Solskjaer's legacy and his future

He left us in a better shape than where we were when Jose left.

That shouldn't have taken 3 years though - but it's hard to sack a man after he finished 2nd and got to the final of the Europa League. Certainly shouldn't have ever received a new contract though. Absurd considering he hadn't won anything.
 
He is a Manchester United legend but if people think the goal against Bayern doesn't play a large part in that they're being naive.

I mean he played second fiddle to Cole or Ruud during most of his time but he is a bigger legend than both.
 
All I’m saying is, we pay tribute to his achievements as a legendary Man United player all the time, and rightly so. He put the ball in the Germans’ net in 1999, no one can ever take that away from him. However, he was an utter failure as a manager aside from a good 3 month spell, and finished off as one of the most derided managers in PL history, not helped by an even bigger failure at Cardiff in 2014.

By putting this banner out and paying tribute to the man after his sacking shows how far we’ve fallen. It’s nothing to do with his playing career, it’s just us sympathising with his sacking. In that case, where’s Mourinho’s gold statue? How about the LvG stand? Even Fergie didn’t get this. He was tactically rubbish, and lost a large portion of our dressing room by the end.

Also, before anyone says anything, of course I have no right to slate the actions of our match going fans. I’ve only been to OT once as a result of alternating between living in Malaysia and Oxford, while they’ve been hundreds of times. Heck, one of my life goals is to become an OT season ticket holder and be with them in the Stretford End. However, I am entitled to my opinion, and I think it is patently ridiculous. We ought to stop rewarding failure, and soon.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
Just wow.
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:lol::lol::lol:

Great argument. Do you disagree he's a club legend?

AFC NimbleThumb said:
Not spoken of enough. People were so eager for him to succeed they literally put his career ahead of the rather obvious decline.
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This is unmitigated nonsense. Nobody thought getting rid of Ole this season was the wrong decision, we're just sad that it didn't work out for a club legend.

The idea that match going fans holding a banner to pay tribute to said club legend makes them fans of Ole over United, while you're watching the match from your sofa, is absurd. It's almost like a reverse top red, but without any of the actual effort or investment.
 
With that midfield of giggs-scholes-keane-beckham providing the balls,

Any decent forward that comes off the bench is likely to hit similar figures.

Also, whoever was around that penalty box on that faithful night at nou camp, could also have stick the ball into the net.
Yes, iconic goal as it is, iconic moment for Ole but still.....

Let's not get too carried away here.
 
MalaysianRed7 said:
All I’m saying is, we pay tribute to his achievements as a legendary Man United player all the time, and rightly so. He put the ball in the Germans’ net in 1999, no one can ever take that away from him. However, he was an utter failure as a manager aside from a good 3 month spell, and finished off as one of the most derided managers in PL history, not helped by an even bigger failure at Cardiff in 2014.

By putting this banner out and paying tribute to the man after his sacking shows how far we’ve fallen. It’s nothing to do with his playing career, it’s just us sympathising with his sacking. In that case, where’s Mourinho’s gold statue? How about the LvG stand? Even Fergie didn’t get this. He was tactically rubbish, and lost a large portion of our dressing room by the end.

Also, before anyone says anything, of course I have no right to slate the actions of our match going fans. I’ve only been to OT once as a result of alternating between living in Malaysia and Oxford, while they’ve been hundreds of times. Heck, one of my life goals is to become an OT season ticket holder and be with them in the Stretford End. However, I am entitled to my opinion, and I think it is patently ridiculous. We ought to stop rewarding failure, and soon.
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Your comparisons are laughably bad. Why did Ole get a banner and LvG and Mou didn't? Because Ole was a club legend even before his managerial reign (not to mention Mou spent his entire time here talking about how rubbish the club was).

You say Fergie didn't get anything like this, but he had a stand named after him. So you immediately contradicted yourself.

You are entitled to your opinion. Perhaps you lack the emotional attachment to the club, and therefore the legends, that the regular fans have?

