Solskjaer's legacy and his future

Crashoutcassius said:
i find it wierd that people bump this thread with fresh excuses for ralf. this is all in the context of this thread, which is a thread that is used to say 'damn you olleeeeeee' every time we look bad under ralf.

you can call that 'sticking by ole' if you want. all i am saying is ralf is responsible for the performances 4 months after ole has gone, and that the squad is good enough to be doing better than we are doing. that is all i am saying. find it insane that people are happy to argue that we dont have the players to win games, especially on days when we have looked poor versus the worst sides in the league. i find it wierd in the context of this thread, not in any other context you can make up above about 'sticking by ole', who is gone months haha
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This squad has been capable of doing better for longer than 4 months though. Using Ralfs underwhelming performance as some way of exonerating OgS is weird. Both have done poorly.

OgS put together a poor squad, that said he underperformed with the individuals available. Ralf has taken over that squad & continued to underperform. It’s hard to not look at the position we find ourselves in & not look back at the OgS period as a grad failure.
 
Roboc7 said:
Some thought he’d left a good squad






Probanly put that in the Rangnick thread then, I’m just making point Ole was a disaster who left behind a huge mess, won’t come out very well if argue against that. Rangnick didn’t put this shit show together, he didn’t create this awful culture, Ole did. This is about Ole’s legacy, Rangnick could and should be doing better but make that’s nothing to do with Ole’s legacy.

Like the club you backed the wrong guy, accept it and move on. We going to be shit for a long time, it’s not going to change that Ole failed miserably.
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how did i back ole haha, so wierd
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
This squad has been capable of doing better for longer than 4 months though. Using Ralfs underwhelming performance as some way of exonerating OgS is weird. Both have done poorly.

OgS put together a poor squad, that said he underperformed with the individuals available. Ralf has taken over that squad & continued to underperform. It’s hard to not look at the position we find ourselves in & not look back at the OgS period as a grad failure.
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yes ole had a bad start to season. doesn't mean ralf shouldn't be doing better with the players he has. but instead people come in this thread and say ralf can't do better because of some wierd intangible reason like 'ole didn't coach the players'
 
Crashoutcassius said:
yes ole had a bad start to season. doesn't mean ralf shouldn't be doing better with the players he has. but instead people come in this thread and say ralf can't do better because of some wierd intangible reason like 'ole didn't coach the players'
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Who has said Ralf can’t do better because OgS didn’t coach the players? Genuine question as that would be ludicrous.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
heres a thought experiment - if the squad is so terrible (oles fault) should we bring him back as he obviously did an incredible job with a squad that isn't top 4 worthy? bring him back but give him no say over transfers (as he build such a terrible squad). with better recruitment he should logically do better and might win the league or at least go one step further and win some trophies
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It’s completely logical mate. That is why you are going to be ripped to shreds on the Caf. Too many Ralf fanboys who think he’s the second coming. IMHO, Ole needed to go after the Liverpool disaster. But that doesn’t make the Ralf appointment the right one.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
I just find it strange that people where prepared to stick by Ole through thick and thin even though he was almost sacked 3 or 4 times before he actually lost his job and the same people like to stick the knife into Ralf at any opportunity after a few months and zero money spent. There's absolutely no consistency. I really fear for the next manager, especially if it's Poch if they don't hit the ground running from the get go.
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Gary Neville give us a wave
 
He was there two years too long. He actually did an important job post Jose but how he lasted over three years in the role and was allowed to spend hundreds of millions is still baffling. Ralf is now firefighting all the hangovers from that last couple of years and in all honesty, has no chance. Ralf should be getting top 4 but even that is looking desperate now.
 
It's going to be like pulling teeth for the next few years now. That's his legacy.
 
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VivaRonaldo85 said:
He was there two years too long. He actually did an important job post Jose but how he lasted over three years in the role and was allowed to spend hundreds of millions is still baffling. Ralf is now firefighting all the hangovers from that last couple of years and in all honesty, has no chance. Ralf should be getting top 4 but even that is looking desperate now.
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Agreed. He was a brilliant interim manager but his time as the interim manager was allowed to be over two years.
 
