came out of nowhere. The problem came when he was given his first permanent contract which if the club had of waited until the end of the season as they should of done he wouldn't have gotten the job.
Giving him that job full time put a lot of doubt in peoples minds. Especially after the way the season capitulated and not forgetting that Ole hadn't won a trophy since 2014 which in it's own way tell it's own story if he was good enough or not. Of course a manager can come into a top level club from nowhere and succeed (Pep, Zidane) but I don’t think I've ever seen a manager come into a top club and start winning the serious trophies after being in the game as long as Ole has.
You keep talking about results without mentioning performances which is where I think the fanbase was divided most. People were comparing Klopp and Ole after their first 100 games but the fundamental difference was Klopp was showing improvement month on month whereas Ole didn't. We were a mishmash of a team that while getting results didn't look like we were getting close (or anywhere near) the standard required of winning the big trophies. It's not even hindsight. The proof was there all along if people chose to see it. Some did, some didn't and here we are.
So that is what you base it on? Bailly not beeing happy? Why not balance your view with the support the players and staff have said? There are no doubt we didn’t preform, and why shouldn’t “as to why” being discussed? This thread is so embarrassing I don’t know if it hurts being a fellow fan or to laugh about it. You can’t be serious
This is the same paper saying Ole chose VDB over Grealish mate. We all know Ole didn’t chose VDB over anyone..
Then why did Ole buy him?
What has he done that the managers we sacked hasn't done? Getting 2nd place? Jose did that too. And won a couple of trophies with it. He did not have any genuine achievement for a club like Manchester United. Except make us a laughing stock and Liverpool fans singing Ole is at the wheel. Jose was sacked when we were 7th. What was our position when Ole was sacked?
Guessing on behalf of this poster but I think it means they don't think the manager is good enough to manage the club.
Think this is specifically why the poster used the verb 'think' and not 'know'. Also how do you know you're not gonna get run over when you next cross a road? The simple fact is, you don't know etc...
Unless your point is basically that other people shouldn't be allowed to think things that don't align with your own viewpoints. Which is a different but, I would wager, still fairly substantial problem!
The fickle mob has a short memory. Thank you for all the good times, #20Legend
Any links to those reports? Reliable ones, not click bait. All I’ve seen is praise. Putting out cones? What the feck do you guys believe professional football is?
Maybe take a look and find them? They're everywhere. Social media, press...
I might ask you the same question, what do you think professional sport is? I know it's not taking a break when you've been hammered by Liverpool and Watford.
I've played sport to a decent level and when you play bad or get humiliated or are struggling you hit the training field harder, you spend more hours doing drills, practising on your weaknesses, hell even try things you haven't before just to give yourself an edge. Younsont go onna jolly or excitedly point out you don't have anything to do with X Y or Z.
If that means you get up an hour early and put out cones you do it. It's professional sport bit a Sunday pub side where you have a piss up winnlose or draw and have a smile and "same again next week lads".
What "genuine achievements" would those be? Spending 400 million? Winning nothing? Imposing no discernible style of play in 3 years? Here are some more:
– Twenty-one percent of United’s 63 home defeats in Premier League history have come under Solskjaer, who has lost 13 out of 55.
– In 2019-20, United endured their worst start to a league season since 1986-87, picking up just 10 points from their opening nine games.
– The Norwegian is the only United manager to have lost a European home game by a margin of more than one goal.
– Tottenham recorded their biggest ever win over United at Old Trafford in October 2020, comfortably beating Solskjaer’s side 6-1.
– During their game against Liverpool in October 2021, United were four goals behind at half-time for the first time in Premier League history.
– Solskjaer oversaw United’s heaviest ever defeat at home to Liverpool and their biggest loss against the Reds since 1895.
– United’s 5-0 defeat to Liverpool saw them concede five goals at home without scoring a goal themselves for the first time since 1955.
– United have lost seven Premier League games by four or more goals and Solskjaer has been in charge for three of them.
– United managed just four touches in the opposition penalty area during their 2-0 defeat to Manchester City in November 2021, the lowest they have ever recorded since Opta began recording this data in the 2008-09 season.
– The Red Devils haven’t kept a clean sheet in their last 14 home games, their longest run without once since 1959.
– While 2021 isn’t over yet, United have already lost eight home games in all competitions in a single year for the first time since 1989.
– During Solskjaer’s reign, Crystal Palace beat United at Old Trafford in consecutive seasons for the first time in their history.
– In recent seasons, Burnley recorded their first win at Old Trafford since 1962 while Sheffield United claimed their first Old Trafford win since 1973.
you’re persistent I’ll give you that…
I’m curious though, was the 140 million net spend in the 2019/2020 season not good enough? How much money do you expect us to spend man?