It's also possible they disagree with your assessment of him as a manager.

We aren't the first club to do this either - Chelsea did exactly the same for Lampard when he was sacked. It isn't rewarding failure, its just a tribute to a club legend.
 
Lynty said:
He left us in a better shape than where we were when Jose left.

That shouldn't have taken 3 years though - but it's hard to sack a man after he finished 2nd and got to the final of the Europa League. Certainly shouldn't have ever received a new contract though. Absurd considering he hadn't won anything.
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The EL final is one of the reasons he should've been sacked. It's not an achievement, it's not even the bare minimum.
 
Good player, great servant to the club, fan favourite back in the early 2000s? - check, check, check. One of my favourites when I was playing football back in high school? Definitely.

Manchester United legend? Not really. Unless you really dilute the title 'legend'. To me that's for the likes of Charlton, Best, Robbo, Bruce, Scholes, Law et al. If he is one, then so are Yorke and Cole and John O'Shea and the lot of them between 1996 and 2007 so make of that what you will.
 
Amir said:
I'd say they may feel closer to him as a symbol of what United was to what United is right now.
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Yeah but Ole is one part of a huge empire. Don't know why people would nominate him as the symbol of that era when we had so many greats
 
Idxomer said:
The EL final is one of the reasons he should've been sacked. It's not an achievement, it's not even the bare minimum.
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Be realisstic. You can't sack someone for losing a final. There was multiple times to sack him a long the course of his tenure - but that's not it. IF anything he probably should have been sacked for dropping out of the Champions League so limply.
 
Lynty said:
Be realisstic. You can't sack someone for losing a final. There was multiple times to sack him a long the course of his tenure - but that's not it. IF anything he probably should have been sacked for dropping out of the Champions League so limply.
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It's not a reason not to sack someone either if you don't believe they have the ability to take the next step and that's the problem many have with the board, they couldn't see something so obvious.

There were 3 instances after the bad start of last season that made it clear -to anyone who still had doubts- that Ole is not good enough.

1. The capitulation in the CL group.
2. Not capitalizing on the chance to challenge for the league, we lost 13 points in 5 weeks after going top in January. People will say no one expected us to challenge but taking advantage of those opportunities is the mark of a good manager.
3. The way Ole managed the EL final from playing an unfit Rashford to not using his subs and generally our bland tactics on the night.
 
The Hilton said:
Your comparisons are laughably bad. Why did Ole get a banner and LvG and Mou didn't? Because Ole was a club legend even before his managerial reign (not to mention Mou spent his entire time here talking about how rubbish the club was).

You say Fergie didn't get anything like this, but he had a stand named after him. So you immediately contradicted yourself.

You are entitled to your opinion. Perhaps you lack the emotional attachment to the club, and therefore the legends, that the regular fans have?

It's also possible they disagree with your assessment of him as a manager.

We aren't the first club to do this either - Chelsea did exactly the same for Lampard when he was sacked. It isn't rewarding failure, its just a tribute to a club legend.
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You need to improve your reading comprehension. You haven’t properly addressed a single point I made, so I’ll spell it out again.

Ole is getting a banner displayed in the Stretty in his first home game after leaving, for what, I’m not too sure. Did Fergie get one in that 0-0 draw against Chelsea in 2013? No, I thought as much. Fergie’s banners are those plastered on to the stand in recognition for his achievements, and deservedly so. Funnily enough, Ole also has one for what he did as a player.

Also, Ole’s achievements as a player have been celebrated time and time again in the multitude of songs dedicated to him, and we will continue to sing about May 1999, as we should. He is still a legend. Will we keep singing about LvG or Mourinho? No, because they are not legends. However, why is Ole getting this extra tribute when they didn’t after their respective sackings? Both won more trophies than Ole, even if Mourinho did shit talk the club, which should have had him sacked after that Sevilla game, the one good point you made. Mourinho also won 2.5 trophies and got 2nd place too.