DSG said:
It’s completely logical mate. That is why you are going to be ripped to shreds on the Caf. Too many Ralf fanboys who think he’s the second coming. IMHO, Ole needed to go after the Liverpool disaster. But that doesn’t make the Ralf appointment the right one.
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Ralf fanboys?? FFS

What is so hard to understand that Ralf is here as Interim. You do understand what interim means, right? His expertise is going to be used after his interim period is finished. Why are people comparing a manager who had 3 years, spent a shit load with someone who's a standin? Are people so insecure that anything goes to protect their precious ex manager? He's gone. Get over it.

As this is an Ole legacy thread, let's forget about Ralf and bring the thread back on track. Do you think Ole has left the squad in a much better place than when he found it? Has his 3 years and 400m+ spent got us any closer to winning the title? That's the whole point of this thread. If you want to stick the knife into Ralf well there's a completely other thread for that. Quite a few of them actually.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
Ralf fanboys?? FFS

What is so hard to understand that Ralf is here as Interim. You do understand what interim means, right? His expertise is going to be used after his interim period is finished. Why are people comparing a manager who had 3 years, spent a shit load with someone who's a standin? Are people so insecure that anything goes to protect their precious ex manager? He's gone. Get over it.

As this is an Ole legacy thread, let's forget about Ralf and bring the thread back on track. Do you think Ole has left the squad in a much better place than when he found it? Has his 3 years and 400m+ spent got us any closer to winning the title? That's the whole point of this thread. If you want to stick the knife into Ralf well there's a completely other thread for that. Quite a few of them actually.
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Calm down
 
DSG said:
It’s completely logical mate. That is why you are going to be ripped to shreds on the Caf. Too many Ralf fanboys who think he’s the second coming. IMHO, Ole needed to go after the Liverpool disaster. But that doesn’t make the Ralf appointment the right one.
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This whole fanboy rubbish that is thrown about is what causes so much conflict and petty bickering on here. Have you ever considered that it's possible to criticise someone without automatically being a "fanboy" of someone else? Mature adults who are emotionally stable don't choose a side and then hate the opposite side out of some misguided sense of loyalty. Criticising Solskjaer isn't a declaration of love for Rangnick.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
Ralf fanboys?? FFS

What is so hard to understand that Ralf is here as Interim. You do understand what interim means, right? His expertise is going to be used after his interim period is finished. Why are people comparing a manager who had 3 years, spent a shit load with someone who's a standin? Are people so insecure that anything goes to protect their precious ex manager? He's gone. Get over it.

As this is an Ole legacy thread, let's forget about Ralf and bring the thread back on track. Do you think Ole has left the squad in a much better place than when he found it? Has his 3 years and 400m+ spent got us any closer to winning the title? That's the whole point of this thread. If you want to stick the knife into Ralf well there's a completely other thread for that. Quite a few of them actually.
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Yes. I believe that Ole has compiled a better squad than Jose compiled. The biggest issues are Maguire and AWB. If you go back through the Maguire and AWB threads in previous seasons, there was a lot of positivity around those two. The form this season has been abysmal. I don’t think we can pin DvB and Telles on him, as those were pandemic discounts.

Question for you. What do you think the interim’s goals are? In my mind, the interim is absolutely required to hit top 4, otherwise, why make the change? It’s an 80m pound question, as clearly, Ole could’ve avoided relegation and we’d be mid table. But the reason you brought in the interim was to secure top 4. It’s a publicly listed corporation, and the shareholders should demand we manage to maximize profits. As such, clearly it seems the appointment of Ralf looks to be a mistake. We are 5th and Arsenal has 3 matches in hand.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
This whole fanboy rubbish that is thrown about is what causes so much conflict and petty bickering on here. Have you ever considered that it's possible to criticise someone without automatically being a "fanboy" of someone else? Mature adults who are emotionally stable don't choose a side and then hate the opposite side out of some misguided sense of loyalty. Criticising Solskjaer isn't a declaration of love for Rangnick.
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Exactly. So when I criticize Ralf, why is there such a wave of apologists who bring up Ole??? I’m on record as saying BOTH are not good enough…. Just because I criticize Ralf doesn’t mean I think Ole should have stayed.
 