Out of curiosity, who were these managers actively avoiding the job? I don’t really get it. Mourinho got given a new contract the summer he left indicating there were no plans to replace him. We immediately installed Ole as interim. We then gave him the new long term deal after PSG because of his good start. So where along those lines where we trying to and interviewing a string of managers who were rejecting us? Doesn’t add up to me.
I go to games…. I’ll say that before I say the rest. But those who go to games don’t necessarily have a better grasp of football than those who don’t. And there’s numerous match goers on here who prove that.
This has been drummed on here a lot but a lot of fans are ‘United above all else’ what is best for United is their number one aim. Not things like ‘backing the manager no matter what’ or ‘I go to games you dont’ point scoring.
The division was largely caused because so many people knew Ole was never going to be a successful United manager and they based this on their knowledge of football.
How can you expect people to be fully behind something they don’t believe and have no faith in?
I think this is what you and a lot of others have completely failed to grasp over the last three years. It’s the same concept as fans never believing McFred will be a highly successful midfield partnership. It doesn’t mean you don’t support the team it just means you put your football knowledge first before tribalism.
I get Ole was a United legend (I own two Solskjaer jerseys) but that doesn’t mean he should have been backed blindly. He was never going to be good enough. I agree that there is now some exaggerating going on about how he did. He didn’t do terribly or bad but bottom line is he didn’t do enough. He got a big opportunity and he didn’t take it.
Measuring how well Ole did in terms of rebuilding is not something that can be done now, despite your attempts to. If we become a successful club again in two to three years then fine but at the moment it’s all conjecture.
Good post.
I know what it is. I’ve done it and taken an education in it. Not in it anymore, but my kids coaches have higher standard than you lot give Ole credit for. And it’s a progressive sport. I don’t know shit when I sit down with his coaches. The simplicity spout on here is beyond embarrassing. Good on you for carrying some experience! Then you know you don’t blame anyone else for the shit show some of our players have been serving. You take responsibility. How many times did you preform like shit looking at your coaches for blame!? I can’t remember a single time!
I can’t. I can’t find a reliable source anywhere. All click bait. There are so much academic criticism to lay out, but all I read is piss takes, drama and blame game. Get real mate
How did Klopp fare in his fourth year? How did Liverpool play? Did Tottenham immediately change their fortune once Conte came in? Simple takes on complex problems is the biggest of downfalls. The word from within the club is he did a very good job setting the club up for success. Fair enough odds catched up with him this season, but come on! Have some self respect, and to Ole for the job he did.
Not really. Highly subjective, besides the last paragraph. No one knows. We will see, but no one knows from the outside. It was the same people calling him an idiot thinking Pereira was good enough. The minute he could replace him, he did. Who knows what he thought about McFred. Not much options for the man. And who knows how much they tried replacing them. This week Grealish comes out with something we didn’t know the extent of. Players didn’t preform this season. That’s down to his responsibility. End of. Finally showing your true face there Robbie, for all the intermediate role you trying to play..
Riiigggghhhhttttt. All this because I said "good post"
Fyi, I never once hid I was a massive Ole doubter. The post he replied to was far more subjective, and actually full of misty eyed bollox, in all honesty.
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Don't be stupid. I never said he cannot be sacked. What I want as a United fan is minimum respect for a club legend who had tried to play good football while he coached United and brought them to second place in the league and a place in the europa finals. (may not seem much to you, but you are not the only guy in the world)
The above is the kind of post why I bellieve there are fans and then there are pricks.
Not a very good way to deal with facts.
You can't even come up with one. Figures.
I'm sorry that facts hurt your feelings. Keep calling people you don't agree with pricks, by the way. It'll go well for you.
To be fair, you left out every record Ole set as well. So I wouldn’t shout out to loud if i was you. If believing you operate in a factial world that is. Your hypothesis is as far away from the concept of hypothesis you can come. Try balancing it, and then come back with the same smug.
I didn't claim Ole had achieved tangible success. Why would I make his arguments for him?
Do you know how a debate works?
Geez, he even got a "Thank you" banner. Bloody hell, why?
Facts he said! FACHTS! Such selective FACHTS should be ridiculed if someone has even a modicum of intelligence!
Ok, give us your facts then.
Won famous Top 4 trophy.
Won good mood trophy (of course).
Not parking the car on SAF's spot.
Anything else?
I apologise to the last guy. I SHOULD have made your arguments for you, given that you can't come up with anything.
God bless the ignore feature.
And yet by the time Solkjaer took over LVG and Mourinho had amassed a shit load of it in the squad and failed to shift much of it on.
Indeed.
Can you quote one post on this entire forum where someone claimed Solskjaer was a managerial genius?