Also, what does ‘regular fans’ mean? I genuinely do not understand so please elaborate. I can assure you that I have as much, if not more, emotional connection to our legends as anyone, so don’t worry about that. Forget the bona fide legends, I still have loads of affiliation for the likes of Rafael, Park and even Dan James, simply for always representing us with passion.

Also, the Lampard thing is different. Lampard is to them what Sir Bobby Charlton is to us.
 
Regalia said:
Good player, great servant to the club, fan favourite back in the early 2000s? - check, check, check. One of my favourites when I was playing football back in high school? Definitely.

Manchester United legend? Not really. Unless you really dilute the title 'legend'. To me that's for the likes of Charlton, Best, Robbo, Bruce, Scholes, Law et al. If he is one, then so are Yorke and Cole and John O'Shea and the lot of them between 1996 and 2007 so make of that what you will.
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This looks heavily biased due to a dislike of his managerial reign, given the players you're comparing Ole to, but to give you the benefit of the doubt, I'd be really interested to know your criteria for what's required for you to use the word 'legend'.

Is it longevity? Ole was a player at United for 11 years, the same length of time as Law and Best, and slightly longer than Bruce, who are in your legends list. Yorke and Cole managed 4 and 6 respectively.
Is it performances? He's in the top 20 for goals per minute in PL history?
Is it trophies? Ole has won more with us than anyone on your list bar Scholes.
Perhaps it's loyalty? I don't remember him ever holding the club hostage or looking to leave. I'm sure you'd agree that Rooney and Ronaldo are legends, but the former threatened to leave multiple times to get a better contract, and the latter called himself a slave because we wouldn't ship him off to Madrid.
Is it just a gut feeling? If so, how do rationalise telling others who call him a legend that their gut feeling is wrong but yours is correct?

As I said, really interested to know how you qualify legends vs non legends.
 
MalaysianRed7 said:
You need to improve your reading comprehension. You haven’t properly addressed a single point I made, so I’ll spell it out again.

Ole is getting a banner displayed in the Stretty in his first home game after leaving, for what, I’m not too sure. Did Fergie get one in that 0-0 draw against Chelsea in 2013? No, I thought as much. Fergie’s banners are those plastered on to the stand in recognition for his achievements, and deservedly so. Funnily enough, Ole also has one for what he did as a player.

Also, Ole’s achievements as a player have been celebrated time and time again in the multitude of songs dedicated to him, and we will continue to sing about May 1999, as we should. He is still a legend. Will we keep singing about LvG or Mourinho? No, because they are not legends. However, why is Ole getting this extra tribute when they didn’t after their respective sackings? Both won more trophies than Ole, even if Mourinho did shit talk the club, which should have had him sacked after that Sevilla game, the one good point you made. Mourinho also won 2.5 trophies and got 2nd place too.

Also, what does ‘regular fans’ mean? I genuinely do not understand so please elaborate. I can assure you that I have as much, if not more, emotional connection to our legends as anyone, so don’t worry about that. Forget the bona fide legends, I still have loads of affiliation for the likes of Rafael, Park and even Dan James, simply for always representing us with passion.

Also, the Lampard thing is different. Lampard is to them what Sir Bobby Charlton is to us.
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Lampard is Chelsea's Sir Bobby? :lol: Even then, it isn't different by the logic you're using - he failed with them as a manager and got sacked, yet got a goodbye banner the next match, unlike the other managers on their carousel.

The rest of your post is very catty, but my reading comprehension is fine - it was mainly that your points boiled down to silly nonsense comparisons with LvG and Mou, neither of whom had the connection to the club that Ole has. It's really not difficult to figure out why Ole is getting a tribute that Mou didn't. Both were sacked, but the similarities end there. One is a club legend who means a great deal to the fans, and treated the club with respect. The other threw everyone under the bus from day one, consistently talked down about the club, and created the most toxic atmosphere I've ever seen at the club.

I doubt you agree, but I'd take Ole's reign (consistency backing up a top 4 finish, progression up until this season) over Mou's reign (couple of second rate trophies by throwing away the league and generally being poisonous) every time.