It's quite frankly ridiculous that he got so much power despite being so unqualified. And his signings, deary me!
 
DSG said:
Yes. I believe that Ole has compiled a better squad than Jose compiled. The biggest issues are Maguire and AWB. If you go back through the Maguire and AWB threads in previous seasons, there was a lot of positivity around those two. The form this season has been abysmal. I don’t think we can pin DvB and Telles on him, as those were pandemic discounts.

Question for you. What do you think the interim’s goals are? In my mind, the interim is absolutely required to hit top 4, otherwise, why make the change? It’s an 80m pound question, as clearly, Ole could’ve avoided relegation and we’d be mid table. But the reason you brought in the interim was to secure top 4. It’s a publicly listed corporation, and the shareholders should demand we manage to maximize profits. As such, clearly it seems the appointment of Ralf looks to be a mistake. We are 5th and Arsenal has 3 matches in hand.
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My own personal thoughts are hiring Ralf as interim had its complications. As a consultant to the DOF I don't think we could of done any better and he was the man a lot of people mentioned in previous threads when rumours first started appearing that we were looking to hire a DOF.

If the club wanted Ralf that badly and Ralf was willing but only under the condition that he'd come in as interim until the end of the season then I believe it was the right move by the club even if we finish outside the top 4.

I don't think Ralf is the man to take us to the top as a manager and have never suggested otherwise but I do believe he could be fundamental in helping build something the club are so obviously lacking which is why I have no problem him finishing out the season.

Let's face it. None of our (the clubs) favourites where available before we went looking for an interim so my attitude is Ralf had as much chance as any and if we miss out on top 4 but Ralf has a part of making us a force again then the risk was worth it. Another plus in hiring him as interim is he now has first hand experience with the squad which could go a long way in helping decide incoming/outgoing players which takes a bit of the pressure off of the new incoming manager whoever it may be.
 
killerboi2 said:
People still blaming Ole 4 months after he's gone, no surprises there. It's Arsenal Fan TV at this stage... Mourinho was instantly forgotten about (thank god) after he left.
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That's not what I remember. Instead we had to listen to people telling us how bad a state he had left us in and how Solskjaer was doing such a great job in changing things.
 
Stringer said:
That's not what I remember. Instead we had to listen to people telling us how bad a state he had left us in and how Solskjaer was doing such a great job in changing things.
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Solskjaer did a decent job of lifting the black cloud that had descended upon the club during the latter part of Mourinho's tenure. He made United a happier place. This was achieved in the space of about four months.

Everything he did after that, especially the coaching and the player recruitment, was at best a waste of time, and at worst, a borderline disaster from which the club will be slow to recover.
 
Infra-red said:
Solskjaer did a decent job of lifting the black cloud that had descended upon the club during the latter part of Mourinho's tenure. He made United a happier place. This was achieved in the space of about four months.

Everything he did after that, especially the coaching and the recruitment, was at best a waste of time, and at worst, a borderline disaster from which the club will be slow to recover.
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Agree with that. Don't mean to suggest that it didn't end badly with Mourinho but it was nowhere near the extent that Solskjaer deserved years to fix it.

I remain baffled by how hastily he was appointed on a permanent basis. If Woodward was actually competent and waited, he would have witnessed the awful performances towards the end of that season and Solskjaer would have been let go. Instead we wasted all that time and money with a sub-par manager.
 
The players he left behind are working really, really hard to keep Ole's name in tact. At this point we know that either both Ragnnick and Ole stink equally or players simple stink.

