Solskjaer's legacy and his future

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Some people here are just balls deep in the Ole hole you cant talk any sense into them.

He’s literally thrown around 2 managers who [despite Jose’s current plight] have won more in their managerial careers than OgS can fathom. I’m all for a discussion on the subject but posters aren’t sticking to the discussion at hand instead throwing around a bunch of whataboutisms. Look at the guy below. . .

I am not the one who is comparing different situations, different timelines and what-not. The facts are very clear. Ole is our best manager in terms of league performance since SAF retired.

When was this your argument? You’re all over the place.

The fact remains we finished 2nd because of quite clear extenuating circumstances & once things righted themselves he couldn’t last till the New Year. ‘in terms of league performance’, why the caveat? Oh yes, because if you don’t add silly stipulations then your house of cards falls down at first appraisal.

Jose finished 2nd with our highest post-SAF points total you fool. They say criticise the post not the poster so your post is an idiot.

 

[Eriku]

By what metric ? Biggest bullshit I have ever read. If it was easy why he won zilch during his 3 years second stint there ? So much for easy right. Why so butthurt then if not because of your nationality ? He's a bad manager end of line. How about his Cardiff stint ? His replacement end up in 11th place and 8th place the next season.

I’m not butthurt, just sick of seeing people throw the Molde thing in there as if his legacy there was ultimately bad, which is absolute hogwash and has been repeated so many times by people who, like I said, have no clue about or interest in Norwegian football or Molde.

Not interested in getting into the rest. Ole’s United collapsed, and he has to take a lot of the blame. I’m done rehashing further details for the umpteenth time when Ole’s been gone for half a year.

 

[georgipep]

He’s literally thrown around 2 managers who [despite Jose’s current plight] have won more in their managerial careers than OgS can fathom. I’m all for a discussion on the subject but posters aren’t sticking to the discussion at hand instead throwing around a bunch of whataboutisms. Look at the guy below. . .

When was this your argument? You’re all over the place.

The fact remains we finished 2nd because of quite clear extenuating circumstances & once things righted themselves he couldn’t last till the New Year. ‘in terms of league performance’, why the caveat? Oh yes, because if you don’t add silly stipulations then your house of cards falls down at first appraisal.

Jose finished 2nd with our highest post-SAF points total you fool. They say criticise the post not the poster so your post is an idiot.

So, under Ole we were second because others were not better. But that wasn't the case under Mou? Yeah, I'm the one with the whataboutisms...

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

So, under Ole we were second because others were not better. But that wasn't the case under Mou? Yeah, I'm the one with the whataboutisms...

So now we’re on about Jose in 17/18 because you still can’t justify OgS’s managerial career here on its own merit. If you’d like to discuss the 17/18 season under Jose we can do that in another thread but don’t make statements like. . .

The facts are very clear. Ole is our best manager in terms of league performance since SAF retired.

Then get upset when you’re factually proven wrong.

This is an OgS thread, it’s telling how you continue to make it about everything but the man in question.

 

[georgipep]

So now we’re on about Jose in 17/18 because you still can’t justify OgS’s managerial career here on its own merit. If you’d like to discuss the 17/18 season under Jose we can do that in another thread but don’t make statements like. . .

Then get upset when you’re factually proven wrong.

This is an OgS thread, it’s telling how you continue to make it about everything but the man in question.

Go see what league finishes we had under Mou and Ole and then talk about who had a better performance

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Go see what league finishes we had under Mou and Ole and then talk about who had a better performance

Jose being bad doesn’t make OgS a success though as they’re not mutually exclusive. Jose failed as Manchester United manager as did OgS. Look at the tenures as a whole, Jose had the best season & won cups that OgS couldn’t. It’s a choice between shit & shitter, but in this case OgS is the latter.

Again, if you want to discuss Jose let’s do so in another thread.

 

[crossy1686]

What's an "easy squad"?