As for 'regular fans', these are the fans that some of the plastics in this thread are claiming support Ole over United, even though they're the ones who actually make the sacrifices required to attend matches regularly. You can slate their actions as much as you like (your own words), and claim to have the emotional connection they do, but actions speak louder than words - they invest the time, money, effort, and energy required to attend matches.
 
MalaysianRed7 said:
All I’m saying is, we pay tribute to his achievements as a legendary Man United player all the time, and rightly so. He put the ball in the Germans’ net in 1999, no one can ever take that away from him. However, he was an utter failure as a manager aside from a good 3 month spell, and finished off as one of the most derided managers in PL history, not helped by an even bigger failure at Cardiff in 2014.

By putting this banner out and paying tribute to the man after his sacking shows how far we’ve fallen. It’s nothing to do with his playing career, it’s just us sympathising with his sacking. In that case, where’s Mourinho’s gold statue? How about the LvG stand? Even Fergie didn’t get this. He was tactically rubbish, and lost a large portion of our dressing room by the end.

Also, before anyone says anything, of course I have no right to slate the actions of our match going fans. I’ve only been to OT once as a result of alternating between living in Malaysia and Oxford, while they’ve been hundreds of times. Heck, one of my life goals is to become an OT season ticket holder and be with them in the Stretford End. However, I am entitled to my opinion, and I think it is patently ridiculous. We ought to stop rewarding failure, and soon.
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On your one visit to Old Trafford did you notice the Alex Ferguson Statue outside the East stand, the entire north stand that is named after him or the massive tribute banner in that stand?
 
Wonder how many questioning whether or not Soslkjaer is a club legend came to this realisation before or after the last 18-24 months. Doubt many thought about it before 2019.
 
Idxomer said:
It's not a reason not to sack someone either if you don't believe they have the ability to take the next step and that's the problem many have with the board, they couldn't see something so obvious.

There were 3 instances after the bad start of last season that made it clear -to anyone who still had doubts- that Ole is not good enough.

1. The capitulation in the CL group.
2. Not capitalizing on the chance to challenge for the league, we lost 13 points in 5 weeks after going top in January. People will say no one expected us to challenge but taking advantage of those opportunities is the mark of a good manager.
3. The way Ole managed the EL final from playing an unfit Rashford to not using his subs and generally our bland tactics on the night.
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Isnt hindsight wonderful. He always had done enough he earned the opportunity to see how far he could take this team this season, he failed and he's been sacked.

Do we really need the i told you so's? Hes gone and we are moving into a new era there is only one way to look and that is forward not much point looking back at past mistakes.
 
RoyKeaneInTurin said:
I can recount some of the moments you might have missed.

1. FA cup winner vs Liverpool, 1999
2. Running back and hacking the opposition player who was through on goal to get himself sent off to save a point for the team.
3. 2006-07 he scored 11 goals and provided 6 assists. We won every game where he scored. Alan Smith, Saha were constantly injured and without him we wouldn't have broken a 4 year long title drought, longest under Fergie.
4. His exploits in the league in 97-00. We usually won when he scored.

I don't like Ole the manager. I would have sacked him 7 times in the past 3 years. But Ole is a club legend not cuz of that one goal but cuz he stuck with us even when he didn't get game time. His relationship with the fans was infectious and he was loved even before he scored that goal vs Bayern. He is as much of a Manc as Neville was. Let's not pretend otherwise.

Either talk in facts, or shut up. Don't get caught lying on social media.
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Are we now allowing teenagers to post on here @mods?
 
Longshanks said:
Isnt hindsight wonderful. He always had done enough he earned the opportunity to see how far he could take this team this season, he failed and he's been sacked.

Do we really need the i told you so's? Hes gone and we are moving into a new era there is only one way to look and that is forward not much point looking back at past mistakes.
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That I agree with you and that is why I doubt why we need to have this tribute to him now? At the first home game after he was sacked.
 