Also, I will add that the same cloud Mourinho brought and Ole lifter, Ronaldo brought it back.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
My own personal thoughts are hiring Ralf as interim had its complications. As a consultant to the DOF I don't think we could of done any better and he was the man a lot of people mentioned in previous threads when rumours first started appearing that we were looking to hire a DOF.

If the club wanted Ralf that badly and Ralf was willing but only under the condition that he'd come in as interim until the end of the season then I believe it was the right move by the club even if we finish outside the top 4.

I don't think Ralf is the man to take us to the top as a manager and have never suggested otherwise but I do believe he could be fundamental in helping build something the club are so obviously lacking which is why I have no problem him finishing out the season.

Let's face it. None of our (the clubs) favourites where available before we went looking for an interim so my attitude is Ralf had as much chance as any and if we miss out on top 4 but Ralf has a part of making us a force again then the risk was worth it. Another plus in hiring him as interim is he now has first hand experience with the squad which could go a long way in helping decide incoming/outgoing players which takes a bit of the pressure off of the new incoming manager whoever it may be.
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Ralf has said himself that top 4 is paramount. I believe that finishing outside the top 4, even Ralf considers that a failure.

while I respect his tactical influence, there is very little evidence that a 63 year old who has literally won 1 major trophy in 19 years of management is goi g to be the driving force or architect of a new United squad that will challengefor the league or CL.

which brings me to my final point. The leadership that brought us Moyes, LvG, Jose and Ole, and no PL titles or CL titles since SAF, why are we just willing to believe that they’ve done the right thing in bringing in Ralf?

A lot of the Caf are just willing to open their mouths and be spoonfed this shite of a turnaround. I don’t see it.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
"He is building team for next manager and will leave us at better place than other managers did".
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Another one. "Ole loves the club so much he will resign." If the man isnt fired he would stir us into relegation zone now
Kaos said:
Finishing 2nd in a season where our rivals were shite or ridden with injuries. Apparently that’s progress.

The state of this uncoached, overrated, overpriced, unbothered squad is down to him, and it’ll take years to undo the damage he’s done. We should have sacked him after that battering vs Cardiff in the last game of the season.
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Fixed that for you.
 
matsdf said:
Hope you Ole outers are happy today. This day is yours.
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Of course. If he was still here we would be fighting for relegation. This is the team that he build for 3 years. A bunch of ragtag overpaid players they are. The british revolution and rebuild are truly success right ?
 
city-puma said:
People just simply have really short memories and talked so much shit about Ole. The squad Ole left is not a mess if CR7 was not added. Ralf is simply not good at all for short term fix. He probably will do a lot better for long term. But, he won’t be the one in the summer apparently.
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Ah I forgot we just won a treble before CR7 came right ? This is another shite Ole inners spout the whole time too. CR7 cause the problem :lol: . He is a part of it not the cause of it. Does he make AWB and Maguire defend and play like donkeys on the pitch ? We won jack shit before CR7 came back. Today we also got pumped with most of Ole XI without CR7.
 
Ole's Englishmen prority clearly paid of
city-puma said:
People just simply have really short memories and talked so much shit about Ole. The squad Ole left is not a mess if CR7 was not added. Ralf is simply not good at all for short term fix. He probably will do a lot better for long term. But, he won’t be the one in the summer apparently.
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the stat last season showed we overperformed.
This is their level
 
Ole in vs ole out, still a thing on the Caf I assume? Two universal truths: ole was out of his depth as our manager but he’s also not to be blamed for “all” our faults.
 
Ish said:
Ole in vs ole out, still a thing on the Caf I assume? Two universal truths: ole was out of his depth as our manager but he’s also not to be blamed for “all” our faults.
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Tbf when almost all of his signed players turned into shite we cant absolve him of any blame. He played a part in our demise now. Money that can be used to sign better players and a CDM to boot
 
Andrew7582 said:
We played park the bus and counter football in the big games spamming long balls up to james and rashford, which stopped working as soon as the big teams cottoned onto it and adjusted.
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Performance wise, we have improved compared to what we were doing under Ole, and I still like RR and back him. But, despite the kind fixture list, Rangnick has gotten 26 points from 14 games, compared to 21 points from 14 games earlier. 5 points more despite us having played 1 top 6 club is poor no matter how you put it.
 