A team of actual footballers and not entitled children

 

[georgipep]

Jose being bad doesn’t make OgS a success though as they’re not mutually exclusive. Jose failed as Manchester United manager as did OgS. Look at the tenures as a whole, Jose had the best season & won cups that OgS couldn’t. It’s a choice between shit & shitter, but in this case OgS is the latter.

Again, if you want to discuss Jose let’s do so in another thread.

You seem hellbent to move the goalposts just because it doesn't suit your agenda.

I said Ole is the most successfulanager since SAF retired and my criteria is as objective as they come: league finishes.

You ignore that. Cool.

 

[stevoc]

The abuse started basically after the end of his first season with us when he couldn't buy a win which I suppose is natural given the level of our performances which then carried on into the following season. We did hit periods of form where even if the performances weren't ideal, the results where.

Some people chose to look at the results, some the performances which is what really split the forum apart. Winning ugly became part of the norm which was used to defend Ole while others couldn't see him taking us to the next level. Who was right/wrong? Both sides felt like they had a case which is why the vitriol will continue until we start to win something again which may be quite a while considering what's been happening at the club since (before) SAF retired and unfortunately Ole has to take his fair share of the blame with his signings, (lack of) style of play and all round miserable atmosphere that's still hanging round the club 5 months after he's gone which a lot of people find hard to defend. Myself included.

Yeah I too suspect the moaning and abuse will continue for months yet.

 

[stevoc]

Was posted in the Rangnick thread, but also relevant to the conversation going on here?




Should Ole have been sacked when we was? Yes, maybe even a little bit sooner.
Did he deserve to start this season even though we lost the EL final on pens, yes imho.

It'll be interesting to see after the summer how many of his signings remain, and how many of the past ones move on. And then see how we kick it on under the new manager (from the summer).

That said, I was a fan of Rangnick as a caretaker when it was clear Ole had to go. But at this point I wonder if we wouldn't have been better off letting him stay the season and then hand it over.

He had to go after that Watford game as he'd clearly lost the players faith. But hypothetically had he stayed on it's hard to imagine we'd have been any worse off than the atrocious form the team has shown since Rangnick took over.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

You seem hellbent to move the goalposts just because it doesn't suit your agenda.

I said Ole is the most successfulanager since SAF retired and my criteria is as objective as they come: league finishes.

You ignore that. Cool.

Give us a fecking break, 3,5 years 400m spent and won feck all. Not a single thing in three years, Successful..

 

[Jackal981]

He’s literally thrown around 2 managers who [despite Jose’s current plight] have won more in their managerial careers than OgS can fathom. I’m all for a discussion on the subject but posters aren’t sticking to the discussion at hand instead throwing around a bunch of whataboutisms. Look at the guy below. . .

When was this your argument? You’re all over the place.

The fact remains we finished 2nd because of quite clear extenuating circumstances & once things righted themselves he couldn’t last till the New Year. ‘in terms of league performance’, why the caveat? Oh yes, because if you don’t add silly stipulations then your house of cards falls down at first appraisal.

Jose finished 2nd with our highest post-SAF points total you fool. They say criticise the post not the poster so your post is an idiot.

Just baffles me how these people can think that a manager that won nothing during his regime, shits the bed in the final, left the squad with expensive deadwoods, let the squad mentality rot is the best manager post SAF

You seem hellbent to move the goalposts just because it doesn't suit your agenda.

I said Ole is the most successfulanager since SAF retired and my criteria is as objective as they come: league finishes.

You ignore that. Cool.

Yay for 2nd place trophy I guess. What a fecking joke. Go suck him more I guess. 3 years 400m down the drain 0 trophy and we need a real reboot now instead of his "cultural reboot bollox".

Everywhere else the barometer for success as a manager is winning trophies. You ignore that. Cool.

 

[georgipep]

Just baffles me how these people can think that a manager that won nothing during his regime, shits the bed in the final, left the squad with expensive deadwoods, let the squad mentality rot is the best manager post SAF


Yay for 2nd place trophy I guess. What a fecking joke. Go suck him more I guess. 3 years 400m down the drain 0 trophy and we need a real reboot now instead of his "cultural reboot bollox".