Eyepopper said:
I mean there are loads of players who won 6 league titles with the same club who are not considered legends, I just can't think of their names right now.
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Is Phil Neville considered a legend? He won six league titles and some cups.

And yes, Ole was a magnificent player for the club. Crap manager but fantastic player. Shame the injuries ruined his transition to a regular right wing/inside forward type in 2003/04.
 
The Hilton said:
:lol::lol::lol:

Great argument. Do you disagree he's a club legend?



This is unmitigated nonsense. Nobody thought getting rid of Ole this season was the wrong decision, we're just sad that it didn't work out for a club legend.

The idea that match going fans holding a banner to pay tribute to said club legend makes them fans of Ole over United, while you're watching the match from your sofa, is absurd. It's almost like a reverse top red, but without any of the actual effort or investment.
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Unmitigated? Fans clamoured for contract renewals when he was out coached in the Sevilla semi. Fans then brushed under the carpet the rather damning cup losses last season. What is unmitigated are the section of fans that continued to ignore results because he once played for us. It’s all well & good coming round to your senses when the wheels truly came off but a vocal number of this forum chastised anyone that dared question OgS up until about 2 months ago when the writing had long been on the cards.

It’s obvious you took offence to the ‘wow’ comment but it’d be nice if you could set aside emotion before hammering away at the keyboard next time. I’ve discussed his ‘legendary’ status elsewhere in the thread.

When did I say anything about matchgoing fans? You’re doing that typical Top Red thing of arguing over something that didn’t occur. My employer has a box at the ground & a good mate has season tickets, I’ve got decent access to a fair few matches but are you saying I need to go to the game tomorrow to validate my opinion [& others in this thread] that he was a ‘fan favourite’ rather than a legend? I’d call that Top Red nonsense. I’ve invested time & money into this club, by no means the most of any fan but you’re a cretin if you think only 76000 opinions matter.

I didn’t say fans paying tribute at tomorrow’s game means they’re putting Ole above the club, so get back in your soap box instead of jumping on it.
 
red4ever 79 said:
Sorry I of course meant pubescent teenagers.
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Puberty almost always occurs before a person hits their teenage years mate.

Regardless I agree there definitely is a lot of whiny children in this thread spouting bitter nonsense.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
Unmitigated? Fans clamoured for contract renewals when he was out coached in the Sevilla semi. Fans then brushed under the carpet the rather damning cup losses last season. What is unmitigated are the section of fans that continued to ignore results because he once played for us. It’s all well & good coming round to your senses when the wheels truly came off but a vocal number of this forum chastised anyone that dared question OgS up until about 2 months ago when the writing had long been on the cards.

It’s obvious you took offence to the ‘wow’ comment but it’d be nice if you could set aside emotion before hammering away at the keyboard next time. I’ve discussed his ‘legendary’ status elsewhere in the thread.

When did I say anything about matchgoing fans? You’re doing that typical Top Red thing of arguing over something that didn’t occur. My employer has a box at the ground & a good mate has season tickets, I’ve got decent access to a fair few matches but are you saying I need to go to the game tomorrow to validate my opinion [& others in this thread] that he was a ‘fan favourite’ rather than a legend? I’d call that Top Red nonsense. I’ve invested time & money into this club, by no means the most of any fan but you’re a cretin if you think only 76000 opinions matter.

I didn’t say fans paying tribute at tomorrow’s game means they’re putting Ole above the club, so get back in your soap box instead of jumping on it.
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I didn't take offence to the "wow" comment, I simply laughed and pointed out that it's childish and offers nothing to the discussion.

Anyway, let's try to take the pettiness out of this and get back to the key point of the debate - I'm not interested in debating whether or not Ole was good or bad before this season, as we'll never agree on that.

With regards to match-going fans, you quoted me and another poster disagreeing over whether fans holding a banner for Ole were "Ole fans over United fans". You quoted a post saying "They have a deeper attachment to a club legend than the club itself." and you agreed with that statement. That statement is clearly nonsense, given that those fans will be at the match rather than hanging out with Ole.