Anustart89 said:
Did I say that Ole decided the cost of the players, because it's the second time you've attempted to attribute that to me? Maguire's £80m price tag and AWB's £50m price tag were all over the media before they had been signed, just like Sancho's €120m price tag last summer was known for a long while.

Surely the manager has some sort of idea as to whether the club he's managing can spend £50m, £100m or £150m in a transfer window though, don't you think? Or do you think that the board keeps the manager completely in the dark as to what the transfer budget is? And given those constraints, don't you think it's the manager's job (if he, as he says, has the final say on ins and outs) to decide if he wants two players for £130m or if he wants six players for the same amount of money?
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Well, you're essentially blaming him for spending £80m on Maguire and £50m on AWB as if he negotiated the deals himself. Hence why you keep bringing it up. By all accounts, after the LVG and Mourinho sagas, the club decided on a more democratic approach to transfers which took power away from the manager. This is how things were done with Ole in charge, it's how things are done with Ralf in charge, and it's how things will be done with the next poor soul who takes over.
 
I more and more realise Ole actually got out the potential of the squad and did a good job before this season. The squad wasn’t better, and it becomes more and more evident theses days. But we were still able to beat any team (good record against top-teams), and an impressive away record. To talk about 2y of luck is just stupid and agenda based shit talk.

All the other things people criticise him for (poor planning, poor recruitment, poor decision making) was actually above his decision level. It’s the board’s and directors responsibility. We can’t blame the manager for a dysfunctional system.

I agree we lacked a good plan in our possession play, but possession play also depends a lot on individual quality, which was pretty absent speaking about McFred.

On the other hand we played more on our strengths and other individual qualities, which I think was a positive thing. The team and players at least believed in them self and was enthusiastic. We shouldn’t underestimate the importance of these factors.
 
Zen86 said:
Well, you're essentially blaming him for spending £80m on Maguire and £50m on AWB as if he negotiated the deals himself. Hence why you keep bringing it up. By all accounts, after the LVG and Mourinho sagas, the club decided on a more democratic approach to transfers which took power away from the manager. This is how things were done with Ole in charge, it's how things are done with Ralf in charge, and it's how things will be done with the next poor soul who takes over.
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Ole is largely behind Maguire. Woodward refused to get Jose Maguire at 60m because he felt he wasn't worth it. He didn't just change his mind, someone told him to get him and it was the same person(s) that made him the captain and was also set on constructing his team around a British core. After what had happened previously you can't say Ole wasn't aware we would have to pay more than 60m plus to get him. When the signing looked good everyone was praising Ole for his transfer market prowess.
 
So when LVG and Jose got signings, they were the "board" signings, such as Zlatan, Alexis, Martial but when Ole signings haven't worked out, all of a sudden he signed them, he decided to pay the money, he decided the wages.
 
Ole's big mistake, which is the big mistake Mourinho and Moyes made, is what Rangnick talks about all the time. Namely not sticking to a single approach.

At the beginning it looked like Ole wanted a super physical, tough and athletic team. A '94 regen.

I think you need more than that but at one stage it was looking pretty good.

But once that's the chosen path you have to go all in. You can't 18 months in be compromising your methods by signing or keeping players who are the polar opposite to the overall image of the team.

If you want a physically dominant team you can't have De Gea, Lindelof, Mata, Telles, this version of Ronaldo and Martial.

Instead you end up with this mixed bag of nothing and this is what every manager since Fergie has done.

Every manager will make a mistake and sign a player that's at odds with the other players. Guardiola did it with Mendy, Fergie with Berbatov. It happens.

But our managers are prolific at it and I just hope the next guy picks a way of playing, a type of player and 100% sticks to it.

Don't and he'll end up like Ole did.
 
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