Everywhere else the barometer for success as a manager is winning trophies. You ignore that. Cool.

I'm sure FSG are regretting not sacking Klopp after his lost finals.

And if you watch football for the trophies, I guess you only watch 5 games all season.

Well, I watch every game. And to me league performance is what matters. And steady progress. Which was evident until this season.

Everybody can make their own mind about what happened this season.

 

[georgipep]

Give us a fecking break, 3,5 years 400m spent and won feck all. Not a single thing in three years, Successful..

Yeah, he should've put himself penalty taker 11. I give you that.

 

[Jackal981]

I'm sure FSG are regretting not sacking Klopp after his lost finals.

And if you watch football for the trophies, I guess you only watch 5 games all season.

Well, I watch every game. And to me league performance is what matters. And steady progress. Which was evident until this season.

Everybody can make their own mind about what happened this season.

Even blind people can saw Klopp's team improvement on pitch performance and style of play. Did Klopp go 3 years with 0 trophy ? How bout your great Ole ? 3 years 0 result 0 style of play 400m down the drain. Maybe you should go support whatever team he managed next if any seeing how much you liked him.

 

[Greck]

One of the biggest mistakes Ole made was not actually playing the style he claimed to be building for. Now that we're trying to push up and attack our defensive balance gets exposed like crazy. We are so damn porous through the middle.

Imo Parking the bus made these issues look more fixable than untenable. It should have been way more urgent than even signing more attackers. I dont know if Ole just couldn't resist the video game signings or he had no clue about functional signings.

 

[TuzlaUnited]

Ole had 2 opurtuinies to win EL with his 300 m squad. He failed both times. One time in semis, second time in finals. Any decent man with some morals would walk away.
If you can not win EL with UTD (twice) maybe you should go and play with legos.
He was so bad, and in my honest opinion I think that we need new squad. Not just first 11.

 

[didz]

One of the biggest mistakes Ole made was not actually playing the style he claimed to be building for. Now that were trying to push up and attack our defensive balance gets exposed like crazy. We are so damn porous through the middle.

Imo Parking the bus made these issues look more fixable than untenable. It should have been way more urgent than even signing more attackers. I dont kiw if Ole just couldn't resist the video game signings or he had no clue about functional signings.

I'm not sure if my view is similar or opposite, but here it is:

Personally I think Ole built one of the best counter attacking teams in world football. Thats no small thing. Yeah, it was one note and yeah it got us into trouble, but it was what he was good at doing. He wasn't tactically inept, just limited.

Then we had that summer gone. I don't know if it was the profile of the players, or the constant media "we can't keep playing like this" narrative, but Ole didn't have the nerve to keep playing the cards he had, and instead tried to convince everyone he was holding something altogether different.

The fact he told us to press Liverpool.. I mean I completely accept that stupidity is a valid appraisal of that decision, but I think it was a combination of naivety, lack of experience and buckling under pressure.

He thought that that summer window made us far better than we actually were. He told the team to do something that no one in the squad was capable of. He tried to win a certain way before this team could take winning at all as granted. I hope he's learnt his lesson and does well somewhere else, because the stick he got over tactics despite some standout tactical wins is very harsh.

Now we have a team of players who might have been able to play the Ole way, only that way stopped existing because Ole himself burnt it up. Everything else that's happened this season is just a series of bomb drops on top of a wreckage he made of his own steady work. Kinda sad that the good that he did got so fecked by the bad.

 

[Sky1981]

I'm not sure if my view is similar or opposite, but here it is:

Personally I think Ole built one of the best counter attacking teams in world football. Thats no small thing. Yeah, it was one note and yeah it got us into trouble, but it was what he was good at doing. He wasn't tactically inept, just limited.

Then we had that summer gone. I don't know if it was the profile of the players, or the constant media "we can't keep playing like this" narrative, but Ole didn't have the nerve to keep playing the cards he had, and instead tried to convince everyone he was holding something altogether different.