Perhaps you misunderstood the point that the poster you quoted was making?
 
b82REZ said:
Aren't all teenagers pubescent? Not many people going through puberty in their 20s.

Also what was teenagery about what they said?
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Yeah the irony is that the teenager comment is far more childish than the post quoted.
 
People seem to have a hard time separating Ole the player from Ole the manager. As a player he was a cult hero, a legend. As a manager he treaded water for 3 years.
 
I don't rate Ole as a legend, he was a fan favourite without a doubt but legend is to much in my view.

Legends for me are Sir Bobby Charlton, George Best, Cantona, Ryan Giggs, Scholes, Rooney, Keane, Rio, Schmeichel...

I don't rate Ole at that level to be honest.
 
SAFMUTD said:
I don't rate Ole as a legend, he was a fan favourite without a doubt but legend is to much in my view.

Legends for me are Sir Bobby Charlton, George Best, Cantona, Ryan Giggs, Scholes, Rooney, Keane, Rio, Schmeichel...

I don't rate Ole at that level to be honest.
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The club has won three champions league titles and he scored the winner in one of those. Forlan and Chicharito are fan favorites. Ole with more than a 100 goals for the club is safely a legend.
 
The good:
  • Consecutive top 4 finishes (failed by David Moyes, Jose Mourinho and Louis Van Gaal)
  • Top 4 finishes where the goakeeper didn't finish as our player of the year
  • Memorable signings such as Ronaldo, Bruno Fernandes, Cavani unlike the forgettable, deadwood players from Louis Van Gaal's era
  • Generally far more aesthetically pleasing football than Mourinho or Van Gaal (I am always shocked when I see people arguing otherwise)
  • The return of multiple players capbale of scoring 10 or more league goals in a season (yep, it really was that bad under Mourinho and Van Gaal!!)

The bad:

Failure to win a trophy - even Mourinho and Van Gaal acomplished this (negated by dross football and/or pretty meaningless trophies in my opinion)

An absolutely shambolic season this year.
 
killerboi2 said:
Generally far more aesthetically pleasing football than Mourinho or Van Gaal (I am always shocked when I see people arguing otherwise)
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Probably because it's not true.

We played better football in Jose's first 18 months than we did for any extended period under Ole.
 
killerboi2 said:
The good:

  • Consecutive top 4 finishes (failed by David Moyes, Jose Mourinho and Louis Van Gaal)
  • Top 4 finishes where the goakeeper didn't finish as our player of the year
  • Memorable signings such as Ronaldo, Bruno Fernandes, Cavani unlike the forgettable, deadwood players from Louis Van Gaal's era
  • Generally far more aesthetically pleasing football than Mourinho or Van Gaal (I am always shocked when I see people arguing otherwise)
  • The return of multiple players capbale of scoring 10 or more league goals in a season (yep, it really was that bad under Mourinho and Van Gaal!!)

The bad:

Failure to win a trophy - even Mourinho and Van Gaal acomplished this (negated by dross football and/or pretty meaningless trophies in my opinion)

An absolutely shambolic season this year.
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This. Largely agree.

No doubt Ole's time was up though, this season was a massive step backwards and I always maintained that I'd back him so long as there was slow but steady improvement in league position and the squad and until this season there was.

Massive shame those horrible results came in the end for him. People will remember those and pretend his entire time here was a disgrace when it wasn't.
 
KingCavani said:
Probably because it's not true.

We played better football in Jose's first 18 months than we did for any extended period under Ole.
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His football was awful even in the season where we finished second in my opinion. I remember just watching dead matches where the players would just lump it up to Lukaku and Ibrahimovic. The guy couldn't even get 2 players to score 10 or more league goals a season. That's how bad it was.
 
Suedesi said:
People seem to have a hard time separating Ole the player from Ole the manager. As a player he was a cult hero, a legend. As a manager he treaded water for 3 years.
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Yeah it's like they're the same person or something.
 
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