The fact he told us to press Liverpool.. I mean I completely accept that stupidity is a valid appraisal of that decision, but I think it was a combination of naivety, lack of experience and buckling under pressure.

He thought that that summer window made us far better than we actually were. He told the team to do something that no one in the squad was capable of. He tried to win a certain way before this team could take winning at all as granted. I hope he's learnt his lesson and does well somewhere else, because the stick he got over tactics despite some standout tactical wins is very harsh.

Now we have a team of players who might have been able to play the Ole way, only that way stopped existing because Ole himself burnt it up. Everything else that's happened this season is just a series of bomb drops on top of a wreckage he made of his own steady work. Kinda sad that the good that he did got so fecked by the bad.

One of the best world football counter attacking team.

Stopped reading at that

 

[R'hllor]

feck one of, the very best imo.

 

[Bobade]

One of the best world football counter attacking team.

Stopped reading at that

More fool you, it was a good post.

 

[AndySmith1990]

I'm sure FSG are regretting not sacking Klopp after his lost finals.

And if you watch football for the trophies, I guess you only watch 5 games all season.

Well, I watch every game. And to me league performance is what matters. And steady progress. Which was evident until this season.

Everybody can make their own mind about what happened this season.

There was no steady progress at all. We were inconsistent and would put in as many bad performances as good ones. We often struggled to win and half the time a penalty got us the points. We were a foundation built on sand which is why it was no surprise to see everything fall apart this season. Some people were so desperate to see an ex player take us back to the top they couldn't (and still can't) see the wood from the trees where Solskjaer is concerned.

 

[VP89]

I'm sure FSG are regretting not sacking Klopp after his lost finals.

And if you watch football for the trophies, I guess you only watch 5 games all season.

Well, I watch every game. And to me league performance is what matters. And steady progress. Which was evident until this season.

Everybody can make their own mind about what happened this season.

No there wasn't. We choked cups for season on season. We kept getting double digits off first. That's not progress. That's getting worse.

 

[EtH]

I'm sure FSG are regretting not sacking Klopp after his lost finals.

And if you watch football for the trophies, I guess you only watch 5 games all season.

Well, I watch every game. And to me league performance is what matters. And steady progress. Which was evident until this season.

Everybody can make their own mind about what happened this season.

Steady progress to what ? We are the most underachieving side in world football and have been cemented as such with Ole signings like AWB and Maguire.

 

[georgipep]

Even blind people can saw Klopp's team improvement on pitch performance and style of play. Did Klopp go 3 years with 0 trophy ? How bout your great Ole ? 3 years 0 result 0 style of play 400m down the drain. Maybe you should go support whatever team he managed next if any seeing how much you liked him.

Go check what did Klopp win in his first 3 seasons with Liverpool

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

You seem hellbent to move the goalposts just because it doesn't suit your agenda.

I said Ole is the most successfulanager since SAF retired and my criteria is as objective as they come: league finishes.

You ignore that. Cool.

You’re one of the most disingenuous posters I’ve come across here & that’s saying something. There are no goalposts to move, you argument was about Pep, then Mourinho, now you’re on about league finishes.

Objectivity doesn’t caveat performances. If the league is all that matters then Jose has had the best post-Fergie league performance.

It’s funny you claim i’m ignoring league performances when you’re ignoring multiple collapses in the latter stages of the Europa League versus teams he had far greater resources than & similar losses in the domestic cups. OgS did worse in the FA Cups than LvG, worse in the League, Europa & League Cup than Jose. There’s no objection to fact.

The only person trying to move the goalposts is the one dismissing key losses & claiming the league is all that matters only to ignore the best post-Fergie league finish. You’re even trying to belittle Klopp now. It’s fan such as yourself that make it clear we deserve the dire situation we’re in, you don’t care about the club just your favourites.

 

[Jackal981]

Go check what did Klopp win in his first 3 seasons with Liverpool

Yeah he brought Liverpool into EL and League Cup final in his first season. His third season UCL final. Ole ?

 

[AndySmith1990]

Go check what did Klopp win in his first 3 seasons with Liverpool

The progress Liverpool showed when Klopp took over was blindingly obvious. They played some excellent football but had a few glaring weaknesses, notably in defence and the keeper. Once he identified players needed to fill those positions they became a complete team. Since then he's worked on strengthening the squad and now they can compete in every competition. That's what you call genuine progress, not the false dawn path of progress that we've seen at United multiple times.

 

[Jackal981]

The progress Liverpool showed when Klopp took over was blindingly obvious. They played some excellent football but had a few glaring weaknesses, notably in defence and the keeper. Once he identified players needed to fill those positions they became a complete team. Since then he's worked on strengthening the squad and now they can compete in every competition. That's what you call genuine progress, not the false dawn path of progress that we've seen at United multiple times.

Imagine the delusion comparing Klopp and Ole tenure . This guy is gobbling Ole ballsack like his life depends on it.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Go check what did Klopp win in his first 3 seasons with Liverpool

Comparing Ole and Klopp a season or 2 ago was ridiculous then and absolutely mind blowing now.

 

[edgecutter]

Just baffles me how these people can think that a manager that won nothing during his regime, shits the bed in the final, left the squad with expensive deadwoods, let the squad mentality rot is the best manager post SAF


Yay for 2nd place trophy I guess. What a fecking joke. Go suck him more I guess. 3 years 400m down the drain 0 trophy and we need a real reboot now instead of his "cultural reboot bollox".

Everywhere else the barometer for success as a manager is winning trophies. You ignore that. Cool.

This, most of us wanted Jose out when we finished second, but because ole did it we should be over the moon.

 

[georgipep]

Yeah he brought Liverpool into EL and League Cup final in his first season. His third season UCL final. Ole ?

I thought your criteria (as per your previous message) was trophies. Ole brought EL final and several semis. All while getting best league finishes of any manager post SAF.

 

[SirReginald]

I thought your criteria (as per your previous message) was trophies. Ole brought EL final and several semis. All while getting best league finishes of any manager post SAF.

Jose Mourinho - 2nd place is just the first place loser
Also Mourinho - Nobody remembers the runners up

 

[Bebestation]

And still people are talking about him

 

[Foxbatt]

I thought your criteria (as per your previous message) was trophies. Ole brought EL final and several semis. All while getting best league finishes of any manager post SAF.

You must be delusional to compare Ole to Klopp. After three years Ole has not qualified to any CL semis either.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

He really needed to win that Europa League Final

I genuinely believe if he had, then we would be 10-15 points better off this season, with Ole still here.

My belief is that the team lost confidence that Ole would take us to the next level after that loss and the manner of it, not playing brave or attacking football, as if Ole played for penalties

 

[Robbie Boy]

Ole and Mourinho were both shite. Jose was slightly less shite.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

He really needed to win that Europa League Final

I genuinely believe if he had, then we would be 10-15 points better off this season, with Ole still here.

My belief is that the team lost confidence that Ole would take us to the next level after that loss and the manner of it, not playing brave or attacking football, as if Ole played for penalties

We certainly weren't playing for penalties in that game. His biggest reason for losing the dressing room was keeping a bloated squad, anticipating COVID related absences and then not rotating enough of them in the playing 11 or with early subs when the team needed a goal. Ralf is still struggling with the lack of squad morale due to that.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Ole and Mourinho were both shite. Jose was slightly less shite.

This./

The fact posters are trying to argue for one over another is exactly why we’re in the mess we’re in. Both failed & had more time than benefited the club yet here we are pitting crap against crap.

 

[Slysi17]

This./

The fact posters are trying to argue for one over another is exactly why we’re in the mess we’re in. Both failed & had more time than benefited the club yet here we are pitting crap against crap.

I honestly think it's best to move on. Ole was a failure. It's time to fully back the new manager. In all honesty all the managers we have hired post Fergie have been failures. Arguing which one was best is pointless.